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Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:58:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Potato IQ
Originally by: Von Kroll

They also cost almost twice as much or more than the T2 variants, and a Blackbird can run 4 T2 jammers cap stable with good skills.



Not true. Some of the meta 4 are less than the T2 counterparts. or at least they were 3 months back when I was playing with them



I'm not saying you can't find a single jammer out there on the market cheaper, but if you go to Jita to buy your stuff, or most other major market locations where you are guaranteed to find jammers in bulk (I buy 5-10 of each at a time), you'll pay a lot more for a best-named than a T2. For example, look at meta-4 gravimetric jammers versus T2 in Jita. Don't get me wrong, if I have meta-4, I use them, but for the most part these come off of loot drops from NPCs. I don't actively go out and buy them. IMO, the T2 are more cost-effective, if not more cap-effective.

shadowace00007
Amarr
Beyond The Gates
Posted - 2011.04.07 13:36:00 - [32]
 

I have been working on this fit. Kinda takes a new approach but the Idea is not to get hit. and not to boost your sig anymore then you need to. and because 99.9% of the time your not going to start at 0 KM you should last some time before the opposing fleet can get in range to do damage inless they bring something extremely light. and then swith out for rockets and you should be able to keep them off of you. (Also tracking disruptor can do 2 things, 1 be a tracking disruptor and 2 make people think they are jammed when you miss cycles.)


[Blackbird, Test fit]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

ECM - Spatial Destabilizer II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Ion Field Projector II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
Tracking Disruptor II, Tracking Speed Disruption
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Defender I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Defender I
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Defender I
[empty high slot]

Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Jaik7
Posted - 2011.04.07 14:14:00 - [33]
 

is this advice applicable to falcons as well as blackbirds? or are falcons different enough that sitting at extreme range and jamming with racial specialties is not the best tactic?

also, the best ranked falcon fit i found using Evemon's search of battleclinic had smartbombs in the high slots and warrior 2s for drones. are the smartbombs and warriors to pick off drones that continue attacking after the controling ship is jammed? would it be worth putting one of the odd targeting systems in the highs and ecm drones in the lows?

Phal boy
Posted - 2011.04.10 00:36:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Nano J
Originally by: Frau Klaps
Originally by: Sanic Xaqueter
what should I not be doing?

You should stop being a bad and fly some non ecm ship.



maybe that's why he's posting on warfare & tactics? god forbid anyone actually tries to learn something from the community without getting trolled.

As for the OP, I prefer my ECM ships with an armor plate. I haven't flown a bb in years, but the plate should leave you wil lower sig radius and a free midslot for another jammer. IMHO, an extra jammer is more useful than an extra distortion amp.


General rule of thumb is ***s and queers fly ecm boats.
Its a game killer especially when you have tarts sporting a falcon and every other ship they field has
ecm drones.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.04.10 00:51:00 - [35]
 

People like the ones *****ing in this thread are part of the reason I fly ECM boats.

Mar Lee
An Army of None
Posted - 2011.04.10 01:41:00 - [36]
 

For some reason, I feel that certain posters on this thread might benefit from this quote.

Quote:
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move?

The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.


From Sirlin's Playing to Win.

Aubrey Maturin
Parabellum Diligentia
Posted - 2011.04.10 03:47:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
People like the ones *****ing in this thread are part of the reason I fly ECM boats.


Word.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.04.10 04:52:00 - [38]
 

Due to the range and lesser jam strength of multi-specs, most folks, myself included, say they are not as good as racials. However, used up close, 4 multispecs pretty much permajam any single subcap target of any race. So I would say they are viable in solo pvp, so long as you can field enough of them and still fit a warp disruptor.

I picked the number 4 after losing a Widow on SiSi to a blaster Kronos whiel running 3 multispecs and a flight of ECM drones. I mean, wtf kind of ECM ship/pilot can't jam a marauder? And no, he wasn't running ECCM. Everything missed and he shredded me. After this I added another multispec.

After that, I have found my worst nightmare to be drones. Set to aggressive, they will target you even if the opposing pilot is jammed to hell and back. So it is very important to either use smartbombs if you are going to be in close, or keep at range, in which case you should be using racials.

Further testing revealed that a single Large Explosive smartbomb was not enough to kill Ogre IIs. It was barely sufficient to kill Hobgoblin IIs. They got me to about 5% shields before the smartbomb wiped them out.

With any ECM bird, if you are using multiple jammers on the same target, remember not to activate all your jammers at once. Start them one at a time, staggering the start times so that if you start missing jam cycles, you only have to wait a few seconds for the next check. Otherwise, if you miss on all of them you have to wait the entire 20 seconds for another chance.

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Caldari
Seventh Exploration and Engagement Command
Gryphon League
Posted - 2011.04.10 07:47:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
With any ECM bird, if you are using multiple jammers on the same target, remember not to activate all your jammers at once. Start them one at a time, staggering the start times so that if you start missing jam cycles, you only have to wait a few seconds for the next check. Otherwise, if you miss on all of them you have to wait the entire 20 seconds for another chance.


What would you recommend the stagger be...about 4 to 5 seconds?

Gibbo5771
Posted - 2011.04.10 08:23:00 - [40]
 

Dont be gay and ruin small gang/solo fights, fly something that wont 1 side the fight completely.

Falcon wannabe ***

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Caldari
Seventh Exploration and Engagement Command
Gryphon League
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:03:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Gibbo5771
Dont be gay and ruin small gang/solo fights, fly something that wont 1 side the fight completely.

Falcon wannabe ***


Ignoring your infantile slurs for the moment, it would be just as easy for someone to say "don't be a tackler and make it one-sided." Like it or not, any fight that starts off "fair" means someone didn't prep enough. Both in-game and out, if you go into a battle without a decent advantage on your side, "ur doing it wrong."

Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:45:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
Quote:
They also cost almost twice as much or more than the T2 variants, and a Blackbird can run 4 T2 jammers cap stable with good skills.



If you have the skills for T2 you have the money for best meta.

Plus the cap stability is more important as it leaves you enough cap to burn your MWD if need be to keep range.

Are we really debating this about a freaking blackbird? Its a cheap disposable ship that I wouldn't even put a mwd/tank on.



Contradicting yourself much? I agree with your second argument that its a cheap and disposable ship. So much so that I wouldn't double the cost just to fit best named jammers, which only save it a bit of cap that it won't need 90% of the time anyway. Affordability isn't the issue, but since you mentioned it, the t2 jammer skill is only 2 days to train, there are tons of younger players that train into blackbirds for their corp that probably don't have isk to throw away on best named jammers.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.04.11 06:31:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Cephelange du'Krevviq
Originally by: Soldarius
With any ECM bird, if you are using multiple jammers on the same target, remember not to activate all your jammers at once. Start them one at a time, staggering the start times so that if you start missing jam cycles, you only have to wait a few seconds for the next check. Otherwise, if you miss on all of them you have to wait the entire 20 seconds for another chance.


What would you recommend the stagger be...about 4 to 5 seconds?


Depends on the number of jammers. Try to evenly stagger them. So for 4 jammers, yeah, 5 seconds.

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2011.04.11 14:21:00 - [44]
 

So much wrong in this thread.

Quote:
4 multispecs pretty much permajam any single subcap target of any race


No it REALLY doesn't. Not even close. Try this against a BS/Recon.



**And Don't stagger your Jams. Don't use them all on one guy either.

It is very simple, use racial, stay at range, Use one module at a time, if it misses use another, if it misses use the 3rd, if it lands turn the other 2 off. Keep jamms ready for ships that warp in. The idea is to not use more Jams than needed. If its one guy, and you jam him with one jammer, LEAVE THE OTHERS ALONE. His help will come and you don't want to be the douche that has him tripple jammed and nothing left to help your fleet GTFO.


And drones set to aggressive only applies if they were able to lock you. Drones will not engage unless a lock has been established. Once engaged they will continue regardless of lock status. (This is why in the boss solo rook setup if you miss a jam and get locked and they get drones out you are to leave on your next jam)

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.04.12 09:53:00 - [45]
 

You assume that your tactics are the only ones that work. Given certain situations, they are appropriate. In others, they are not. Your tactics are right for fleet combat, and in those situations they should be used. But in other situations, they will get you killed. Broken down:

Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
So much wrong in this thread.

Quote:
4 multispecs pretty much permajam any single subcap target of any race


No it REALLY doesn't. Not even close. Try this against a BS/Recon.


I have. It does. If it doesn't for you, either you are doing it wrong or your ECM skills need more training. My skills in said Widow with 4x multispecs and a single ECM aug rig against BS-sized opponents gets about a 80% jam success rate. Yes, I did the calculations right. Those are raw EFT figures. If you drag your ECM mods to the projected effects area of a target ship, EFT will show your cumulative jam percentage probability in the stats section. Handy.

Quote:
**And Don't stagger your Jams. Don't use them all on one guy either.

It is very simple, use racial, stay at range, Use one module at a time, if it misses use another, if it misses use the 3rd, if it lands turn the other 2 off.


Are you fielding a rack of all the same racial jammers so that you can put one after another on the same ship, which is exactly what you said not to do? If you field a bunch of Amarr jammers expecting an armor fleet with guardian support and the enemy shows up in a shield fleet with scimitars, you are at best less effective, and at worst nearly useless.

But that is partly my fault. I did not specify what kind of jammers were best in particular situations. I'm not advocating going into a fleet engagement with multispecs, especially if you intend to stay at range. If you know what you're going up against or intend to stay at range, yes use racials. But I was referring to solo work, in which case you will need to be close for tackle, and thus will benefit from the use of multispecs, as range is not an issue, and you won't know in advance what kind of enemy ships you may encounter. Know your situation and fit accordingly.

Quote:
Keep jamms ready for ships that warp in. The idea is to not use more Jams than needed. If its one guy, and you jam him with one jammer, LEAVE THE OTHERS ALONE. His help will come and you don't want to be the douche that has him tripple jammed and nothing left to help your fleet GTFO.


You are correct. That is a viable tactic, and one that I use in fleet combat. In my own defense, I never said keep them all on. But neither did I say to deactivate them either. So my bad on not specifying so.

However, in a solo engagement (just you and the target in system) it is generally safe enough to get all those jammers going with staggered activations so that you don't have to worry about micro-managing ECM modules. If help does show up you will be able to gtfo without worrying about that one jammer that is still running suddenly missing and you getting caught with your shorts down.

Quote:
And drones set to aggressive only applies if they were able to lock you. Drones will not engage unless a lock has been established. Once engaged they will continue regardless of lock status. (This is why in the boss solo rook setup if you miss a jam and get locked and they get drones out you are to leave on your next jam)


I hesitate to contradict you on this as that is the commonly accepted behavior. However, have you ever warped to or spawned a new wave in a Guristas mission, plex, or anomaly and while waiting to pull aggro get jammed? I have seen it many times when while under jams in that situation, I deploy drones and sit there, expecting to have to wait until the cycle is over before locking and sending my drones off. To my surprise, they will sometimes auto-aggro a nearby rat, usually a frigate, but only if they are set to aggressive. Bug? Dunno. I've seen it dozens of times. But that is for another thread.

Krystyn
Caldari
Serenity Rising LLC
Slammer's Republic
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:36:00 - [46]
 

Interesting Discussion so far.
A few different takes that I haven't seen mentioned so far.
The BB is a cheap disposable ship insure it and be prepared to get it blown up over and over again. With that in mind equip it as such.
Add a few weapons to get a little dps, shoot the primary the FC calls while jamming something else important, you can get in on a lot of Killmails that way. I tend to equip my black birds with Rat loot that is easily available. A nice 800mm plate helps you survive a hit or 2 while your warping away or gives you enough EHP for a logi to help you. As sometimes you have to jump in with the fleet and are at the gate in the middle of the fight. Expect to die at that point, but if you can jam out the other guys Logis for a few cycles before you get popped you just 'won' the fight for your side.
ECM ships are there to slant the field in your sides favor. For example Im in a 16 man BC gang with 2 logis and we run into a similar sized gang same another 16 man BC gang with 2 logis as well and we jump into them. Should be an even fight right? Wrong! whoever has more ECM wins assuming decent target calling by your FC. In this fight your cheap little BB jams out one of the logis and the FC primaries the other one it goes down fast without the other logis repping it. Enemy FC primaries you and your logis keep you up for a few jam cycles. Enemy fleet down a logi friendly fleet down your BB, but your probably the only loss as your fleet can now break the other logi next and then start in on whoever else you can get a point on as the other fleet runs away. Now if they don't primary you right away then keep on jamming and watch the enemy fleet pop or run away as fast as they can. I try to jam the biggest DPS boats on the other side like Brutixes to make my logis job easy. Note on jumping in, be the last guy on your side to jump into a fight, let the heavily tanked drakes jump in first they might survive-you won't for very long-this give the enemy FC time to call his first primary-not you since you haven't jumped in yet or are holding cloak. Give yourself time to find who you should jam first(although, your FC should have already given you a priority of what to jam) If your logis don't suck the enemy fleet can be wasting ammo slowly breaking a drake or not so slowly killing a cane when you jam out a few ships and then watch as the 'even' fight turns into a rout.

Now since more than a few people understand ECM try to get a few more buddies to fly ecm boats with you. DPS is a lot less important if the other side can't rep and can't do a lot DPS of their own.

If your fleet is camping a gate or they warp into you and you know about it in advance being at range 50 km+ is a very good idea. In my experience, though, when you are roaming you often are going to be right in the thick of it.
Also racial are better than multis, but its hard to plan in advance unless your fight an enemy you know well or you have good intel. Without that I tend to fit 5 multis or 4 multis a caldari or minmatar racial to go for the high chance to jam our a drake or a cane and use the 4 mulis to get the logi or other primary jam target T2s are better, obviously, but a bit more expensive and a little tougher to fit and if you can get ahold of them go for it. However, they really only make a minor difference

Response to the OP:
If you're a newb in a BB and you can jam out one enemy BS you are more than pulling your weight in a fight. What you probably need is to skill up a few of the ecm related skills and watch your chance to jam go up quite a bit and after a bit of skilling up you can probably jam 2 enemy ships in a fight.

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.04.12 17:28:00 - [47]
 

Alot of these fits in here are missing a plate. Also if OP is looking to play a ECM support role having a dual BB team will make those missed cycles a lot less damaging for you. heres some tips:

1: Cycle your jammers evenly spaced from each other. This way if one misses the next has a chance to hit, and its possibly to perma jam someone by continually bringing the jam back to max time.
2: Coordinate with your BB buddy on targets. Its better to have two BBs with a mix of 2-3 races then two BBs with all 4 races. I'm in FW and I fit most Min jammers and still use MSii's.
3: Dont be afraid to die. Because you will be primaried. great way to ease yourself into PVP.

I dont ECM often anymore as I got tired of people saying my KB sucks, but I still bring it out on occassion (although I am fond of falcons now that I can afford losing them).

Have fun!

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2011.04.12 19:31:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 12/04/2011 19:39:32
Quote:
You assume that your tactics are the only ones that work. Given certain situations, they are appropriate. In others, they are not. Your tactics are right for fleet combat, and in those situations they should be used. But in other situations, they will get you killed.


No I assume my tactics are what work best for the situations a blackbird needs to be put in.

Quote:
I have. It does. If it doesn't for you, either you are doing it wrong or your ECM skills need more training. My skills in said Widow with 4x multispecs and a single ECM aug rig against BS-sized opponents gets about a 80% jam success rate. Yes, I did the calculations right. Those are raw EFT figures. If you drag your ECM mods to the projected effects area of a target ship, EFT will show your cumulative jam percentage probability in the stats section. Handy.


Holy crap I hope you are trolling. Blackbird with 2xSA and distance rigs is 6.2 multi jam str. A raven is 22 sensor strength. That is 28% chance per jam or (x4) 59% total. VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY far from "Pretty much perma-jammed" you freaking loser.

Quote:
You are correct. That is a viable tactic, and one that I use in fleet combat.


Are you soloing a blackbird? I promise I solo a rook more than you and you STILL DON'T STAGGER YOUR JAMS. If it lands, TURN THE OTHERS OFF. If you can't micro 4-5 jammers + dscan you need to stick to hello kitty island adventure.

Quote:
I hesitate to contradict you on this as that is the commonly accepted behavior. However, have you ever warped to or spawned a new wave in a Guristas mission, plex, or anomaly and while waiting to pull aggro get jammed? I have seen it many times when while under jams in that situation, I deploy drones and sit there, expecting to have to wait until the cycle is over before locking and sending my drones off. To my surprise, they will sometimes auto-aggro a nearby rat, usually a frigate, but only if they are set to aggressive. Bug? Dunno. I've seen it dozens of times. But that is for another thread.


You end your counter - argument with your vast PvE experience? Rolling Eyes I hate you and you are what is wrong with the forums.

*Edit:: Forgot to add a comment about why I said to roll your jammers until one lands.
Fleet:
Keep your racials on the correct race. If you miss a jam, it sucks but it is what it is. if you have a spare jammer put it on the most damaging target.
Solo(RooK):
Use correct racial (OL if BC size, Run is BS/Recon) if it misses roll through your off-racials, if one lands turn off others INCLUDING the landed one, try again with OL correct racial and be thankful.

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2011.04.12 19:58:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 12/04/2011 20:01:07
Quote:
1: Cycle your jammers evenly spaced from each other. This way if one misses the next has a chance to hit, and its possibly to perma jam someone by continually bringing the jam back to max time.


Some one please tell me how this is mathematically sane?

Lets walk through this, 4 jammers. 2 Hit, 2 Miss.

Your way:
Hit 1, 5 second delay, Miss 2, 5 second delay, Hit 3, 5 second delay, Miss 4.
So Jammed for first 10 seconds by 1, Jammed by 2 jammers for 10 through 20(seconds). Total Jam of 35 seconds (3rd hit landed at 15) using all 4 jammers.

Not to ruining the surprise ending but by NOT stacking Them it would have went:
1st jammer. Hit (20 seconds)
1st jammer. Miss (1 second)
2nd jammer. Hit (20 seconds)
So 40 seconds of Jam and SHOCKER you have 2 open jammers left.


BolsterBomb
Posted - 2011.04.12 20:51:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Krystyn
Interesting Discussion so far.
A few different takes that I haven't seen mentioned so far.
The BB is a cheap disposable ship insure it and be prepared to get it blown up over and over again. With that in mind equip it as such.
Add a few weapons to get a little dps, shoot the primary the FC calls while jamming something else important, you can get in on a lot of Killmails that way. I tend to equip my black birds with Rat loot that is easily available. A nice 800mm plate helps you survive a hit or 2 while your warping away or gives you enough EHP for a logi to help you. As sometimes you have to jump in with the fleet and are at the gate in the middle of the fight. Expect to die at that point, but if you can jam out the other guys Logis for a few cycles before you get popped you just 'won' the fight for your side.
ECM ships are there to slant the field in your sides favor. For example Im in a 16 man BC gang with 2 logis and we run into a similar sized gang same another 16 man BC gang with 2 logis as well and we jump into them. Should be an even fight right? Wrong! whoever has more ECM wins assuming decent target calling by your FC. In this fight your cheap little BB jams out one of the logis and the FC primaries the other one it goes down fast without the other logis repping it. Enemy FC primaries you and your logis keep you up for a few jam cycles. Enemy fleet down a logi friendly fleet down your BB, but your probably the only loss as your fleet can now break the other logi next and then start in on whoever else you can get a point on as the other fleet runs away. Now if they don't primary you right away then keep on jamming and watch the enemy fleet pop or run away as fast as they can. I try to jam the biggest DPS boats on the other side like Brutixes to make my logis job easy. Note on jumping in, be the last guy on your side to jump into a fight, let the heavily tanked drakes jump in first they might survive-you won't for very long-this give the enemy FC time to call his first primary-not you since you haven't jumped in yet or are holding cloak. Give yourself time to find who you should jam first(although, your FC should have already given you a priority of what to jam) If your logis don't suck the enemy fleet can be wasting ammo slowly breaking a drake or not so slowly killing a cane when you jam out a few ships and then watch as the 'even' fight turns into a rout.

Now since more than a few people understand ECM try to get a few more buddies to fly ecm boats with you. DPS is a lot less important if the other side can't rep and can't do a lot DPS of their own.

If your fleet is camping a gate or they warp into you and you know about it in advance being at range 50 km+ is a very good idea. In my experience, though, when you are roaming you often are going to be right in the thick of it.
Also racial are better than multis, but its hard to plan in advance unless your fight an enemy you know well or you have good intel. Without that I tend to fit 5 multis or 4 multis a caldari or minmatar racial to go for the high chance to jam our a drake or a cane and use the 4 mulis to get the logi or other primary jam target T2s are better, obviously, but a bit more expensive and a little tougher to fit and if you can get ahold of them go for it. However, they really only make a minor difference

Response to the OP:
If you're a newb in a BB and you can jam out one enemy BS you are more than pulling your weight in a fight. What you probably need is to skill up a few of the ecm related skills and watch your chance to jam go up quite a bit and after a bit of skilling up you can probably jam 2 enemy ships in a fight.



Ignore this guy. He dont know what he's talking about. Plate....Blackbird.....your KB sucks? Well if your fleet would actually kill something you would see that your jams make you show up on KM. Also you should never ever be engaging with DPS ....your DOING IT WRONG!!

Jerika Bodet
Posted - 2011.04.12 23:39:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
Holy crap I hope you are trolling. Blackbird with 2xSA and distance rigs is 6.2 multi jam str. A raven is 22 sensor strength. That is 28% chance per jam or (x4) 59% total. VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY far from "Pretty much perma-jammed" you freaking loser.


LMFAO! Oh man, I almost peed! No limit has it right. There's no sense in having non-effective (missed) mods running, wasting cap and not being readily available if someone else comes in to play. I personally pefer 2 grav, 1 magno, 1 noise, 1 multi; given not knowing what i'm up against. Intel of course changes that. The multi is for Minnie or if the racial fails. Then, just as Nolimit stated, shut off and go racial again. Then again, I have near perfect jamming skills, recon included, so my multi is like 9.4 or something close to that; been a while since I last looked. Cool

Tyme Xandr
Gallente
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.04.13 00:20:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 12/04/2011 20:01:07
Quote:
1: Cycle your jammers evenly spaced from each other. This way if one misses the next has a chance to hit, and its possibly to perma jam someone by continually bringing the jam back to max time.


Some one please tell me how this is mathematically sane?

Lets walk through this, 4 jammers. 2 Hit, 2 Miss.

Your way:
Hit 1, 5 second delay, Miss 2, 5 second delay, Hit 3, 5 second delay, Miss 4.
So Jammed for first 10 seconds by 1, Jammed by 2 jammers for 10 through 20(seconds). Total Jam of 35 seconds (3rd hit landed at 15) using all 4 jammers.

Not to ruining the surprise ending but by NOT stacking Them it would have went:
1st jammer. Hit (20 seconds)
1st jammer. Miss (1 second)
2nd jammer. Hit (20 seconds)
So 40 seconds of Jam and SHOCKER you have 2 open jammers left.




What? Every time ONE module gets a successful jam it brings the time back to max time jammed. Even if you have for example: 6 seconds left of jamming, if another module gets a successful jam it goes back to max time. Don't just press f1-f4 and hope for the best.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.04.13 00:50:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 13/04/2011 00:50:41
Originally by: Gibbo5771
Dont be gay and ruin small gang/solo fights, fly something that wont 1 side the fight completely.

Falcon wannabe ***


Space honor demands that players with low SP should just roll over and die, or do the honorable and decent thing and sacrifice their rifters to the blood gods. Because bringing a ship that does not do damage is, basically, cheating. Totally.

Now excuse me while I attack your t1 gunned omen with my 300 million isk faction frigate and call you a "noob" in local.

Honoure!!

Gistatis Tribunus
Posted - 2011.04.13 03:31:00 - [54]
 

This thread has me convinced that Blackbird/Falcon/Rook are the most fun ships in the game.

Beltantis Torrence
Wolfsbrigade
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2011.04.13 06:02:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 13/04/2011 06:02:36
Originally by: Richard Bong
Edited by: Richard Bong on 05/04/2011 22:41:55
^^^^^^^^^^ this guy doesn't suck listen to him

you will die a lot in bb's :edit: I am in no way saying dont fly them, I am just saying you will die gloriously. but the amount of grief you can cause the enemy in a 3 mil isk ship is hilarious.

like that guy said, RANGE IS YOUR TANK



There are times when you shouldn't melt instantly because a drake fired a volley of heavy missiles at you. There's also times where you should burn out and jam rather than taking 60 seconds to warp off and come back in small gang fights. It's funny how the same people saying don't fit any sort of tank whatsoever are the ones saying you're also going to die every time you take one out.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.04.13 10:03:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 12/04/2011 19:39:32
Quote:
I have. It does. If it doesn't for you, either you are doing it wrong or your ECM skills need more training. My skills in said Widow with 4x multispecs and a single ECM aug rig against BS-sized opponents gets about a 80% jam success rate. Yes, I did the calculations right. Those are raw EFT figures. If you drag your ECM mods to the projected effects area of a target ship, EFT will show your cumulative jam percentage probability in the stats section. Handy.


Holy crap I hope you are trolling. Blackbird with 2xSA and distance rigs is 6.2 multi jam str. A raven is 22 sensor strength. That is 28% chance per jam or (x4) 59% total. VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY far from "Pretty much perma-jammed" you freaking loser.



Again, you fail at reading comprehension. Bolded the important part in my quote above. LEt me also say, again since you can't seem to understand anything but what your selective eyesight allows you, that is a solo fit Widow. You do know what a Widow is, right? Caldari Black Ops battleship. It gets the same bonuses to ECM strength as a Rook.

Even worse, you fail totally at math. I mean, damn! Where did you get 59%? Even figuring as you indicated, 28% x 4 = 112%, which would be a permajam except that that is not how it's figured. The percentage chance to jam a Raven with the fit you just indicated (the blackbird with 2 SDAs, 2x range rigs, and 4x multispecs since you keep getting the ships confused) is 73.1%.

Quote:
Are you soloing a blackbird?


No. Didn't I specify that above?

Quote:
I promise I solo a rook more than you...
When did we start talking about Rooks? Stay on topic, plz. Oh, and proof?

Quote:
...and you STILL DON'T STAGGER YOUR JAMS. If it lands, TURN THE OTHERS OFF. If you can't micro 4-5 jammers + dscan you need to stick to hello kitty island adventure.


Yet again, you are talking fleet. I was talking solo. If you are worried about your cap in an ECM ship, then your core skills are crap and you need to train some more. Hell, there is even a skill specifically for ECM cap usage.

Quote:
Keep your racials on the correct race. If you miss a jam, it sucks but it is what it is. if you have a spare jammer put it on the most damaging target.


This is the only sensible thing you posted. Except enemy logistics are your top priority, followed by EWAR, followed by fast tackle or HIC focused warp disruptors. Then you can think about jamming dps ships. Your main concern should be negating enemy force multipliers.

Quote:
You end your counter - argument with your vast PvE experience? Rolling Eyes I hate you and you are what is wrong with the forums.


Haters will hate. Drones are drones. But all you really said was lalalalala.

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2011.04.13 13:30:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 13/04/2011 13:38:26
Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 13/04/2011 13:37:57
Originally by: Soldarius
Trolling




I'm being trolled by a care bear, you win this time master of the solo widow. Rolling Eyes


Congrats for reminding me though that is isn't cumulative percentage but 1-((1-J/S)^N) to determine jam percentage using the same module. I do it the other way as it gives me a quick "close enough" when mixing jammers (as you shouldn't be using multi)

Still, 73% isn't perma-jammed you tard.

BolsterBomb
Posted - 2011.04.13 15:18:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 13/04/2011 06:02:36
Originally by: Richard Bong
Edited by: Richard Bong on 05/04/2011 22:41:55
^^^^^^^^^^ this guy doesn't suck listen to him

you will die a lot in bb's :edit: I am in no way saying dont fly them, I am just saying you will die gloriously. but the amount of grief you can cause the enemy in a 3 mil isk ship is hilarious.

like that guy said, RANGE IS YOUR TANK



There are times when you shouldn't melt instantly because a drake fired a volley of heavy missiles at you. There's also times where you should burn out and jam rather than taking 60 seconds to warp off and come back in small gang fights. It's funny how the same people saying don't fit any sort of tank whatsoever are the ones saying you're also going to die every time you take one out.


No people that dont know how to fly say you will die gloriously. I am saying learn to fly the ship. You should never be killed unless you get alphad at the wassssooo, and you shouldnt because if you have auto target on you would see you are being yellow boxed and gtfo.

Rikki Sals
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.13 17:56:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Kitty Vintner
who the hell fits missile launchers on a blackbird they take up valuable real estate that could go to salvagers. salvage one t2 ship and you've paid for your next two blackbirds. always remember that jammers work just as well on your fellow gang members if they try and salvage your wrecks before you can heh.


I like the way this guy thinks! LaughingYARRRR!!

Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.04.13 18:42:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Rikki Sals
Originally by: Kitty Vintner
who the hell fits missile launchers on a blackbird they take up valuable real estate that could go to salvagers. salvage one t2 ship and you've paid for your next two blackbirds. always remember that jammers work just as well on your fellow gang members if they try and salvage your wrecks before you can heh.


I like the way this guy thinks! LaughingYARRRR!!


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