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Better Than You
Posted - 2011.04.03 05:23:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Better Than You on 05/04/2011 15:00:27
Currently if you have aggression you have to wait one minute to be able to dock or jump through a gate. This is working as intended.

What is not working is the bug of swapping immediately to another ship from a ship maintenance bay from an Orca.

A growing cancer in high sec is thieves stealing from wrecks presenting themselves as a target. This is fine as the pilot can see what they will be shooting you with if you attack them. That is until they bring in the ****ing Orca alt.

With this ship, and due to being able to hot swap to a completely ****ing different ship mid fight, they get the immediate upper hand with ease. Oh and God forbid you actually be able to take out their new ship because before that goes down, they just dock it back in the Orca for yet another ****ing ship. Start to take out that ship too and you guessed it, they put that one back in the Orca. Most likely for a shuttle to easily escape. The entire time your being bumped by the Orca who you can't shoot and unable to warp out because of the bumping.

How is this ****ing balanced?! The thief risks nothing and you risk everything. I propose a 1 minute aggression timer to keep people from swapping to a new ship.

EDIT: Removed my signature maroon color to not cause so much butt hurt.

Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
Posted - 2011.04.03 05:59:00 - [2]
 

I disagree with transferring aggression to the Orca, but I agree with a 1-minute timer on docking into a ship maintenance bay. I think CCP wanted to put that in and forgot about it.

P.S. what is this "Tue" you keep mentioning?

Better Than You
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:24:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Better Than You on 03/04/2011 07:25:24
Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim
I disagree with transferring aggression to the Orca, but I agree with a 1-minute timer on docking into a ship maintenance bay. I think CCP wanted to put that in and forgot about it.

P.S. what is this "Tue" you keep mentioning?


I took out the aggression transfer. The "Tue" was stupid text prediction on my phone.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.04.03 12:02:00 - [4]
 

please take the red out of your post so it can actually be read. I can't mock it if I can't read it.

Better Than You
Posted - 2011.04.03 12:33:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Danika Princip
please take the red out of your post so it can actually be read. I can't mock it if I can't read it.


It is my style of writing. If you don't like it then GTFO of my thread.

Awesome Possum
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2011.04.03 14:00:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
Edited by: Better Than You on 03/04/2011 07:22:26
Currently if you have aggression you have to wait one minute to be able to dock or jump through a gate. This is working as intended.

What is not working is the bug of swapping immediately to another ship from a ship maintenance bay from an Orca.

A growing cancer in high sec is thieves stealing from wrecks presenting themselves as a target. This is fine as the pilot can see what they will be shooting you with if you attack them. That is until they bring in the ****ing Orca alt.

With this ship, and due to being able to hot swap to a completely ****ing different ship mid fight, they get the immediate upper hand with ease. Oh and God forbid you actually be able to take out their new ship because before that goes down, they just dock it back in the Orca for yet another ****ing ship. Start to take out that ship too and you guessed it, they put that one back in the Orca. Most likely for a shuttle to easily escape. The entire time your being bumped by the Orca who you can't shoot and unable to warp out because of the bumping.

How is this ****ing balanced?! The thief risks nothing and you risk everything. I propose a 1 minute aggression timer to keep people from swapping to a new ship.



I would like to thank Suddenly Ninjas, Honorless Internet Jerks, and other hisec griefers for making umad, bro.

Also, every time that guy switches ships, he loses lock. Warp away?

Better Than You
Posted - 2011.04.03 14:53:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Better Than You on 03/04/2011 14:53:15
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Better Than You
Edited by: Better Than You on 03/04/2011 07:22:26
Currently if you have aggression you have to wait one minute to be able to dock or jump through a gate. This is working as intended.

What is not working is the bug of swapping immediately to another ship from a ship maintenance bay from an Orca.

A growing cancer in high sec is thieves stealing from wrecks presenting themselves as a target. This is fine as the pilot can see what they will be shooting you with if you attack them. That is until they bring in the ****ing Orca alt.

With this ship, and due to being able to hot swap to a completely ****ing different ship mid fight, they get the immediate upper hand with ease. Oh and God forbid you actually be able to take out their new ship because before that goes down, they just dock it back in the Orca for yet another ****ing ship. Start to take out that ship too and you guessed it, they put that one back in the Orca. Most likely for a shuttle to easily escape. The entire time your being bumped by the Orca who you can't shoot and unable to warp out because of the bumping.

How is this ****ing balanced?! The thief risks nothing and you risk everything. I propose a 1 minute aggression timer to keep people from swapping to a new ship.



I would like to thank Suddenly Ninjas, Honorless Internet Jerks, and other hisec griefers for making umad, bro.

Also, every time that guy switches ships, he loses lock. Warp away?


Why didn't I think about that? Oh yeah... BECAUSE THE ORCA IS CONSTANTLY BUMPING YOU ****ING IDIOT! You can't warp away!

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.03 14:58:00 - [8]
 

rt:dr

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe

Posted - 2011.04.04 00:40:00 - [9]
 

Supported - should not be able to repeatedly switch ships during combat to keep fresh ships in the fight.
More than that, Orca should get the aggression flag so it can be fired upon. You don't get to help in a fight without being attackable.

KlintortheDestroyer
Posted - 2011.04.04 04:54:00 - [10]
 

i agree with shandir

orcas and healers should all recieve aggression for aiding attackers

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.04.04 05:19:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 04/04/2011 05:19:54
emo-rage fail post is fail post.

Make sure your post is legible if you ever hope to be treated with any amount of respect.

Can't solve everything in life with a red crayon.

Sad thing is I happen to agree with your complaint.
But I'd rather it see it come from someone more respectable.
Not supporting.

Awesome Possum
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2011.04.04 06:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
Edited by: Better Than You on 03/04/2011 14:53:15
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Better Than You
Edited by: Better Than You on 03/04/2011 07:22:26
Currently if you have aggression you have to wait one minute to be able to dock or jump through a gate. This is working as intended.

What is not working is the bug of swapping immediately to another ship from a ship maintenance bay from an Orca.

A growing cancer in high sec is thieves stealing from wrecks presenting themselves as a target. This is fine as the pilot can see what they will be shooting you with if you attack them. That is until they bring in the ****ing Orca alt.

With this ship, and due to being able to hot swap to a completely ****ing different ship mid fight, they get the immediate upper hand with ease. Oh and God forbid you actually be able to take out their new ship because before that goes down, they just dock it back in the Orca for yet another ****ing ship. Start to take out that ship too and you guessed it, they put that one back in the Orca. Most likely for a shuttle to easily escape. The entire time your being bumped by the Orca who you can't shoot and unable to warp out because of the bumping.

How is this ****ing balanced?! The thief risks nothing and you risk everything. I propose a 1 minute aggression timer to keep people from swapping to a new ship.



I would like to thank Suddenly Ninjas, Honorless Internet Jerks, and other hisec griefers for making umad, bro.

Also, every time that guy switches ships, he loses lock. Warp away?


Why didn't I think about that? Oh yeah... BECAUSE THE ORCA IS CONSTANTLY BUMPING YOU ****ING IDIOT! You can't warp away!


Orca goes 75m/s.... Here's an idea, don't shoot at salvage frigates unless you're willing to take the risk that you will die.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:27:00 - [13]
 

Despite the red text, supporting.

Terrible post but the OP is still pointing at a significant issue.

Maybe link the crimal flag with the hull along with the pilot. Orca is holding a criminal ship, well its complicit in the crime.

If you were to shoot some guy on the street, and throw your gun in the gutter, its still relevant to the crime.


Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.04.04 18:28:00 - [14]
 

If the Orca can bump you so that you can't warp out, you need to find a game more suited to your abilities.

MNagy
Posted - 2011.04.04 18:38:00 - [15]
 

I have to say I agree with the orca proposal.

If you are engaged in combat - and flip out ships from the orca. The orca should be agro'd as well.


Jaik7
Posted - 2011.04.04 19:42:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Jaik7 on 04/04/2011 19:41:55
anyone who supports any aggresive action should be flagged as a target.

concord kills nuetral rr guys, so why can't we?

Better Than You
Posted - 2011.04.04 20:00:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Awesome Possum
Orca goes 75m/s


[Orca, bumping]
Domination Nanofiber Structure
Domination Overdrive Injector

Republic Fleet 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I

This Orca goes 550 m/s when getting its skirmish bonuses and with snake set. Faster than a battleship most of the time. You were saying?


Jerika Bodet
Posted - 2011.04.04 23:15:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Drake Draconis
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 04/04/2011 05:19:54
emo-rage fail post is fail post.

Make sure your post is legible if you ever hope to be treated with any amount of respect.

Can't solve everything in life with a red crayon.

Sad thing is I happen to agree with your complaint.
But I'd rather it see it come from someone more respectable.
Not supporting.


Awe, don't be like that. Yes, it's an Emo Rage and it's in red crayon, but it's a very valid rage. You're Supporting the idea here, not the player.

This is a complete oversight on CCP's part, intentional or not. At least with RR, you can go after the rep ship. The Orca is harboring a criminal ship and should get flagged. At the very least, prevent any kind of dock with a 60 sec timer... Although that wouldn't make as much sense since the Orca is Player owned. Getting flagged would be more appropriate as it's the players decision not an NPC refusal due to aggression. Flag the Orca and then they can flip ships all they want.

Btw, I had some guys attempt this on me and my previous corp. Fortunately I have lots of friends and they failed miserably, but they were able to both dock their ships and pod out. It's a plain cheap tactic that CCP needs to fix correctly.

Supported

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.04.05 02:46:00 - [19]
 

Even though I cannot stamd the red (Sad), I support the concept of the OP.

BattleSister Oryx
Posted - 2011.04.05 07:07:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: BattleSister Oryx on 05/04/2011 07:07:49
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Despite the red text, supporting.

Terrible post but the OP is still pointing at a significant issue.

Maybe link the crimal flag with the hull along with the pilot. Orca is holding a criminal ship, well its complicit in the crime.

If you were to shoot some guy on the street, and throw your gun in the gutter, its still relevant to the crime.




wow seriously, ccp wordfilters

vOv sure, ill support this, it seems rather dumb

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain

Posted - 2011.04.05 14:32:00 - [21]
 

.

Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Posted - 2011.04.05 14:59:00 - [22]
 

supported

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous

Posted - 2011.04.05 15:33:00 - [23]
 

It's a problem in low/null sec too. Station hugging carrier RR's a camper, if it can't keep the camper alive he docks into carrier, hops in a shuttle and warps off. Carrier simply docks if any threat to it is made. Lukka has been doing this for months. There is absolutely no counter to it, the best you can hope for is to survive (which isn't that hard tbh). Lukka aptly named his carrier alt's thanny "risk free pvp." Of course, he isn't the only one doing it. I did it once just to try it out and yes, it is cheating by any definition. Sadly the GM's at CCP are not responding to repeated exploit petitions on the issue.

In any case, there are a few solutions:

1) You cannot dock a ship inside a ship maintenance bay while under attack.

2) Normal aggro rules apply, you can't dock within 60s of an aggressive act.

3) Docking in another ship transfers 15min player/corp aggro to that ship and adds a 60s aggressive action timer to them as well (can't dock/jump).


Awesome Possum
Original Sin.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2011.04.05 15:47:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Orca goes 75m/s


[Orca, bumping]
Domination Nanofiber Structure
Domination Overdrive Injector

Republic Fleet 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I

This Orca goes 550 m/s when getting its skirmish bonuses and with snake set. Faster than a battleship most of the time. You were saying?




My Domi with 3x trimarks goes 750m/s Rolling Eyes

Let's reiterate. You thought you'd be a bamf and shoot at a little frigate that went red. Frig scrams your butt and you fail to drive him off with drones. Orca warps in and frig switches to something bigger.. you suck too much to warp off while nothing is pointing you. New ship blows you up. You lose at carebear pvp. Obvious answer is to come to forums and demand changes to game mechanics because you're too stupid to do the obvious: DON'T SHOOT AT THE OBVIOUS BAIT.

Is that about right?


Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.04.05 16:41:00 - [25]
 

+1 internets for using white text. :)

I was starting to think you had a grudge with the color blind.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.04.05 16:54:00 - [26]
 

Thank you so much. This is gonna be the best thing that happened to highsec warfare. Must exploit asap. Get it while it's still hot.Very Happy

Jones Bones
Burning Napalm
Posted - 2011.04.06 00:57:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
I did it once just to try it out and yes, it is cheating by any definition.


Whose definition?

Quote:
Docking in another ship transfers 15min player/corp aggro to that ship and adds a 60s aggressive action timer to them as well (can't dock/jump).


PLEASE DO THIS. I'll stick a carrier in NPC corps so I can get 15mins of free aggression as often as I want.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.06 01:22:00 - [28]
 

Your reading comprehension fails jones. I didn't say the person docking into the carrier or the carrier get kill rights on anyone, I'm saying everyone aggressed to the docking ship suddenly has 15 minute kill rights on the carrier too. That said, it's the most complicated of the options, the first two simpler methods are better I think.

As for cheating, it's an exploit because it's doing something with game mechanics that were not intended. It is cheating because it renders you completely impervious to counter attack. You attack targets at will, get into trouble, instantly dock and there isn't anything anyone can do about it. It's no different than if you found a way to glitch a cloaking device so you could lock and attack while remaining cloaked.

Renak11
Posted - 2011.04.06 03:24:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
As for cheating, it's an exploit because it's doing something with game mechanics that were not intended. It is cheating because it renders you completely impervious to counter attack. You attack targets at will, get into trouble, instantly dock and there isn't anything anyone can do about it. It's no different than if you found a way to glitch a cloaking device so you could lock and attack while remaining cloaked.


based upon how you've (the 'you' is important here) defined exploit, i'd say the reason ccp hasn't been responding to your petitions is because they define 'exploit' quite differently. if this really was an exploit per the ccp definition, the people that have been doing this since carriers were released over 5 years ago would have long since been banned and the 'exploit' fixed. just because you disagree with it, don't believe it makes for 'fair play' (fair play in eve, of all things), or can't find a counter to it (of which there are several) does not make it an exploit.

want to know what real exploiting looks like? leave fw and go to 0.0.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:15:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Renak11
Originally by: King Rothgar
As for cheating, it's an exploit because it's doing something with game mechanics that were not intended. It is cheating because it renders you completely impervious to counter attack. You attack targets at will, get into trouble, instantly dock and there isn't anything anyone can do about it. It's no different than if you found a way to glitch a cloaking device so you could lock and attack while remaining cloaked.


based upon how you've (the 'you' is important here) defined exploit, i'd say the reason ccp hasn't been responding to your petitions is because they define 'exploit' quite differently. if this really was an exploit per the ccp definition, the people that have been doing this since carriers were released over 5 years ago would have long since been banned and the 'exploit' fixed. just because you disagree with it, don't believe it makes for 'fair play' (fair play in eve, of all things), or can't find a counter to it (of which there are several) does not make it an exploit.

want to know what real exploiting looks like? leave fw and go to 0.0.


The last big exploit I remember reading about was in WH space. People were getting perfect turrets (AC that hit for full damage at 249km).

Before that it was Pandemic Legion cheating with local hacks or some crap involving a monkey.

The largest one I cam remember occuring was the Free moon goo exploit that went on for years.

Before that, the whole t20 tinfoil, preferential drops and insider information on game mechanics.

As for the hot swapping of ships using a CHA, its not an exploit, its just bad game design. It was bad in lowsec, but there was always a slim chance you could bump the carrier off station, or just don't pvp on stations.

The ability of the orca to project this limp wristed tactic into empire while hiding under concord's skirt is terrible.


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