open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Reimbursement Policy update revisited
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.06 10:11:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Knug LiDi
Why, oh why, is CCP compensating players for screwing things up themselves? I have accidentally recycled meta 4 loot before, and I'm sure I will do so again. Why would I even ask CCP for compensation for the game doing exactly and precisely what I asked it to do?

In a "harsh and hyper capitalistic universe" would I go crying to the gods to have my toys back, when I stupidly put them in the shredder?



So, if you don't want your stuff to be reimbursed, don't ask / don't petition. Simple, no? You're crying to the gods that nobody else should be able to recover stuff... come on, let's be nice to the stupid people, they need more help than you do, Einstein.

Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:00:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Garia666 on 06/04/2011 12:00:17
CCP customer support has been broke since 03.

this is just making things more clear so they have a less harder time exlpaining why you dont get a reimburishment and why they can never see anything in there logs.

Lets hope that with these new guidelines the time for CCP to react on your petition will encrease.


xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:15:00 - [33]
 

Quote:
Posted by: biggie fluffy on 11/03/2011 17:33:00

I have to say I find may of your policy and M pretty horrible to deal with. It is clearly the most negative aspect of the game ( that is: interacting with GM when required).

99.999% of the the responses I have received from GM's indicate they either do not understand English, or have not bothered to read my request. It seems the GM is only concerned with providing a response, ANY response, and is not concerned with the quality of helping the person understand the issue.

I am currently dealing with an issue where I was buying items in station, but he items where being bought in other places. I found the issue. and sent a message to GM, I then did many other transactions to verify it could not possibly me something I was doing wrong, and then when to HELP CHANNEL to verify with them I was doing it all correct. I then messaged the gm FROM the station I was in , and bought something right then, with the same times stamp so they could verify the issue.

The response I received? "our logs show no errors"

This whole concept of the logs showing errors is faulty to start with! If your smart enough to sort through logs to find errors, why aren't you able to fix the problems generating them?!!!!!!!!

Quite simply - there needs to be a paradigm shift in the thinking of the gm's, and there roll. They need to be problems solvers, not the "blow off department".

I don't think you should EVER send a message to a user that your logs don't show the error they are seeing.-- this only proves that your logging is not effective.



Quote:
Our logs show lots of things. Regrettably, we are not able to log everything as there must be a trade-off where server performance and logging is concerned. Sadly, this means that sometimes we are not able to verify losses as being eligible for reimbursement by way of our server-side logs. Our logging capabilities are constantly improving, however, and with that we have a better chance of being able to render assistance.


Originally by: Jiro Rans

Wow this is exactly what the guy meant, it's as if you didn't read what he was saying. Nice job


Originally by: Jiro Rans

Wow this is exactly what the guy meant, it's as if you didn't read what he was saying. Nice job


Originally by: Jiro Rans

Wow this is exactly what the guy meant, it's as if you didn't read what he was saying. Nice job



More training for CCP staff on basic reading comprehension. Picking out just the handful sentences you notice or understand and replying to them does not constitute a proper reply.

I've lost count of the number of times I need to repeat myself in petitions, because I try to mention more than one point of discussion, and the GM apparently can't take in multiple pieces of information in one message.

Knug LiDi
N00bFleeT
Posted - 2011.04.06 17:17:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
Originally by: Knug LiDi
Why, oh why, is CCP compensating players for screwing things up themselves? I have accidentally recycled meta 4 loot before, and I'm sure I will do so again. Why would I even ask CCP for compensation for the game doing exactly and precisely what I asked it to do?

In a "harsh and hyper capitalistic universe" would I go crying to the gods to have my toys back, when I stupidly put them in the shredder?



So, if you don't want your stuff to be reimbursed, don't ask / don't petition. Simple, no? You're crying to the gods that nobody else should be able to recover stuff... come on, let's be nice to the stupid people, they need more help than you do, Einstein.


Your point is that CCP should spent precious GM labour helping stupid people recover trivial items from their own errors instead of working on legitimate items? I'd like to think that there are more serious issues that GMs SHOULD be working on.

I'm not crying to have such service for me; I'm crying that GMs are being forced (by this policy) to review and potentially resolve issues unnecessarily and thereby NOT being able to solve more worthwhile concerns.

GM time is a critical resource, CCP should not be wasting it. This particular policy statement allows folks to petition on something they should not be able to petition for.

patteSatan
freelancers inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.04.06 18:00:00 - [35]
 

So, instead of fixing the damn game, CCP takes the easiest road out, I wonder how many damn "our logs show nothing" responses you can automate by this?



ceaon
Posted - 2011.04.06 18:23:00 - [36]
 

Quote:
Our logs show lots of things. Regrettably, we are not able to log everything as there must be a trade-off where server performance and logging is concerned. Sadly, this means that sometimes we are not able to verify losses as being eligible for reimbursement by way of our server-side logs. Our logging capabilities are constantly improving, however, and with that we have a better chance of being able to render assistance.


bull****

this means some customers wont get reimbursed because you CCP dint want to log all things, if logging every single player action will crash a node you will have the logs so you CCP can reimburse them Very Happy where is the ****ing problem ?

MissyDark
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:17:00 - [37]
 

The only time a GM was helpful was when I was a noob only couple of hours into the game and couldn't figure out if my mission was completed successfully or not.

However every later petition was replied with "logs show nothing" or GM not understanding how skills in EVE work. He/she also did not understand basic math too (percentages).

Logs never show somehow the "session change in progress" on a gate in 0.0 system with two people in systems on both ends of the gate. The "session change in progress" that lasts over a minute while my shield and armor melts away. WHY do they never show this? How many times did you get a petition regarding this specific issue? 1000? 100 000? How come you did not add monitoring of the session change timer into logs yet?

Same thing with every other common petitions. It is OK if your logs show nothing FIRST couple of times some issue pops up. But then you should start monitoring for those issues and actually have this stuff in logs.

You do not and that's why the community HATES your support.

Best regards nevertheless, b/c EVE is a great game.

Mara Villoso
Posted - 2011.04.06 19:30:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Yoann Gourcuff
The waiting period on petitions is rather high, and you want them to spend a bunch of additional time verifying bugs and sending in bug reports? I'd rather they answer petitions faster so I don't have to wait 4 days for an answer, and players actually use the bug reporting page which I assume exists for a reason.

I'd rather they help to file the reports and gather data to fix the bugs once and for all. Invest the time and effort upfront in order to clear the queue down the line. This is a resource problem almost every company will deal with at some point. The best solution is to bite the bullet and deal with it now, rather than an endless series of petitions and the impression that they don't care.

The bug report tool is great and all, but it assumes that your average player knows the difference between a bug, a mistake, a game mechanic, a game mechanic being used against them, or simple GM error. Most people are so ****ed off by the time they've gone through the petition process that they don't bother going any further. Regrettable? Yes. But nonetheless a common emotional response.

The CCP speech from fanfest talked about 'introducing other people to EVE' and looking for ways to explain it to non-players. They should do what it takes to avoid having their game advertised by word of mouth as "buggy" and "bad customer support." These issues aren't just reimbursement issues, they speak to an underlying business model that, until very recently, doesn't recognize the importance of customer service and customer satisfaction. IMHO, it comes from a common techie ethos of regarding anyone outside the programming department as superfluous idiots, including customers. They are making serious strides with Team BFF, etc.. Now they need to bring that concept to their other departments.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.06 20:55:00 - [39]
 

Of course, this blog opens the flood gates for every nitwit that was ever refused reimbursement, or worked at MacDonalds and believes their customer service policies can be applied in an online gaming environment.

It was nicely pointed out that you sometimes get the "our logs show nothing" response because, in fact, you can't devote server resources to creating a searchable log file for the billions of interactions that happen in EVE every day.

You were further told that they are aware that this is an ideal that they should continually be working towards, that being to increase their capability to log more and more of these interactions.

The community response has been "You missed the point, we don't like how you told us no", or to spout nonsensical rephrasings that boil down to "we want you to log/investigate everything that happens in EVE even if it's not (practically speaking) possible".

Of course the best of the best is the "Your customers are asking for something. They're paying you money for it. You "do it". " responses. What planet do you live on?

I can contact my ISP right now and demand that they provide a 100% gaurantee that I will never be affected by a computer virus. I pay for their service, so why won't they do it? Why can't I hold them accountable?

Perhaps I should next contact my electric provider and demand an itemized bill that tells me exactly how much power each and every light bulb, electrical fixture and appliance in my house uses on a hourly basis. Not possible you say? How could they NOT log that information? I'm using the electricity and paying for it, I demand an accountability.

And in both of the above situations how dare they send me a form letter that says they regret that such a thing is not possible. I sent in 5 requests a day for a month, and each time I got the same response. DAMN THEIR EYES!!! I have never seen such terrible customer service.

They just don't understand, the point is not that they can't do these things. The point is that they didn't waste huge amounts of time and resources trying to do them anyway to keep me (personally) happy, and didn't send a series of personalized love letters kissing my ass.

People, do you honestly feel that CCP GM's find anything about denying someone reimbursement to be personally beneficial to them? Really? REALLY?

While most of us may not allow ourselves to be dragged into this childish thread, the bulk of the people I know and interact with have had their petitions handled fairly, even if it didn't end up the way they would like at times.

ceaon
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:09:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
...

plz kill yourself in game and dont post again until every single light bulb have a database

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:27:00 - [41]
 

I love it when people prove my point for me. Laughing

MissyDark
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:53:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
I love it when people prove my point for me. Laughing


Yeah, because being a fanboy who is incapable of challenging something CCP does is so much better for this game.

dibblebill
Danneskjold Heavy Industries
Posted - 2011.04.06 22:20:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

While most of us may not allow ourselves to be dragged into this childish thread, the bulk of the people I know and interact with have had their petitions handled fairly, even if it didn't end up the way they would like at times.



And what of my issue? I could evemail you the petition logs so you can see for yourself how mine was handled. Every GM gave me a DIFFERENT story until I asked that they not insult my intelligence.



Originally by: MissyDark

Yeah, because being a fanboy who is incapable of challenging something CCP does is so much better for this game.


Clearly mature players like you should compose the entire playerbase.

big fluf
Posted - 2011.04.06 23:57:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: xttz
Quote:
Posted by: biggie fluffy on 11/03/2011 17:33:00

I have to say I find may of your policy and M pretty horrible to deal with. It is clearly the most negative aspect of the game ( that is: interacting with GM when required).

99.999% of the the responses I have received from GM's indicate they either do not understand English, or have not bothered to read my request. It seems the GM is only concerned with providing a response, ANY response, and is not concerned with the quality of helping the person understand the issue.

I am currently dealing with an issue where I was buying items in station, but he items where being bought in other places. I found the issue. and sent a message to GM, I then did many other transactions to verify it could not possibly me something I was doing wrong, and then when to HELP CHANNEL to verify with them I was doing it all correct. I then messaged the gm FROM the station I was in , and bought something right then, with the same times stamp so they could verify the issue.

The response I received? "our logs show no errors"

This whole concept of the logs showing errors is faulty to start with! If your smart enough to sort through logs to find errors, why aren't you able to fix the problems generating them?!!!!!!!!

Quite simply - there needs to be a paradigm shift in the thinking of the gm's, and there roll. They need to be problems solvers, not the "blow off department".

I don't think you should EVER send a message to a user that your logs don't show the error they are seeing.-- this only proves that your logging is not effective.



Quote:
Our logs show lots of things. Regrettably, we are not able to log everything as there must be a trade-off where server performance and logging is concerned. Sadly, this means that sometimes we are not able to verify losses as being eligible for reimbursement by way of our server-side logs. Our logging capabilities are constantly improving, however, and with that we have a better chance of being able to render assistance.


Originally by: Jiro Rans

Wow this is exactly what the guy meant, it's as if you didn't read what he was saying. Nice job


Originally by: Jiro Rans

Wow this is exactly what the guy meant, it's as if you didn't read what he was saying. Nice job


Originally by: Jiro Rans

Wow this is exactly what the guy meant, it's as if you didn't read what he was saying. Nice job



More training for CCP staff on basic reading comprehension. Picking out just the handful sentences you notice or understand and replying to them does not constitute a proper reply.

I've lost count of the number of times I need to repeat myself in petitions, because I try to mention more than one point of discussion, and the GM apparently can't take in multiple pieces of information in one message.




Dear mr. Goon swarm guy, THANKS! for quoteing me...

I do however wonder where my original post went, GM/CPP did you delete it? if so why?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.04.07 01:13:00 - [45]
 

roffle at the people butthurt about GMs, awwww they didn't give you your shiny ship back, maybe you shouldn't have gone and lost it to a mission, or a 1000man lolblob.

and megalulz @ Lithia Tsanov's comments, I pay for internet spaceships, not internet GMs give me back my stuff :'[

Your Stuff
Posted - 2011.04.07 03:17:00 - [46]
 

If you are unsatisfied with your lack of reimbursement please contract remaining items to Your Stuff.



Also for those of you advocating that GM's create items out of thin air, please search for T20.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.07 05:42:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: MissyDark
Originally by: Ranger 1
I love it when people prove my point for me. Laughing


Yeah, because being a fanboy who is incapable of challenging something CCP does is so much better for this game.


I have plenty of criticisms for CCP when they deserve it, but unlike you I prefer not to get my panties in a bunch over a bunch of pixels. Especially when the complaints leveled show a complete ignorance of not only what is technologically feasible, but also what guidelines they have to realistically follow to maintain some degree fairness within the time constraints they have to work under.

If the clear and concise explanation given of what is and is not currently possible (and fair) to do with a petition doesn't register with you, then you are simply arguing because you are butt hurt about not getting what you wanted in the past.

Stop wasting my time.

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.04.07 07:48:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Your Stuff
Also for those of you advocating that GM's create items out of thin air, please search for T20.

Because GM bias towards certain player groups and mitigating the damage caused by CCPs technical problems is the same thing?

McPod
Posted - 2011.04.07 09:01:00 - [49]
 

wait, is all that nullsec "blobbing" being paid for by the reimbursement policy?


Troy TheFlash
Posted - 2011.04.14 22:22:00 - [50]
 

but for which damned reasons the server are down tonight??
and i made me a question: why ccp dont repay for any time there are problems connecting or hours of delay due to updates?

sure I have asked a question that will have an answer I will find unsatisfactory.....

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.04.15 19:08:00 - [51]
 

Behave Grimmi. Just behave.

You remember that UI patch? Yeah I got taken for a ride by that. To paraphrase the GM response? There are no bugs in EVE. So the, what? 8 'optional' patches that subsequently appeared all that were to fix bits of the broken UI were just figments of my imagination.

Jumped in to a heavy fight. Node went full ****** so bad we had blue text in local saying "Sorry". GM response? There is no lag in EVE.

Neither GM would escelate, neither wanted to know. That's some fine customer service right there. So start blogging once your house is in order and not a second before.

Muppets Biatch
Posted - 2011.04.28 21:47:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Muppets Biatch on 28/04/2011 21:48:00
Originally by: Ranger 1
I can contact my ISP right now and demand that they provide a 100% gaurantee that I will never be affected by a computer virus. I pay for their service, so why won't they do it? Why can't I hold them accountable?



Actually m8, do you live in the UK? In the last week of the labour goverment before the current con/lib coalition they rushed through a very shady piece of legislation. The Digital Economy Bill. I am not sure if the law is in effect yet but "The bill payer of an internet connection is liable for anything done using that internet connection".

Lets put this into context, if you go to McDonalds and watch pedo **** on free wifi, the mcdonalds franchise owner has commited a crime.

If you use your parents wifi and get a virus, "the bill payer is responsible for anything downloaded on that internet connection."

sources:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8604602.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Economy_Act_2010

MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.28 21:55:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Jefferson H Clay
Behave Grimmi. Just behave.
we had blue text in local saying "Sorry".


I have seen that also. The text in local that said "sorry" was the only part of eve that actually woked on that node.

Van Derka
Posted - 2011.05.11 00:47:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Mateja Agittain
Quote:
Posted by: biggie fluffy on 11/03/2011 17:33:00 I have to say I find may of your policy and M pretty horrible to deal with. It is clearly the most negative aspect of the game ( that is: interacting with GM when required). 99.999% of the the responses I have received from GM's indicate they either do not understand English, or have not bothered to read my request. It seems the GM is only concerned with providing a response, ANY response, and is not concerned with the quality of helping the person understand the issue. I am currently dealing with an issue where I was buying items in station, but he items where being bought in other places. I found the issue. and sent a message to GM, I then did many other transactions to verify it could not possibly me something I was doing wrong, and then when to HELP CHANNEL to verify with them I was doing it all correct. I then messaged the gm FROM the station I was in , and bought something right then, with the same times stamp so they could verify the issue. The response I received? "our logs show no errors" This whole concept of the logs showing errors is faulty to start with! If your smart enough to sort through logs to find errors, why aren't you able to fix the problems generating them?!!!!!!!! Quite simply - there needs to be a paradigm shift in the thinking of the gm's, and there roll. They need to be problems solvers, not the "blow off department". I don't think you should EVER send a message to a user that your logs don't show the error they are seeing.-- this only proves that your logging is not effective.
Quote:
Our logs show lots of things. Regrettably, we are not able to log everything as there must be a trade-off where server performance and logging is concerned. Sadly, this means that sometimes we are not able to verify losses as being eligible for reimbursement by way of our server-side logs. Our logging capabilities are constantly improving, however, and with that we have a better chance of being able to render assistance.



CCP simply doesn't care about it's PR department, because as long as the subscribers count will rise (even if ever so slightly) they won't admit that the PR department is seriously flawed. Funny thing is, they release some eye-candy trailer about what Eve's "goal" in the future is to be (which looks too much like some lame console-based FPS in my opinion) and they haven't been able to seriously fix any of the issues that have been in Eve now for years. Lag, PR, "our logs show nothing" laziness, the list could go on for quite some time. And that reply to the post by biggie fluffy "there must be a trade off where server performance and logging is concerned"... I would really like to know what server performance you're talking about, can you clarify? Because if anything, the performance of server(s) is at a poor level at the moment, judging by the fact that a system(server) can't even handle 300 players properly unless there's a "reinforced node" involved. So CCP, before you're trying to hook new players with wasting money on making trailers about Eve "evolving" into a FPS game, try to address the current issues at hand, there are many; judging by the responses I heard from people in-game and also read about in the blog, people are getting fed up, but a shame the number of complaints isn't nearly as big as it could and should be, since most people have just given up on stating their issues due to GM's ignorant and generic (c/p anyone?) replies. Hire some proper personnel that can handle PR.



Just on this... there seems to be no PR or marketing department in CCP. I recently went to an internet gaming cafe, they had all the online games except EVE... the EVE client is free! Why arnt CCP sending out internet cafe packs (posters/desk toys and media) to these cafe?


Pages: 1 [2]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only