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DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.03 16:08:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: DHB WildCat on 03/04/2011 16:12:00
Hello all, this is a post to discuss soaly the "anti cyno" ship idea. Please feel free to add ideas or changes or simply discuss them in this thread.

So what is an "anti cyno" ship? Well as the name states, it is a ship that would have an activated module that prohibits a cyno field from being used on the same grid as the "anti cyno" ship. Yes just the grid, it is not meant as a movable cyno field blocking module for the entire system.

Ship types -

Developer - based on recovered Jove technology.

Hyasyoda is one of the oldest of the Caldari mega corporations, having been formed shortly after first contact with the Gallenteans when the Caldari were still in the Industrial Age. It's conservative and cautious, but adheres to the old saying: 'Only the paranoid survive.'

There would be three ship class types. A frig / Battlecruiser / and Battleship sized ship. Each having modified EHP and tank for each class. Yes it would be a large tank but nothing insane. Something to allow the ship to survive a min or two if primaried.


Fittings -

High slots - 1, yes only 1. No missile or turret hardpoints. Only meant for the "anti cyno" module. And obviously no cloak.

Mids - A few for cap mods if needed maybe a propulsion mod.

Lows - 8 for tanking.

CPU and PG - would be comperable to the class type, so as not to be able to fit oversized mods to make a tank insanely strong.




The cyno module?
It would be almost identical to the triage module used by carriers. It would have 10 min timer, with the same restrictions. The ship once activated would not be able to move, could not be remote repped .... ect.

It could also use a new form of fuel, so that worm hole users could have something new to harvest.

Obviously the main idea of these ships is to give a gang / fleet a window to know a potential hot drop is incoming.You would not be able to stop the hot drop but by the time the enemy jumps into system AND warps to your grid you may have time to retreat or gain tactical range to counter them. This would help small gang pvp tremendoulsy from capitals online.

Also it would add a new mindgame set to engagements. Are they worried about a hot drop? omg we are losing the fight... maybe if we primary the anti cyno ship they'll think a hot drop is coming....ect.

Anyhow pls discuss! 8)

WildCat

Dr Richard Dawkins
Posted - 2011.04.03 17:18:00 - [2]
 

How about a chance for Jove warships to destroy supercaps when they cyno in/out. Same effect and storyline, much more simple to execute.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.03 17:49:00 - [3]
 

Right, because we need more alts to do PvP in this game.

Got the covert ops alt, the falcon alt, the ganglink alt, the logistics alt, the dictor alts and now the no cyno alt.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.03 18:10:00 - [4]
 

lol thats an interesting idea Dr. but we havent seen jove ships in the game 8P.... but would be funny lol

dreamingtoday
Posted - 2011.04.03 20:22:00 - [5]
 

I have an alternative idea how about a dedicated cyno ship, this way at least not every ship on grid has the potential to field a cyno.

You could give it some silly bonus to ehp or resis once the cyno is lit

Kastsumi Kobayariel
Posted - 2011.04.03 20:40:00 - [6]
 

No.

It took me less than 2 minutes to find ways to exploit this ship and system to completely break capital/supercapital engagements.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.03 21:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
No.

It took me less than 2 minutes to find ways to exploit this ship and system to completely break capital/supercapital engagements.


Please explain, how can you lock down every grid in the system?

fkingfurious
Posted - 2011.04.03 21:24:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: fkingfurious on 03/04/2011 21:26:17
This just wouldn't work.

There are too many ways that these anti-cyno ships could be used simply to ensure that a fleet would be unable to counter a hotdrop. Two fleets engage, Fleet A has Capitals and anti-cynos waiting at a titan. Fleet A primary the Anti-Cynos of fleet B (assuming they have them) and then jump in their own caps and anti cynos, light the anti-cyno beacons and wtfpwn everything in sight.

Grats, you've just made the hotdrop situation even worse.

And if simply jumping the caps onto a deifferent grid and then warping in is an effective counter to that then the module achieves basically nothing except allowing a smaller gang to run away leaving a stupidly expensive anti-cyno ship behind to die.


DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.03 21:47:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: DHB WildCat on 03/04/2011 21:47:13
So light your cyno in a safe less than 1 au from fight? Then warp into battle like the original hot drop had to?


The ship only AFFECTS the grid it is on!

fkingfurious
Posted - 2011.04.03 21:57:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: fkingfurious on 03/04/2011 22:03:21
Forcing Caps to come in offgrid and warp into the fight stacks the odds so far in favour of a capital fleet that is already setup that it will break so much more than it could possibly fix.

In 0.0 especially you can use warp disrupt bubbles to then further screw up the warp ins.

In your very narrow niche of "I want to go back to the days where i could fight totally outnumbered and still expect to win" I'm sure this thing seems like a great idea but the implications of it reach far further and would totally bugger up an already pretty screwed up system.

EDIT: It's all redundant anyway cos CCP have stated that "Force Projection" aka jump portals and hotdrops is high on their list of things to change. They hate the it works atm and fingers crossed they're gonna be inline for a nerf bat before too long.

Kastsumi Kobayariel
Posted - 2011.04.03 22:19:00 - [11]
 

Basically what fkingfurious said, not to mention grids are not something that is static. It's easy, if time consuming, to manipulate grids into stretching distances greater than the predefined idea of a 250km radius sphere as well as weird shapes.

The idea in itself isn't bad per se, it's that the implications of such a change or addition go a lot further than "boosting solo/small group pvp". Boost something for those people, then stop and wonder how a group of 1500 people will try to turn your mechanics change to their advantage.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.04.03 22:35:00 - [12]
 

Mobile cyno disruption on itself isnt a horrible idea imo, I was thinking this could be an interesting (lowsec) role for the light dictors.

Give them a cynosural field suppression probe, same range as their warp disrupt probes. This wouldnt affect large-scale capital fights much, but give the small gangs that are really really paranoid about hotdrops opportunity to sacrifice a few damage dealers for very localized cyno protection.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.03 22:43:00 - [13]
 

Most replies I have seen have been "lazy" ones.

The module only works on the grid its on.... zomg jump in somewhere else in cap fights and have spots to warp in on the grid of the fight.

I mean really the only thing this ship would do is help small gang pvp, it wont affect large scale cap fights other than maybe the cap having to wait another min for jump in, align, and warp to grid. And in a game with 10 min lag in those fights it wouldnt be a big deal!

Besides if you dont like em then kill em... I mean really stop being lazy. Nothing would be broke about them

Wild

Kastsumi Kobayariel
Posted - 2011.04.03 22:51:00 - [14]
 

I'm sorry I didn't you give you my endless support. I apologize for being lazy. Hopefully me saying your idea is the best ever and was never suggested and shot down in the past for reasons similar to those stated in this thread will make you see me as a good person despite my shortcomings.

Sincerely,
Me.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.04.03 22:57:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: DHB WildCat

The module only works on the grid its on.... zomg jump in somewhere else in cap fights and have spots to warp in on the grid of the fight.


The whole grid is too much really. Anything more than a 20km radius to just cover the ship you suspect to be opening the cyno would be way too much imo.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.03 23:25:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: DHB WildCat


I mean really the only thing this ship would do is help small gang pvp, it wont affect large scale cap fights other than maybe the cap having to wait another min for jump in, align, and warp to grid. And in a game with 10 min lag in those fights it wouldnt be a big deal!


It doesn't help small gang PvP one tiny bit because the person flying is absolutely useless for any other role (personally, the reason why small gang appeals so much to me is because EACH. PERSON. MATTERS). If somebody primaries your beloved anti cyno, you'll all run screaming from the grid as fast as possible, and in the scenario that you aren't going to be hotdropped (the majority of the time), it will die last, cold and alone.

To field it, somebody has to the be "*****" and take it for the team or somebody has to skill an alt for it. Not fun gameplay, either way.

It simply doesn't improve the game at all. The solution for hotdrops rests with jump spoolups or something else, not an alt in a ship going "LOLOLOLOL U CANT JUMP HERE BROHAM"

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.03 23:52:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: DHB WildCat


I mean really the only thing this ship would do is help small gang pvp, it wont affect large scale cap fights other than maybe the cap having to wait another min for jump in, align, and warp to grid. And in a game with 10 min lag in those fights it wouldnt be a big deal!


It doesn't help small gang PvP one tiny bit because the person flying is absolutely useless for any other role (personally, the reason why small gang appeals so much to me is because EACH. PERSON. MATTERS). If somebody primaries your beloved anti cyno, you'll all run screaming from the grid as fast as possible, and in the scenario that you aren't going to be hotdropped (the majority of the time), it will die last, cold and alone.

To field it, somebody has to the be "*****" and take it for the team or somebody has to skill an alt for it. Not fun gameplay, either way.

It simply doesn't improve the game at all. The solution for hotdrops rests with jump spoolups or something else, not an alt in a ship going "LOLOLOLOL U CANT JUMP HERE BROHAM"



Thats exactly right..
Thats its purpose. To give smaller gangs / fleets a chance to escape the "hotdrop". You dont have to field one. However maybe you do and it dies but your fleet gets away. maybe you dont but a cyno goes up right on your head and 20 Black ops / bombers come and kill your entire gang.... or maybe moms and titans come in to kill your entire fleet?

The purpose it to slow down capitals online.

If you guys dont believe capitals are a problem then I would understand your statements better, but I think you guys think capitals and "hotdrops" titan bridges are out of control too.

Wild

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.04 00:05:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: DHB WildCat


Thats exactly right..
Thats its purpose. To give smaller gangs / fleets a chance to escape the "hotdrop". You dont have to field one. However maybe you do and it dies but your fleet gets away. maybe you dont but a cyno goes up right on your head and 20 Black ops / bombers come and kill your entire gang.... or maybe moms and titans come in to kill your entire fleet?

The purpose it to slow down capitals online.

If you guys dont believe capitals are a problem then I would understand your statements better, but I think you guys think capitals and "hotdrops" titan bridges are out of control too.

Wild


The character in that ship does absolutely nothing else. Its not a ship for a person to fly, but somebody's alt. Assume you are in a small gang and only the FC is dual boxing a scout. You would have to lose a Recon, a logi or a DPS ship to have a buddy stare at the screen and push a button once. He's not going to have fun. Would you fly this ship if you only could bring one character on a roam?

Yes, cynos, bridging and hotdrops are a problem. Forcing everybody to bring useless alts to the battle isn't the solution. Something has to be done, maybe a timer to charge your jump drive, or some mechanic for the portal. Adding a ship to toss your POS gunner/cyno alt and warp to a battle at 100km is not the solution.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.04.04 00:50:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Originally by: DHB WildCat


Thats exactly right..
Thats its purpose. To give smaller gangs / fleets a chance to escape the "hotdrop". You dont have to field one. However maybe you do and it dies but your fleet gets away. maybe you dont but a cyno goes up right on your head and 20 Black ops / bombers come and kill your entire gang.... or maybe moms and titans come in to kill your entire fleet?

The purpose it to slow down capitals online.

If you guys dont believe capitals are a problem then I would understand your statements better, but I think you guys think capitals and "hotdrops" titan bridges are out of control too.

Wild


The character in that ship does absolutely nothing else. Its not a ship for a person to fly, but somebody's alt. Assume you are in a small gang and only the FC is dual boxing a scout. You would have to lose a Recon, a logi or a DPS ship to have a buddy stare at the screen and push a button once. He's not going to have fun. Would you fly this ship if you only could bring one character on a roam?

Yes, cynos, bridging and hotdrops are a problem. Forcing everybody to bring useless alts to the battle isn't the solution. Something has to be done, maybe a timer to charge your jump drive, or some mechanic for the portal. Adding a ship to toss your POS gunner/cyno alt and warp to a battle at 100km is not the solution.


Your arguement is that its an alt ship? Does nothing just takes up space. Okay so thats its role? Again you dont have to field one? Why hate on an intended role. You may not like it, but Im sure someone else would love to have a ship that will prevent incoming hotdrops.

I likegirls
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.04 01:32:00 - [20]
 

Worst idea I have heard all day...

Justin Cody
Caldari
T.A.L.O.N. Company
B4D W01F
Posted - 2011.04.04 04:19:00 - [21]
 

in general it already exists...except its called a "sniper ship" and can be used many times to insta-lock a cheap cyno ship and pop the offender before the capitals can come though. HIC's are another matter as are capitals with their own cynos.

ugh

Mufa Jaynara
Posted - 2011.04.04 04:35:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Mufa Jaynara on 04/04/2011 04:36:26
I like the idea to be honest, but it should only be a battleship sized ship then, as you said, not be able to recieve remote reps... and then I suggest one more thing... not be able to repair itself while in this "anti cyno mode" so it basicly just have a bunch of effective HP... and it has to be armor only :) (passive regen could potentially be op?)

Forcing the enemy fleet to either pop it or cyno in off grid would work fine, it doesn't break the game from my point of view, it just adds a extra layer of tactical gameplay

Chris Bailey
Posted - 2011.04.04 06:40:00 - [23]
 

Just use a remote sebo'd Titan with a DD

Knokploeg
Posted - 2011.04.04 06:50:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: DHB WildCat

The purpose it to slow down capitals online.

If you guys dont believe capitals are a problem then I would understand your statements better, but I think you guys think capitals and "hotdrops" titan bridges are out of control too.

Wild


2007 called. They want their game back. HTFU

This proposal is just as silly as the 'anti cloaking' ships that are requested from time to time.

Crellion
Parental Control
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.04.04 07:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Knokploeg
Originally by: DHB WildCat

The purpose it to slow down capitals online.

If you guys dont believe capitals are a problem then I would understand your statements better, but I think you guys think capitals and "hotdrops" titan bridges are out of control too.

Wild


2007 called. They want their game back. HTFU

This proposal is just as silly as the 'anti cloaking' ships that are requested from time to time.


Not taking sides on the particular suggestion but 2007 EvE was a vastly superior game to EvE as it is now... so getting it back should be high on everyone's list of priorities (gameplay wise)...


Cheque Norris
Posted - 2011.04.04 07:28:00 - [26]
 

Wait, we already have an anti-cyno ship. Okay, more of a gang than a ship, a few or more sniper Hurricane can instapop your cynoship before you can say "cyno up". And it is a features and ideas discussion, thx.

Knokploeg
Posted - 2011.04.04 07:43:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Crellion
Not taking sides on the particular suggestion but 2007 EvE was a vastly superior game to EvE as it is now... so getting it back should be high on everyone's list of priorities (gameplay wise)...




Sadly it doesn't work that way. If CCP hadn't made any changes to the game (except fixing lag) since 2007 then the bitter vet brigade would (rightfully) be complaining about a stagnant game.

A game developer needs to create new content to keep the player base interested. Once all niches are filled there is only one way out: moar power. Seen it happen to many wargames and RPGs as well.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.04 09:15:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 04/04/2011 09:27:36
Originally by: DHB WildCat


Your arguement is that its an alt ship? Does nothing just takes up space. Okay so thats its role? Again you dont have to field one? Why hate on an intended role. You may not like it, but Im sure someone else would love to have a ship that will prevent incoming hotdrops.


Trust me, its a terrible idea. Everybody would field multiple ones of these. You'd have them at gatecamps, sitting at 0 and at various spots on the grid. Anything larger than 5 people or the second you field a battleship, somebody has to bring his alt to sit in this ship.

You haven't answered my question. If you could only bring one ship and one character on a roam, would you fly this ship?

Originally by: Crellion


Not taking sides on the particular suggestion but 2007 EvE was a vastly superior game to EvE as it is now... so getting it back should be high on everyone's list of priorities (gameplay wise)...




Well, Early 2007... T2 was insanely expensive, the hulls were insanely expensive, meta 4 stuff was fairly expensive. Everybody fit NOS, everybody had nano battleships then nano HACs. You had the 14km/s invulnerable crows. I'm not sure when they nerfed it (around this time) but you had godly multispec ECM too. Literally every PvP ship had spare highs packed with NOS, and then a multispec or two in the mids.

You never felt the joy of a nano domi orbiting you at speeds faster than you can dream in the current game, instantly removing nearly all your cap and jamming you. Sure, its amazing if you are flying the Domi, not so much on the other end.

Loraine Gess
Posted - 2011.04.04 09:25:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Kastsumi Kobayariel
Basically what fkingfurious said, not to mention grids are not something that is static. It's easy, if time consuming, to manipulate grids into stretching distances greater than the predefined idea of a 250km radius sphere as well as weird shapes.

The idea in itself isn't bad per se, it's that the implications of such a change or addition go a lot further than "boosting solo/small group pvp". Boost something for those people, then stop and wonder how a group of 1500 people will try to turn your mechanics change to their advantage.



Grid manipulation is now a petitionable offense after goonswarm released their notes on it.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.04.04 11:39:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: dreamingtoday
I have an alternative idea how about a dedicated cyno ship for SC+Titan, this way at least not every ship on grid has the potential to field a cyno that can bring in a super-cap.

You could give it some silly bonus to ehp or resis once the cyno is lit


Fixed.


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