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Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.01 17:01:00 - [31]
 

Generally, the two things an industrial corp will do is:

(1) Join an alliance with a PvP corp. They provide protection, you provide ships when they get blown up and isk for their wardecs.

(2) Have your alts wardec you in order to make declaring war against you more expensive. This is no real deterrent if killing you is actually profitable, but if you're a bunch of newbies pushing it up to 10m a week will probably make it more expensive than is worth the trouble for some t1 modules and veldspar and frustration when you refuse to engage and go to station when WTs come into the system.

Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.02 01:13:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Deflourer
if u dislike pvp and pve, why don't u play Tetris? i can guarantee nobody will bother ya there!


I thought EVE community was more mature than this. When i read a stupid comment like this one it makes me think i'm in wow forums.

Guess what? EVE is a ****ing sandbox, sandboxes are not about PVP only, if you are too dumb to realize this as you are a coward to post with an alt than i'm sorry you are helpless.

Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.02 01:17:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Wardecs by 12 year olds and fat guys in highsec are a tax on being a highsec carebear. Move to lowsec or null and you'll never see them again. There is also, of course, pvp in lowsec and null. It's a pvp MMO. There are many, many MMOs which are not, but this one is.


THIS i can agree. theres a huge difference between real PVPers and ****ing 12 year old or forever alone obese griefers. I wonder if someday companies interest in sandbox will realize that PVP is not about griefing and that the number of PVErs and PVPers that pay a subscription are much higher than the grifers that only help to weaken a game by driving away new players that are essencial for a game's health over the years.

Mikalya
Amarr
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2011.04.02 03:56:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Maverick2011

Guess what? EVE is a ****ing sandbox, sandboxes are not about PVP only, if you are too dumb to realize this as you are a coward to post with an alt than i'm sorry you are helpless.

Exactly, Eve is a sandbox, meaning that everyone ELSE is playing in the sandbox.

The OP wants it to be a sandbox for them, but not for everyone else. Hence would be happier in Tetris or another game where the other players' aren't in a sandbox and can't kick your sand castle down.

Eve is about PvP AND PvE; both of them inter-twined. There is no escaping one or the other regardless of how you might want to play.

Mikalya
Amarr
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2011.04.02 04:00:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Maverick2011

THIS i can agree. theres a huge difference between real PVPers and ****ing 12 year old or forever alone obese griefers. I wonder if someday companies interest in sandbox will realize that PVP is not about griefing and that the number of PVErs and PVPers that pay a subscription are much higher than the grifers that only help to weaken a game by driving away new players that are essencial for a game's health over the years.


Hint: Eve has not altered its base rules since starting 10 years ago and its still growing. Yes, some new players leave, but others stay.

And it isn't "Griefing" unless CCP says it is. Wardecs, can flipping, suicide ganking, etc are all INTENDED game mechanics. They aren't griefing. CCP has proclaimed since Eve was in Beta that they wanted a dark, dismal and harsh universe and they have pretty much succeeded. Part of that harshness is that people WILL shoot at you regardless of what you wish.

Again, if the OP can't accept that they don't belong in this game. Eve isn't for everyone.

TravisWB
Posted - 2011.04.03 15:14:00 - [36]
 

Create an alt. Use alt to hold wardec'd corp that your main quits on wardec. Wait a week or so until wardec is over. Rejoin corp or make a new corp. Have alt abandon original corp.

Or, join my corp.

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.04.04 15:49:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Christina Yim
So, I think we're all aware of the fact that the current war dec system is a grief fest of pvpers senselessly attacking innocent corporations...


Just stop.

It's not a fact, so just stop.

EvE has a mechanic for people who don't want to be wardecced: NPC corps.

CORPORATIONS IN EVE ARE NOT GUILDS.
A CORP IS NOT A PLACE TO PLAY WITH YOUR FRIENDS. YOU CAN DO THAT IN THE NPC CORPS SETUP FOR THE PURPOSE YOU WANT.
A CORP IS A FLAG. JOINING OR STARTING A CORP IS SIGNED CONSENT TO PLAY WITH THE OTHER FOLKS IN THE POOL.

It's not totally your fault that you think this way. The tutorials really ought to spell it out for new folks, and I'm sure CCP can improve on that area.

But it doesn't change the facts. You shouldn't go around developing opinions and publically stating them as fact, you'll get the hostility you got from this thread every time.

Good luck with your issues.

Welcome to
Everyone
versus
Everyone

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:15:00 - [38]
 

Generally, people wardec you for the following reasons.

1. Killmails/easy targets, the more the better. I'd say this is the primarily reason for war declarations. People love to slaughter noobs and get awesome related kills where they kill 10 dudes in frigates in their Vagabond solo. Large mining corps and other large corporations which provide a large roster of inexperienced pilots while being reletively weak military wise so that they cannot respond well are primary picks.

2. Isk, You or your corp mates fly around in expensive maruders, faction battleships, Orcas, T3s etc. Flying in pimped ships in empire often attracts the wrong attention. If a griefer thinks he can make a couple hundred million isk off of your ships then you're going to get decced.

3. Tears. One of your members smacktalks / crys on the forums, or whines in local. Maybe your CEO is a ****** and smacks them in dock while your corporation numbers drops by the day. Generally, if a griefer knows they'll get some good forum **** or some local tears, they'll dec you.

4. Proven Punching Bag. Usually related to above, you've lost a war in the past, maybe your members smack talked and got owned, and theres probably a thread on C&P about how much you suck, you losing an expensive faction maruder, or your ceo ranting like a moron. Maybe you got slaughtered 5 vs 20 and theres a battle report posted somewhere.


Ways you can avoid each type of "empire griefer".

1) - Don't public-ally recruit by means of spam, and don't accept trial characters especially in rookie starting systems. The 'lots of targets' type griefers prefer tons of noobs which can't fight back in the corp, the more the better. By spamming in local and having terrible recruitment standards you are a prime pick for these types. You're also easy as hell to infiltrate making setting up kills, copy/pasting tears from corp chat and corp mail all the easier. Take your recruitment slow, and carefully, and don't accept 50 dudes in one week. Corps that rapidly expand are high priority targets as well.

Improving your recruitment standards by means of who you accept, interviewing players and avoid rapid expansion will decrease your chances of being picked for a dec. Also, if you're a group of miners then avoid mass mining in one system, I understand that you like to do mining ops, but large collections of players in defenseless ships attracts the wrong guys, on top of that, avoid mining in systems in close proximity to market hubs and rookie systems, as thats where the majority of can-baiter's and ore thieves reside.

2) - Avoid flying stupidly expensive ships in mass mission hubs and other areas. Especially if you have a history of losing them. Don't fly the ships during the war at all costs If the war starts AND YOU MUST mission run, put the 2b Golem away for a Raven, or just fly a battlecruiser with mining links instead of the Orca, minimize your costs, that means downsizing your hulks to covetors, maximise their effort spent dock up your ships, go 22 jumps to a different mission hub, as soon as it isn't worth their time monetary wise they'll not bother. Flying t1 junk and confronting them can also work although if you take too much losses they might enjoy the easy targets.

3) Don't be ******s in local, don't smack on the forums, don't post terrible threads. Don't whine when you die. Don't send 4 paragraph hate mails to the guy who killed your retriever. Make sure your corp has a policy against smacking and posting offensive stuff in local. If you have been decced, avoid smacking your wartargets, and try to keep corp chat civil because there is a chance they have a spy there and even if you're being clean in local if your raging in corp chat and they see it they're going to continue.


Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:41:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Mister Agreeable
Isn't this officially an exploit as stated by CCP? (heard many times that was a bannable offense) How come no one at EVE uni gets their accounts permabanned for such deliberate exploitation of the game's mechanic?


Petition for clarification.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.04.04 19:37:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Deen Wispa on 04/04/2011 19:37:32
Asking how to avoid wardecs while playing a pvp-based game like EVE is like asking how to avoid rejection when asking women out. You can't.

As I always say, "In empire, there are two types of corps; those who can defend themselves. And those who can't."

Yarda
Posted - 2011.04.05 09:27:00 - [41]
 

If you're not interested in PvP, its important to have a decent number of players who are. Like any high-sec corporation, diversity is key. Pure mining corps go down. Pure PvP ones as well (not counting the alt "mercenary" corps). This wont change till you join an alliance. Those can have diversity on a corp level.

The only true way to avoid wardecs is social imho. Simply put: have friends. You get decced, you ask your friends to help out. They need stuff, you help them out. Expand your network. Lone children are easy targets for bullies.


Rovain Sess
Posted - 2011.04.06 12:02:00 - [42]
 

C'mon man - get with the program. Saying you just wanna mine while knowing that Eve has a heavy PVP focus is like saying you want to play football and never get hit. It doesn't matter who you are, eventually your gunna get decc'd.

As to how you handle it - every option is gunna have its costs. However, i'd take the notions of honor, and fairness out of the equation. Eve is all about - im doing this b/c atm you cant stop me. Think bully mentality!

You know the mechanics - and they arent gunna change.

Balnir Morlemaine
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.11 21:01:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Balnir Morlemaine on 11/04/2011 21:16:21
I have been playing EVE for a couple years (so yeah, compared to many I am still pretty new!) and I have done it all. The carebear high-sec industry thing, mining, industry, low-sec solo and small-fleet PvP, nullsec, and so on. I am not one of those who think that miners are useless (try holding sov without ships... go ahead!), nor am I one of those who things that PvP is the only thing in Eve.

However, here's one piece of advice: Never use the term "non-PvP" or its analogs ever again. Everyone in Eve is a PvPer. Some just don't know it. The "Undock" button should be labeled "Enter PvP". Miners in high-sec are PvPing. They are fighting the market decisions of other corps, for one thing. Trade is PvP. Sharing a universe with suicide gankers and wardeccers is PvP... because they can gank or wardec you at any point. There is NO such thing as someone who does not PvP!

My advice would be to form (or join) a nice big corp. Get yourself a good 20 active players, at least. Give them all Incursuseses... Incursi? Whatever. If you get wardecced, sack up, HTFU, hop in your incursi, and go hunting. Most corps that wardec industrial corps are small corps (in my experience) and I don't care who you are... if you get tackled and swarmed by 20 frigates while you are out and alone, you are going to be having an interesting fight. I have seen small industry corps station-camp PvP corps for hours on end, essentially ruining the PvPer's day.

I guess my primary point is this: There is no such thing as being someone who doesn't PvP. Get comfortable with that fact. In Eve, they are NOT going to leave you alone. You can let this be a bad thing, or you can let it be a good thing. It's all up to how you adapt and your attitude.
Oh, and for god's sake, don't complain or smack-talk your opponents. That just delights them, and makes them want to pick on you.

Starting this thread was a mistake. :)

Irani Firecam
Posted - 2011.04.11 21:12:00 - [44]
 

You can PvP without even leaving the safety of the station!

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Caldari
Seventh Exploration and Engagement Command
Gryphon League
Posted - 2011.04.11 22:07:00 - [45]
 

I've been playing since late December last year, so I'm pretty much a "newb" when it comes to EVE. I didn't come into the game blind, though; I knew, from various sources, what the game environment was going to be like. There are a lot of useful responses/options given in this thread.

A common strategy I've seen suggested both here and elsewhere, is that if you make the 'dec boring for them, then they'll generally go away. If you somehow reward their efforts, whether it be with expensive wrecks to loot/salvage, tears or smacktalk, they'll probably be encouraged to renew their 'dec on you.

lordlulzs
Posted - 2011.04.12 02:36:00 - [46]
 

Extracting tears and rage from those that play EvE is easy and I will tell you how.

Have more information and share it.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.14 15:51:00 - [47]
 

I can teach you how to avoid war decs permenantly but it costs billions. You can probably read the mechanics on war decs and figure it out yourself, but it still costs billions.

Rek Jaiga
Minmatar
Crimson Path
Posted - 2011.04.14 16:36:00 - [48]
 

As has already been iterated many times here, EVE is basically a PvP game. I started out as a miner too, but when my alliance (Ah, Novus Aevum <3) was wardec'd even the industrial corps learned how to pvp. Granted my corp sucked at pvp at that time, but we learned to at least deny the wardeccers kills by staying docked, or being annoying with EWAR. Even if you're not into direct pew-pew you can sit at 70km-ish and just EWAR while your pvp friends (You've made some, right?) kill them for you.

tl;dr, fight back or stay docked and play market games/PI. EVE is a really great game and I'd hate to see somebody leave but EVE truly is a PvP game..

DrDan21
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.04.14 20:20:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Wardecs by 12 year olds and fat guys in highsec are a tax on being a highsec carebear. Move to lowsec or null and you'll never see them again. There is also, of course, pvp in lowsec and null. It's a pvp MMO. There are many, many MMOs which are not, but this one is.


This^
the highsec PvPers are to afraid to risk their shiny ships in lowsec and if they come at all will bring small t1 stuff that you can instapop Very Happy

Woodman2
Posted - 2011.04.16 05:29:00 - [50]
 

Take care about the info your corp discloses in it's description and adverts. Telling the world that you are a mining corp, or that you have a POS, etc is a good way to draw unwanted attention to yourselves.
Make sure other corpmates are aware that smack talking on local is another good way to catch a war dec. And the guy war dec'ing you may not even know the guy you are smack talking, he just got PO'ed with your mouth.
Once you are war dec'ed, do what most of the corps I see do, have an alt corp, quit the corp being dec'ed and move to the alt corp, leaving another alt as ceo of the dec'ed corp.
You can only minimize your chances of a war dec, you can't stop them.

Veleste
Posted - 2011.04.16 13:28:00 - [51]
 

Knowing I could lose everything if I get unlucky or do something stupid is what kept me struggling up through the learning curve of EvE. Everything I accomplished felt like an accomplishment because it could be taken away from me by stupidity or by force. It was exciting.

You don't play EvE, you survive it. If you don't want to get wardecced there's some really great advice here already that I can agree with. Keep your head down, make some friends, be an unattractive target to the people who do wardec you. PvP is fun but in a real heartpounding way so I can understand why some people don't like it. For a long time I preferred mining too and I never got wardecced cause I found a nice quiet region to mine in and I generally stayed in .5 and .4 which tend to be lighter on players than high sec and a bit more noob friendly than the lower secs but pick your space carefully.

Low sec is nothing to be afraid of, just keep an eye on local and always stay aligned to a safe location and you'll be fine. Don't be afraid to lose a ship, you're a manufacturer so you can just buy or make a new one. EvE is your oyster friend, go out and strip mine it.

Eelis Kiy
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2011.04.16 14:02:00 - [52]
 

If you want to avoid war-decs then stay in an NPC corp. This ofc still does not guarantee you will not be blown up by someone though - that is the nature of the game.


If you want to join a player corp then one of the aspects of player-corporations is that they can declare war on each other.


A better step would probably be to educate yourself in how to fly safe and get some pvp happy mates to corp with/alliance with/hire when you need the help.

Anshio Tamark
Posted - 2011.06.17 12:54:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Dani Nardieu

All these are valid tactics although some will be considered "dishonourable" by your griefers (lmao).


It's just as dishonourable to attack defence-less industrialists.

While I'm neither for nor against PVP, I do think war-decs are actually an advantage to industrialists, if they only have a decent supply of BPOs and BPCs at hand, as well as the necessary minerals. Griefer-Corp war-decs Industry-Corp, Industry-Corp should see this as an opportunity to increase their own income after the war, deploy a bunch of cheap-ass Frigates, fight back without caring about their own losses, possibly destroy a couple of Griefer-Corp's ships, war ends after a while, Industry-Corp sells Griefer-Corp new ships at higher prices than without war. All in all, Industry-Corp wins more than Griefer-Corp.

Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing it this way...

Lin-Young Borovskova
Posted - 2011.06.18 13:17:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Wardecs by 12 year olds and fat guys in highsec are a tax on being a highsec carebear. Move to lowsec or null and you'll never see them again. There is also, of course, pvp in lowsec and null. It's a pvp MMO. There are many, many MMOs which are not, but this one is.


And you know what? -small sh!tscums are in vacations soon, it's going to get worst until they get back to school.

Laughing

Better option is to join some low sec well known pirate alliance. They always have high sec pvp corps and ready to give those kiddies some lessons.

Wink


Silas Grief
Posted - 2011.06.18 15:56:00 - [55]
 

Hmm, well. I WAS going to troll you, but I think I might actually give some real advice here.

Here's the way I see it (Being the CEO of Total Grief)

We war-dec for a couple reasons:
-Lulz
-Easy Kills
-War-Contracts
-A rouge member smack-talking in local
-Random fun

Reasons we continue a war (beyond the first week)
-Lots of kills
-Expensive kills
-Tears
-Lulz
-Hate mail
-Forum Threads!

How to "Avoid" Wars
-Stay docked up. (makes things really boring)
-Drop corp (See above)
-Buy out of war (If a ransom is offered)
-Take the fight to us, and stick it to us. (if you can)

How NOT to avoid wars:
-Flying numberless T1 frigs and giving us endless kills. We will enjoy it, we will not get bored.


I have to say most of the time, it's smack-talking that gets peope decs from us. So the easiest way is to keep your fellow corpmates under control.

Hope it helps,
-Silas Grief
The Total Grief Team

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.06.19 08:23:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 19/06/2011 08:48:07
Originally by: Mister Agreeable
Originally by: Jakes Daisho
I heard EVE University came up with a novel solution. They created a lot of alt corps and had them mutually war-dec their own alliance.

Since war-dec costs increase exponentially if the target is already at war with others, this created a situation where it became prohibitively expensive to war-dec EVE University itself. I think they managed to get the cost up to a billion ISK. And since mutual war-decs are free, it didn't cost EVE University anything at all.


Isn't this officially an exploit as stated by CCP? (heard many times that was a bannable offense) How come no one at EVE uni gets their accounts permabanned for such deliberate exploitation of the game's mechanic?

Eve University employed this tactic once. When it as declared an exploit (which Eve-Uni petitioned *first*) they stopped using it. Since they only ever used it *before* it was declared an exploit, no one got banned. This was in May/June of 2008.
Edit: Here is the original thread, enjoy.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=780053

Sagacious Z
Minmatar
Megaton m3 Heavy Industries
Posted - 2011.06.19 11:57:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Christina Yim


Surely there are more options than this, right?


Yes, and you read some of them here and many offered excellent suggestions. Why didn't you think of some of these? Pirates and wardecers are as crucial as anything to making EVE a compelling game. I think we should have a "pirate and wardecer appreciation day" annually. They make EVE exciting for carebears and everybody else by putting the risk/reward ratio to work and making others use their brains to figure out how to counter them.

If your personality is such that you don't find the risk exciting, or if you don't find coming up with ways to lessen the potential risk for you a challenge, then maybe the game is not right for you. I want EVE to grow its member base, but the fact is, this game is designed for player interaction, and that includes wardecs, pirating, etc. The game is also complex and is designed for those who can think and use tactics and use their brain power. If your attitude is truly as your described it, what took you away from playing solitaire and tiddlywinks?

Why not find others who have your same attitude and play style, form a corporation or alliance and use your collective brain trust to figure out ways to have more fun in the game and lessen your risk? If you feel an alliance made up of those with your play style will just attract even more predators, then form an unofficial club and share ideas, intelligence, etc. for mutual protection.

If I were a game developer for EVE, I would work on even more ways to draw in (i.e. "force") even MORE player interaction, including nonsolicited player interaction. The ever present potential risk and nonsolicited player interaction makes EVE as good as it gets in gaming. The great majority of carebears would agree.


Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
Posted - 2011.06.20 00:37:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Christina Yim
So, I think we're all aware of the fact that the current war dec system is a grief fest of pvpers senselessly attacking innocent corporations that want nothing more to do in EVE than to mine and produce in high sec space.


No I am not aware of that but are you aware of the players who expect to compete with me by selling things that I could produce or by mining rocks that I could mine or devalue my LP and generally affect me and other innocent players and expect to able to continue to do this without being affected in return?

Cannibal Kane
Kane's Terrorist
Posted - 2011.06.20 06:50:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Silas Grief
Hmm, well. I WAS going to troll you, but I think I might actually give some real advice here.

Here's the way I see it (Being the CEO of Total Grief)


How to "Avoid" Wars
-Stay docked up. (makes things really boring)
-Drop corp (See above)
-Stay Logged Off(And then Log back in the minute the war is over)

Hope it helps,
-Silas Grief
The Total Grief Team


Quoting that for truth. Total Grief has experience in that part. I just added an additional one we seen they employ when we had a war with them.


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