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Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.06.02 03:26:00 - [1051]
 

Sorry people keep sending hate mail.

On null bots: we have a few members in null trying to catch ratting bots (which btw is really a pain). Also... the group of AFK cloakers are helping in this as well (not intentionally, but through their AFKness).
As for reporting, yeah, its slow. I wish CCP would hold alliances responsible (not sure how to do this fairly) for botting members.

CRA5HD0WN
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.02 04:09:00 - [1052]
 

Originally by: NOVA-STAR
Interrupting this thread. This is real I did laugh abit, then I heard the part about their punishment of they failed to farm ISK..

Gold-Farming in a Chinese forced-labor camp

(source)


The Guardian reports that prisoners in a Chinese forced-labor camp were required to "gold-farm" in multiplayer games such as World of Warcraft, EVE:Online, Farmville, amassing credits and virtual objects that the guards could sell to other players for real currency.

"Prison bosses made more money forcing inmates to play games than they do forcing people to do manual labour," Liu told the Guardian. "There were 300 prisoners forced to play games. We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp. I heard them say they could earn 5,000-6,000rmb [470-570] a day. We didn't see any of the money. The computers were never turned off."

But it was the forced online gaming that was the most surreal part of his imprisonment. The hard slog may have been virtual, but the punishment for falling behind was real.

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things," he said.

Kieser Report, RT - Commenting on the Article Above

(source: Youtube @ 03:25)


Stacy Herbert: They force these Chinese prisoners to play multiplayer games amassing credits and virtual objects, and forcing the prisoners to hand over the virtual items for real cash.


lol holy sh-t

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2011.06.02 05:37:00 - [1053]
 

But... we dont have gold... crazy chinese farmers, no wonder they are getting a whopping when they play Eve.

Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2011.06.02 05:47:00 - [1054]
 

Originally by: FeralShadow
But... we dont have gold... crazy chinese farmers, no wonder they are getting a whopping when they play Eve.


We have level 4 missions and ISK. I'm sad it's a political prisoner rather than a bot TBH.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.02 07:07:00 - [1055]
 

Originally by: Palovana
What if CCP created a bot program, and released it into the wild without any apparent link to CCP itself?

This program would at first appear to be undetectable, and CCP would not ban a single user for several months, thus allowing it to become a popular "stealthy" bot.

All the while the bot was recording the every move of everyone who used it - all their transactions, conversations, bookmarks, assets, alt accounts, etc.

Then after letting it run rampant for several months to a year, D-Day comes and all of the information which has been accumulated and datamined during those months is put to use resulting in the largest mass ban of botters the universe has ever seen?

Could there be a small dev team at CCP working on such a project right now?


Not likely.


Besides which, that borders on infringement of personal privacy, and various other things, and where does it stop?

Case in point: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/05/03/general-specialized-consumer-services-us-rental-computer-spyware_8447607.html

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.06.02 17:27:00 - [1056]
 

Still waiting for a devblog from screegs...

Tarikan
Minmatar
Hardcore p0wnography
Posted - 2011.06.03 00:13:00 - [1057]
 

i have seen noticeably less miner bots, but mission bots seems to still be there.

i only assume CCP is targeting miner bots at this time.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.03 01:06:00 - [1058]
 

Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 03/06/2011 01:12:15
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: NOVA-STAR
Interrupting this thread. This is real I did laugh abit, then I heard the part about their punishment of they failed to farm ISK..

Gold-Farming in a Chinese forced-labor camp

(source)


The Guardian reports that prisoners in a Chinese forced-labor camp were required to "gold-farm" in multiplayer games such as World of Warcraft, EVE:Online, Farmville, amassing credits and virtual objects that the guards could sell to other players for real currency.

"Prison bosses made more money forcing inmates to play games than they do forcing people to do manual labour," Liu told the Guardian. "There were 300 prisoners forced to play games. We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp. I heard them say they could earn 5,000-6,000rmb [470-570] a day. We didn't see any of the money. The computers were never turned off."

But it was the forced online gaming that was the most surreal part of his imprisonment. The hard slog may have been virtual, but the punishment for falling behind was real.

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things," he said.

Kieser Report, RT - Commenting on the Article Above

(source: Youtube @ 03:25)


Stacy Herbert: They force these Chinese prisoners to play multiplayer games amassing credits and virtual objects, and forcing the prisoners to hand over the virtual items for real cash.


All the more reason to disable their ability to use our game as a means to this end.

@ ISquishWorms: "As you said in the article this is old news and yet nothing has been done about it years on and that is my concern."

What on earth has led you to this conclusion? EVEs security protocols have not, and will not ever, be discussed with the general public. Any instances that have come to light of the EVE code being tampered with have been caught and dealt with. That is the reality of it, all else is supposition inserted in place of fact. Next thing you know you are going to find yourself refusing to do bank transactions or online purchases due to unfounded paranoia. Yes, occasionally security protocols fail and credit card information is exposed. It is more likely that you will be mugged in an alley or your house will be broken into and your credit card physically stolen. Shall we resort to the barter system until all possible risk is eliminated? (Even then, someone would likely steal your Ox while you slept). Wink


Just a quick note, CCP's action against botters does not stop real people from working hard under forced labor conditions to farm isk... also, chinese have their own server.. so they aren't here on tranquility right?

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2011.06.03 02:43:00 - [1059]
 

Considering they are attempting to make an easy living of online games, don't expect them to stick only to the chineses server but also some prisioner may know how to avoid the goverment nets and get into the overall MMO from USA/EU

clixor
Celluloid Gurus
Posted - 2011.06.03 10:05:00 - [1060]
 

Originally by: Sadayiel
Considering they are attempting to make an easy living of online games, don't expect them to stick only to the chineses server but also some prisioner may know how to avoid the goverment nets and get into the overall MMO from USA/EU


With the corruption and all, government officials most likely are involved.

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.06.03 17:30:00 - [1061]
 

Hmm, 3rd page, can't have that.

Friendly bump for the war on bots.


And for content: does anyone want to begin a raid into null? Going in and looking for bots?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.03 17:44:00 - [1062]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 03/06/2011 18:04:05
Apparently Fiori 161 is having difficulty finding this thread, so giving him a helping hand (even if he is obviously a troll). Laughing




NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.06.03 17:50:00 - [1063]
 

Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
Hmm, 3rd page, can't have that.

Friendly bump for the war on bots.


And for content: does anyone want to begin a raid into null? Going in and looking for bots?


I would love to

but we need more people

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2011.06.03 17:51:00 - [1064]
 

All the null sec bots are in unprobeable tengus (or ones with cloaks for doing sanctums). The only place you'd get with them is camping them for weeks. However, I can confirm it works... I camped one for two weeks. In the beginning, I just thought he was a persistant ratter (sometimes you find them), and I demanded protection money from him... mafia style. Then when I got no response for several days, I got suspicious, continued to camp, then petitioned him and reported him as a bot with my findings, and in 2 days he didn't log in mysteriously, and I haven't seen him since.

It does work, but it's boring as hell.

Adrie Atticus
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.06.03 18:19:00 - [1065]
 

Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 03/06/2011 01:12:15
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: NOVA-STAR
Interrupting this thread. This is real I did laugh abit, then I heard the part about their punishment of they failed to farm ISK..

Gold-Farming in a Chinese forced-labor camp

(source)


The Guardian reports that prisoners in a Chinese forced-labor camp were required to "gold-farm" in multiplayer games such as World of Warcraft, EVE:Online, Farmville, amassing credits and virtual objects that the guards could sell to other players for real currency.

"Prison bosses made more money forcing inmates to play games than they do forcing people to do manual labour," Liu told the Guardian. "There were 300 prisoners forced to play games. We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp. I heard them say they could earn 5,000-6,000rmb [470-570] a day. We didn't see any of the money. The computers were never turned off."

But it was the forced online gaming that was the most surreal part of his imprisonment. The hard slog may have been virtual, but the punishment for falling behind was real.

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things," he said.

Kieser Report, RT - Commenting on the Article Above

(source: Youtube @ 03:25)


Stacy Herbert: They force these Chinese prisoners to play multiplayer games amassing credits and virtual objects, and forcing the prisoners to hand over the virtual items for real cash.


All the more reason to disable their ability to use our game as a means to this end.

@ ISquishWorms: "As you said in the article this is old news and yet nothing has been done about it years on and that is my concern."

What on earth has led you to this conclusion? EVEs security protocols have not, and will not ever, be discussed with the general public. Any instances that have come to light of the EVE code being tampered with have been caught and dealt with. That is the reality of it, all else is supposition inserted in place of fact. Next thing you know you are going to find yourself refusing to do bank transactions or online purchases due to unfounded paranoia. Yes, occasionally security protocols fail and credit card information is exposed. It is more likely that you will be mugged in an alley or your house will be broken into and your credit card physically stolen. Shall we resort to the barter system until all possible risk is eliminated? (Even then, someone would likely steal your Ox while you slept). Wink


Just a quick note, CCP's action against botters does not stop real people from working hard under forced labor conditions to farm isk... also, chinese have their own server.. so they aren't here on tranquility right?


Yep, Chineseses(?) server is called Serenity and Chribba took a 2-week tour there: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=637805

Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.03 21:04:00 - [1066]
 

Bump, can't have this thread off the 1st page Very Happy.

Solstice Project
Posted - 2011.06.04 00:08:00 - [1067]
 


*bump*

finally got to do it too ! :D


Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.04 00:44:00 - [1068]
 

Interesting about the Chinese server. I wonder if we could get enough people to pay them a visit (mafia style).Twisted Evil

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.06.04 06:03:00 - [1069]
 

Originally by: Henry Haphorn
Interesting about the Chinese server. I wonder if we could get enough people to pay them a visit (mafia style).Twisted Evil


And accomplish what, besides visiting grief on players who aren't botting on our server? No, I'd rather pay a visit to the bot-farms, as in their physical location, as in with intent to liberate a bunch of poor enslaved computers from a terrible task they've been set. ;)

(No, I am not advocating ACTUALLY stealing physical assets. That would be illegal. I would never advocate anything illegal.)

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.06.04 07:11:00 - [1070]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 04/06/2011 07:28:25
Edited by: Super Whopper on 04/06/2011 07:16:20
CCP should not only ban bots but also follow the money and ban EVERYONE who comes into contact with it.

Oh, the joy when everyone gets banned because everything on the market and in the game is tainted by bots. Then you whiners can make new accounts and whine about CCP implementing what you've begged for and got it too Laughing

Fortunately CCP aren't entirely ******ed, unlike the whiners here. CCP understand full well that banning the bots will mean such a large decrease in their income they will eventually end up shutting down. Then we can all move on to WoW, whine there till the cycle repeats itself Rolling Eyes

While CCP have an obligation to fix problems with the game they also have to justify banning massive amounts of accounts, leading to huge income loss, to their shareholders. Once again you see the failings of capitalism, for both bots and CCP have a vested interest in each other. Now get a calculator and punch a few numbers in, because even if only 1% of the population is a bot CCP won't actively ban all, as 1% in the long term is the shareholders income.

Also there's a difference between RMT and bot. Bots usually do it to pay for PLEX, RMT are the real evil ones. They are the ones who run sweatshops, labour camps and other forms of slavery. They are also the ones who really hurt the game through the trade of super caps, moon crap and other things.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.06.04 09:16:00 - [1071]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Edited by: Super Whopper on 04/06/2011 07:28:25
Edited by: Super Whopper on 04/06/2011 07:16:20
CCP should not only ban bots but also follow the money and ban EVERYONE who comes into contact with it.

Oh, the joy when everyone gets banned because everything on the market and in the game is tainted by bots. Then you whiners can make new accounts and whine about CCP implementing what you've begged for and got it too Laughing

Fortunately CCP aren't entirely ******ed, unlike the whiners here. CCP understand full well that banning the bots will mean such a large decrease in their income they will eventually end up shutting down. Then we can all move on to WoW, whine there till the cycle repeats itself Rolling Eyes

While CCP have an obligation to fix problems with the game they also have to justify banning massive amounts of accounts, leading to huge income loss, to their shareholders. Once again you see the failings of capitalism, for both bots and CCP have a vested interest in each other. Now get a calculator and punch a few numbers in, because even if only 1% of the population is a bot CCP won't actively ban all, as 1% in the long term is the shareholders income.

Also there's a difference between RMT and bot. Bots usually do it to pay for PLEX, RMT are the real evil ones. They are the ones who run sweatshops, labour camps and other forms of slavery. They are also the ones who really hurt the game through the trade of super caps, moon crap and other things.


I don't know who your main is. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for free isk, I can tell you I don't have isk. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you stop botting now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.04 09:32:00 - [1072]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 04/06/2011 09:42:16
Originally by: Henry Haphorn
Interesting about the Chinese server. I wonder if we could get enough people to pay them a visit (mafia style).Twisted Evil

It is easy for the Chinese to play on TQ (had a chinese corpmate once, the whole internet censorship and "you are supposed to play on the chinese server" thing didn't seem to be much of a hurdle/concern to him; iirc he said the main hurdle for Chinese players was that (western) credit cards are not very wide-spread in China) but it is hard for us to get on Serenity as account registration requires the Chinese equivalent of a SSID.

The forum website that CCP hates has a thread called "A brief history of EVE Serenity server" with more information.

Token Afrodude
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.04 09:41:00 - [1073]
 

Originally by: Miso Hawnee


I don't know who your main is. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for free isk, I can tell you I don't have isk. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you stop botting now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.




epic....****ing.....movie

Scott DTA
Gallente
Crystal Ship
Posted - 2011.06.04 21:14:00 - [1074]
 

Quote:
CCP has already caught few unlucky XXXXXX users with their behavioural tracking. The major worry is that if such cases will continue and even increase (we can expect that some of banzored RR users might flock to here, and those guys ain't the sharpest tools in the shed...), CCP will follow their metrics and switch their attention to us. Another risk is, that if players start seeing mission runners that run 23/7 (after agent nerf and spreading out of missions hubs, such bots will be much more noticable), they will get suspicious and we might expect the same level of backslash, hate and threadnaughting the mining bot have received).

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.04 21:53:00 - [1075]
 

Originally by: Scott DTA
Quote:
CCP has already caught few unlucky XXXXXX users with their behavioural tracking. The major worry is that if such cases will continue and even increase (we can expect that some of banzored RR users might flock to here, and those guys ain't the sharpest tools in the shed...), CCP will follow their metrics and switch their attention to us. Another risk is, that if players start seeing mission runners that run 23/7 (after agent nerf and spreading out of missions hubs, such bots will be much more noticable), they will get suspicious and we might expect the same level of backslash, hate and threadnaughting the mining bot have received).



Excellent news. Nice to see how the ban hammer is having an effect. Let's keep it up guys. Eventually, even the mission botters will feel the pain they rightly deserved.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.06.05 01:41:00 - [1076]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Edited by: Super Whopper on 04/06/2011 07:28:25
Edited by: Super Whopper on 04/06/2011 07:16:20
CCP should not only ban bots but also follow the money and ban EVERYONE who comes into contact with it.

Oh, the joy when everyone gets banned because everything on the market and in the game is tainted by bots. Then you whiners can make new accounts and whine about CCP implementing what you've begged for and got it too Laughing

Fortunately CCP aren't entirely ******ed, unlike the whiners here. CCP understand full well that banning the bots will mean such a large decrease in their income they will eventually end up shutting down. Then we can all move on to WoW, whine there till the cycle repeats itself Rolling Eyes

While CCP have an obligation to fix problems with the game they also have to justify banning massive amounts of accounts, leading to huge income loss, to their shareholders. Once again you see the failings of capitalism, for both bots and CCP have a vested interest in each other. Now get a calculator and punch a few numbers in, because even if only 1% of the population is a bot CCP won't actively ban all, as 1% in the long term is the shareholders income.

Also there's a difference between RMT and bot. Bots usually do it to pay for PLEX, RMT are the real evil ones. They are the ones who run sweatshops, labour camps and other forms of slavery. They are also the ones who really hurt the game through the trade of super caps, moon crap and other things.


CCP has answered this issue many times. They say that many bots do not pay at all, they use stolen credit card numbers. They use server resources, with no benefit to CCP. The loss of that income, plus the paperwork associated with credit card callbacks cost CCP money.

In addition, bots annoy players and give Eve a bad name, costing CCP subscriptions. They have said that their general opinion is a bot filled game is less profitable than one that is as free from bots as they can make it.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:11:00 - [1077]
 

Originally by: Vincent Athena
CCP has answered this issue many times. They say that many bots do not pay at all, they use stolen credit card numbers. They use server resources, with no benefit to CCP. The loss of that income, plus the paperwork associated with credit card callbacks cost CCP money.

In addition, bots annoy players and give Eve a bad name, costing CCP subscriptions. They have said that their general opinion is a bot filled game is less profitable than one that is as free from bots as they can make it.


Players aren't leaving because of bots. What better way to blame something that's not entirely within your control than accept responsibility for your own stupidity? You think players reading that CCP don't care about the CSM, which is their own construct, or their 18 months comments are going to come to the game and new players, who last less than six months on average, are going to think CCP are wonderful?

You want to solve EVE's problems? Shoot the management.

Scott DTA
Gallente
Crystal Ship
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:18:00 - [1078]
 

Sorry, some of these are now almost 2 months old, but didn't see them posted, and some of it is a good read.

Quote:
I'm using my own version of XXXXXX, and I've put A LOT of effort into it so far, like a month of coding 10 hours per day. But yes, I use directeve.dll - just because I've got no choice. Also, it's not like I care so much about bans that I stop playing Eve after banwave - but it takes time and money to train new chars up. So, if banwaves come more often that, say, 3-4 months - it becomes pretty much pointless to bot any further. Though, in case CCP do really use this "three strikes rule" - I'm all in for it! The following is for CCP (if they really read this forum):

It's ok, warn every my account every month, I'll register fresh accounts and pay even more to transfer my chars, just to earn the right to bot for another month. This way we both get profit: I get it from RMT, you get 3x payment compared to a common player (new acc + transfer vs just monthly payment). OTOH, if you warn me more often or even instaban, it might just become unprofitable to bot any further (which results in no more payments from me).

Finally, I honestly don't understand people who ruin useful things instead of selling them... If you (Edgar) are right, and DT does really think like that (how do you know it, btw? are you his friend?), then I don't get the point of having this forum and even supporting XXXXXXX as it is. What is the reason to support a product which is already condemned by its creator?

Kurokawa Ryujin
Posted - 2011.06.05 05:10:00 - [1079]
 





I don't know who your main is. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for free isk, I can tell you I don't have isk. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you stop botting now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.


"Good Luck"

I just can't help myself Very Happy

I'm 5particus
Minmatar
REV0LTING
Posted - 2011.06.05 08:21:00 - [1080]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: Vincent Athena
CCP has answered this issue many times. They say that many bots do not pay at all, they use stolen credit card numbers. They use server resources, with no benefit to CCP. The loss of that income, plus the paperwork associated with credit card callbacks cost CCP money.

In addition, bots annoy players and give Eve a bad name, costing CCP subscriptions. They have said that their general opinion is a bot filled game is less profitable than one that is as free from bots as they can make it.


Players aren't leaving because of bots. What better way to blame something that's not entirely within your control than accept responsibility for your own stupidity? You think players reading that CCP don't care about the CSM, which is their own construct, or their 18 months comments are going to come to the game and new players, who last less than six months on average, are going to think CCP are wonderful?

You want to solve EVE's problems? Shoot the management.


You need to train reading comprehension III and constructive discussion I.


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