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Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:39:00 - [2491]
 

Originally by: Tubolard
I assume this idea came around to reduce lag. After all when no one can afford to pvp because you took away their income there will be less 0.0 fighting.


Are you implying that anomalies are the only means for income?

oh wait, you probably meant the only means for easy income. Rolling Eyes

BinaryData
Gallente
Segmentum Solar
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:43:00 - [2492]
 

Edited by: BinaryData on 03/04/2011 07:46:06
Originally by: Tubolard
I assume this idea came around to reduce lag. After all when no one can afford to pvp because you took away their income there will be less 0.0 fighting.


CCP actually cares more about high-sec than they do nullsec. Why do you think they beefed up the servers that host High-Sec places?


If you really wanna **** CCP off.

I will be hosting a Disco Dance.

What to bring

Dominix or another battleship similar.

Massive amounts of cap boosters
SmartBombs
Resists to combat SmartBomb damage


Goal:

Crash EVE servers by spamming the Fck outta Jita with Concord.

Message me for Questions :)


Oh yeah, and for the person who said nullsec lags when you have lots of ships.. Go smack yourself in the face with the stupid paddle. OF COURSE ITS GOING TO LAG WHEN YOU HAVE 900 ****ING PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM. And it's not CLIENT lag you imbeciles, it's CCP's ****TY servers. <sarcasm>My god, my eMachine could host this game 100x better.</sarcasm>

CCP,

Sincerely **** off and die you ******ed ****ing ****s.

kthxbai

Your Lost Customer

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:50:00 - [2493]
 

Originally by: BinaryData
OF COURSE ITS GOING TO LAG WHEN YOU HAVE 900 ****ING PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM. And it's not CLIENT lag you imbeciles, it's CCP's ****TY servers.


1000 v 1000 lag is fixed, you'll see 2000 v 2000, and then it'll still be laggy. OFF TO COAD TO *****!

The real problem is the napfest, maybe they should look into not have half the 0.0 sov napped.

Dax Frey
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:54:00 - [2494]
 

Dear CCP,

For the love of all things holy....put down the crack pipe. We are begging you.

Love
Dax


Sa'Shena
Amarr
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:55:00 - [2495]
 

I disagree with this change on the principle that there was no consultation with the CSM to refine the idea or to fish for alternatives.

A lack of transparency when sweeping changes are made is never a good thing, because it sets a negative precedent for changing anything in the future, with no feedback from the customer whatsoever.

BinaryData
Gallente
Segmentum Solar
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:55:00 - [2496]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: BinaryData
OF COURSE ITS GOING TO LAG WHEN YOU HAVE 900 ****ING PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM. And it's not CLIENT lag you imbeciles, it's CCP's ****TY servers.


1000 v 1000 lag is fixed, you'll see 2000 v 2000, and then it'll still be laggy. OFF TO COAD TO *****!

The real problem is the napfest, maybe they should look into not have half the 0.0 sov napped.


Eh, I dunno about the 1000 vs 1000. Last NC vs DRF fight I was at, it was terrible. Not sure if it was client lag or server lag but when you jump 50AU's, somethings up.

Sov Nap? Wtf you smokin'? You mean inactive systems that no one uses? You should have to keep a specific level to keep systems. There's soo many other things they can do.

I will be affected by this change a lot. I just moved to nullsec, and started ratting. It's a stupid change. Everything they've "Predicted" won't happen. New Alliances will be shafted because they have no places to "conquer" and set their own sov. The larger alliances will just control the good systems, and you'll be screwed.

CCP Stupidity +1
Player Intelligence -1

Stupid CCP..

Antigue
Posted - 2011.04.03 07:56:00 - [2497]
 

"'Ello 'ello 'ello, wot's goin' on 'ere then?"

Yeah we all wonder what kinda drugs you take.

"At the time we decided to go with having upgrades have the same effect everywhere, to try and maximize the potential holding capacity of nullsec and give more people reason to live out there. Having given things time to settle down and find their new equilibrium, we're now revising our opinion on this decision."

Excellent. After small alliances having planned to settle down in nullsec, spent time, effort and lots of hard earned isk, you decide that they should get patched out again. So all these guys learned was, that EvE is not a sandbox where players decisions make the rules but it is your little playground where they can loose everything over night, if some devs took the wrong drugs.

"While it's been successful in making more space more useful, it's also become a damper on conflict in nullsec. With everywhere being essentially the same in terms of the value of key resources, once you've got yourself established in one patch of space there's little incentive to move elsewhere, because there's nowhere "better" to go. This is resulting in fewer drivers for conflict, both in terms of wars of conquest and also in terms of intra-coalition power struggles."

Once again stop taking drugs. While you were sobbering on your desk completely stoned the whole EvE-Map changed. And concerning smaller alliances: They just didnīt have enough time to make enough isk, build up their super cap productions and get in enough peeps from highsec to go at war with neighbours. Not even to speak about the fact that they didnīt yet have enough time to learn how the nullsec warfare job is done propperly. So stop taking drugs or at least donīt smoke and code.

"It's also a concern that by making the traditionally less-valuable areas of space viable for long-term settlement, we're depriving new organizations of somewhere to start out."

Fecking stop taking drugs. You state Dominionīs been successful in making more space useful. So who do you think did use this more useful space other then "new organizations" that came from highsec and settled down in nullsec?

"We're pretty happy with the increase in useful space, but having a densely populated nullsec is less important to us than having an interesting, vibrant and entertaining nullsec. Therefore, we're making some changes"

In sum you just tell the newly settled organizations to f*** off after they have made their decisions to spent billions after billions in their systems. And how in the world if you are not over any edge stoned should there be an interesting, vibrant and entertaining nullsec with this ītarded patch? Imagine there is war and noone is there?
But you are right you can take out your frig gang, run through 80% of nullsec, make a congo at any planet for hours and noone will ever disturb you. But then again you would only do so, if you really took the wrong drugs.


"Expected consequences

* Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space"


Yes highsec. Some are already taking down their towers in nullsec. Well played CCP.


"In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals"

Yes more blob warfare about MOONS! With this sov mechanic any alliance would be completely stupid to go for sanctums as this would be a tremendous isk loss for no gain. They will just send peeps to mission run. You will make the big alliances fatter and annihilate the small ones. Once again well played in making nullsec interesting and vibrant.


"Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec"

Yeah if they really take the same stuff as you did and if they are into making a congo around their POS. For anything else this space will be worthless.


"Coalitions will be marginally less stable"
Bulls***. They will reduce some numbers and be even more stable.

BinaryData
Gallente
Segmentum Solar
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:03:00 - [2498]
 

Originally by: Antigue
"'Ello 'ello 'ello, wot's goin' on 'ere then?"



Well said. I couldn't agree more.


P.S. Disco Domi idea good or bad? Could I get banned from it?

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:06:00 - [2499]
 

Originally by: BinaryData
Eh, I dunno about the 1000 vs 1000. Last NC vs DRF fight I was at, it was terrible. Not sure if it was client lag or server lag but when you jump 50AU's, somethings up.

Sov Nap? Wtf you smokin'? You mean inactive systems that no one uses? You should have to keep a specific level to keep systems. There's soo many other things they can do.



I have no idea how this change is suppose to help new alliance, maybe they think since poor quality -0.25 to 0.00 is unattractive to larger alliance, new alliance might stand a chance at keeping it or pay less rent, whatever. But I somehow doubt this will help at all.

As for the napfest comment, someone posted about how NC has like 50k players or something like that. Second highest is DRF, with something like 30k.

Disco Domi? what exactly are you planning to do with it? kill some frigs/shuttles in Jita? You do know that Jita 4-4 has big docking range? Your resis on it will be the least of the problem when concord shows up 7 seconds later and insta nuke your ship.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:08:00 - [2500]
 

Sure this move off CCP is going to have many additional bad effects to those they want to achieve but reading this:

Quote:

For the past few years, several of the changes made to the game have been focused on getting more players to move from high-sec into low or null sec space.



I am quite sure CCP did not want to move former L4 bears in 0.0, they wanted to move the truly PvP players in 0.0.

Something happened: at CCP they seem to have not noticed how modern MMO playerbase is made of weaklings in search for a comfy place to farm.

So at CCP they expected wannabe Rambos to magically go to 0.0, grind anomalies and get enabled to furious PvP, where destruction keeps ISK flow in check and increase manufacturing volume of soon-to-explode new ships.

What happened instead?

That wannabe Winnie the Poos went to 0.0, grind like crazy and bot like crazy and generate 4-5 times more income than what they lose. Result: PLEXes skyrocketed, inflation started going out of control, EvE turned into WoR (World Of Renter) where the same system I'd pay 250M (including 1 mediocre moon) now is 3-4B a month.

CCP went for 0.0 Rambos and all what they got is this Winnie the Poo shirt. Thus they are burning the bear.

Antigue
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:17:00 - [2501]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Sure this move off CCP is going to have many additional bad effects to those they want to achieve but reading this:

Quote:

For the past few years, several of the changes made to the game have been focused on getting more players to move from high-sec into low or null sec space.



I am quite sure CCP did not want to move former L4 bears in 0.0, they wanted to move the truly PvP players in 0.0.

Something happened: at CCP they seem to have not noticed how modern MMO playerbase is made of weaklings in search for a comfy place to farm.

So at CCP they expected wannabe Rambos to magically go to 0.0, grind anomalies and get enabled to furious PvP, where destruction keeps ISK flow in check and increase manufacturing volume of soon-to-explode new ships.

What happened instead?

That wannabe Winnie the Poos went to 0.0, grind like crazy and bot like crazy and generate 4-5 times more income than what they lose. Result: PLEXes skyrocketed, inflation started going out of control, EvE turned into WoR (World Of Renter) where the same system I'd pay 250M (including 1 mediocre moon) now is 3-4B a month.

CCP went for 0.0 Rambos and all what they got is this Winnie the Poo shirt. Thus they are burning the bear.


55 kills in lowsec... I rofled! Nice troll

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:22:00 - [2502]
 

Originally by: Antigue
55 kills in lowsec... I rofled! Nice troll


Not everyone participates in 1000 v 1000 to be in on 1000+ killmails doing 0.01% damages.

Antigue
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:24:00 - [2503]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: Antigue
55 kills in lowsec... I rofled! Nice troll


Not everyone participates in 1000 v 1000 to be in on 1000+ killmails doing 0.01% damages.


Learn to read killboards!
And now go on playing fanboy for changes that doesnīt affect you in any way.

Squirrle
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:25:00 - [2504]
 

Ok this is already having an effect

Last night usually at least 51 thousand users on line when I logged in only 47 thousand users that was around 8pm last night

So well done CCP looks like your improvements to the game are already starting to have an effect with people not logging. Well I suppose at least the lag will get better in the remaining fleet fights.

has CCP greyscale tried living in 0.0 for a long time there is always roaming gangs around but you will not engage if the odds are against you this will happen even more as corps drop sov and go back to just ratting and only have one or two people in a system. Against a t2 nano gang with logi support you would be stupid to engage that with 2 people

One other thing look at the costs for a rental corp:-

500 million rent for a crap system from one of the large alliances
1 billion to purchase and ihub and install the upgrades
86 million every 2 weeks for the Concord sov cost

That is just for one system with basic upgrades why would a corp do it unless they have really high corp tax. that will then put off people wanting to join the corp as they can easily just set up a small mission corp with zero tax doing l4's lot more isk for those nice shinny ships

So no Corp would want to stay in 0.0 unless they have a lot of members that are always active. Sorry not going to happen for new corps/alliances just getting started

If this does go ahead I see most of null sec being empty with in 2 weeks to a month

Lots of accounts not being extended past the current game time already on them.

Bots being set up in every non sov claimed system in ratting drakes and ravens with cloaks

with in one year Eve online will be close to collapsing an MMO is based on people in the game the more active people you lose the less interaction starts a very slippery slope downward but never mind high sec mission hubs here we come. Unless I can get into one of the nice large Alliances that will be left with all the good space then yippee.





Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:28:00 - [2505]
 

Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 03/04/2011 08:45:11
Originally by: Antigue
Learn to read killboards!
And now go on playing fanboy for changes that doesnīt affect you in any way.


I don't care enough to look up how much kills you got, it was a general statement, and yes it does affect me, PLEX prices will go down, some of my friends can play without having to compete with 0.0 carebears who farm anomalies.

Antigue
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:42:00 - [2506]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 03/04/2011 08:32:50
Originally by: Antigue
Learn to read killboards!
And now go on playing fanboy for changes that doesnīt affect you in any way.


I don't care enough to look up how much kills you got, it was a general statement, and yes it does affect me, PLEX prices will go down, some of my friends can play without having to compete with 0.0 carebears who farm anomalies.



http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=lost%27in%27space#losses

says it all....

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:46:00 - [2507]
 

Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 03/04/2011 08:47:57
Originally by: Antigue
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=lost%27in%27space#losses

says it all....


I just looked up Vaerah Vahrokha kills, 55 kills is a lifetime kills, not all of it in low-sec, some were in 0.0, maybe you are the one who should learn to read killboards.

Maybe I should join a 0.0 alliance, and get in on 1000 kills too. Laughing

Antigue
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:55:00 - [2508]
 

Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 03/04/2011 08:47:57

Maybe I should join a 0.0 alliance, and get in on 1000 kills too. Laughing


Yes maybe you should live in nullsec prior to talking about life in nullsec.
But hey there is bad news on the doorstep for you:
No bigger alliance will take you with your stats and the smaller ones will get patched out.
But Im happy to hear that your carebearing friends will have an easier life to get their playtime for free.

Hrdlodus
Gallente
Bohemian Veterans
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.04.03 08:59:00 - [2509]
 

now i get it why CCP is doing this! players in 0.0 wont have any income, so everyone there is going to start paying subs with real cash. and because ppl in 0.0 need ISK to PvP and do other stuff and wont be able to make some via anoms, everyone will start buying PLEXes too!! and here we go CCP is richer and we are more screwd. it feels like home all right Twisted Evil

Lost'In'Space
Posted - 2011.04.03 09:00:00 - [2510]
 

Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 03/04/2011 09:03:03
Originally by: Antigue
Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 03/04/2011 08:47:57

Maybe I should join a 0.0 alliance, and get in on 1000 kills too. Laughing


Yes maybe you should live in nullsec prior to talking about life in nullsec.
But hey there is bad news on the doorstep for you:
No bigger alliance will take you with your stats and the smaller ones will get patched out.
But Im happy to hear that your carebearing friends will have an easier life to get their playtime for free.



yeah, all alliances check killboard stats before accepting players because individual skills really matter in a blob warfare Rolling Eyes

hi/lo-sec carebears > nullsec carebears

Antigue
Posted - 2011.04.03 09:04:00 - [2511]
 

Originally by: Hrdlodus
now i get it why CCP is doing this! players in 0.0 wont have any income, so everyone there is going to start paying subs with real cash. and because ppl in 0.0 need ISK to PvP and do other stuff and wont be able to make some via anoms, everyone will start buying PLEXes too!! and here we go CCP is richer and we are more screwd. it feels like home all right Twisted Evil


How dare you?
Nullsec will become more intersting and vibrant.
80% of the systems will be empty and you can easily explore any plaet in there congo any moon and orbit any stargate for hours.
Doesnīt feel that tickling, interesting and vibrant for you?
Take drugs and it will.
Promised! CCP Greyscale tried it for the last few months and he still got his happy smile in his face.

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.04.03 09:10:00 - [2512]
 

Originally by: Sa'Shena
I disagree with this change on the principle that there was no consultation with the CSM to refine the idea or to fish for alternatives.

A lack of transparency when sweeping changes are made is never a good thing, because it sets a negative precedent for changing anything in the future, with no feedback from the customer whatsoever.



I agree with this dude.

John Maynard Keynes
Posted - 2011.04.03 09:15:00 - [2513]
 

Quote:

What's next?

You're seeing this first because it was an obvious target that's relatively easy to implement. We're conducting an ongoing review of nullsec issues at the moment, with items on the agenda including force projection tweaks, conquest mechanic adjustments and improvements to the nullsec industrial landscape. Keep your eyes peeled for more updates as the year progresses, and let us know in the comments if there are any other areas in need of some love that you'd like to see brought to the top of our priorities.



I am still hoping that this change will make more sense in combination with changes to come...

Namolun
Posted - 2011.04.03 09:42:00 - [2514]
 

Originally by: bp920091

A way that a positive change could be made, and still implementing the changes that they would like to see is improving the anomalies by security status, but not nerfing the lowsecurity areas (0.0 - -0.4). They could do this by increasing the number of faction drops even more in high security anomalies. This would still make deep 0.0 still very valuable, without killing the ability for small alliances to actually fight back against huge power-blocks.



100% SIGNED!!!

This is the right way!

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.04.03 09:51:00 - [2515]
 

Originally by: John Maynard Keynes
Quote:

What's next?

You're seeing this first because it was an obvious target that's relatively easy to implement. We're conducting an ongoing review of nullsec issues at the moment, with items on the agenda including force projection tweaks, conquest mechanic adjustments and improvements to the nullsec industrial landscape. Keep your eyes peeled for more updates as the year progresses, and let us know in the comments if there are any other areas in need of some love that you'd like to see brought to the top of our priorities.



I am still hoping that this change will make more sense in combination with changes to come...


+1

People need to stop freaking out until the patch is actually implemented, and we hear from the devs and the csm. But I think this really is a slap in the face to the CSM lol.

Chup Chup
Posted - 2011.04.03 10:00:00 - [2516]
 

On a more positive note, atleast we will have "new forums" on which to complain about the total ****up ccp just made.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.04.03 10:04:00 - [2517]
 

Quote:
My general plea for nulsec is to keep things dangerous. Individual pilots should be able to make more than in any Empire activity


Individual pilots already can make more in null sec than in empire doing exactly the same activity, before taking into account infrastructure upgrades. With the entrapment array you'll have endless anomalies to farm. The folks complaining that null sec anomalies don't raise as much per hour as hisec missions, really need to get their facts together. Go run missions in hisec with a T2-fit Raven, then go run non-sanctum/haven anomalies in a T2-fit Raven. Your income will be higher in null sec. Now go run missions in an officer-fit Machariel, and run those anomalies in the same fitting. Your income will be higher in null sec.

The rats in null sec anomalies are easier to get to, and have similar bounties to the best rats in L4 missions.

If you haven't got the infrastructure and social networking in order to keep your anomaly-running ship safe in null sec, perhaps you need to make more friends? Null sec will either be dangerous, or have comparable income from ratting to hisec. You can't have both: if null sec is dangerous, you will lose your ratting ship to PvP. If null sec is high-income, you'll spend all your time ratting and spend none actually engaging in PvP.

Note that blowing up rats is only one way of making ISK in null sec. One option is to get yourself a jump freighter and ship useful items down to nullsec to sell at a significant markup over Jita prices. Another is to participate in PI to produce things that are in demand.

For those who need further education on making ISK, try the Making ISK guide in the EVElopedia.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.04.03 10:12:00 - [2518]
 

Originally by: BinaryData
CCP actually cares more about high-sec than they do nullsec. Why do you think they beefed up the servers that host High-Sec places?


CCP have beefed up the Jita node because that's where everyone goes to buy stuff. People keep piling into Jita until the node lags. The faster they make the node, the more people pile into the system.

Can you point to the devblog where they've indicated that they have "beefed up" the servers that host hisec at the expense of nullsec?

Now go listen to the virtual worlds presentation from Fanfest where they talk about automatically monitoring for events such as structures being reinforced, SBUs being anchored, etc, and are instituting automated processes to move the nodes with expected fleet fights onto reinforced nodes. This doesn't do anything to help hisec at all!

Still think that CCP prioritizes hisec over nullsec?

Quote:
Crash EVE servers by spamming the Fck outta Jita with Concord.


Intentionally crashing a server is a bannable offense.

Quote:
Oh yeah, and for the person who said nullsec lags when you have lots of ships.


Fleet fights lag because people keep joining the fight until it lags. That's the way your alliance leaders plan their fights these days. If you have a complaint to make about fleet fights lagging, talk to your leadership.

CBBOMBERMAN
Posted - 2011.04.03 10:36:00 - [2519]
 

I feel alot of people are gonna loose with this change and the only winner will again be the mosnter alliances/coalitions.
A lot of middle class will have to move into low sec or high sec cos they cant afford system upkeep bills etc..
To make matters worst, it is well known that low sec now days is at huge disadvantage against 0.0, primarely cos of supper caps. If the 0.0 alliances with the highest true sec will be making more money with this new change, the gap between the people in low sec and 0.0 is gonna get bigger. Its really hard to fight a supper cap fleet in low sec but in 0.0 its not that hard. But with this change its only gonna get worst for low sec.
There is no way in hell that people in low sec will be able to afford supper capital replacement.
While the pirates may move into 0.0 in bigger numbers it will not be able to take on the monster alliances.
Few reasons, they will not have the numbers to afford soverenty, they will not have the isk income required for ship replacemnt, they will not be able to lock the system against caps or have very few they can afford. This makes it easy for the blob to come in a clean up with a CTA when ever they choose and there wont be anything the pirates they can do.
The pirates sure can make an offensive but they cant battle suppercaps nor they can in a against a monster alliance with a large Jump Bridge network. On thing is for sure. The middles class will only be pirates and no more industrials in middle class. With less industrials in 0.0 space, the need for minerals will only get bigger. The industiral will have to move into high sec cos low sec is not cost effective mining vs a higher chance of loosing a hulk. The monster alliances will "bunker in" further with their new found wealth. To give the middle class a higher chance of defeating the monster allinces you will have to make it affordable for the middle class or pirates to wage war but as we know, this is not going to be the case with this patch.

Gladiator XM
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.03 11:09:00 - [2520]
 

Average Null sec player 1-2+ accounts
Lets say 1 account is payed for in real cash the others are payed for with isk from said anoms/sanctums
Said player can no longer afford to run these accounts as some doosh bag decided he wanted to reduce anoms/sanctums = less isk
Player decides to drop 1 maybe 2 accounts and start using the isk he does make to pay for the account he was paying for with real cash.
Outcome = Greyscale not only f--ks over the player base he ****s over his boss too.

Sweet.. You idiot


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