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blankseplocked TECH MOONS - Makes me angry!
 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:09:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Abon
Why moon goo is not dynamic is still beyond me.. ugh

Because it would seriously frak up the entire T2 production chain.
It's already a pain in the posterior to maintain a reaction POS on moons with less-than-valuable moonmins, it would be a whole different level of SNAFU to be forced to relocate it on a periodic basis.
The question you should be asking is why aren't moon minerals BALANCED from a rarity perspective with the demand for them, or better still, why is there no way to boost max obtainable moon mins above the maximum current hard cap (in particular for those materials that are in extremely high demand).

The "solution" could come in literally dozens of forms... from one extreme of simply seeding more high-rarity materials on new moons on a regular basis (w-space would be one of the best candidates since they're all blank), to the middle of making it possible for player ships to extract additional moon minerals from some moons (not necessarily those that have the materials extractable via anchored harvesters), right to the other extreme of making it possible to obtain moon minerals (or intermediate materials, or advanced materials, or why the heck not, even T2 components) from other sources which DO NOT involve moons at all (like, say, new exploration content).

wh hunter kellar
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:11:00 - [32]
 

Money talks and *******s flies!!!!
Until all the non- NC alliances put aside their differences and unite, you will not be able to overthrown the mighty Northern Coalition.
If they do, they can divide the moons equally and then they can make trillions of isk and afford for their pilots to waste their supercaps like it was just a frigate. Laughing Razz
Arise Mighty Northern Coalition!!!!!
Take your place among the GODS!!!!!! Razz YARRRR!!

Onkadis
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:11:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: MeBiatch
Originally by: Onkadis
They're supposed. So get angry enough to make an alliance, get that alliance into an alliance block and go invade the Northern Coalition.

CCP kinda figured that tech moons weren't doing enough to get people to do that, so they're trying something else to destabilize 0.0 space by destabilizing the coalition blocks.

When that doesn't work they'll try something else.

In the meantime, continue to get ****ed about tech moons and start planning your invasion.




To invade the NC one would need the same income as them otherwise they wont have the gear to kill of the NC...

furthermore correct me if i am wrong but the NC was there before Dominion... So how is nerfing annoms going to change anything?

IMO both true sec and moons should be Dynamic!



You understand that I agree with you, right?

My point is you need to tailor your argument to the Dev's perspective on it. Coming into the forums with your righteous forum rage and forum math won't change it.

The problem is the power blocks are huge and the barriers for upstarts to kit up and take them on in space violence are also huge.

Back in the day the concern about BoB was they and their allies and pets would hold all the good space and "it would be just like the Chinese server".

They were right. It just doesn't happen to be BoB and their pets that hold all the good space.

CCP seems lost on 0.0 issues. Does the new CSM have the ability to get CCP to understand 0.0 issues from a full, long-term? Or does the fact that they come from these power blocks mean that they are going to colour things in such a way that fits their own interests.

Being mad about Tech moons doesn't get you anywhere. Understanding why you're mad, why CCP put them there, and how you can convince CCP to start to make it possible for upstarts to make the transition from low-sec and high-sec space to being a null sec space holder is what we're really talking about.

Dynamic moon goo is probably the best suggestion I've heard so far.

Rinisa
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:11:00 - [34]
 


Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:13:00 - [35]
 

Sounds to me like moons in wormholes need to become mine-able.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:14:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 06/04/2011 19:15:35
Originally by: Rinisa
People should wear this to the next fanfest:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7859/tshirti.png
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii131/acdalad/b24dd0a0.jpg

I LOL'd.
By the way, it's not like all the current whiners didn't get a warning about it in the winter of 2009 or thereabouts...
...if it took "you guys" more than one year to realize what's going on AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, well, who's to blame ?
Twisted Evil

Rebnott Valeri
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:16:00 - [37]
 

I think the tech moons are distributed fair and the price should go up to 200.000 ISK/U.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:18:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Rebnott Valeri
I think the tech moons are distributed fair and the price should go up to 200.000 ISK/U.

Don't worry, if CCP doesn't change anything, even 240k/unit is not that difficult to get to in another year or so.
Twisted Evil

Onkadis
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:19:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Abon
Why moon goo is not dynamic is still beyond me.. ugh


The question you should be asking is why aren't moon minerals BALANCED from a rarity perspective with the demand for them, or better still, why is there no way to boost max obtainable moon mins above the maximum current hard cap (in particular for those materials that are in extremely high demand).



For the same reason moon goo is the only resource that has an absolute cap on availability I would suspect: to make it something worth fighting over, worth invading over.

That hasn't worked.

But I don't worry about what dynamic moon goo would do (I enjoyed writing that sentence as much as I hope you've enjoyed reading it). I've run large chunks of T2 production chains. It would mess them up from a corp or alliance perspective, but it would increase the number of small low sec moon goo processor corps (even if they're alt corps of T2 Alliance operations) and curtail some of the vertical monopolies. The change would be dramatic for those who have to face it for a few weeks, prices would spike, but conditions would return to normal fast and there will be opportunities for new entrants into the T2 value chain in the process.

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:19:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Merrik Talorra
Right, because the current coalitions woke up one day to find everything just as they wanted it. No diplomacy, no effort, and all the systems they desired. The NAP list was forged in their sleep and the tech POS's onlined themselves.

In the threads about the anomaly nerfs, people say "HTFU and fight over it." They laugh at all the "nullbears" losing sanctums, but turn around and want moons nerfed. Ha!

The same applies to the moons. HTFU and fight over it. It's no secret where they are. If you want them, stop whining and come and take them. Get over yourselves, get some friends together and bring the fight.


Lots of players have worked to build what is out here. Work to come take it, if you want it so badly.


Right i forgot there was a giant coalition that had fully colonized the Northern Regions when RMR came out and the NC without RMT had enough isk pulled together to mount an invasionRolling Eyes
thats right they are called Guritas right?Laughing

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:25:00 - [41]
 

The funny thing?

CCP nerfed dysprosium because a few large alliances were able to get a monopoly (namely BOB) on it and drove the prices up. CCP said that this was not good for the game and unfair.

So CCP reworked the high end moon goo.

Now we have technetium MUCH worse unbalanced than dysprosium ever was, technetium is (contrary to dysprosium) only available in few regions. Plus there is no alchemy reaction for tech-based moon products.

CCP now says that this is good for the game since it causes regions to be more valuable than others and fuels conflicts.

Pretty funny...

But I don't mind tech getting even more expensive, I have a good enough heap of it and earn a fortune with the speculation and prices going up and up and upVery Happy

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:49:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
The funny thing?

The FUNNIEST thing is that we told them that exactly this would happen, and we did it more than a year ago Twisted Evil

ChYph3r
Multiplex Gaming
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:52:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: CommmanderInChief
Edited by: CommmanderInChief on 06/04/2011 18:41:05
Edited by: CommmanderInChief on 06/04/2011 18:28:23
I posted this elsewhere, but felt it needed its own special attention! especially after the patch.

lets do the maths

2400 units per day * 30 days per month (avg) = 72000

72000 x 100,000 tech per unit! ( its actually more, im just using a nice roundnumber of 100K its around that in Jita) = 7.2 BILLION PER MONTH off one moon!!!

so Venal - 70 tech moons = 500 billion ISK per month!! for NC!! just in Venal

are you fecking kidding me! this crap ^^ makes me soooo angry! and CCP nerf anoms to help balance it out...what a joke

FOR DOING NOTHING BUT MAINTAIN A POS! Arghhhhh!


jealousy and butthurt - u haz it

Valator Uel
Caldari
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:17:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Akita T

The "solution" could come in literally dozens of forms... from one extreme of simply seeding more high-rarity materials on new moons on a regular basis (w-space would be one of the best candidates since they're all blank), to the middle of making it possible for player ships to extract additional moon minerals from some moons (not necessarily those that have the materials extractable via anchored harvesters), right to the other extreme of making it possible to obtain moon minerals (or intermediate materials, or advanced materials, or why the heck not, even T2 components) from other sources which DO NOT involve moons at all (like, say, new exploration content).



Wasn't Alchemy specifically introduced for this very reason? Expanding it to allow tech to be created will help imo, although at the cost of some lesser moon mats becoming more expensive. Basically, alchemy should be doing to moon mats what invention did to T2 BPO monopolies.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:19:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 06/04/2011 20:20:28
Originally by: Valator Uel
Wasn't Alchemy specifically introduced for this very reason? Expanding it to allow tech to be created will help imo, although at the cost of some lesser moon mats becoming more expensive. Basically, alchemy should be doing to moon mats what invention did to T2 BPO monopolies.

That's one of the many possible solutions too.
But it would need to become more efficient than it is now given the current POS fuel prices if you wish to get a noticeable drop in tech price.
And then, you'd probably get the problem of platinum moons becoming too valuable LaughingLaughingLaughing

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:23:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 06/04/2011 20:20:28
Originally by: Valator Uel
Wasn't Alchemy specifically introduced for this very reason? Expanding it to allow tech to be created will help imo, although at the cost of some lesser moon mats becoming more expensive. Basically, alchemy should be doing to moon mats what invention did to T2 BPO monopolies.

That's one of the many possible solutions too.
But it would need to become more efficient than it is now given the current POS fuel prices if you wish to get a noticeable drop in tech price.
And then, you'd probably get the problem of platinum moons becoming too valuable LaughingLaughingLaughing


which is the reason imo moon goo should be dynamic...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:29:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: MeBiatch
which is the reason imo moon goo should be dynamic

So you really want to kill all "in-place" moon reactions (even the partial ones) and make them all be 100% imported goods ?

Vito Antonio
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:34:00 - [48]
 

lets nerf lvl4 highsec missions some more

MeBiatch
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:41:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: MeBiatch on 06/04/2011 20:42:29
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: MeBiatch
which is the reason imo moon goo should be dynamic

So you really want to kill all "in-place" moon reactions (even the partial ones) and make them all be 100% imported goods ?


kinda...
i think you should have to survey the moon and it should show deposit pockets that you can mine... but each pocket only has a finite amount of that type of goo...
Once that deposit is gone you then would have to re-scan the moon and pick a different type of goo to mine...

yes it would cause havoc to tech II production but not much more then when CCP found out about the moon scam years ago... eve would adapt and move on...

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:49:00 - [50]
 

Yep.. this is CCP's biggest challenge in my opinion. How do you make something so valuable that people will fight over it, without making it so valuable that the current owners can't brush away attacks like an elephant shishing its tail at flies?

I think the tech moons make it pretty clear that few, highly valuable resources, are never going to be able to break up the current super coalitions.

People don't gang up and go after a few trillion worth of tech moons, but CCP expects them to go to war over sanctums?

Valator Uel
Caldari
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:54:00 - [51]
 

If you want to make it dynamic you will have to move away from simply setting up a POS and anchoring a mining array (which can take a couple of hours). You'll then need to create a new mechanic for gathering moon materials. All this while we already have a mechanic that just needs proper iteration : alchemy. If any moon material can be made via alchemy in a balanced way then we will have prices stabilize, or in other terms where the supply is dynamic to market prices.


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