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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.05 11:24:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 05/04/2011 12:27:50
Originally by: Harpalyce Dynameos
Grinding is grinding and grinding = lame. And I agree lvl 4 is sufficient, lvl 5 is all about maximizing gains.

Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
Not at all, NOT having to grind like mad to gain skills is something a lot of us are REALLY happy about and frankly the biggest reason i play this game.

Well what the grinding argument is concerned: define grinding? How do you not grind in EVE?

For instance mining or mission running. We all need to grind our standings to get access to higher lvl agents. If you PvP you have to grind your sec status if you want to have access to highsec. If you want faction stuff you grind LP. If you do WHs you grind ores and sleepers. PI is a repetitious boring activity that no-one in his/her right mind would do if it wasn't profitable. Let alone transporting stuff across 25 systems. Explain to me how all this is not grinding?

The fact that XP/SP acquisition rate isn't connected to it doesn't make it more or less a grind. I don't really see the difference between EVE and most other games, except that you don't get XP for your repetitious activities in EVE. And in games like Guild Wars you can get max level in a weekend.

Next to that I still wonder what's the "great thing" about extreme slow levelling. What's actually against it to have people skill up a bit faster so they can fly more ships and fit them better and can fulfill more roles?

Vanlade
Amarr
Cruor Aquila
Posted - 2011.04.05 15:20:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
I would say up with SP, give us level 6 skills Laughing


Please, I would have to train all my skills to level 6.

Ganoc
Posted - 2011.04.05 17:06:00 - [33]
 

I used to have the same opinions as the OP. When I was in high-school, I cursed how slow EVE was at times with regards to skilling up. Anything more than 3-4 days would make me so mad. Now that I am in college however, and have to juggle alot more work, its become a blessing. I can stick a 12 day skill in the queue and not have to worry about it. Unlike WoW or other MMOs where you fall behind if you cant log on due to other responsibilities. That might explain why older people seem to play EVE, its the only MMO on the market that allows you to do what you want, and play on your schedule. I guess what Im saying is try thinking of this from someone elses point of view.
Cheers

Harpalyce Dynameos
Posted - 2011.04.05 17:20:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 05/04/2011 12:27:50
Well what the grinding argument is concerned: define grinding? How do you not grind in EVE?

For instance mining or mission running.

Monetary gain, invalid, not societal "xp" related

Quote:
We all need to grind our standings to get access to higher lvl agents.

Only if you're heavy into missions, again invalid, for monetary gain

Quote:
If you PvP you have to grind your sec status if you want to have access to highsec.

I'll accept it, only because people have some belief they have to have access to empire

Quote:
If you want faction stuff you grind LP.

For monetary gain again, if not, then merely for bling/edge factor accepted

Quote:
If you do WHs you grind ores and sleepers.

Monetary/technological gain

Quote:
PI is a repetitious boring activity that no-one in his/her right mind would do if it wasn't profitable. Let alone transporting stuff across 25 systems.

Only if you partake in these activities, again monetary gain

Quote:
Explain to me how all this is not grinding?

The fact that XP/SP acquisition rate isn't connected to it doesn't make it more or less a grind.

But now it's not a requirement now is it? It is however a basic requirement in many other games to partake in the Skinner box to get your perceived rewards

Quote:
I don't really see the difference between EVE and most other games, except that you don't get XP for your repetitious activities in EVE. And in games like Guild Wars you can get max level in a weekend.

Yeah that's a problem... no sense of achievement, other than you wasted 48-72 hours in their Skinner box

Quote:
Next to that I still wonder what's the "great thing" about extreme slow levelling. What's actually against it to have people skill up a bit faster so they can fly more ships and fit them better and can fulfill more roles?

Because other games spoon feed you to think the end-game is all that matters? EVE is alive and players always learn and grow? But I'm just pulling your tail, splitting hairs, and absurdly defining things, gotta defend my baby.

Originally by: Missy Sasha
You can play the game without actually playing the game!

Everquest is that way Arrow

slatybartfas Arbosa
Posted - 2011.04.05 17:37:00 - [35]
 

Do not be afraid to ask someone to help you find what your looking for. Laughing


Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.05 18:44:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 05/04/2011 18:46:56
Originally by: Harpalyce Dynameos

Monetary gain, invalid, not societal "xp" related
Only if you're heavy into missions, again invalid, for monetary gain
I'll accept it, only because people have some belief they have to have access to empire
For monetary gain again, if not, then merely for bling/edge factor accepted
Monetary/technological gain
Only if you partake in these activities, again monetary gain


Not sure if I understand you .. if something is done for a sense of monetary, technological gain it's suddenly not grind - by definition?! And if you add xp to that gain it's grind by definition?

Quote:
But now it's not a requirement now is it? It is however a basic requirement in many other games to partake in the Skinner box to get your perceived rewards .. you wasted 48-72 hours in their Skinner box

I won't deny that most or all other games have a far more linear gameplay. But that doesn't prove or disprove the fact that there's just as much grind in EVE, grind as defined as "a repetitious not very exciting action you wouldn't do if there wasn't any extrinsic reward for doing it".

Quote:
Yeah that's a problem... no sense of achievement

Why do you equal SP acquisition with achievement? In my opinion if there's something that isn't an achievement it's SP acquisition as the only thing you do for it is paying subscription.
Doing special or hard or difficult things are achievements. Filling your skillqueue for years isn't.

Originally by: Harpalyce Dynameos
Quote:
Next to that I still wonder what's the "great thing" about extreme slow levelling. What's actually against it to have people skill up a bit faster so they can fly more ships and fit them better and can fulfill more roles?

Because other games spoon feed you to think the end-game is all that matters? EVE is alive and players always learn and grow? But I'm just pulling your tail, splitting hairs, and absurdly defining things, gotta defend my baby.
Yes I guess so ... Razz

Harpalyce Dynameos
Posted - 2011.04.05 18:50:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Harpalyce Dynameos on 05/04/2011 18:50:45
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 05/04/2011 18:46:56

Quote:
Yeah that's a problem... no sense of achievement

Why do you equal SP acquisition with achievement? In my opinion if there's something that isn't an achievement it's SP acquisition as the only thing you do for it is paying subscription.
Doing special or hard or difficult things are achievements. Filling your skillqueue for years isn't.


This is the most valid of my asinine arguments. I never said SP had anything to do with achieving anything. But if you can literally hit the ceiling of a game within a weekend, there is no difficulty, no obstacles, nothing that makes worth it other than going "oh now I can has cool armors"

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.05 19:14:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 05/04/2011 19:27:46
Originally by: Harpalyce Dynameos
I never said SP had anything to do with achieving anything. But if you can literally hit the ceiling of a game within a weekend, there is no difficulty, no obstacles, nothing that makes worth it other than going "oh now I can has cool armors"

My apologies for that then, glad that we at least agree on that part! Well why not make it faster then if "it hasn't got anything to do with achieveing anything" anyway?

Reaching a cap shouldn't be that important imo, it's what you can do what which is available to you. And the option for that are far bigger and more fun if you're more versatile and not crippled by your lack of SP.

Anyway even if you can fly all the ships in EVE or wear stuff or use skills or craft stuff in other games it doesn't mean you're done. Look at DAoC, where you had territorial warfare or tournaments in GW that opened up areas for your faction or where you could have access to outposts. But even pretty vanity gear is something you could want, what does it matter as long as it's fun? Why is occupying 0.0 and blob warfare necessarily better?

Sometimes I think it would have been better if CCP just let the combat ships stop at battleships and make that the artificial level cap where you only could develop sideways to get more versatile and experience more race's ships and EW skills but not further up and up all the time.

Almost like CCP is afraid that when people reach the "ship level cap" they'd quit because the game content isn't that exciting anymore? A good game doesn't need an endless slow SP queue, it needs ways to face challenges and allowing people to have tools to overcome those.

Harpalyce Dynameos
Posted - 2011.04.05 19:36:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Harpalyce Dynameos on 05/04/2011 19:36:33
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 05/04/2011 19:27:46
Originally by: Harpalyce Dynameos
I never said SP had anything to do with achieving anything. But if you can literally hit the ceiling of a game within a weekend, there is no difficulty, no obstacles, nothing that makes worth it other than going "oh now I can has cool armors"

My apologies for that then, glad that we at least agree on that part! Well why not make it faster then if "it hasn't got anything to do with achieveing anything" anyway?


They did, they removed learning skills, people that could never be bothered with learning the tier 2 skills to max got a free speed boost, everyone that did, got a slight gimp. Plus there is always the whole controversy of if it actually ever was a game feature of being able to continue progressing SP-wise while your account was inactive! Doesn't help the game that plays itself view.

Quote:
Sometimes I think it would have been better if CCP just let the combat ships stop at battleships and make that the artificial level cap where you only could develop sideways to get more versatile and experience more race's ships and EW skills but not further up and up all the time.

Almost like CCP is afraid that when people reach the "ship level cap" they'd quit because the game content isn't that exciting anymore? A good game doesn't need an endless slow SP queue, it needs ways to face challenges and allowing people to have tools to overcome those.



Again they did, or had done or whatever, or so I've read. The huge cap ship stuff had come later, maybe due to their perceived "ship level cap" or "realism" for support ships assisting larger vessels like they do now. At least when I started I never took any of what CCP offers as a cap, merely a huge road map where the player can pick and choose what they want, be it using your time to get that last ounce out of a level 5 or go horizontal and learn some support skills. lol I never had much of an argument I lose ugh

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.05 20:18:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Harpalyce Dynameos
8< snip >8

This is funny, thanks for that! ^^

Dr Richard Dawkins
Posted - 2011.04.05 22:06:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Sometimes I think it would have been better if CCP just let the combat ships stop at battleships and make that the artificial level cap where you only could develop sideways to get more versatile and experience more race's ships and EW skills but not further up and up all the time.

Almost like CCP is afraid that when people reach the "ship level cap" they'd quit because the game content isn't that exciting anymore? A good game doesn't need an endless slow SP queue, it needs ways to face challenges and allowing people to have tools to overcome those.



Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint) that's essentially the case if you're referring to hull size. Capital ships, while major game-changers, aren't the kind of thing the average player will ever want to bother with simply because of the tedium involved and the narrow usages they allow for. Super-carriers currently break this mold a bit (being quite effective against battleships), but on the whole most players will find subcaps provide all the ship needs they might have.

The issues of sov. and supercaps is relatively tanget, all things considered. If they're fixed, great, every capital and supercap have a use in fleet. If not, well, that's one very limited portion of the game that's got a mega-high ceiling of skillpoints. I don't see that as an immidiate threat to the game and it's fairly doubtful that it will ever be unless the majority of the population decided they really wanted to live in sov. null.

The endless skill queue isn't so much a challenge to overcome as a series of choices to define your character. Were you to have a much faster skill progression rate or the ability to train up as many characters as you like, that would significantly cheapen the journey. It's perfectly understandable to bemoan this when you're fickle and want to fly another race (espcially with CCP being fairly slow to rebalance obvious outliers such as minmatar ships, angel cartel ships, etc.) or if you chose a lot of skills early on that you really didn't end up wanting in the long-run. Fortunately there is a solution to this in the character bazaar. It's not perfect and you do loose that unique "I made this," feeling from your very own creation, but you do have the opportunity to both sell your unwanted character off and look to puchase one with similar skillpoints (or more, depending on how wealthy you've become) that are allocated more to your tastes.

TL:DR; The avenues are there to alleviate some, if not most, of the issues you're pointing out.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.06 04:45:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Dr Richard Dawkins
The issues of sov. and supercaps is relatively tanget, all things considered. If they're fixed, great, every capital and supercap have a use in fleet. If not, well, that's one very limited portion of the game that's got a mega-high ceiling of skillpoints. I don't see that as an immidiate threat to the game and it's fairly doubtful that it will ever be unless the majority of the population decided they really wanted to live in sov. null.

But aren't we switching cause and effect here, what's the use even trying to do anything in null because of the endless cap fleets owned by 3+ year old players?

Quote:
The endless skill queue isn't so much a challenge to overcome as a series of choices to define your character. Were you to have a much faster skill progression rate or the ability to train up as many characters as you like, that would significantly cheapen the journey.

"Cheapen" as in rl money you pay to subscribe for 2+ years if you want to fly a decent and versatile range of subcapital ships on just 1 character?
For a game I find 2+ years extremely long, it's ridiculous. This isn't university.
Next to that, the journey shouldn't consist out of waiting for skills to finish (after all you don't really learn or experience anything from that) but out of experiencing the diverse aspects of the game and getting to know the ships by flying them.

Quote:
Fortunately there is a solution to this in the character bazaar. It's not perfect and you do loose that unique "I made this," feeling from your very own creation.

I basically find a character bazaar unacceptable. Firstly it takes away the RPG part from MMORPG and secondly it's basically legal cheating for a lot of RL money with some profit for CCP in it. If something is un-immersive it's "buying a character". RP wise CCP may as well sell SP for $ ("time flux, suddenly you're 3 months ahead"), at least you keep your character.

Zan Shiro
Posted - 2011.04.06 05:47:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
I basically find a character bazaar unacceptable. Firstly it takes away the RPG part from MMORPG and secondly it's basically legal cheating for a lot of RL money with some profit for CCP in it. If something is un-immersive it's "buying a character". RP wise CCP may as well sell SP for $ ("time flux, suddenly you're 3 months ahead"), at least you keep your character.



if using rl money....they are doing it wrong. Friend worked up to mommies. Ship, skills and fittings paid for from isk earned in game. baby sitter for the mommie...no rl money involved as well.

Also most bought chars I have seen make the game actually harder on themselves at first. Saw it in pvp...guys lied, said chars not bought. Go out on ops/roams....expensive ass rookie mistakes in recons and such. WTF fits as well to show yes eve said they could fly the ship....but that they didn't know what the hell they were doing in the ship. Not an uber pvp god by any means...but I try to not make the same mistake twice. And the first mistakes were made usually in really cheap t1 trash rides or something as expensive as an inty as I came up the ranks lol.

Bought chars are not an I win button in eve. Even for pve....almost lost a tengu and a cnr in thier maiden flights because of idiot mistakes I at least had the experience to recover from. If I had bought the tengu pilot as well as the tengu if motivated too with rl money....would almost gurantee I would have lost them.


Dodgy Past
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.06 09:51:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Dodgy Past on 06/04/2011 09:55:11
Has been my experience.

0-10m SP: - Was discovering the game, got into wormholes fairly early, generally awed at the scope of the game.
10-15m SP: - This was probably the time I played the least and was most frustrated, too little specialisation meant that while I was doing well for PvE I really wasn't able to PvP at all effectively, yet had decided I wanted to. When I did play I was stock piling isk.
15m-25m SP: - At 15m SP was able to fly a couple of proper PvP ships ( T2 guns on harbinger and Interceptors ). Started having a lot more fun, went out to null and started learning to PvP, trained t2 large lasers, HACs, Recons.
25m+ SP : - Moved into a quality PvP corp, went back and spent a load of time improving supports, cross trained as when I've wanted and generally not had to worry too much.

The only period I found that I was truly limited was 10-15m SP the rest of the time I've had the SP to be able to do stuff that makes me a better player in terms of player skill. Personally I think people spend way too much time worrying about SP and new toys rather than on improving their own abilities as players.

lordlulzs
Posted - 2011.04.06 14:37:00 - [45]
 

I guess EvE training times aren't so bad, cause its fr..

ok I can't finish it, Im sorry. Laughing

Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari
Elder Tribes
Posted - 2011.04.06 17:19:00 - [46]
 

I've been subscribed for more than a year with 3 accounts. All other MMOs keep me busy because I reach "cap" in a month tops. That's why.

Dr Richard Dawkins
Posted - 2011.04.06 18:47:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Dr Richard Dawkins on 06/04/2011 18:48:21

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Dr Richard Dawkins
The issues of sov. and supercaps is relatively tanget, all things considered. If they're fixed, great, every capital and supercap have a use in fleet. If not, well, that's one very limited portion of the game that's got a mega-high ceiling of skillpoints. I don't see that as an immidiate threat to the game and it's fairly doubtful that it will ever be unless the majority of the population decided they really wanted to live in sov. null.

But aren't we switching cause and effect here, what's the use even trying to do anything in null because of the endless cap fleets owned by 3+ year old players?


I never stated a reason. It was hypothetical.

Originally by: Jennifer Starling

I basically find a character bazaar unacceptable. Firstly it takes away the RPG part from MMORPG and secondly it's basically legal cheating for a lot of RL money with some profit for CCP in it. If something is un-immersive it's "buying a character". RP wise CCP may as well sell SP for $ ("time flux, suddenly you're 3 months ahead"), at least you keep your character.



Irl money need not exchange hands as you can do all character transaction with ISK now. In case your'e unaware you can get 2x PLEX (from the market, in-game) to transfer a character (selling your character) and obviously you send ISK to the character you buy on the bazaar. I mean, if ISK is such a small part of the equation compared to skill points: your hypothesis; then why not just go out there and grind isk like you would experience in some other game?

You seem to want an input time = skill reward and i'm saying YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN GET THAT from the bazaar with nothing more than isk you earned in-game.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:25:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dr Richard Dawkins
You seem to want an input time = skill reward and i'm saying YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN GET THAT from the bazaar with nothing more than isk you earned in-game.

But I don't want a second hand body, who knows what the previous owner has done with it .. yukkie! -.-


Dr Richard Dawkins
Posted - 2011.04.06 21:31:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Dr Richard Dawkins
You seem to want an input time = skill reward and i'm saying YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN GET THAT from the bazaar with nothing more than isk you earned in-game.

But I don't want a second hand body, who knows what the previous owner has done with it .. yukkie! -.-



Rolling Eyes

AstarothPrime
Posted - 2011.04.07 12:39:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling


For instance mining or mission running.
Mining = socializing or botting. All our corp miners are talkative bunch, and u can do that far less while pew pewing.

We all need to grind our standings to get access to higher lvl agents.
Or train proper skill. Some grinding is neccessary for the most advanced agents but hey.

If you PvP you have to grind your sec status if you want to have access to highsec.
Do come down to 0sec a little and do some PROPER pvp. Camping unsuspecing noobs who dont actually know where they are going / what they are doing in losec is just shameful.

If you want faction stuff you grind LP.
Or you kill some rats / scan down some anoms preferably in 0sec.

If you do WHs you grind ores and sleepers.
WHs - specially higher ones are more a challenge then grind. You can die there pretty damn easy.

PI is a repetitious boring activity that no-one in his/her right mind would do if it wasn't profitable.
Aint anymore.


The fact that XP/SP acquisition rate isn't connected to it doesn't make it more or less a grind. I don't really see the difference between EVE and most other games, except that you don't get XP for your repetitious activities in EVE. And in games like Guild Wars you can get max level in a weekend.

Next to that I still wonder what's the "great thing" about extreme slow levelling. What's actually against it to have people skill up a bit faster so they can fly more ships and fit them better and can fulfill more roles?



No sure if not troll but, there, my comments are in bold underline.

Regards

I.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.04.07 14:28:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 07/04/2011 14:36:03
Originally by: AstarothPrime
Mining = socializing or botting. All our corp miners are talkative bunch, and u can do that far less while pew pewing.
Or train proper skill. Some grinding is neccessary for the most advanced agents but hey.
Do come down to 0sec a little and do some PROPER pvp. Camping unsuspecing noobs who dont actually know where they are going / what they are doing in losec is just shameful.
Or you kill some rats / scan down some anoms preferably in 0sec.


Well the fact that there's alternatives to some grinding activities, saying "but hey" or that you can combine it with social interaction (or being afk) still doesn't mean there's no grind in EVE. You disproved nothing.

Anyway fyi: I have nothing against some grinding, I just think it's a ridiculous idea that there would be any mmorpg without it and advertising EVE as such is even far more unrealistic as saying you can play exciting 5,000 vs 5,000 fleet battles.

And in other games, what exactly is so grindy about that if you can combine a lot of activities with socializing (after all you usually have a lot of multiplayer PvE content in the average PvE so then it's not grind anymore?) and levelling to max level usually doesn't involve doing anything more than once.

Savalt
Posted - 2011.05.13 00:46:00 - [52]
 

As others have stated, I think this is an argument about "active" grinding and "passive" grinding. If you have twelve hours a day to kill, this probably isn't what you're looking for since you will soon realize that you gain no advantage for it. If however you only have a short amount of time, the SP system works great. You can skill-up while still having a life. You don't need to spend 8-12 hours a day to be competitive in any aspect of the game. Which was an intelligent design on their part since most of the players seem like they have been around for ages. That's the point in an MMO. The company wants money and in order to do that they need to keep you around as long as possible, and I want something that keeps me entertained. I think they did this perfectly (This is just my opinion, obviously yours will differ.).

I can see where this would really **** off "hardcore" gamers that want their in-game time to count for something. But, the simple fact is if that's your view, it's very clear that EVE isn't the game for you. Whether you have 1 hour a day or 16 to play, you're going to be on the same level as others. I can see the appeal and love the game for this as a "casual" gamer.

As far as putting years into the game and still not being able to fly certain ships, that isn't the fault of the devs. It's yours for not anticipating what it is that you want from the game. Other games have you choose a mage or fighter type in the beginning to let you know your role. EVE just makes that process a bit more complicated and compounds that issue by only allowing one character to skill up per account. You will never be able to do everything with your character, the same way a fighter archetype would not be able to do everything in any (Of the ones I can think of at least) MMORPG.

Leekana
Gallente
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:16:00 - [53]
 

Sure it takes a while to train some skills to level 5, and when you think about it a 26 day skill is $12.30-$13 dollars. But at least I get to keep that skill. It isn't replaced with a buff or nerf every time an expansion rolls out. And it isn't effected by the gear I tried to loot off a boss that cost me $15 dollars anyways because of RNG. So complain all you want, but when it comes down to it. It is the most rewarding exp/skill/leveling system of any mmo I have ever played.

Zan Shiro
Posted - 2011.05.13 04:27:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Savalt
I can see where this would really **** off "hardcore" gamers that want their in-game time to count for something. But, the simple fact is if that's your view, it's very clear that EVE isn't the game for you. Whether you have 1 hour a day or 16 to play, you're going to be on the same level as others. I can see the appeal and love the game for this as a "casual" gamer.


not the only one...I and many I know like eve for this feature. Eve time comes after work, then family/dinner time, kids bath time and putting them off to bed for me and many players I know.

Works out for the single types too....hot date lind up friday night, game train keeps on trucking. Go and work on your rl social skills and maybe find something else better to grind for the night lol.



Orlacc
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:42:00 - [55]
 

Please note that OP has not re-posted.

Merdina Merdan
Posted - 2011.05.14 16:08:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Dodgy Past
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 06/04/2011 09:55:11
Has been my experience.

0-10m SP: - Was discovering the game, got into wormholes fairly early, generally awed at the scope of the game.
10-15m SP: - This was probably the time I played the least and was most frustrated, too little specialisation meant that while I was doing well for PvE I really wasn't able to PvP at all effectively, yet had decided I wanted to. When I did play I was stock piling isk.
15m-25m SP: - At 15m SP was able to fly a couple of proper PvP ships ( T2 guns on harbinger and Interceptors ). Started having a lot more fun, went out to null and started learning to PvP, trained t2 large lasers, HACs, Recons.
25m+ SP : - Moved into a quality PvP corp, went back and spent a load of time improving supports, cross trained as when I've wanted and generally not had to worry too much.

The only period I found that I was truly limited was 10-15m SP the rest of the time I've had the SP to be able to do stuff that makes me a better player in terms of player skill. Personally I think people spend way too much time worrying about SP and new toys rather than on improving their own abilities as players.


That post is soo true, this Character is just about to come out of the 10-15M range and recently the game has started to become a lot more fun because of various skills i finished. (Amarr/Minmatar Cruiser V, T2 guns among other things)

Laurent Savard
Posted - 2011.05.18 21:09:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: lordlulzs
Edited by: lordlulzs on 04/04/2011 18:38:00
So what?

You control the rate at which you grind, if you want some really bad ass hull or weapon in BP you can get it as fast or slow as you want.

Thats what a lot of people want, and if you don't like that; "Lol, newb go back to Eve" and "lol, eve is that way" statements apply to you.

yea I totally wanna wait 1+ month for something in eve when I could grind for something similar in under 3-4 days in BP.

yea thats totally better, and better yet, why not I pay real life money to wait 2!!

CCP have so many of you under their thumbs, your egos won't even let you see it. :p


You are comparing apples to oranges just because they both have a spaceship theme.

Eve is a sandbox game where choices and time are more important issues than arcade pew pew.

All of the science and construction skills, etc. How would the economy of Eve work with a classic MMO style system of "throw 6 components in a box and click combine, presto! Titan!"?

You don't have to like it, just like you don't have to like any particular kind of game, but it isn't the game you are comparing it to.

Elesaar
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.18 22:27:00 - [58]
 

Thats why there is a character bazzar

Agondray
Gallente
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
Posted - 2011.05.19 14:20:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
One MMO I played had infinite levels. Every level was 2x the points of the previous.

Where most people were level 6-9 in a skill, a few people that macroed daily for years were level 20+ in that skill.

The biggest downside was that it encouraged macroing, which also wasn't enforced.


thats called Tibia, they have a macro detection program now that autobans you at the first sign of a 3rd party program...

Xiyn
Gallente
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.05.23 07:19:00 - [60]
 

Honestly, SP is fine. i actually prefer it to XP based games.

Having trained some really long skills to 5, (Carrier L5, Fighters L5) i am honestly not mad about the fact they each took over a month.

If skills had came any faster i would of been able to fly a carrier long before i was READY to fly one.


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