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Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.04.02 19:45:00 - [2401]
 

Originally by: HSG Bomber
Edited by: HSG Bomber on 02/04/2011 13:01:49
this nerf will be the end of my income and the end of playing eve for me.

CCP if you need more money, nerf this stupid plex method and make it possible to buy isk for real money.


Very Happy

Abinadi9
NerdHerd
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.04.02 19:52:00 - [2402]
 

Well in my opinion, people who played by the rules for the past 17 months are now being punished. Visit http://www.evethink.com. Go there, vote if you want or do not want this change. It is API verified so only one vote per account. Go there, vote, then change your API if you're worried about security. It is important that we show CCP that not just a select few but MOST PEOPLE are opposed to this nerf.

Spread this link to your corp/friends/leaders. GET PEOPLE VOTING.

Green Cobra
Posted - 2011.04.02 19:52:00 - [2403]
 

So looks like CCP don't listen to there customers one bit.

Problem is as I see it 2 major ones today in null that really need fixing:
  • PLEX system, horrible thing that kill EVE in the long run. It should not be possible to buy subscription time with ISK

  • BOTS, stupid freaking cheater!!! Ban em all and for once do a good job with it CCP


Fix these 2 and almost all in null will be happy subscribers. It is possible to do it without adding nerfs, it will however require manpower from CCP and lots of it. But who said good fixes are easy fixes?

StuRyan
Posted - 2011.04.02 19:54:00 - [2404]
 

Edited by: StuRyan on 02/04/2011 20:16:52
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 02/04/2011 18:55:57
Originally by: StuRyan
No Liang people are still going to be able to field expensive ships and that comes in the form of those lucky enough to have a good truesec rating.


Which as everyone has been so busy telling us is going to be some incredibly small fraction of 0.0 - both in population and in geography.

Quote:
What we will see is even more entrenched alliances and bigger alliances. People wont want to fight over it they will just join the sheep so they can carry on doing what they need to do to play the game.


More entrenched - sure. Bigger? I doubt that very much. Its not going to take very much before the good truesec systems are utterly overpopulated and people stop moving into them. Furthermore, the dev blog explicitly states this is simply the first of many potential nerfhammers small changes coming to 0.0 in the coming months.

Also: AFK Cloaker/BOBS threads are going to be epic.

Quote:
There is too much useless space in null sec to create a well balanced game.


I couldn't disagree with that more. It is IMPORTANT TO THE GAME to have worthless 0.0 space - for wildlands, for badlands, and for buffer zones.

Quote:
I have said it before and i will say it again. the game needs to add space on a periodic basis


I must have been ****ing imagining the thousands and thousands of new systems added since I started playing Eve. Rolling Eyes

-Liang

Ed: OH, and good on you for totally missing the point of my post.


1. I never said they hadnt added spaceand my point is why stop?

2. Re-read my point people arent going to fight for a truesec system. they will join, and when that is over run they will branch out even if they have an hour in a truesec system that will be worth it. Trust me i have been there and ran hubs all day in systems that are close to a truesec system and waited for it to calm down so i could get my piece. What ended up happening was people branched further and futher around the region just so they could make isk. The fact that you are trying to debate that i am wrong shows how far from the game you must be playing. 0.0 pre-dominion was incredible difficult. this change brings back those days.

Just so you know i ran hubs all day today and made 12m. that was 4 hours of ratting for 12 mil! that is during the day at a time when the wife is out and the kids are asleep. if you think im going to spend all my free time grinding rather than trying to enjoy the end game PVP which of course now means you need a group of people to play the game with considering most of the time you are fighting against blobs.

Try getting a bit closer to the life of people who play in null sec find out who is actually playing this game. Not everyone has endless hours to burn.

Stop trying to break what works and fix what does't. Sov mechanics doesn't work everyone knows it but the devs.

Prester Tom
Genco
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:05:00 - [2405]
 

It seems DRF space will be getting the best of the new anomaly set-up.

Because they need more isk.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:17:00 - [2406]
 

Originally by: Levistus Junior
First of all they are removing pie from the game. The total number of good anomalies across the cluster is dropping, so yeah, there will be less ISK entering the game via anomaly ratting

Secondly, if you weren't getting any pie before, the odds of getting some now are even lower, as the pie will be concentrated in the hands of a few pretty powerful alliances.

Thirdly, if you think this change increases conflict, think again. Go look through pre-Dominion EVE history and try to find a single conflict that was fought over ratting space.


First and second, the slices are smaller in the low end and fatter in the high. It'll be balanced... it's just that with more slices it'll be easier for the little guy to get any. As it stands now, they get zero... b/c the big alliances gobble it ALL up. I'd rather have a sliver of pie than none at all. ...and the idea here is maybe the fat alliances won't bother with the sliver of pie because it does nothing to maintain their body's fat content.

Thirdly, so much has changed since the pre-Dominion times that a comparison falls flat. That said, true-sec was a factor in the locations of big alliances. BOB didn't rule Delve because the name was cool. Fail-alliance Xelas (remember them?) moved into fountain in part because of all the carebear corps in it wanted a crack at the back systems which had decently low true-sec. There are a lot of factors in taking space though... and moon goo is a bigger one than true-sec, I'll admit. This is just the start of the null sec changes though. The issue at hand isn't elusively true-sec, it's the principal that space should be different and offer a reason to move around and conquer different areas. It keeps alliances from becoming static, lethargically sucking up ISK in boring and repetitive ways. The alliances today are to the envisioned alliances of tomorrow as miners are to PvP'ers. The idea here is not to just find any space and merely develop it... staying in one area all the time. Rather, it's to provide aggressive and growing alliances a path to galactic domination that requires movement and more conquest. I think a lot of the crying going on in these forums is a reaction to that. Yes the major alliances will have a huge advantage in initially taking the "good" space. However, after this and other changes they will be more localized, and everyone is going to be constantly gunning for them. The idea that an alliance can grow to a certain point, collect a bunch of carebear renters, and just sit there will give way to a tighter alliance with a few specialized renter corps that feed their war machine, leaving the bulk of carebear corps and alliances to the reduced gains of poorer space. It's going to force the great alliances to become leaner and tougher, and at the same time provide the carebears with a foothold so that they can stop being carebears and become strong. ...increasing carebear alliance greed and frustration will motivate them to take more lucrative space. More ships will be lost. The economy will grow. I will have more active logistics and shipping lanes to camp. Some haulers might be carrying pie. I shall enjoy that pie. I think this vision is the path to smaller, more vicious, and bloodier wars. In a way, I think it will expand the game. The alliances are just upset that the lazy days of ruling are coming to an end. As an analog to market efficiency, we can call forthcoming changes a drive toward "political efficiency."

CBBOMBERMAN
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:32:00 - [2407]
 

There are no words to descrive this. People have been saying for ages that CCP does not really understand their game. I always thought it was a joke. The reality is much worst. Rich alliances are only gonna get richer and the middle tear to lower alliances are gonna get screwed with this new change. This is by far the worst ever change/idea. How is this gonna force out the bigger alliances out? I mean they are already monsters, they are only gonna get stronger with this new change. Its the smaller and mid alliances that already have spent fortune in upgrading their systems and even then they still hav to deal with ho expensive its for them sov maintenanc on top. Whats gonna happen is that they willl have to leave for high sec or low sec cos they cant afford anything and they can make more money without hassle and bills in high sec. Who ever thought of this, defently lost it or has no clue about the game or plays another game thats not eve.
CCP claims to hear what people say...Let just hope they listen better than they can hear. Based on how long this thread has become and has not shown any sign of slowing yet, it is clear that CCP has really have A LOT of support on this change!!!
Good luck to all capsulers o/

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:47:00 - [2408]
 

Originally by: Lt Pizi

you need to accept the fact that the game is currently moving away from npc injected isk

so as sooner you accept this and look for alternative ways to generate income , the more fun you will have in the future



Lt Pizi,

I don't know if you still recall me when I was with you guys (miss DR a lot).

Your reply is the same I have seen in the past 15 years, given by those who achieved end game objectives by adapting vs those crying in a corner, unable to react.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:51:00 - [2409]
 

Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN
There are no words to descrive this. People have been saying for ages that CCP does not really understand their game. I always thought it was a joke. The reality is much worst. Rich alliances are only gonna get richer and the middle tear to lower alliances are gonna get screwed with this new change. This is by far the worst ever change/idea. How is this gonna force out the bigger alliances out? I mean they are already monsters, they are only gonna get stronger with this new change. Its the smaller and mid alliances that already have spent fortune in upgrading their systems and even then they still hav to deal with ho expensive its for them sov maintenanc on top. Whats gonna happen is that they willl have to leave for high sec or low sec cos they cant afford anything and they can make more money without hassle and bills in high sec. Who ever thought of this, defently lost it or has no clue about the game or plays another game thats not eve.
CCP claims to hear what people say...Let just hope they listen better than they can hear. Based on how long this thread has become and has not shown any sign of slowing yet, it is clear that CCP has really have A LOT of support on this change!!!
Good luck to all capsulers o/



This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have just stated the base of dissenting arguments as succinctly as anyone, so lets talk about it.
  • The Rich Alliances are only gonna get richer - Not true. Renters aren't going to pay what they are paying now for lesser space. In fact, they may not want to pay anything for it. Renter corps will therefor defect from their non-agression / support pacts because it's just not worth it. This will reduce the size of great alliances, and have a negative impact on the number of available pilots and amount of resources available to them.

  • How is this gonna force out the bigger alliances (redacted)? - It's not. Those corps that no longer can afford to rent will covet the larger alliances space, and if those bigger alliances drop their guard for a second alliances that might otherwise have been renters will pounce on them like a fat kid on a cupcake.

  • Its the smaller and mid alliances that already have spent fortune in upgrading their systems and even then they still hav to deal with ho expensive its for them sov maintenance on top. - While it's true that those smaller alliances will suffer from reduced gains, I think greed will now motivate them to break from their now far less attractive non-aggression pacts and instead take what is "rightfully theirs". It's about reducing comfort zones, increasing paranoia and fear, and instigating conflict.


Yah... CCP is breaking up your band so that more people can rock. Everyone SEEMS to be complaining about how this screws the little guy... but looking around I see the whiners more often than not in large alliances. While your concern for those former renters and future competitors is touching, I question your motivations.

~Fly dangerous...


StuRyan
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:53:00 - [2410]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Lt Pizi

you need to accept the fact that the game is currently moving away from npc injected isk

so as sooner you accept this and look for alternative ways to generate income , the more fun you will have in the future



Lt Pizi,

I don't know if you still recall me when I was with you guys (miss DR a lot).

Your reply is the same I have seen in the past 15 years, given by those who achieved end game objectives by adapting vs those crying in a corner, unable to react.



what you mean by that is bot and have a salvage alt running round like a dog on a lead picking up all your npc kills. then transport it and sell it. an awful lot of effort just to enjoy the end game.

Jason Nesmeth
Posted - 2011.04.02 20:57:00 - [2411]
 

Originally by: Gogela


First and second, the slices are smaller in the low end and fatter in the high. It'll be balanced... it's just that with more slices it'll be easier for the little guy to get any. As it stands now, they get zero... b/c the big alliances gobble it ALL up. I'd rather have a sliver of pie than none at all. ...and the idea here is maybe the fat alliances won't bother with the sliver of pie because it does nothing to maintain their body's fat content.




There aren't more slices LOL...it's still the same number of systems...just now 80% of them can not reach the max level of income generation as they can now.

What allows the little guy to move out into 0.0 is the fact that with work and effort any 0.0 system can be improved to generate the max ratting income. They can stay out of the path of the big boys and get a foothold so that maybe someday they can compete with bigger alliances. What CCP is doing negates that is one fell swoop...

What CCP is doing caters directly to the large alliances consolidating power and pulls the rug out from under the little guy. CCP always whines that not enough ppl are in 0.0...then they actually did something right and gave folks an incentive to move out to 0.0...and now they are taking it away...end of story. Hypocrites. And it all stems from the fact that CCP can't let the players actually be free to choose their own path...always they are trying in both overt and clandestine ways to coerce everyone into PvP. More conflict? Why? Is there a USDA daily recommended allowance of conflict? I assure you as a 0.0 resident I get all the conflict I need.

Disgusting...Mad

Klam
Amarr
FACTS on EVE
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:01:00 - [2412]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Klam

What are you basing this on? Pure conjecture?

This is the problem with the entire change. There's no hard facts to backup these claims by supporters or by CCP.

This is Greyscale's supposed Motto: "One half of game design is having solid, well-reasoned opinions about everything. The other half is figuring out why they’re wrong."

Give us the factual why ... not conjecture. Not "Because I say so since I've got years of hidden experience running 0.0 on a pilot I won't post with."



That's actually a result from applying a fairly simple economic theory: supply and demand:
You have less ISK => You can't buy as many HACs at current prices => the price of HACs goes down => the price of moon goo goes down

-Liang


You are making assumptions quite a few assumptions there your economic theory is also based on real life models, not that of facts gathered from Eve. Eve has shown to not follow economic models of the real world.

You are assuming that those with moon goo won't trickle it into the market at it's current prices. Forcing an artificial lack of supply. Since you are a fan of real world economics... ever take a look at the diamond market?

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:04:00 - [2413]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 02/04/2011 21:06:53
Originally by: StuRyan
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Lt Pizi

you need to accept the fact that the game is currently moving away from npc injected isk

so as sooner you accept this and look for alternative ways to generate income , the more fun you will have in the future



Lt Pizi,

I don't know if you still recall me when I was with you guys (miss DR a lot).

Your reply is the same I have seen in the past 15 years, given by those who achieved end game objectives by adapting vs those crying in a corner, unable to react.



what you mean by that is bot and have a salvage alt running round like a dog on a lead picking up all your npc kills. then transport it and sell it. an awful lot of effort just to enjoy the end game.


Your reply shows your limited understanding of ISK making opportunities.

Just because YOU waste countless hours grinding, and on top of that having the fruits of your hard work robbed away by your landlord in the form of taxes, doesnt mean other people do this.

What you make in 10 hours grinding sanctums (before your landlord takes his share), other people make in one hour plexing.

Fact is, you are not only wasting your own time, but with your easy mode petty cash making concept you are bolstering the wallets of the big players that allow you to exist in their domain. You are hurting your very own cause in the long run, you are hurting the game economy, and you are hurting your enjoyment of the game.


Once this change is a week or two old, you will have adapted (or ragequit), and with the new exploration site changes coming be better off than ever before as your landlord wont steal your hard earned cash anymore so easily.

UJust Lost TheGAME
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:05:00 - [2414]
 

Once more for the Lols.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc

UJust Lost TheGAME
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:07:00 - [2415]
 

Originally by: UJust Lost TheGAME
Once more for the Lols.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5IHVKRzwc


"Did you even consult the CSM?"

"Who the **** is the CSM?"

rofl

Namolun
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:13:00 - [2416]
 

When this changes will really going online i won't playing eve any more!!111
Then you can make more money in Lvl 4 missions then in Hub-anomalies and i will NEVER do missions in highsec. This is like going back to the time i started playing Eve!!

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:22:00 - [2417]
 

Originally by: Klam

You are making assumptions quite a few assumptions there your economic theory is also based on real life models, not that of facts gathered from Eve. Eve has shown to not follow economic models of the real world.

You are assuming that those with moon goo won't trickle it into the market at it's current prices. Forcing an artificial lack of supply. Since you are a fan of real world economics... ever take a look at the diamond market?



A few points:
- Your alliance leader control the production of 80% of the moon goo in Eve and thus will simply be cutting his own throat by withholding his moon goo.
- Moon goo is looking down the barrel of a nerf right now. Stockpiling what is likely to be soon-worthless moon goo would be pretty stupid.
- There isn't the same amount of raw ISK flowing so the overall price point for how much people are willing to spend on his product drops. Assuming some kind of collusion, the price per unit can be raised by withholding moon goo, but the total income (and thus profits) is going to go down.

-Liang

Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:24:00 - [2418]
 

Edited by: Daemonspirit on 02/04/2011 21:25:00
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
CCP prob saw the plex usuage rise and got less $$ cause people farming too much sanctums.

Why should they go to your corp, when you don't even know how plex work?

Laughing

Or this guy:
Originally by: Green Cobra

  • PLEX system, horrible thing that kill EVE in the long run. It should not be possible to buy subscription time with ISK




Rolling Eyes

UJust Lost TheGAME
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:24:00 - [2419]
 

It wouldnt be so bad if we knew what their long term plan was.


But based on what I was hearing from the devs at the fanfest panel, they seem to be making it up as they go along, and its all trial and error.


I now see that they have taken the concept of the "sandbox" and have managed to find practical uses for it in their dev teams.


DogTeeth
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:30:00 - [2420]
 

Petitioned. I'll have my subscription monies back please CCP.

Byeeeeeeeeee

Klam
Amarr
FACTS on EVE
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:32:00 - [2421]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Klam

You are making assumptions quite a few assumptions there your economic theory is also based on real life models, not that of facts gathered from Eve. Eve has shown to not follow economic models of the real world.

You are assuming that those with moon goo won't trickle it into the market at it's current prices. Forcing an artificial lack of supply. Since you are a fan of real world economics... ever take a look at the diamond market?



A few points:
- Your alliance leader control the production of 80% of the moon goo in Eve and thus will simply be cutting his own throat by withholding his moon goo.
- Moon goo is looking down the barrel of a nerf right now. Stockpiling what is likely to be soon-worthless moon goo would be pretty stupid.
- There isn't the same amount of raw ISK flowing so the overall price point for how much people are willing to spend on his product drops. Assuming some kind of collusion, the price per unit can be raised by withholding moon goo, but the total income (and thus profits) is going to go down.

-Liang


More baseless assumptions.

- Controlling the flow of a product is beneficial to the long run of an entity in control of that product. Again see diamond markets. So this isn't a "cutting one's own throat"

- Moon Goo itself is getting the nerf? or the way it's mined supplied to eve is getting the nerf? Care to supply evidence to this?

- Based on your other arguments that people can make enough isk to PvP without sanctums and havens, HACs will still be bought in quantity as people learn to make isk via, exploration, belt ratting mining, PI, mid class moon mining ect. Again this is your own argument that people can make isk just fine without sanctums/haves since they did before dominion. How about you do a price comparison of frequently used HACs before dominion and now? I think that would be a factual argument to help your case. Is it a 20% difference in price? or a 2-3x difference in price?


Tau Prime
Black Barrel
Black Habitat
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:37:00 - [2422]
 

Originally by: Rooli Pelaaja
harden the f*ck up

nobody complained when there wasn't perma sanctums, people were happily belt ratting and still getting isk. but now _some ppl_ cant get their pve nyxes anymore so easily

bu-hu


^^This. Might actually be able to find a target at a belt now. That would be nice. Belt ratting was just fine for most before dominion.

All I can see really changing here is the fact that every tom **** and harry will no longer have a carrier or faction fitted t3 to carebear it up in. There is a ridiculous amount of money floating around post dominion. The only band that is losing havens and sanctums all together is the 0.0 to -0.2. There will still be high end sights everywhere else that will respawn as soon as completed with the appropriate upgrades from what I understand. There just wont be one haven for everyone at all times.

There are still plenty of options for generating isk. WH raiding, mining, manufacturing, belt ratting, PI, supplying markets and market manipulation just to name some. Just because ccp is thinning out the the havens and sanctums does not mean that everyone has to go back to lvl-4ing it in highsec.

Just my 2c. Guess I'm neither for or against this. I just don't see what the big deal is. There are other things to do to make more money with less effort in eve. It was to big of an 'easy mode' isk faucet to begin with and prob will continue to be so.


UJust Lost TheGAME
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:38:00 - [2423]
 

Originally by: DogTeeth
Petitioned. I'll have my subscription monies back please CCP.

Byeeeeeeeeee



I think you guys should wait until the patch comes out and takes effect before you start cancelling accounts and what not.

Because for all you know they might roll back on it, change how it effects each ranking of true sec or some other ****.


Unless ofcourse, you are a true winner Rolling Eyes

Vorlon Kosh
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:42:00 - [2424]
 

Ive got a beter idea why dont CCP just nerf everything that can make a player isk to go PVP.
They might as well as this will in all likleyhood kill more than 60% of players who will have a source of isk income removed from them to carry on.
Increase PVP, lol your just going to kill it dead in its tracks, it seems CCP has a total lack of understanding surrounding the economics of its own creation and how things actually work in 0.0 space.
EvE is about to bleed a lot of players because they cannot exist within it anymore.

CCP Zymurgist you need to look at this again as all it is going to do is to harm Eve not improve it.

Adrasta
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:43:00 - [2425]
 

Edited by: Adrasta on 02/04/2011 21:44:36
Originally by: Prester Tom
It seems DRF space will be getting the best of the new anomaly set-up.

Because they need more isk.


If only you actually knew what you were talking about...

StuRyan
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:45:00 - [2426]
 

Edited by: StuRyan on 02/04/2011 21:49:07
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 02/04/2011 21:06:53
Originally by: StuRyan
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Lt Pizi

you need to accept the fact that the game is currently moving away from npc injected isk

so as sooner you accept this and look for alternative ways to generate income , the more fun you will have in the future



Lt Pizi,

I don't know if you still recall me when I was with you guys (miss DR a lot).

Your reply is the same I have seen in the past 15 years, given by those who achieved end game objectives by adapting vs those crying in a corner, unable to react.



what you mean by that is bot and have a salvage alt running round like a dog on a lead picking up all your npc kills. then transport it and sell it. an awful lot of effort just to enjoy the end game.


Your reply shows your limited understanding of ISK making opportunities.

Just because YOU waste countless hours grinding, and on top of that having the fruits of your hard work robbed away by your landlord in the form of taxes, doesnt mean other people do this.

What you make in 10 hours grinding sanctums (before your landlord takes his share), other people make in one hour plexing.

Fact is, you are not only wasting your own time, but with your easy mode petty cash making concept you are bolstering the wallets of the big players that allow you to exist in their domain. You are hurting your very own cause in the long run, you are hurting the game economy, and you are hurting your enjoyment of the game.


Once this change is a week or two old, you will have adapted (or ragequit), and with the new exploration site changes coming be better off than ever before as your landlord wont steal your hard earned cash anymore so easily.


Please enlighten me at how to have super dooper efficiency playing a game once i have about 2 hours left through the day to play eve.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:51:00 - [2427]
 

Originally by: Klam
Controlling the flow of a product is beneficial to the long run of an entity in control of that product. Again see diamond markets. So this isn't a "cutting one's own throat"


The diamond market works because one company controls the overwhelming majority of the market. Your alliance leader does not control the overwhelming majority of the market. Thus, if he withholds his stock while his competitors are still selling, he cuts his own throat.

Quote:
Moon Goo itself is getting the nerf? or the way it's mined supplied to eve is getting the nerf? Care to supply evidence to this?


I'd say that no player knows and CCP hasn't yet hinted as far as I've seen - and I'm pretty well up on most of the hints they throw. But the one hint that seems to be coming through loud and clear is that CCP is taking an eye to pushing through potentially unpopular changes with regards to the nullsec industrial landscape. And what is more important to that than moon goo?

But as you say - at this point nothing has been confirmed. But just enough has been said that I'd be getting really antsy about holding back my stocks of moon goo in hopes of higher profits in the future.

Quote:
Based on your other arguments that people can make enough isk to PvP without sanctums and havens, HACs will still be bought in quantity as people learn to make isk via, exploration, belt ratting mining, PI, mid class moon mining ect. Again this is your own argument that people can make isk just fine without sanctums/haves since they did before dominion. How about you do a price comparison of frequently used HACs before dominion and now? I think that would be a factual argument to help your case. Is it a 20% difference in price? or a 2-3x difference in price?



Hmmmmm:
- I remember buying an Ishtar for ~55M ISK before Dominion. For much more than that, I'd have to go digging through market logs most likely.
- People will still make enough ISK to PVP, but they probably won't be able to make enough ISK to **** away T2 ships like they're cheap beer.

-Liang

Adrasta
Posted - 2011.04.02 21:51:00 - [2428]
 

Originally by: Daemonspirit
Edited by: Daemonspirit on 02/04/2011 21:25:00
Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
CCP prob saw the plex usuage rise and got less $$ cause people farming too much sanctums.

Why should they go to your corp, when you don't even know how plex work?

Laughing

Or this guy:
Originally by: Green Cobra

  • PLEX system, horrible thing that kill EVE in the long run. It should not be possible to buy subscription time with ISK




Rolling Eyes


Well plex as an idea is pretty terrible tbh. Its basically CCP's way to make sure the monkeys (us) keep injecting cash into their ****ehole game. You need more isk? Why don't you buy a plex or 4? You need to pay for sub - well there's plex!

And in the meantime we'll keep making it harder and harder to actually get any isk and thus make you inject more and more cash. Very good plan if money is what you're after don't you think?

I mean I have so much iskies across my accounts that I really couldn't give a **** about this change but I kinda agree that "lets make all newbie alliances farm cruisers and frigs in anomalies" initiative is a bit warped. (Lets make them buy more PLEX!). So basically people will head back to belts. So we'll go back to "good old days" of farming for weeks to get anywhere. Old players like me won't but I'm sure it'll be a lot of "fun" trying to start up in null...

StuRyan
Posted - 2011.04.02 22:00:00 - [2429]
 

Edited by: StuRyan on 02/04/2011 22:02:34
Originally by: Liang Nuren

Hmmmmm:
- I remember buying an Ishtar for ~55M ISK before Dominion. For much more than that, I'd have to go digging through market logs most likely.
- People will still make enough ISK to PVP, but they probably won't be able to make enough ISK to **** away T2 ships like they're cheap beer.

-Liang


I remember housese being sold for average 120k now the same houses are being sold for 180K - thats evolution and thats inflation. Same thing has happened in eve.

You dont see someone interfering with that but what you do see is more help for those branded as first time buyers. that more like what should happeneing.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.02 22:04:00 - [2430]
 

Originally by: StuRyan

I remember housese being sold for average 120k now the same houses are being sold for 180K - thats evolution and thats inflation. Same thing has happened in eve.

You dont see someone interfering with that but what you do see is more help for those branded as first time buyers. that more like what should happeneing.


"Ok, so when StuRyan buys his first Ishtar..."

GTFO. GB2/WOW.


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