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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.04 12:57:00 - [2671]
 

Edited by: bitters much on 04/04/2011 13:25:58
Ze tears must flow, keep em comming NC bears Laughing

To add some content:

Maybe all you poor 0.0 scrubs should read the "[Devblog] keep on hunting your enemies"

Quote: Bounty prizes up 8.1t compared to Q3 2011 (no comparison to Q4 2010, unfortunately), to 75.7t.

Are you guys doing anything else apart from the so called soooo boring PVE part to fund your ships ( you know the ones that are in your empire hangars with lots of bling fitted to boost your egos ) and never see any PVP action.











Doris Dragonbreath
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.04.04 12:59:00 - [2672]
 

Originally by: Aurelia Rei

I won't argue with your nullsec figures, but I hope your "both numbers are per person, running multiple accounts" isn't in reference to L4s as well.

Are you saying that you're making ~100 mil running anoms per hour per account (i.e. 1 hour, 5 accounts, ~500 mil ISK gained), or ~100 mil per hour total (i.e. 1 hour, 5 accounts, ~100 mil ISK gained)? Even if it's the first case, it's ridiculous that one has to spend $55 per month and have 5 computers available just to make barely more than running a L4 with one computer and one account.

And I would argue with your last statement. How many SP does it take to get a marauder with good enough skills? Surely less than it would take to be accepted into a corp in your alliance (I don't imagine you have very many half year old accounts that aren't alts)? And how hard is it to blitz L4s anyway? Everything is laid out for you on eve-survival.org. Again, I must stress this point: you don't need help to run L4s. How long would it take for someone to decide to gank me if I suddenly wandered into nullsec, all by my lonesome? Not very long, that's for sure!


It's 100 mil/h total, not per account.

As far as running level 4 missions well goes yeah it's harder. It's not all about SP and equipment, you need to actually know stuff to be good. I.e., have meaningful in game experience on subject. Cashing in LP, what to shoot when, what is "buddy agro" if you run multiple accounts, what gets you concorded etc. It's not trivial in 0.0 either but it's simpler.

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:09:00 - [2673]
 

Originally by: Indranel
... possibility that CCP wants to nerf Anoms simply because it makes it that much easier to earn plex which you can't argue every time a player earns in game $$$ to buy a plex that's like 15 bucks they don't get to rake in enough people doing it <most the people I know buy plex ingame> unless there is something I don't know about



Well, you actually *can* argue that, because it is 100% wrong...
Eve Wiki on PLEX
just to make it easier...
Originally by: Eve Wiki

Obtaining PLEX through Account Management

The following instructions are for players that wish to purchase PLEX directly from CCP using the Account Management page.

1. Log into Account Management
2. Click "Buy PLEX" in the Common Tasks column
3. Complete all fields of the PLEX Purchase Form
* You can purchase bundles of 2,4,6,8 or 12 PLEX every 24 hours
* Only one purchase per 24 hours is allowed. If a player purchases 2 PLEX, they will have to wait 24 hours to buy another batch.
* Each PLEX is valid for 30 days of game time.
* Only credit cards will be accepted as payment for PLEX.


So no, isk ---> plex is *NOT* the issue...

(sorry - this annoys me no end, when people accuse CCP of this...)

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:24:00 - [2674]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 04/04/2011 09:31:01
Quote:

The point is that Sanctums are already barely comparable to L4's, and anything below sanctums is significantly less. What CCP proposes is to thus make sure that empirebears have all the isk, because nullbears are now even LESS able to make isk by comparison, and are more likely to lose it.



Since the ISK generated is too much, the most logical option would be to ALSO make L4 so crap that the bad 0.0 anomalies seem good in comparison.

You know we'll end up there...

After all, farming hi sec roids is not much different than farming hi sec NPCs which is also not _that_ incredibly different farming 0.0 NPCs in blue NAP.

The first yields crap already, the second should be nerfed to yield crap, the third should be nerfed to yield double than crap.


... and making having a carrier become a coveted privilege again like it has been.


which then would defeat the purpose of the whole patch which is to make the "crap" 0.0 a stepping stone to build to attack alliances whih are richer and more powerful for their ratting space.

this is where all the arguments FOR this change tend to fall to pieces. wars started to acquire better truesec ratting space. yet ccp greyscale seems to think somehow they will be in the future. yet to afford those wars players need isk, especially "new" alliances. its just a really illogical argument.

Aurelia Rei
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:42:00 - [2675]
 

Edited by: Aurelia Rei on 04/04/2011 13:47:55
Originally by: Doris Dragonbreath
Originally by: Aurelia Rei

I won't argue with your nullsec figures, but I hope your "both numbers are per person, running multiple accounts" isn't in reference to L4s as well.

Are you saying that you're making ~100 mil running anoms per hour per account (i.e. 1 hour, 5 accounts, ~500 mil ISK gained), or ~100 mil per hour total (i.e. 1 hour, 5 accounts, ~100 mil ISK gained)? Even if it's the first case, it's ridiculous that one has to spend $55 per month and have 5 computers available just to make barely more than running a L4 with one computer and one account.

And I would argue with your last statement. How many SP does it take to get a marauder with good enough skills? Surely less than it would take to be accepted into a corp in your alliance (I don't imagine you have very many half year old accounts that aren't alts)? And how hard is it to blitz L4s anyway? Everything is laid out for you on eve-survival.org. Again, I must stress this point: you don't need help to run L4s. How long would it take for someone to decide to gank me if I suddenly wandered into nullsec, all by my lonesome? Not very long, that's for sure!


It's 100 mil/h total, not per account.

As far as running level 4 missions well goes yeah it's harder. It's not all about SP and equipment, you need to actually know stuff to be good. I.e., have meaningful in game experience on subject. Cashing in LP, what to shoot when, what is "buddy agro" if you run multiple accounts, what gets you concorded etc. It's not trivial in 0.0 either but it's simpler.


Sorry, my questions re: L4s were rhetorical. ;) I meant, from my experience, it didn't take much time to get into a marauder and start making very good cash. Perhaps I've overestimated you nullsec people. =P I'll concede, however, that I wouldn't be able to safely manage more than one toon running L4s, let alone 5, but I really think you're overrating mission-running. It wasn't hard to piece together how to run L4s most efficiently, and figuring out what gives an acceptable return on LP wasn't that much harder, either. The missions themselves are so simple and boring it's hard not to "get it" after the first try or two. Perhaps the actual PVE combat in nullsec is simpler, but it seems there are other things to learn, i.e. how to get around nullsec safely, how to avoid camps, etc.

If your 100 mil/hour via the use of 5 accounts is the norm, then the next thing CCP will need to do is nerf L4 mission income to bring the two back into parity. It's ridiculous that you need to expend so much effort and money just to make a bit more than L4s.

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:51:00 - [2676]
 

Edited by: Skaarl on 04/04/2011 13:52:14
Originally by: bitters much
Edited by: bitters much on 04/04/2011 13:25:58
Ze tears must flow, keep em comming NC bears Laughing

To add some content:

Maybe all you poor 0.0 scrubs should read the "[Devblog] keep on hunting your enemies"

Quote: Bounty prizes up 8.1t compared to Q3 2011 (no comparison to Q4 2010, unfortunately), to 75.7t.

Are you guys doing anything else apart from the so called soooo boring PVE part to fund your ships ( you know the ones that are in your empire hangars with lots of bling fitted to boost your egos ) and never see any PVP action.













with the playerbase growing by 9% and the amount of mission rewards growing by 3.7% it is hardly accurate to say this is due solely to too many people ratting in nullsec. also to answer your question... look at the eve-kil top 20. i am not in anyway saying these are the l33test pvpers in the game. but the alliances you like to continuously calla bunch of carebears who do nothing but rat all day long make up a good chunk of that list.

RabbidFerret
Kinetic Cartel
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:53:00 - [2677]
 

Originally by: Imouto Tan

Maxed with all relevant skills, mid-tier deaspace fit tengu, missile implants, I make about 25m ticks (75m/h) in Sanctums. (What some in this thread refer to as "blizting + nicely fitted gankboat, abundant skillset and intensive in game focus.")
Think I can replace a 1.5-2B carrier in 2 to 3 hours?
Hell, most nullsec grunts can't even do what I do. So what, if you can't PLEX your way into a maxed tengu toon a 1.5B HAM tengu, don't go into nullsec?

The point is that Sanctums are already barely comparable to L4's, and anything below sanctums is significantly less. What CCP proposes is to thus make sure that empirebears have all the isk, because nullbears are now even LESS able to make isk by comparison, and are more likely to lose it.

So, yes Lost'In'Space, he doesn't want to grind. He doesn't want to grind because
1) For the Nth time, Level 4's give a lot of ISK, and only sanctum COMPARES to it. Not even beats it by any reasonable margin, just merely holds up to comparison. Anything below, and you're better off with L4's.
2) 0.0 has more ISK sinks.
3) Go [explitive] yourself.

-1/10 troll


This is the most constructive comment I've seen so far.

Lt Pizi
Gallente
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.04.04 13:53:00 - [2678]
 

Edited by: Lt Pizi on 04/04/2011 13:55:20
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 04/04/2011 03:33:47

you ccp guys do know most modern alliances reimburse fleet ships and so the actual trusec of a staging system has absolutely no impact upon the combat strength/ability to fight of an alliance at war, right?




hihihihi
here you have it from your glorious CSM
this argument makes 90 % of the posts invalid

now to income from sanctums

i did a few when we were in fountain and on my combat fitted carrier the highest tick was 18m
you can easily double that if you run a dedicated ship

a corpmate wanted to proof that you can make 1b a day with sanctums and he did ... thats PURE ISK injected into eve , no escalation no salvaging or loot

so 4 days of ratting can sport your account for a WHOLE YEAR

we did run a few corp ops to make isk (semi succesfull cause most got bored after the 3 sanctum) but it neeted 10b isk over the weekend with ease
thats 1 freekeng mom every other week or 1 ti t every month

1 sunctum sports you what ? 3 of your ****ty drakes you like to fly ? so no wonder you can kill ppl and they keep respawning over and over like mindless npc

will this change be the end of all changes hope not because isolated it doesnt change much

oh edit : after PL left fountain I DID NOT LOOSE A SINGLE SHIP in our home constelation ... it was perfectly safe to rat ther .. enemies were reported 20 jumps away .....





Gimmy Rotten
Posted - 2011.04.04 14:02:00 - [2679]
 

Tomorrow CCP will patch on the game !

Yeah !
/me waves !

what will happened ?

> some players (not so much methink, you and I are addicted mofos) will stop playing EvE, cool, less lag, less macrobots and less whiners; so we'll get a more mature community, that's a good point for EvE's futur.
> some players will rethink how they will have to earn isks, great ! they'll think again... and for many it will be for the first time since they went into nullsec !!!
> some players will start to party ! (not me, I live in WH and never chain/farm 0.0 anos and no I don't pilot cap ships and yes I've always paid my subscription to play the game, I never bought a plex IG to play (less farm to do, so more fun playing; for me EvE is not about gaining less or more XXM isk/hour).
> some small alliances will disband, if their powerblocs don't diminish their rental fees.
> some greater alliances will disband, too many renters leaving the area.
> 0.0 carebears will go towards the high truesec systems or go back to empire.
> Wars will begin.
> 0.0 Farmers will abandon large parts of nullsec, so, the lower truesec systems will become places to go for empire corps interested to discover nullsec, and it will start creating a movement from empire, a dynamic, to get access to the best nullsec systems.
> Smaller alliances will have to regroup to get down powerblocs, and so on.

Again, GJ CCP.

you can all flame me, my crystal ball never fails !

o7


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.04.04 14:04:00 - [2680]
 

Originally by: RabbidFerret
Originally by: Imouto Tan

Maxed with all relevant skills, mid-tier deaspace fit tengu, missile implants, I make about 25m ticks (75m/h) in Sanctums. (What some in this thread refer to as "blizting + nicely fitted gankboat, abundant skillset and intensive in game focus.")
Think I can replace a 1.5-2B carrier in 2 to 3 hours?
Hell, most nullsec grunts can't even do what I do. So what, if you can't PLEX your way into a maxed tengu toon a 1.5B HAM tengu, don't go into nullsec?

The point is that Sanctums are already barely comparable to L4's, and anything below sanctums is significantly less. What CCP proposes is to thus make sure that empirebears have all the isk, because nullbears are now even LESS able to make isk by comparison, and are more likely to lose it.

So, yes Lost'In'Space, he doesn't want to grind. He doesn't want to grind because
1) For the Nth time, Level 4's give a lot of ISK, and only sanctum COMPARES to it. Not even beats it by any reasonable margin, just merely holds up to comparison. Anything below, and you're better off with L4's.
2) 0.0 has more ISK sinks.
3) Go [explitive] yourself.

-1/10 troll


This is the most constructive comment I've seen so far.


Except that, like most of the blatant liars in this thread, he's completely handwaving away the 10/10 escalations and faction spawns that appear in anomalies. Which, when I was doing them fairly casually last summer, were good for an extra bill a week or so

Doris Dragonbreath
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.04.04 14:05:00 - [2681]
 

Originally by: Aurelia Rei

Sorry, my questions re: L4s were rhetorical. ;) I meant, from my experience, it didn't take much time to get into a marauder and start making very good cash. Perhaps I've overestimated you nullsec people. =P I'll concede, however, that I wouldn't be able to safely manage more than one toon running L4s, let alone 5, but I really think you're overrating mission-running. It wasn't hard to piece together how to run L4s most efficiently, and figuring out what gives an acceptable return on LP wasn't that much harder, either. The missions themselves are so simple and boring it's hard not to "get it" after the first try or two. Perhaps the actual PVE combat in nullsec is simpler, but it seems there are other things to learn, i.e. how to get around nullsec safely, how to avoid camps, etc.

If your 100 mil/hour via the use of 5 accounts is the norm, then the next thing CCP will need to do is nerf L4 mission income to bring the two back into parity. It's ridiculous that you need to expend so much effort and money just to make a bit more than L4s.


TBH 5 accounts are approx as 2 to 3 accounts as far as actual effectivity goes in PvE be it then in level 4 missions or anoms. Number "5" was just the top number of accounts I have used. Two accounts is kinda optimal, you can still have meaningful control over them, three is already pushing it but one ncan still do it. Above three ... well thats rather ineffective already and one has to start doing heavy compromises. For example for five I had to use FoF missiles (yeah not that good idea) and ended up as good income as using three accounts.

And yeah, it does not take that much time if one knows what he is doing ;) I can make 3 mil SP chararacter do level 4 missions with acceptable effectivity, but thats bcos I know exactly what I am doing in there an why. For "average joe" however bar seems to be somewhat higher.

The number of "approx 15% more" is assuming one is using roughly the same number of accounts in both anoms and in lev 4 missions, they scale roughly the same.. to some extent, in those missions with some travel more accounts dont help ofc, but the combat phase of mission is about the same. The number is btw for T2 fitted BS in 0.0 vs Faction fitted Marauder in hi sec lev 4 (in particular it was Carrier + 2x Abbadons, with carrier just sitting there and transfering cap and reps vs Nightmare + Golemwith faction fits in hi sec).

And I think we can agree in there that there is indeed other things one in 0.0 needs to learn fast for survival. I was more referring to the PvE side ofc, that actual anomaly content is simpler/easier than higher end level 4 missions.

Lt Pizi
Gallente
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.04.04 15:14:00 - [2682]
 

Edited by: Lt Pizi on 04/04/2011 15:16:16


look at the eve-kil top 20. i am not in anyway saying these are the l33test pvpers in the game. but the alliances you like to continuously calla bunch of carebears who do nothing but rat all day long make up a good chunk of that list.


you are aware that 1 ship dead counts on 5-10 alliances .....
and how big is the NC block ? 60-70k ?
and your fleets are what 1k ?

so basicly 1% of your block is fighting

gimme a break

IchBinEinTestChar
Posted - 2011.04.04 15:34:00 - [2683]
 

You know, the whole thing would be entirely different if they'd just honestly say that we generate too much money in Anos and that this needs fixing. And that they lower the income in level 4s at the same time as well. That would still generate some hate but not as much as stating some goals and then coming up with measurements where only very few can even imagine that they will have the desired outcome.
I'm not sure what the aim of this dev blog was but it's neither informative enough so that we could form a solid oppinion nor promosing in any way to be excited about.

I agree that anos are boring and that it isn't good that systems are not too different. But what Greyscale supposed isn't going to make anos more interesting nor will the big blocks suddenly fall appart. They will review how much they can extort from their renters and give them probably a few bones and that's it. Will probably take 1-2 weeks and it's done.
These changes also almost completely invalidate the investment in iHUB upgrades.

IMO Anos haven't been that well designed from the start. There are only 2 (up to 5 if you're generous) that are interesting, the rest are filler noone cares about. (Not even people with 3mio SP that have just jumped to 00. They will make more money ratting with less risk.) There's also the point that only lvl5 military upgrade is actually useful (4 isn't too bad but really, you want 5). It's also quite easy to achieve and keep. For industry it's completely different. Even lvl1 is useful and lvl5 is excrusiatingly hard to get. The proposed changes would make the upgrades almost useless in some (many) systems and shift the focus almost completely to true sec.

So the goal should be IMO:
- let system upgrades and true sec together contribute (meaningfully!) to system performance
- reduce ISK faucets (bounties, moongoo, lvl4s, and whatever else generates too much money for your taste)
- make anos more diverse and interesting (they will always be rather boring and repetitive but at least try to get them to the same level as lvl4 missions)

What I'd do:
- number of anos in a system depends on true sec and military upgrade
- when one is finished a new one is randomly selected, chances depend on true sec and military upgrade
- spawns depend on true sec and military upgrade
- redesign the smaller anos to spawn better rats (if true sec + upgrades are ok) and be more challenging/rewarding (but not as good as the big ones)
- less bounty, more loot
- escalation and faction spawns also depend on true sec and military upgrade
- higher level upgrades should be harder to achieve (currently almost every system that is used by a corp is at lvl5, this should drop to 3-4 unless you are really dedicated. Kinda like industry.)

Avallarion Selara
Posted - 2011.04.04 15:36:00 - [2684]
 

I wish I could edit the char I posted with... Not used to this board at all... Sorry.

ShadowsMirror
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:23:00 - [2685]
 

I can understand reducing the high end anomalies, but taking them away completely from entire constellations is somewhat absurd, the change is simply staggering. The only benefit of living there is access to basic 0.0 belts & signatures. A somewhat small plate for growth. Thankfully, our system will still have at least 1 of each.

best of luck to those without....

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:31:00 - [2686]
 

Originally by: Lt Pizi
Edited by: Lt Pizi on 04/04/2011 15:16:16


look at the eve-kil top 20. i am not in anyway saying these are the l33test pvpers in the game. but the alliances you like to continuously calla bunch of carebears who do nothing but rat all day long make up a good chunk of that list.


you are aware that 1 ship dead counts on 5-10 alliances .....
and how big is the NC block ? 60-70k ?
and your fleets are what 1k ?

so basicly 1% of your block is fighting

gimme a break


according to the quarterly not even close to 60 or 70k. more like 18 or 19k.

Lt Pizi
Gallente
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:38:00 - [2687]
 

im talkin about chars , you accounts prolly

but is 5% of the accounts fighting realy better ?

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:41:00 - [2688]
 

Originally by: Lt Pizi
hihihihi
here you have it from your glorious CSM
this argument makes 90 % of the posts invalid

Did you mean 90% of his posts, or 90% posts of this thread?

Helios Xise
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:41:00 - [2689]
 

Originally by: ShadowsMirror
I can understand reducing the high end anomalies, but taking them away completely from entire constellations is somewhat absurd, the change is simply staggering. The only benefit of living there is access to basic 0.0 belts & signatures. A somewhat small plate for growth...
best of luck to those without....


Your right about that, but than again, i think this all is a CVA plot. Think about it, with no sancs in whole of Providence, according to CCP there will be noone to fight over this whole region. So CVA-Ex-Leader can return. (troll)

Its rediculus, but to me this just proves the indepth knowledge of how players actually play the game they develop

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:44:00 - [2690]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 04/04/2011 16:45:09
Quote:

this is where all the arguments FOR this change tend to fall to pieces. wars started to acquire better truesec ratting space. yet ccp greyscale seems to think somehow they will be in the future. yet to afford those wars players need isk, especially "new" alliances. its just a really illogical argument.



It's illogical to you, because you see it thru the blinders of an average, skill-less renter alliance who just believes in blobs and ISK = EvE win.

The real small PvP corps (sometimes not even organized in alliances) were those:

- making EvE a name.

- making EvE fun, since small-ish = agile = roams = best fun possible in this game.

- making lots of non blobby, CPU friendly pew pew.

- burning thru as much money they could afford and convert it in BCs, HACs and BSes that would promptly be busted shortly afterwards => healthy economy.


Then came jump bridges and since then King Idiot dominates the game. The one who brings more low quality rent(er)-a-blob wins. The one with the fatter ISK wins.

This is insanely damaging to EvE, the same design stupidity has killed other MMOs that peaked at above EvE max playerbase.


If anything, Grayscale is going for some compromise, half hassed nerf that won't fix the situation but just **** people off without long term heavy benefits.


They need to nerf jumpbridges, to make logistics count again, they need to just destroy blobs in order to restore game playability and fun.

This also applies to hi sec. Jita is a growing cancer. While it's engrossing for the CCP techs to gloat about how good they are at making Jita able to sustain the next zillion of concurrent players, they are just destructuring the game into some super centralized yawn game where you either live in The Forge or it's crap.

Lt Pizi
Gallente
Dark-Rising
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:44:00 - [2691]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: Lt Pizi
hihihihi
here you have it from your glorious CSM
this argument makes 90 % of the posts invalid

Did you mean 90% of his posts, or 90% posts of this thread?

i mean 90% of this thread ( thats not my number they claiming that 90% are against this change and the main reason that they are against is that they cannot afford a ship for fighting anymore ...)

Besoina
Posted - 2011.04.04 16:59:00 - [2692]
 

There are a % of the population unaware of the changes, definitely not expecting a change of this magnitude. When they log in after the changes are made, you can expect the forums to explode with quite a few annoyed & probably bitter customers demanding an explanation. To which they will discover this threadnaught which will baloon with the likes never seen since they removed carriers ability to pack cargo fitted iteron V.

**** is about to hit the fan...

Bala Aodh
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:08:00 - [2693]
 

ShockedCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad

Jenny Kickaz
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:18:00 - [2694]
 

I play maybe one hour a day. I have a job, go to college and have a wife; these responsibilities limit my game time. I am happy to be involved in a 0.0 corp and alliance that gives me the freedom to pew pew with them. I need to be smart about what ships I take with me, so to not break my bank.

These changes to anomolies will ruin my ability to play eve. Honestly, if I can not do 1 sanctum a day (our systems are -0.17max) I wont be able to make the isk to PvP.

Bottom Line.

I am not the player that has played for 8 years, has billions or trillions saved up, and can do whatever I want. I am the guy struggling to play and pay for it with isk.

If I watch my wallet empty, I will just quit eve, and leave a good comment for Greyscale and others. They are just ruining the game for a good selection of the population that doesnt have time to play 3+ hours a day.

bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:26:00 - [2695]
 

Originally by: Skaarl
Originally by: Lt Pizi
Edited by: Lt Pizi on 04/04/2011 15:16:16


look at the eve-kil top 20. i am not in anyway saying these are the l33test pvpers in the game. but the alliances you like to continuously calla bunch of carebears who do nothing but rat all day long make up a good chunk of that list.


you are aware that 1 ship dead counts on 5-10 alliances .....
and how big is the NC block ? 60-70k ?
and your fleets are what 1k ?

so basicly 1% of your block is fighting

gimme a break


according to the quarterly not even close to 60 or 70k. more like 18 or 19k.



the last time i checked the official NC nap list it was 49k blues, so please... Laughing

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:43:00 - [2696]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 17:44:26
Originally by: Jenny Kickaz
I play maybe one hour a day. I have a job, go to college and have a wife; these responsibilities limit my game time. I am happy to be involved in a 0.0 corp and alliance that gives me the freedom to pew pew with them. I need to be smart about what ships I take with me, so to not break my bank.

These changes to anomolies will ruin my ability to play eve. Honestly, if I can not do 1 sanctum a day (our systems are -0.17max) I wont be able to make the isk to PvP.

Bottom Line.

I am not the player that has played for 8 years, has billions or trillions saved up, and can do whatever I want. I am the guy struggling to play and pay for it with isk.

If I watch my wallet empty, I will just quit eve, and leave a good comment for Greyscale and others. They are just ruining the game for a good selection of the population that doesnt have time to play 3+ hours a day.


You do realize that running sanctums is exactly the wrong way to finance playing Eve this way?

-Liang

Ed: Send me an evemail and I'll outline some basic tips that can let 5-10 minutes twice a week finance your eve playing and as many PVP losses as a competent player is likely to have.

bp920091
Killer Koalas
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:52:00 - [2697]
 

Originally by: Lt Pizi
im talkin about chars , you accounts prolly

but is 5% of the accounts fighting realy better ?



just throwing these numbers out there, the North has a total population of 19,659 (page 9 of the QEN, this is Characters on Active Accounts). Assuming that the average 0.0 player has 2 accounts (probably more, but im feeling generous), the NC has around 10,000 accounts in it. Oh, and the regions that are considered the north are (Geminate, Vale of the Silent, Tribute, Venal, Branch, and Tenal). So if you take the two fronts that the NC currently has (west and east), you have approx 5,000 accounts per front (simple division by two). Considering the numbers that I see in fleet fights, which are roughly 2000 on high demand operations (LXQ2-T, O2O-2X, and other major fights), this is not anywhere close to the 1% pvp participation rate that you claim. This number may even be higher than 2000, as the NC operates in ALL timezones, so you have to at least double the numbers of people fighting to get an accurate account.

So, what you can take from this is that out of the 10,000 accounts residing in the NC, approx 8,000 are people who pvp (at least part time), giving a participation rate of 80%. Try and do a little bit of research before you throw claims around, all this does is decrease the chance that people will take you seriously.

Oh, if you also want to take a look at the production in 0.0, take a look at page 36 in the QEN, it shows the mass produced in all regions. Factor in the amount of supercarriers and titans produced in 0.0, and the north doesnt look to "carebear" does it?

For those of you wishing to verify my claims yourself, here is the link to the most recent QEN http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf
Any wishes to verify kills or battles can be found on most killboards, such as Battleclinic.com, check for yourself if you do not believe me.

Laodell
Gallente
United Brothers Of Eve
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:55:00 - [2698]
 

You know, now that I think about it, I never really cared about Sanctums or Havens.

I always ran the other Anomalies that everyone else ignored, and used the market to pad my wallet. Only reason I rat is to get my sec status back.

That said, it's still not going to alter game play.

- Dell.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:55:00 - [2699]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 17:56:38
Originally by: Aurelia Rei

Just a few comments on your comments: =)

- It's highly likely that your typical 0.0 PVPer has been a L4 mission runner at one point in time or another; it's less likely that your typical L4 mission runner has any clue about nullsec, unless they're a highsec mission-running alt of a 0.0 PVPer, in which case that kind of goes directly to the point, no?



Then those crazy low sec people who have been to 0.0 and got disgusted with it are allowed to have an opinion? Rolling Eyes

Quote:

- You're right that there's less risk when you're part of a large coalition of blues, but that's not the entire point, no?



The point is that it should be risky to pump 100M+ raw ISK/hr into the economy. It isn't.

Quote:
Considering it's so easy to make 60-100 mil ISK per hour running L4s with far less risk than in nullsec, why would anyone not part of one of the large coalitions risk running anoms in now worthless space?


Possible, yes; easy, no. Furthermore, it's just flat easier to do it in 0.0, because converting LP is a massive PITA - and ultimately is a market that can be flooded/crashed.

Quote:
What does it say if more nullsec dwellers create highsec L4 alts to fund their PVP activities in nullsec?


I counter: what does it say when lots of carebears head to 0.0 because its almost completely safe - and then never follow up with all that "PVP" stuff?

Quote:
Whatever the ISK expectation per hour is in highsec, it needs to be higher in nullsec *for the average person* if they want to populate nullsec with more than just the large coalitions.


I might agree with you if:
- Anoms weren't destroying the economy by injecting huge amounts of raw ISK.
- 0.0 wasn't so damn safe (even if it is a player made safety).
- Personal income had anything at all to do with coalitions vs small alliances.

-Liang

Trina Forrest
Caldari
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.04.04 17:56:00 - [2700]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/04/2011 17:44:26
Originally by: Jenny Kickaz
I play maybe one hour a day. I have a job, go to college and have a wife; these responsibilities limit my game time. I am happy to be involved in a 0.0 corp and alliance that gives me the freedom to pew pew with them. I need to be smart about what ships I take with me, so to not break my bank.

These changes to anomolies will ruin my ability to play eve. Honestly, if I can not do 1 sanctum a day (our systems are -0.17max) I wont be able to make the isk to PvP.

Bottom Line.

I am not the player that has played for 8 years, has billions or trillions saved up, and can do whatever I want. I am the guy struggling to play and pay for it with isk.

If I watch my wallet empty, I will just quit eve, and leave a good comment for Greyscale and others. They are just ruining the game for a good selection of the population that doesnt have time to play 3+ hours a day.


You do realize that running sanctums is exactly the wrong way to finance playing Eve this way?

-Liang

Ed: Send me an evemail and I'll outline some basic tips that can let 5-10 minutes twice a week finance your eve playing and as many PVP losses as a competent player is likely to have.


67k? wow our numbers grow with each post truely amazing.

What you have to understand is a lot of the NC is comprised of alts, lots of spies, and various other people who DO take breaks from the game. I would say our actual unique (per person) number is closer to about 10k. If you think this is unreasonable, you would do well to consider how many people actually have 3+ accounts. I personally have 15 accounts, and no I don't rat for an income source or have super awesome moon goo.

The point is I do not invalidate how people play this game based upon my own raciest views (yes if you view carebears as a race, or pvpers, or w/e). That is what made this game great, having the ability to do what ever you wanted. Every arguement I see against it is purely 100% racism against the care bear class, or the NC for what ever reason the hatred is.

The problem is in the end this wont effect the NC, we will adapt as we always do. However the smaller guys, rofl... here is the kicker, this makes it impossible for them to get a foot hold. Where do they rat to gain isk to provide their ship reimbursement? The answer is they don't they wont even be able to afford the sov. bills. Which means in the end the NC will have very little competition in the game, and it will get boring and stagnate. This is the future I do not want for eve, as I want the game to continue to develop and become bigger. However, with the current changes I do see one way or another, subs to drop.

Which means cheaper plexes, so my operating costs go down, which means I keep more isk... So before you accuse every NC member who doesn't like these changes of being a "f'in care bear". Keep in mind some of us actually want to see more little guys out in the world of 0.0, to grow and expand into big power blocks too.

This makes the game unique, fun, and interesting.


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