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Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.20 06:28:00 - [901]
 

Edited by: Adrian Idaho on 20/05/2011 06:29:09
Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
Originally by: Vincent Athena
Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
Bots suck, but griefers suck more. Noone has ever died to a macro miner.


No, but entire alliances have fallen to the supercaps funded with macro sanctum runners.

Oh c'mon you cant tell me there hasn't ever been a super cap fleet funded buy griefers popping freighters in hi-sec. Rolling Eyes

lol, yeah, you can be pretty sure that 0.0 alliances aren't funded through high-sec freighter ganks Rolling Eyes Think about it:
  • You need a lot of battleships to pop a freighter in high-sec (I think the number is between 10 and 15). This means high costs, so the target has to be pretty juicy (several billions) to even make a decent profit and justify the sec status drop.

  • There are not that many stupid freighter pilots, so this is a pretty limited income source.

  • Since a lot of people are involved (the alpha-dealers, a scanner ship, a freighter to pick the stuff up), it takes some coordination, so it's not something which you can do when you're bored in the evening. Not to mention, you can't macro it.

I'm not saying that 0.0 alliances are funded through bots, but they sure as hell aren't funded through high-sec freighter ganks.

Besides, in EVE it's not "griefing" when you have at least one motivation other than making the target miserable.

Alicia Melchiottt
Posted - 2011.05.20 13:36:00 - [902]
 

Edited by: Alicia Melchiottt on 20/05/2011 13:42:54
Edited by: Alicia Melchiottt on 20/05/2011 13:42:43
Edited by: Alicia Melchiottt on 20/05/2011 13:42:15
Heh, maybe not hi-sec freighter ganks Laughing, but if you get a few guys and go can flipping, you can make a hefty profit and not loose any ships. Just need a scout running around broadcasting targets, and guys in haulers just warp to, pick the can and warp out. Quick and clean in-and-out, and the miner's screwed out of millions. Do that a few dozen times, and you're rich as sin. ugh
There's plenty of ways to pirate hi-sec and all of it amounts to somebody getting screwed, and that's worse than missing out on a few roids that you probably wouldn't even enjoy mining.

I'm not saying I condone piracy or botting, but piracy hurts more people than botting alone.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.05.20 13:53:00 - [903]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 20/05/2011 13:55:53
Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
Heh, maybe not hi-sec freighter ganks Laughing, but if you get a few guys and go can flipping, you can make a hefty profit and not loose any ships. Just need a scout running around broadcasting targets, and guys in haulers just warp to, pick the can and warp out. Quick and clean in-and-out, and the miner's screwed out of millions. Do that a few dozen times, and you're rich as sin. ugh

officer spawns in high-sec is where the money is at - in contrast to 0.0 they drop decent loot and not just ammo & tags.

edit: before anybody takes my joke seriously (as happened with my last comment in this thread Confused) - I am talking about ganking mission runners not about evil hax.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:38:00 - [904]
 

Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
Edited by: Alicia Melchiottt on 20/05/2011 13:42:54
Edited by: Alicia Melchiottt on 20/05/2011 13:42:43
Edited by: Alicia Melchiottt on 20/05/2011 13:42:15
Heh, maybe not hi-sec freighter ganks Laughing, but if you get a few guys and go can flipping, you can make a hefty profit and not loose any ships. Just need a scout running around broadcasting targets, and guys in haulers just warp to, pick the can and warp out. Quick and clean in-and-out, and the miner's screwed out of millions. Do that a few dozen times, and you're rich as sin. ugh
There's plenty of ways to pirate hi-sec and all of it amounts to somebody getting screwed, and that's worse than missing out on a few roids that you probably wouldn't even enjoy mining.

Okay, seriously now: do you actually believe what you're saying? 0.0 alliances getting their money from canflipping miners in high-sec?
Are you on drugs?

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:41:00 - [905]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 20/05/2011 13:55:53
Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
Heh, maybe not hi-sec freighter ganks Laughing, but if you get a few guys and go can flipping, you can make a hefty profit and not loose any ships. Just need a scout running around broadcasting targets, and guys in haulers just warp to, pick the can and warp out. Quick and clean in-and-out, and the miner's screwed out of millions. Do that a few dozen times, and you're rich as sin. ugh

officer spawns in high-sec is where the money is at - in contrast to 0.0 they drop decent loot and not just ammo & tags.

edit: before anybody takes my joke seriously (as happened with my last comment in this thread Confused) - I am talking about ganking mission runners not about evil hax.

Laughing
Space-piñatas Very Happy

Landlady
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:42:00 - [906]
 

Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
I'm not saying I condone piracy or botting, but piracy hurts more people than botting alone.


DIAF, your thinly veiled support of botting is rather obvious here.

We don't need you or your kind here.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:52:00 - [907]
 

Originally by: Landlady
Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
I'm not saying I condone piracy or botting, but piracy hurts more people than botting alone.


DIAF, your thinly veiled support of botting is rather obvious here.

We don't need you or your kind here.

I think what Alicia wanted to express is that botting has a less direct respectively less visible effect on people's gameplay than botting.

Landlady
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:14:00 - [908]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Originally by: Landlady
Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
I'm not saying I condone piracy or botting, but piracy hurts more people than botting alone.


DIAF, your thinly veiled support of botting is rather obvious here.

We don't need you or your kind here.

I think what Alicia wanted to express is that botting has a less direct respectively less visible effect on people's gameplay than botting.


The effects of botting are visible every time you open the market, every time you buy a ship, every time you open the character sales forum and see a tengu-capable character go obscenely high, and every time you go PVP against someone who can field a fleet of supercaps (or t3's in subcap gangs). People just choose to ignore these signs.


Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:58:00 - [909]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho


In response to Alicia Melchiottt

Okay, seriously now: do you actually believe what you're saying? 0.0 alliances getting their money from canflipping miners in high-sec?
Are you on drugs?


Maybe, but most definitely a noob. Someone who things that a handful of cans makes you "rich" must be a noob that has no concept of the isk you can make from moongoo, manufacturing, officer spawns, 0.0 ratting, etc etc etc.

Saying that pirates "have a bigger impact" is a very personal statement from a noob (not trying to be offensive, just stating a fact) that does not quite realize how the economy works and that their iskies are getting pew pew'ed in a much more subtle way.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.05.20 17:44:00 - [910]
 

just finished my 1/2 day at work


time to gank, if you want in join channel "Bot Grief" now, im calling the arms in 20 min :)

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.05.20 20:17:00 - [911]
 

Hey guys,

Today, a group of us tracked down and ganked some botters. We only got two, and there where only 4 of us. But I'm hoping this will be the start of player justice in eve.

I'm sure you're all asking, how do we know it was a bot account? Well, there are several tells. I don't wanna give away all my secrets, I know bot users read this thread and I don't want to give them a tip of my tactics.

Know that these accounts had been watched for several days, by more then just me. They have been found mining ice in the same belt, at the same rock, for hours on end, multiple days in a row. I had tried to contact them both via eve mail and convo prior to ganking them.

That's all I'm going to say of how I found them...here are the KM's, decide for yourself.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13323349


http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13323623


If you're truly fed up, and want to make a difference, contact me. If you can help gank, fund, scout, or watch. Please do. I'm not asking for a full time commitment, I'm asking everyone who reads this to do a little. If a thousand people do a little, it will = alot.

I also received more donations for this today. The people (again) have asked to remain anonymous, so you know who you are. I speak for everyone when I say "Thank you!"

Don't let this be the only time we as the players fight the hoard of the bot infestation.

Im Super Gay
Posted - 2011.05.20 22:35:00 - [912]
 

Originally by: Consequence Zero
Originally by: Consequence Zero
What I think should be done regarding the bans could be more extreeme than what is being reported (1st offence is anywhere between 3 days and 14 days)

My Idea:

1st strike: 7 day ban and the reduction of all assets to zero. Since it is ill gotten plundered loot but can be replaced with work. Make it cost the botter where it hurts. Also a 3-6 month freeze of all character trading on the account that MUST be waited out with actual game time. As in no letting the account expire and activate after time is done. This will cost the botter either actual money or more likely Plex that is supplied by a Main and hence built in isk tracking. Twisted Evil

2nd Strike: 15-30 day Ban, the removal of all assets again. The Permanant inability to character transfer character(s) in or out of the account. Now there is no "Cleaning" of the botting character to a "fresh" account.

3rd Strike: Permanant Ban of the Account and the name and shame of the banned Characters. The Name and Shame should be like the wanted poster on the portrait that reads something like "Infected by Rogue Drones, Clone Deleted" to keep the role play immersion intact. Laughing and listed in a thread in the New Forums by the Month. This should put some pressure on those that support the botting and harbor the bots. The corps should notice an active yet quiet player that goes *Poof* twice prior to the name and shame and take action. Since the characters will never be coming back into Eve, and no personal info is shared (actual name of the person owning the account)I see no reason to hide this info.

While removing all assets: ships, loot, isk seems harsh, I believe is will lend some muscle to how serious the matter is and force the botters to step up the sending of isk to be laundered much more frequent and allowing the trail to be seen much easier as well as slowing down the 1 billion for a shuttle pretend scam.

or am I completely wrong?



Heh, Maybe someone reads these and listens. Twisted Evil But who am I kidding. Anyways good to see some form of punishment is happening beyond the slap on the wrist.

Now I am just waiting to see the whines that happen if/when characters are forbidden from being sold

CCP bans the accounts, not the characters...

Alicia Melchiottt
Posted - 2011.05.20 23:24:00 - [913]
 

Sigh, some people just don't get it when they're being trolled. LaughingRolling Eyes

Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.21 01:07:00 - [914]
 

Originally by: Henry Haphorn
Here is a thought I brought up long ago, but seems to have been ignored. It's a suggestion that's based off of the concept brought up the introduction of PI.

Every once in a while, during mining, a little notification should pop up saying something like this:

"Your computer has detected an anomaly within your mining modules <be it mining laser upgrades, standard miners or crystals>. You must recalibrate them now before they start suffering damage or yield degradation."

Once you click ok, a pop up windows comes up and you have to manually click and drag around a series of puzzles the same way you would when you view a planet in Planet mode and then you have to make corrections based on your best guess and observations. What do you think?

I think your idea should die in a fire.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.05.21 01:18:00 - [915]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho

Besides, in EVE it's not "griefing" when you have at least one motivation other than making the target miserable.


and even if it is, "welcome to EVE"

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.05.21 17:26:00 - [916]
 

Hey guys,


All ganking and trolling aside, CCP is sitll doing their job...I have fresh tears to report.

Tiny Miner users have suffered another hit. Quoting fyreplug

Originally by: fyreplug

Well, they banned all three of my accounts with the update and I have only ever used one to mine with. The others I use for missions alone. I mine to a POS so I don't even know why they would bother with me.

Guess I'm done with EVE.



no sooner had he posted that, another user in the forums responded with:

Originally by: slasher87

Had one account banned today, was reported once and moved systems, mined probably 12 hours a day with random intervals through the day, and not ever more 5 days a week. Seems like people reporting seems to be the issue in my case.



There you go folks, while we work hard on ganking suspected bots, CCP still working the slow burn method.

Rosewalker
Minmatar
Khumaak Flying Circus
Posted - 2011.05.21 18:05:00 - [917]
 

Looks like CCP has been busy since the patch. A bunch of botters were complaining on the GS forums Thursday:

Originally by: jaec
Banned today. No warning, all my accounts, even the ones that don't mine at all.
I mine 8 hours per day on a schedule, I guess I didn't move systems often enough.


Originally by: JustDana
I just received 2 more bans myself. I lost 3-4 miners total so far. The contributing factor was they were being disconnected over and over and over. windows being minimized... ive posted about this before.



Originally by: macro
eye they banned mine but also my main that was wharsh nvr macrod with him o well


I guess when the developer posted that everything thing was working for him after the patch that everyone figured he also made it so CCP could not detect them. Silly botters Twisted Evil

Kalot Sakaar
Posted - 2011.05.21 19:33:00 - [918]
 

I've been reading this with interest. I have a question though. What prevents people reporting botters (espcially with a feature to do that in upcoming incarna) that are totally false/or percieved false. If I want to grief someone, though they may totally legit miners, and I report them, will they get banned automatically? Seems like a mean way to harass the honest. Seems like I can just fly around and report every miner I see not really knowing if they are a botter or not?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.05.21 19:38:00 - [919]
 

Originally by: Kalot Sakaar
I've been reading this with interest. I have a question though. What prevents people reporting botters (espcially with a feature to do that in upcoming incarna) that are totally false/or percieved false. If I want to grief someone, though they may totally legit miners, and I report them, will they get banned automatically? Seems like a mean way to harass the honest. Seems like I can just fly around and report every miner I see not really knowing if they are a botter or not?

Everything will be investigated and if you abuse the function you will most likely get banned, just like the use of "report ISK Spammer" on innocent players.

Nemasis612
Caldari
Contemptuous Wrath
Posted - 2011.05.21 19:42:00 - [920]
 

These emergency reboots play hell with the botters lol. Maybe we should have a random emergency reboot everyday...

Murseilius Chan
Posted - 2011.05.22 06:07:00 - [921]
 

Originally by: Nemasis612
These emergency reboots play hell with the botters lol. Maybe we should have a random emergency reboot everyday...


Was thinking the other day that even a 1mb patch each day that changes a small bit of code that affects how bots interact with the game would be interesting. Multiple hours offline for all bots would make me feel warm and fuzzy Cool

(And bump back to the top!)

Alicia Melchiottt
Posted - 2011.05.22 07:51:00 - [922]
 

Originally by: Murseilius Chan
Originally by: Nemasis612
These emergency reboots play hell with the botters lol. Maybe we should have a random emergency reboot everyday...


Was thinking the other day that even a 1mb patch each day that changes a small bit of code that affects how bots interact with the game would be interesting. Multiple hours offline for all bots would make me feel warm and fuzzy Cool

(And bump back to the top!)

The problem with that idea is that it will also annoy legitimate players, not only bots.

helix darkstar
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:07:00 - [923]
 

Edited by: helix darkstar on 22/05/2011 09:07:52
i keep seeing people quoting numbers for how many accounts have been band, is there a blog or a forum post i've missed because i haven't seen any offical numbers from ccp and yet these number keep being used as if they are from ccp.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:24:00 - [924]
 

Originally by: helix darkstar
Edited by: helix darkstar on 22/05/2011 09:07:52
i keep seeing people quoting numbers for how many accounts have been band, is there a blog or a forum post i've missed because i haven't seen any offical numbers from ccp and yet these number keep being used as if they are from ccp.


According to a post by GM Lelouch:

Quote:

Well over 3000 full accounts have been banned in the past month for botting or some sort of RMT affiliation (sans ISK spamming). If we include banned trial accounts and accounts banned for advertising RMT sites, we're almost at 5000 accounts.



Lord Zim
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.22 09:58:00 - [925]
 

Originally by: Nemasis612
These emergency reboots play hell with the botters lol. Maybe we should have a random emergency reboot everyday...

You sound like you've got experience...

Originally by: Alicia Melchiottt
The problem with that idea is that it will also annoy legitimate players, not only bots.

tbh whatever the **** it is CCP did in one of the patches the last month or two (I forget the exact timespan) ****es me off. Seriously, CCP, what the christ is with the 10 second sleep() cycle in the middle of the startup sequence?

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.05.22 16:44:00 - [926]
 

Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Originally by: helix darkstar
Edited by: helix darkstar on 22/05/2011 09:07:52
i keep seeing people quoting numbers for how many accounts have been band, is there a blog or a forum post i've missed because i haven't seen any offical numbers from ccp and yet these number keep being used as if they are from ccp.


According to a post by GM Lelouch:

Quote:



Well over 3000 full accounts have been banned in the past month for botting or some sort of RMT affiliation (sans ISK spamming). If we include banned trial accounts and accounts banned for advertising RMT sites, we're almost at 5000 accounts.





And I remember that CCP Sreegs' saying that those numbers did not include the bans from his team's efforts. So we still need Sreegs' numbers.

Komen
Gallente
Capital Enrichment Services
Posted - 2011.05.23 08:33:00 - [927]
 

Friendly bump for my favorite thread.

Poulain
Posted - 2011.05.23 09:19:00 - [928]
 

Just came back from a 14-day vacation, did i miss something ??

clixor
Celluloid Gurus
Posted - 2011.05.23 12:32:00 - [929]
 

Originally by: Poulain
Just came back from a 14-day vacation, did i miss something ??


Keep doing what you were doing, all is back to normal.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.05.23 14:51:00 - [930]
 

Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Originally by: helix darkstar
Edited by: helix darkstar on 22/05/2011 09:07:52
i keep seeing people quoting numbers for how many accounts have been band, is there a blog or a forum post i've missed because i haven't seen any offical numbers from ccp and yet these number keep being used as if they are from ccp.


According to a post by GM Lelouch:

Quote:

Well over 3000 full accounts have been banned in the past month for botting or some sort of RMT affiliation (sans ISK spamming). If we include banned trial accounts and accounts banned for advertising RMT sites, we're almost at 5000 accounts.





TY CCP Spitfire for that update. 5000 is way more then the number of ganks we sponsored this weekend lol.

Hey guys, a quick glance around the websites today, only found 1 tear but it's worth posting.

Originally by: thug

» Mon May 23, 2011 8:05 am

got 6 accounts 5 got banned the day after the patch came out for two weeks the one that didnt has a different e-mail address so it seems to me that they look at the e-mail address of the rogue account and ban every character with the same e-mail....
looks like i might make up 6 e-mail accounts to see if it helps



I am curious if the numbers reflect a ratio of bot users. 5000 accounts have been banned; this guy reports 5 of his accounts. I wonder if botting is a wide spread silent faux-pas (you might even know someone who secretly bots), or if it's reserved for a small group of people that own 5-10 accounts each. Who's to say?

That's it for now peeps, fly safe and as always, thanks for reading Cool


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