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HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.19 05:19:00 - [3301]
 

its designed to increase the grind and also if space is a wall of blues with some areas getting more income than other areas this puts pressure on non aggression pacts and creates drama and reduces the amount of super caps by increaseing the time it takes to acquire them, combined with ccp dev alts in russian, IT,PL and NC stirring up the whips of war and increase in ccp devs alts engaging in corp thefts their target is the NC and to destablise it

Emo drama bombs an war = lost ships = stimulates markets = more drama = more accounts = more $$$ for ccp the invisible dev alts are at it again

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2011.04.19 05:29:00 - [3302]
 

Originally by: Gogela
Now that everything has come to pass, I would be interested in knowing what effect this has had on the alliance types out there in null sec. Is anything changing?

Question


My corp lost about 10% of it's members. The number it'self is not THAT bad ofc, for a corp of that size 10% is kinda normal kneejerk reaction. What really hurts, however, is that most of these were the long time very dedicated players. Several directors and their alts. People who make stuff happen. Those people who build stations and infrastructure out there in null sec and work hard for building their empire. They were disgusted by the changes. Not exactly bcos it's harder to make isk. They know enough ways to make isk, they are close enough to the top of the pile to see some moongoo, have the skills and ships for level 4, wormholes, whatever. What seems to have been disgusting however was turning the spot of null sec they have spent past year of their life building up into a wasteland overnight in combination with really really crappy way of communicating it. I mean really ? 2 weeks headsup on "oh btw we will be nerfing your whole region" without even "sorry about your stations you made there". Just ... whimsical kick at the antnest to see how the ants run around.

I myself lost my faith in CCP competence with this change as well. I am no longer capable of believing that they know what they are doing if they really believe that these changes bring about the "more pvp" what they claim as a reason for it. I guess I was just hiding my head under the sand for a while, refusing to go with "whines" in the forums. Moongoo, supercaps, etc ...

Overall I do not expect CCP to care. Only 11 % of people live in null sec at any given time, if 10% of them quit over it it's only a 1% of their subscription base. They will be releasing avatar asses in latex in this summer and do a lot of advertising so 1% is not big enough change probably to ring alarm bells.

So what now ? Well I have downgraded my expectation of EVE being awesome in the future as well and no longer are like "15 years down the road, pffft, EVE is the game for your entire life, m8". The underlying idea of the game is awesome. CCP has put a lot of work and love into this game. However, empire building takes some ... stability. The change was a bad one as it has cost CCP dearly in the most dedicated section of players, the "serious business spaceships game" type of people. They will be back down the road one day to see if CCP has got their **** togehter before moving on permanently I would say. Let's hope CCP has got it's **** together by that time.

Vasentic
The Remnant Legion.
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.04.19 06:47:00 - [3303]
 

Originally by: HeliosGal
its designed to increase the grind and also if space is a wall of blues with some areas getting more income than other areas this puts pressure on non aggression pacts and creates drama and reduces the amount of super caps by increaseing the time it takes to acquire them, combined with ccp dev alts in russian, IT,PL and NC stirring up the whips of war and increase in ccp devs alts engaging in corp thefts their target is the NC and to destablise it

Emo drama bombs an war = lost ships = stimulates markets = more drama = more accounts = more $$$ for ccp the invisible dev alts are at it again


Ohai...

Let me introduce you to the way 0.0 works seeing as you obviously have no idea and/or most likely have lived in empire your whole life.

It will not have any affect on NAPs because alliances will never fight each other so their pilots can have a handful of systems with sanctums to carebear in.

You really think all these supercaps come from sanctums? Are you that daft?

And please explain to me in what reality are markets stimulated by REMOVAL of income?

Congrats bro, I think you just won the most dense eve player award. Be sure to share it with CCP as they deserve it as much as you do.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.04.19 08:58:00 - [3304]
 

Originally by: Vasentic

It will not have any affect on NAPs because alliances will never fight each other so their pilots can have a handful of systems with sanctums to carebear in.

so, then the nerf is not nearly that hard as some attempt us to believe it is?? Stop whining then.

S1r Minealot
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.04.19 09:00:00 - [3305]
 

moar tears pls !

Ecoskii
Posted - 2011.04.20 07:45:00 - [3306]
 

Edited by: Ecoskii on 20/04/2011 07:46:08
So the nerf has been out for a few days now.

grats on a completely dumbass change. So far i've closed one account and more than halved my play-time. Thanks for giving me back my summer! Now I log in one account, check for cta announcements, check our 1 Haven anomaly to see if it's available, then log out - there is almost nothing else to do that is worth logging in for
  • Roams are a waste as systems are deserted as renters fall away

  • doing 1 Haven repeatedly - do you not think we have brains ??? how much tedium should I be bothered with??)


Go on - prove me wrong - leave it another week then post a graph of people active across 0.0 over the past 6 weeks and the number of fuelled POS's then see how 'excited' you are about this piece of %%%

Cloba
Posted - 2011.04.20 08:28:00 - [3307]
 

I just wonder if we can get some real feedback how worse the sanctum nerfs hit the small entities.
As for our small alliance we are done with nullsec for 3 reasons
1) with 3 belts in a -0.1 system we canīt afford the rent
2) saying this we canīt even afford the sov bills
3) mining doesnīt work for us as our alliance is not big enough to keep industry up. The common member has no way to make ISK in nullsec anymore.

As a result of this corps either left to highsec or joined large entities.
We were bleeding at this time 45% of our members we had prior to this infamous patch.

Our landlords will not adjust the rents, we already talked to them. They prefer to keep the rents high even if they will have some more white spots on their map. The remaining guys who would love to stay in nullsec and not teaming up with large entities are helpless and players stopped logging in. Iīm afraid this patch will completly destroy our young alliance. Sorry for posting with an alt but I donīt want to increase the mess we are experiencing right now.

Is this happening on a larger scale?
Could anyone give me honest answers about how the situation really is out there?
Has anyone any experience about how to solve this mess without going back to highsec or teaming up with a large entity?

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.04.20 08:57:00 - [3308]
 

what you describe, is a totally expected result for me.
Pets die out, shrinking blobs, less ISK ingame.

If you want to reduce ISK inflation, there are always sacrifices. In this case its those "small alliances" at powerblock borders.

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.04.20 09:16:00 - [3309]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/04/2011 09:35:42
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/04/2011 09:17:19
Originally by: Cloba
I just wonder if we can get some real feedback how worse the sanctum nerfs hit the small entities.
As for our small alliance we are done with nullsec for 3 reasons
1) with 3 belts in a -0.1 system we canīt afford the rent
2) saying this we canīt even afford the sov bills
3) mining doesnīt work for us as our alliance is not big enough to keep industry up. The common member has no way to make ISK in nullsec anymore.

As a result of this corps either left to highsec or joined large entities.
We were bleeding at this time 45% of our members we had prior to this infamous patch.

Our landlords will not adjust the rents, we already talked to them. They prefer to keep the rents high even if they will have some more white spots on their map. The remaining guys who would love to stay in nullsec and not teaming up with large entities are helpless and players stopped logging in. Iīm afraid this patch will completly destroy our young alliance. Sorry for posting with an alt but I donīt want to increase the mess we are experiencing right now.

Is this happening on a larger scale?
Could anyone give me honest answers about how the situation really is out there?
Has anyone any experience about how to solve this mess without going back to highsec or teaming up with a large entity?


I am part of a small alliance too. During this patch we have lost a few members. Yes there is a lot less people showing up now for ops. Also it has created some other drama. Seems as if people lost their enthusiasm in some ways. Its evident in the tax as we see less action. We so far are scrapping by. Rent has not been lowered either.
People are selling their capitals. This is bad considering when we got a large number of people in capitals. I guess i am saying this, cos once you get into capitals, you are suppose to maintain that route, not go back and sell you capitals.
Mining has become a problem also as less people are logging in. So far the biggest mining op i have seen latelly is 6 hulks, very bad turn out.
I guess people used to do their mining op and do some sanctums for that instant isk, that way they can afford to wait for their minerals to sell, now they have to drag their minerals all the way to high sec and is not cost effective.
They are defenetly disolusioned by the whole thing. The participation in pvp has gone drastically down too.
Another thing i forgot to mention, in many ways has had to do with CCP managment/misinformation of the changes.
As you are aware, CCP changes in URL below specify that -0.5 systems will get -1 sanctum. This is a problem since we used to get 2 sanctums before and if we go by the documentation, we should get 1(2-1) now. Instead we got none. I have raised this with CCP who in turn responded that the documentaion in the URL below is wrong. One thing is to make a change, anothr thing is to make the change and provide false info with a more drastic change. This enfuriated our members further.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=883

The future does not look bright gent and ladies :(

Andrea Roche
Posted - 2011.04.20 10:04:00 - [3310]
 

Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/04/2011 10:17:42
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/04/2011 10:16:35
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/04/2011 10:15:45
Edited by: Andrea Roche on 20/04/2011 10:05:50
Originally by: Robert Caldera
what you describe, is a totally expected result for me.
Pets die out, shrinking blobs, less ISK ingame.

If you want to reduce ISK inflation, there are always sacrifices. In this case its those "small alliances" at powerblock borders.


While i partially agree with you, there is one thing thought. Large alliances deal with Trillion of ISK if not more. Small alliances deal with less than 10 billion of isk in wallet. In a market, you cant resolve a serious issue in the market by making the richer richer and the poorer poorer cos basically you are going backwards, more like a feudal type of system specially when the gap is in the trillions of isk.
Put a trillion and a billion sid by side and look at the zeros.
1 000 000 000 000 . 00
0 001 000 000 000 . 00
You cant wage war on these terms.

Cloba
Posted - 2011.04.20 10:39:00 - [3311]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
what you describe, is a totally expected result for me.
Pets die out, shrinking blobs, less ISK ingame.

If you want to reduce ISK inflation, there are always sacrifices. In this case its those "small alliances" at powerblock borders.


Well that is exactly what I want to find out.
Are other small alliances smarter then we are?
Do they know a way of keeping the wheel spinning we donīt?

The result I see in our alliance is horrible.
Half of the guys left for large alliances and the rest doesnīt log in anymore.
For days our system is completly empty.
We donīt know how to go on anymore tbh.
So what I wanted to find out if itīs only our problem or is it a problem for the majority of small bearing alliances.

Copy Bird
Posted - 2011.04.20 11:31:00 - [3312]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
what you describe, is a totally expected result for me.
Pets die out, shrinking blobs, less ISK ingame.

If you want to reduce ISK inflation, there are always sacrifices. In this case its those "small alliances" at powerblock borders.


tbh our alliance has got smaller, but most if not all have just gone to a bigger alliance. so the blob isnt getting smaller at all.

the amount of isk produced by anoms compared to that produced by moons is tiny. this anom nerf wont change inflation at all, nerf moons and it may will have an impact.

this chnage only hurts the small guy/corp/alliance it dosnt help it one bit. so that among most other things in the blog are therfore lies.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.04.20 11:36:00 - [3313]
 

leaving to a bigger alliance wont help you at all, since there is a limited number of very good systems worth farming and the alliances get bloated quickly, leaving you no sanctums again because of 300 people squeezed in one -0.8 system.

Cloba
Posted - 2011.04.20 12:29:00 - [3314]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
leaving to a bigger alliance wont help you at all, since there is a limited number of very good systems worth farming and the alliances get bloated quickly, leaving you no sanctums again because of 300 people squeezed in one -0.8 system.


I disagree.
Large alliances have system miners can and do use frequently and they got the number of miners to keep industry up.
Large alliances will need stuff so traders will favour to go there.

In and around our systems there are no miners, no ratters (worthless systems) and no trading anymore.
It is all empty around.

So it is not all about ratting.

Copy Bird
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:24:00 - [3315]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
leaving to a bigger alliance wont help you at all, since there is a limited number of very good systems worth farming and the alliances get bloated quickly, leaving you no sanctums again because of 300 people squeezed in one -0.8 system.


of course going to teh big alliance will help, they have all the moon goo, full replacment programs taht the small boys cant have because of the moon goo.

if a full bs loss only costs to replace 50mil in a larger alliance, that takes no time to recover from.
if it costs 150mil to replace in a smaller alliance that has sucky space, thats gonna take ages to replace.
where would i currenty be better off. oh thats right the bigger alliance with all teh isk, not the one i spent over a year help to build.




Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:39:00 - [3316]
 

yes, for all those who are for pvp there, its a good decision. For the rest, who just wants carebearing, its no way.

Darth Gustav
Silentium Mortalitas
Mortal Destruction
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:44:00 - [3317]
 

Originally by: Copy Bird
Originally by: Robert Caldera
what you describe, is a totally expected result for me.
Pets die out, shrinking blobs, less ISK ingame.

If you want to reduce ISK inflation, there are always sacrifices. In this case its those "small alliances" at powerblock borders.


tbh our alliance has got smaller, but most if not all have just gone to a bigger alliance. so the blob isnt getting smaller at all.

the amount of isk produced by anoms compared to that produced by moons is tiny. this anom nerf wont change inflation at all, nerf moons and it may will have an impact.

this chnage only hurts the small guy/corp/alliance it dosnt help it one bit. so that among most other things in the blog are therfore lies.


Not to mention that anybody who thinks this will help inflation is a ****wit. Sure, they removed a small ISK fountain, but they easily removed more players from the market through sub losses and inactivity than the small divot in the isk influx could possibly accomodate. It's possible this change could actually worsen the effect of inflation, as the total ISK in the market remains similar while the active trades drops (again, due to the double-whammy of sub losses and interest waning).

Copy Bird
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:46:00 - [3318]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
yes, for all those who are for pvp there, its a good decision. For the rest, who just wants carebearing, its no way.


so you argued you want smaller blobs, but when people join the bigger alliances and produce bigger blobs thats ok with you?

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.04.20 15:15:00 - [3319]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 20/04/2011 15:17:17
Originally by: Copy Bird
Originally by: Robert Caldera
yes, for all those who are for pvp there, its a good decision. For the rest, who just wants carebearing, its no way.


so you argued you want smaller blobs, but when people join the bigger alliances and produce bigger blobs thats ok with you?

there were still lots(!!) of ratter pets, joining CTA fleets occassionally. They arent a part of the blob anymore as they move back to empire. Really, not that hard to grasp, is it?
Those, who just joined up their lords wont login more frequently as they did before in their pet alliances, so no difference for the blob size. However, those, who leave their worthless space toward empire, are!

Copy Bird
Posted - 2011.04.20 15:24:00 - [3320]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 20/04/2011 15:17:17
Originally by: Copy Bird
Originally by: Robert Caldera
yes, for all those who are for pvp there, its a good decision. For the rest, who just wants carebearing, its no way.


so you argued you want smaller blobs, but when people join the bigger alliances and produce bigger blobs thats ok with you?

there were still lots(!!) of ratter pets, joining CTA fleets occassionally. They arent a part of the blob anymore as they move back to empire. Really, not that hard to grasp, is it?
Those, who just joined up their lords wont login more frequently as they did before in their pet alliances, so no difference for the blob size. However, those, who leave their worthless space toward empire, are!


these renter/pets as you call it are just joining bigger alliances, with the bear alts too, ok a small amount of mission alts are going back to empire. but most are going to increase the blob size.
you really seam clueless on whats going on in 0.0. are you a ccp alt cos you seam to know as much as they do?

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.04.20 15:32:00 - [3321]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
yes, for all those who are for pvp there, its a good decision. For the rest, who just wants carebearing, its no way.


It's not even good for PVPers, who ya gonna shoot at?

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.04.20 15:33:00 - [3322]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 20/04/2011 15:35:15

you assume there is only a small amount of people in said pet alliances who were there just for ratting??
Discussion is over, believe what you want.
If nothing relevant changes for people as they may simply join up their lords, I really dunno why there is that much whine about the nerf. Just business as usual as you say, so then stop whining.

Copy Bird
Posted - 2011.04.20 15:47:00 - [3323]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 20/04/2011 15:35:15

you assume there is only a small amount of people in said pet alliances who were there just for ratting??
Discussion is over, believe what you want.
If nothing relevant changes for people as they may simply join up their lords, I really dunno why there is that much whine about the nerf. Just business as usual as you say, so then stop whining.


its not a whine when you see something bad happening and state the reasons that its bad.

this is bad for all small corps and alliances in the game. its short sighted and ignorant to make this change and state the reasons ccp has for it.
rich get richer poor get poorer. or the big get bigger and the small fail and fade away.

Cloba
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:01:00 - [3324]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 20/04/2011 15:35:15

you assume there is only a small amount of people in said pet alliances who were there just for ratting??
Discussion is over, believe what you want.
If nothing relevant changes for people as they may simply join up their lords, I really dunno why there is that much whine about the nerf. Just business as usual as you say, so then stop whining.


Well I did raise a couple of very serious questions.
And all I got from you was a half decent troll.
Why is that?

I told you from first hand experience how this nerf has almost destroyed our small alliance and it is a matter of a very short period of time until this alliance will come to an end.
If you are happy about our sudden death so be it.
If you think we did not deserve to exist in first place so be it.
If you really think that this nerf was needed to counter inflation so be it.

But if you donīt mind:
Iīm not happy about our alliance death because CCP made it impossible for us to survive.
Iīm sure we got a right to exist just because we are a part of the eve universe.
Iīm also sure that infaltion got nothing to do with it and it was only made up by some guys who are as clueless as anyone else why this tremendous nullsec destruction had to happen.
It is not about whining. We are just trying to survive in any way we can. Unfortunately it seems that nobody has a clue how to handle this mess as a small carebear alliance that put all their assets into their nullsec home and are now left alone with worthless systems and extraordinary dropping numbers.

And all I hear from ppl like you is:
You deserved to get treated this way.
Why?
When I came to eve it was ment to be a sandbox where peopleīs decision would define the outcome.
Is our way of playing really that disgusting for you that you can openly say "you guys donīt deserve to be in eve"?
Why is there all this bitterness about carebears? Are we not players? Are we useless because it is not our joy to pump up our egos pointing towards killboards and personal stats?
If you are speaking the mind of the majority, then eve became a game that I personally donīt want to play anymore as I donīt like to be treated as a second class person just because I prefer to play the game my way.

I really would like to hear other small alliance members experience so we can figure out a way to survive and CCP got the opportunity to learn from seeing us suffering. And again it is not whining just a struggle to survive.

zxsteel
Gallente
Darkness Of Absolution
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:04:00 - [3325]
 

Edited by: zxsteel on 20/04/2011 16:06:21
Checking in to see any thing new to come as of yet?


NOTE: I don't understand why ccp wants to make it hard for groups of people wanting to make income, they are making it easier for bots! I tho ccp was all about groups of people in 0.0!

Darth Gustav
Silentium Mortalitas
Mortal Destruction
Posted - 2011.04.20 17:52:00 - [3326]
 

CCP Greyscale, consider this as an alternative to these abysmally terrible anomaly changes.

People who have left might actually re-sub, and you'll be using a model that stands a chance in hell of actually working.

Or, that's my two ISK.

7Up Man
Posted - 2011.04.20 18:36:00 - [3327]
 

Edited by: 7Up Man on 20/04/2011 18:38:08
Edited by: 7Up Man on 20/04/2011 18:36:45
If CCP wants war why not reshuffle moons? Cause their friends or what? Wants to stop Inflation? As others said before rich get richer, big get bigger. That was the most stupid and illogical thing what I have ever seen in all my life.

Raven Zulu
Posted - 2011.04.20 20:39:00 - [3328]
 

The chess pieces have already started moving - in the opposite direction of CCP's stated intent. VAST areas of 'worthless' 0.0 are being given up. The larger alliances are retreating to their high value systems - making them citadels in the void. Are they to become hermits in their retreats? How difficult is it to take sov from an alliance when 5% of its members lived there? How much more difficult will it be when 33% of members live there? Is one system worth an invasion with costs so high? Sure, before the 'patch' you could siege a constellation and make isk from every system in it.

Lowsec just got bigger.

The GreenT
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:15:00 - [3329]
 

Originally by: Raven Zulu
The chess pieces have already started moving - in the opposite direction of CCP's stated intent. VAST areas of 'worthless' 0.0 are being given up. The larger alliances are retreating to their high value systems - making them citadels in the void. Are they to become hermits in their retreats? How difficult is it to take sov from an alliance when 5% of its members lived there? How much more difficult will it be when 33% of members live there? Is one system worth an invasion with costs so high? Sure, before the 'patch' you could siege a constellation and make isk from every system in it.

Lowsec just got bigger.


been following this post with an occasional trolling comment, in general i like to see the tears. its like sitting outisde jita to watch the orphans wtf pwn so many of the 0.0 bears.

Anyhoo...First, people are not moving in droves to low sec, but I wish they did. Low sec is a hell of a lot harder to control with having to lose sec to maintain control, plus, more targets \o/

Second, while it is speculation, I believe that even though the short term is predicting much of what players said, I think this is short term.

What drives people to run these sites is iskies, but that is not the only reason and I don't believe it's what people REALLY do them for. People run sites for activity. While PVE isn't the most fun part of the game for many of us, it sure beats the hell out of ship spinning. People want to run these sites because they are something to do, with a group, that is rewarding. What has been taken away (apart from isk) is the ability to have a certain playstyle in every system.

What is going to drive conflict is not fights over isk (moongoo will always be the major isk focus) but over internal strife. Its no fun when you have no rats to clean out, no sites to run, nothing to do. When your bored out of your mind, or circle jerking while the CTA is firing up, people do dumb things. Bored players doing stupid sh*t is whats going to drive conflict. And after you see these prime systems start bulking up just wait and I am sure you'll hear about plenty of internal drama.

My prediction, get ready for lots of espionage, a lot of backstabbing and a lot of drama (conflict always follows).

zxsteel
Gallente
Darkness Of Absolution
Posted - 2011.04.21 23:49:00 - [3330]
 

Any idea how much this will grow, change back old ways we liked to do more in 0.0 as groups, and you removed only options to do so.


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