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mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.31 00:27:00 - [1891]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Although he's admittedly grown somewhat bitter lately


Hrm. You should evemail me with some examples - I thought I was getting happier as a whole... Embarassed

-Liang

I used to take your posts somewhat seriously, and it surprises me what an asshat ****head you've been in this thread. Every post you've made is a personal attack on someone. Go away. EVE no longer wants you.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.31 00:41:00 - [1892]
 

This is a thread that just keeps giving.

Oguras
Gallente
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.03.31 00:59:00 - [1893]
 

Originally by: Ascendic
Edited by: Ascendic on 31/03/2011 00:37:08

DEEEEEEEEEEEERPP.




Quality!

Xel Ra
Posted - 2011.03.31 01:00:00 - [1894]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
This is a thread that just keeps giving.


The butthurt over losing Catch that keeps giving.

Galerak
Posted - 2011.03.31 01:15:00 - [1895]
 

Originally by: Omara Otawan
Whats up with all the spergs jumping at Liangs throat in here, he's one of the few posters on these forums that have a really profound understanding of this game as well as years of actually constructive posting history.

Although he's admittedly grown somewhat bitter lately, his opinion holds far more weight than all the random whining in here combined.


All I heard was blah blah blah he's a dirty troll. Mostly. As far as constructive posting goes, I've been waiting for years for him to say something useful. He posts frequently enough I thought it would have happened by now.

End User
Posted - 2011.03.31 01:17:00 - [1896]
 

well I'm done evacuating. at least I have standings with decent high sec agents.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.31 01:32:00 - [1897]
 

Originally by: Xel Ra
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
This is a thread that just keeps giving.


The butthurt over losing Catch that keeps giving.

Bitter? I'm so loaded running sanctums feels like a waste of time.

Bored and wanting to see space burn for the giggles more like it.

Omtaga
Posted - 2011.03.31 01:51:00 - [1898]
 

Is this change crucial to keep the economy in check?

I feel like this is a rewind to how eve was before Dominion, I got along fine and will continue, but it seems like my fellow pilots really like the state of the game in this respect.

Instead of subtracting carrots, can we maybe add a new one in the already more valuable systems?

I assume Greyscale has backing for this change by a LARGE volume of CCP employee's.

If a radical change is not necessary, why threaten your player base, income, and customer satisfaction over something that will return us to less people in 0.0?

Xel Ra
Posted - 2011.03.31 02:10:00 - [1899]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Xel Ra
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
This is a thread that just keeps giving.


The butthurt over losing Catch that keeps giving.

Bitter? I'm so loaded running sanctums feels like a waste of time.

Bored and wanting to see space burn for the giggles more like it.


I know what you mean, I had a great vantage point to watch Catch and Tenerefis burn while you guys bailed out with your tails between your legs.

Fierce Hunter
Posted - 2011.03.31 02:23:00 - [1900]
 

Dear CCP,

I haven't been in 0.0 long but I'm really enjoying it. Building assets, taking part in the NC/DRF conflict, and just having a good time in general. If this change sticks, I will lose 95% of my revenue stream. Losing my ability to make ISK = gonna have a bad time. Most of the other players I know depend on this same source of income to support their 0.0 fun.

Any nerf should be done only when it produces a net benefit for the entire player base. I just can't see how this nerf is for the greater good. I would be interested to know what the CSM has to say.

Oh, and Greyscale, would you be "excited" if you were fired from CCP with only two weeks notice?

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.31 02:31:00 - [1901]
 

Originally by: Fierce Hunter
Dear CCP,

I haven't been in 0.0 long but I'm really enjoying it. Building assets, taking part in the NC/DRF conflict, and just having a good time in general. If this change sticks, I will lose 95% of my revenue stream. Losing my ability to make ISK = gonna have a bad time. Most of the other players I know depend on this same source of income to support their 0.0 fun.

Any nerf should be done only when it produces a net benefit for the entire player base. I just can't see how this nerf is for the greater good. I would be interested to know what the CSM has to say.

Oh, and Greyscale, would you be "excited" if you were fired from CCP with only two weeks notice?


Look at your current 0.0 system. Run your scanner, and look at all the sites. Now back to me. All of the ones that are on your scanner that aren't named "Haven" or "Sanctum" will still be there. Look again; those sites that are still there are now your diamonds. The top end sites are the only ones that won't be there anymore. CCP isn't removing those sites completely with this change.

UniqueOne
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.31 02:49:00 - [1902]
 

A few points:
1. The problem with this change is not that sanctums are being removed, it is that they are being removed from only the ones that need them most.
2. This is nothing like pre dominion - where they spawned randomly - anywhere.

If you are going to remove some, then just remove all anoms from everyone. At least that would be balanced.

johnny sackomoney
Posted - 2011.03.31 02:50:00 - [1903]
 

To the tune of "ole mcdonald had a farm" ready GO

ccp had a game ei ei o .... and then they fracked it all up ei ei o ..with a nerf nerf here a nerf there a nerf everywhere a nerf nerf .. oh my fracking GOD >>>>

seriously ccp stay away from the nerfbat juice its not good for any of us

Tania Russ
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:00:00 - [1904]
 

Look at your current 0.0 system. Run your scanner, and look at all the sites. Now back to me. All of the ones that are on your scanner that aren't named "Haven" or "Sanctum" will still be there. Look again; those sites that are still there are now your diamonds. The top end sites are the only ones that won't be there anymore. CCP isn't removing those sites completely with this change.


Diamonds? You obviously are unable to do math friend. Let me break it down for you.

My corporation has spent billions upgrading our current home system. Not including the hours of toil and raw grinding to get it to military 5. For what? The ability to make 40 mill or so an hour grinding sanctums or havens. The rest of the anomalies are, quite simply, ****e. Have you never run them? They are ****e. Take my word for it. ****e diamonds possibly I suppose?

WHat do we receive in recompense for lost isk and effort as a result of this nerf? A hearty good luck?

Botters of course don't care if Sanctums and Havens are nerfed.

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:01:00 - [1905]
 

Edited by: Rrama Ratamnim on 31/03/2011 03:04:59
Moons are the F*CKING TARGETS, not truesec, wtf is CCP thinking, you basically just made swaths of space UNUSEABLE!

No it won't let new small alliances in ... why????? because the old groups will still hold the areas and crush any people who try to get soverignty its just now less of those systems will be upgraded....


Having the ability to upgrade any system to +% was what made nullsec useable for gods f*cking sake..... your basically handing the power blocks the good systems, and all of the smaller entities will have to return to f*cking hisec to earn any ISK.... really -0.3 to -0.4 for break even, ah so areas like providence go back to being complete ghost towns of uselessness?

WTF are you guys thinking!

THIS IS NOT WHAT NULLSEC WANTED OR NEEDED

DO NOT NERF NULLSEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anomolies = income for CHARACTERS, not ALLIANCES, alliances cud give a crap about anomolies, if you want to push for more conflict, ADD TO THE GAME REASONS TO FIGHT, dont take away one of the only damn good reasons for nullsec....

you want to do the anomolies way, don't completely gimp the low end systems, atleast leave them useable, maybe no sanctums but 3 havens in lowend, 4 and 1 in level 2 3 and 2 in next, 4 and 2 then 3 and 3 and 4 and 3 in the last level....

GIVE US MORE DONT SCREW OVER 80% of nullsec!


Why the hell claim nullsec space if the anomolies are gimped? Who wants areas of nullsec with low trusec if you can't get good officer spawns reliably, you can't get anomolies worth crap, and there freely red roamed which makes mining useless (Especially as AFK cloakies stand)

Kaarrd
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:02:00 - [1906]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Look at your current 0.0 system. Run your scanner, and look at all the sites. Now back to me. All of the ones that are on your scanner that aren't named "Haven" or "Sanctum" will still be there. Look again; those sites that are still there are now your diamonds. The top end sites are the only ones that won't be there anymore. CCP isn't removing those sites completely with this change.


Too bad anomalies below Havens don't net f*ck all for ISK/hr.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:07:00 - [1907]
 

Originally by: Kaarrd
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Look at your current 0.0 system. Run your scanner, and look at all the sites. Now back to me. All of the ones that are on your scanner that aren't named "Haven" or "Sanctum" will still be there. Look again; those sites that are still there are now your diamonds. The top end sites are the only ones that won't be there anymore. CCP isn't removing those sites completely with this change.


Too bad anomalies below Havens don't net f*ck all for ISK/hr.


Deal with it.

Please visit your user settings to enable images.

Lord Helghast
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:07:00 - [1908]
 

Originally by: Kaarrd
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Look at your current 0.0 system. Run your scanner, and look at all the sites. Now back to me. All of the ones that are on your scanner that aren't named "Haven" or "Sanctum" will still be there. Look again; those sites that are still there are now your diamonds. The top end sites are the only ones that won't be there anymore. CCP isn't removing those sites completely with this change.


Too bad anomalies below Havens don't net f*ck all for ISK/hr.


Wow does this guy realize you could clear all those "lower sites" in 2 hours and still make less than a level 4 mission done in 10 minutes! WTF talk about not understanding nullsec....

Theres a reason even the devblog called all these other sites "filler" because there USELESS no one wants them, WTF would i ever upgrade a -.1 - .2 site or hell eve -.2 to -.3 .... as without havens and sanctums, the anomoly upgrades are and i say this with 100% certainty USELESS

Kovid
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:12:00 - [1909]
 

Edited by: Kovid on 31/03/2011 03:20:51


I support the changes.

Life existed before sanctums and no one is forcing people to upgrade their systems for anomalies. Life will still be too easy after the fact. Only the really really careless have and will continue to get caught doing them. It is easier to kill people in high sec. Does that sound right?

If there truly are less people in 0.0 after this then it's obvious they were not cut out for 0.0. They had a special grace period in 0.0 that let them pay taxes to their overlords during that time. If their overlords were lucky maybe they got them to come to a few CTAs in Drakes when they could be bothered to stop running sanctums or wait till a roaming gang leaves their space while in POS shields or station.


Next remove local, please.



Tania Russ
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:23:00 - [1910]
 

Originally by: Kovid
Edited by: Kovid on 31/03/2011 03:20:31
Edited by: Kovid on 31/03/2011 03:17:10

I support the changes.

Life existed before sanctums and no one is forcing people to upgrade their systems for anomalies. Life will still be too easy after the fact. Only the really really careless have and will continue to get caught doing them. It is easier to kill people in high sec. Does that sound right?

If there truly are less people in 0.0 after this then it's obvious they were not cut out for 0.0. They had a special grace period in 0.0 that let them pay taxes to their overlords during that time. If their overlords were lucky maybe they got them to come to a few CTAs in Drakes when they could be bothered to stop running sanctums or wait till a roaming gang leaves their space while in POS shields or station.


Next remove local, please.





Sure, remove local. While we are at it, make it impossible to afk cloak. And make it possible to view all of a player's alts. Then we can clearly see and easily find the pirate corporations' indy alts botting away in highsec, and wardec them, and kill their hulks. Good times.

Kovid
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:29:00 - [1911]
 

Edited by: Kovid on 31/03/2011 03:31:57
Quote:
My corporation has spent billions upgrading our current home system. Not including the hours of toil and raw grinding to get it to military 5. For what? The ability to make 40 mill or so an hour grinding sanctums or havens.

WHat do we receive in recompense for lost isk and effort as a result of this nerf? A hearty good luck?



And your have reaped billions more profit during the time of these upgrades. The isk faucet has been on for a long time. It doesn't take long at all to get military to 5 especially when the people know that the end result is sanctum and haven heaven. So the recompense is you had a leg up on people who didn't have access to those sanctums. Or just about anyone who wanted to go to null sec had them too so you were all on a level playing field. Therefor no recompense is needed.

I would trade no local for no afk cloak any day. Not like people cloaked can activate a gun and threaten a ship or any module for that matter.

Zelman Axe
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:31:00 - [1912]
 

CCP why dont you get rid of 0.0 altogether its one huge napfest in the north and south and with the proposed changes 0.0 space to much like hard work. No more wars no conflicts just happy carebear land

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:32:00 - [1913]
 

only version of this i see ever being accepted is to make -0.1 to -0.2 have 1 haven and 1 sanctum, and go up from there, that way atleast small corps can still grind and grow up and fund themselves in low end systems till there big enough to move on.... and hell let the -1 system have 6 and 6 sanctums.... that way they can support the larger alliances demands...

but do NOT nerf 80% of f*cking nullsec because your trying to guess at ways to trigger wars.... how does that help break up NC like coallitions... they'lll just move there PVE alts to there lowest truesec systems... oh wait they already do that because of increased officer/faction spawns! so they wont change anything, they'll still hold swaths of space and smack down enemys that try to take anyt of it

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:34:00 - [1914]
 

Originally by: Tania Russ

Sure, remove local. While we are at it, make it impossible to afk cloak.


You do realize these two things are mutually exclusive, right?

Nonamanadus
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:34:00 - [1915]
 

CCP Greyscale you SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUMB IDEA, YOU WANT MORE WARS GET RID OF THE DAMN LAGG.

Kaarrd
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:35:00 - [1916]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Kaarrd
Too bad anomalies below Havens don't net f*ck all for ISK/hr.
Deal with it.


The thing is, I don't have to deal with it. I can voice my concern when CCP announces a nerf that will negatively impact my experience in such a significant way.

Tania Russ
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:37:00 - [1917]
 

Originally by: Kovid
Edited by: Kovid on 31/03/2011 03:31:57
Quote:
My corporation has spent billions upgrading our current home system. Not including the hours of toil and raw grinding to get it to military 5. For what? The ability to make 40 mill or so an hour grinding sanctums or havens.

WHat do we receive in recompense for lost isk and effort as a result of this nerf? A hearty good luck?



And your have reaped billions more profit during the time of these upgrades. The isk faucet has been on for a long time. It doesn't take long at all to get military to 5 especially when the people know that the end result is sanctum and haven heaven. So the recompense is you had a leg up on people who didn't have access to those sanctums. Or just about anyone who wanted to go to null sec had them too so you were all on a level playing field. Therefor no recompense is needed.

I would trade no local for no afk cloak any day. Not like people cloaked can activate a gun and threaten a ship or any module for that matter.



While I applaud your certainly well intentioned efforts at elocution, I must point out that your logic is sadly flawed. Good try though son.

If it weren't for the new and wonderful opportunities in null offered by Dominion, we wouldn't have bothered with the hassle, the billions of isk invested, the days of griefers like you sitting afk cloaked and removing any opportunity at isk generation, the ship losses, the asshats, the diplomatic and political shyte, and so on so forth in the first place. So yes, we deserve an explanation and recompense for lost work and isk based on false pretenses.

Kovid
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:37:00 - [1918]
 

Edited by: Kovid on 31/03/2011 03:49:07


Originally by: Tania Russ
And make it possible to view all of a player's alts. Then we can clearly see and easily find the pirate corporations' indy alts botting away in highsec, and wardec them, and kill their hulks. Good times.


But then you would have to post with your main or at least be responsible for your words and actions because clearly you speak of your corporation investing in upgrades. Last I checked Pator Tech School hasn't upgraded any null sec systems.

An afk cloaked ship creates no ship loss. You are griefing afk cloakers by not the amount of time they waste trying to get a kill.

The amount of CONCORD fees going into maintaining the upgrades vs the amount CONCORD paid out directly from people ratting in the anomalies that the upgrades generated equal what is called an isk faucet. If only CCP had some numbers of how much got paid out as a comparison to show to people like they are getting fleeced. When it is really they who fleeced CCP.



Tania Russ
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:48:00 - [1919]
 

Originally by: Kovid
Originally by: Tania Russ
And make it possible to view all of a player's alts. Then we can clearly see and easily find the pirate corporations' indy alts botting away in highsec, and wardec them, and kill their hulks. Good times.


But then you would have to post with your main or at least be responsible for your words and actions because clearly you speak of your corporation investing in upgrades. Last I checked Pator Tech School hasn't upgraded any null sec systems.





We don't cheat. We actually (gasp!) mine. And we manually run these sanctums and havens for isk to support PvP.

On the other hand, 5 years experience with this game has taught me that very likely your PvP alliance DOES cheat. You don't manualy mine. You use VMs and software. Or you run belts with VMs and software. And your massive capfleets and laughed at momship losses bear that up - plenty more isk from the robots tomorrow. Which is what makes folks like you such hypocrites for applauding these changes. I use thw words "you" and "your" generally to describe the big alliances out there who seem to have 23/7 to run around griefing and always have lots of PvP ships magically provided for them to do so. Elitist *******s, cheating to grief. Maybe Rapture doesn't do this. I know most do.

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.31 03:51:00 - [1920]
 

Originally by: Kovid
Life existed before sanctums and no one is forcing people to upgrade their systems for anomalies.


That's true - it's all about "choices having consequences". However people already have upgraded the systems (both the ihub+upgrades and working to improve the military index) based on the choice they were given by the game. They are now being forced to have the results of that choice taken away from them. Not by a hostile action that they chose to not defend against, not by dropping sov by choosing to not have enough ISK allocated to the right wallet, but by the choice of a developer to change the rules after their decision was made.

That's my biggest issue with this (followed closely by not seeing a good causal link backed up with real data between the stated changes and the expected consequences), that EVE prides itself on the "choices have consequences" aspect. Problem is that if you make your choices, invest your ISK, time, and effort into that choice, and then have a dev take away any benefit that you would have reasonably expected, then the game play becomes arbitrary - make a choice and hope the consequences aren't changed by some out-of-game influence at random.


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