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Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2011.03.28 05:24:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Cailais
Dear OP,

I could edit your post to match pretty much every MMO on the market - but frankly I can't be bothered. Enjoy whatever ever else you want to do - bye.

C.




I'm debated about your reply, since it's logically right, but practically horribly wrong: it's only in eve that population only grew by a ridiculous 1000 stable players, in the last two years (you see this just by the in-game player count when you log in at the different hours of the day); it just -SAW- 10000 people more... that left before the sixth month of play (and ONLY thanks to those million banners around... not because of awesome word of mouth, absolutely).

Let's just say I'm sure I should appreciate the general attempts at addressing my ... posting stance and attitude, but the fact that you fanboiis negate the obvious, in-your-face thruth about your failures as players, and about eve's failures as a GAME, doesn't make me a "troll", or any other persona that dimwits label any who wins an argument against them, because of a lack of related counterarguments.

Let's just think of this as if it were the discussion of club, those entertainment buildings where you pay to enter.
After a few years of attendance you automatically earn the right to AT LEAST speak your mind with the knowledge that you are telling from experience.

Well dude, I've been into a -LOT- of clubs (games, for those ******ed that didn't get the analogy). Countless of them.
AND I LOVE EVE
Yet eve the game is ultimately disappointing, and fails to deliver even the most basic concepts of modern gameplay.
- pve equipment different from pvp equipment; annoying, time wasting configuration set up from one to the other.
- entry level ships and ship equipment invalidating highest tier ships and ship equipment at the same level of efficiency (1 frigate module = 1 battleship module)
- static ship fitting with only 7 types of equipment. titans (ship size '10000') having 8 gun modules, like battlecruisers (size '100'), having 8 gun modules, like destroyers (size '1').
- miserable "looking for group" technology. No fleet templates, no fleet invite auto-accept. not the least incentive to fleet with unknown people for occasional missioning... or mining. No bonuses from grouping and no incentive to socialize.
- fallimentary economy. overinflation and speculation without any arbiting lead to hangar hoarding. highest tier equipment only available in controlled space, making it realistically unavailable to all of the playerbase, and subject to out of control speculation.

Eve just struggles (read MISERABLY FAILS) to CREATE VETERANS, since people LEAVE way sooner than they would otherwise,
because of the FLAWS,
because of CSRs incompetence,
because of hardcore loser fanboiis driven by inertia, that are OBVIOUSLY AWARE of the ridiculously blatant DESIGN PREHISTORIC IDIOCIES, and that still don't light up their torches and pick up their forks to have THEM FIXED RIGHT NOW,
and because hardcore players (only in EVE those who pass more time on the forums than in-game)
DO NOT WANT TO SEE that their beloved game is BROKEN, even if they know it and they experience it everyday.

TL;DR
Sadly but not surprisingly there is not a single valid counter argument to what I wrote.
And furthermore,
I wonder if you fools think that I wrote the original post for the people
that agrees with me?
SERIOUSLY?

DUDE.
I WROTE IT FOR YOU.
THE PEOPLE THAT AGREES WITH ME
IS
NOT
PLAYING
EVE,
OR THEY WILL JUST NOT SUBSCRIBE AFTER THE TRIAL.

Oh and the banners will lose their surprise factor pretty soon enough, so let's see how you keep those new players in the game, then.
Just count how many real life friends you did successfully invite to EVE to the point that they remained...

Fulmar Muse
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.28 05:28:00 - [32]
 

Those who play eve, pay for subscription, I think it's important to cover this while we're here

Titas Agor
TITANS OF PEACE
Posted - 2011.03.28 06:07:00 - [33]
 

I can understand your fraustraitions but you have to bare in mind that eve-online, as a whole, is constantly evolving, changing, if you played this game from the start, then you should relise just how much the game has changed, one of the things that anoys me graphicly are missiles, but again CCP is so focused on the PVP side of things that only turrets are getting a complete overhall on animations and graphics, even tho they actually have some already compared to missiles.

The graphics are completely not the same since 2003, dont know how you can say that, and eve-online was the first ever MMO to completely re-do their entire engine on the fly with trinity when they did that, WOW attempted this feature and failed miserably, and its innovations like this (constantly wanting to improve eve all the time) why ppl love this game so much.

Not quite sure what your talking about with the community only being a forum? some of my best friends i've met through eve actually, the community does go beyond online with EVE-Online MEATS in bar crawls ect.. and with events like Fanfest which really does put a new meaning to eve really.

Im currently unhappy about the PVE content, it actually was better about 3 yrs ago then it currently is today, but i am a PVE player, i only pvp when i have to or have no other choice. The new changes to how missions are is going to p!ss me off because yet again, the nerf to missions once again, they just did a mission nerf few months ago and their doing another? As someone posted in a different thread, it seems CCP is so focused on the Economy Guy and whatever he says is golden, they dont actually think about how the change will affect the general PVE player that much, just look some frakking random number in some over bloody complicated spread sheet and think ahh, too much isk in that, time for another isk sinker!!!

I dont think it'll affect the missions THAT much, but its the practicality of it, its not the point, its an isk sink, plain and simple. CCP should be doing something along the lines of hunting down RMT websites, and going after copywrite protection frauds of ISK and selling for real money as that is a blatant infringement of copy write. THATS where the isk sink should go.

Moving lvl 5s back to low sec i was mad but it did need to be done, i can accept that, their original purpose several years ago was for low sec only, was never meant to be high sec at all, but it absolutely killed my gameplay, i never did them for the ISK or LPs, was something i could do as a fleet with my corp, that was fun, challenging and rewarding no matter how many ppl you had with you. Level 4s have more then one additional person with ya and the isk goes down BAD!!! to the point of not even worth doing anymore, even with the nerf to loot and salvaging, not even worth doing that in a mission anyway now.

The gameplay mechanics for PVP with frigs able to scramble BS, thats a game mechanic that every single player in eve is used to, accepted, and dont really care about, it helps new players get to do pvp if they want.

Titas Agor
TITANS OF PEACE
Posted - 2011.03.28 06:10:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Titas Agor on 28/03/2011 06:17:41
continued*

I do however like your idea's about how the whole scrambling BS vs Frigs works and maybe put it in the idea's thread rather then in here...


I could go on and on about my feelings about PVP and PVE, but no one really cares haha and actually you'll be supprised just how many ppl love eve the way it is...and CCP cant change the game mechanics on just a tiny handfull of players on the forums, even tho i think more n more people agree with me but would never post on a forum.

With Captains Quaters comming out this year (have yet to be believed for me) with all the BS that went on with the test server fiasco, it will add a lot to the game, but seems like the more they add into the game, the more gameplay they kill, like with all the 0.0 isk system with the soverity upgrades, i'm not a PVP'r, but if i could keep the system the way it is, and leave incarna out completely, i'd rather vote for leaving incarna out, I'd love to have walking in stations, but at what cost? if its going to start killing off a lot of other stuff, then its simply just not worth it to me. The game can be hard enough to make isk as it is, never lone nerf the frakk out of everything all the time, THAT gets tiresome and rediculas.

To the OP, if you are wanting a MMO that is a lot more heavily based on actualy pilot skill, then you'll want to check out the free to play MMO called BLACK PROPHECY and the yet-to-be released Jumpgate Evolution. I dont think eve-online is for you to be honest going from your posts.

No matter what you think, or what you say, you cant really change stuff in eve, you either have to adapt, or quit, which i've done a couple times myself, and then eve pulls me back in untill CCP does something re-tarded and makes me leave again, and the changes to 0.0 and missions, and the new mentions of "MORE ISK SINKS" mentioned at this years fanfest is making me rethink myself at the moment.

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.03.28 06:19:00 - [35]
 

If I read between the many lines, I'm guessing the OP lost something shiny to warp scrambling rats, didn't get reimbursed for it, and is now writing a manifesto on (angry) game design.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.03.28 07:25:00 - [36]
 

I can recognize some of the OP's issues, I don't agree with all though.

2003 graphics - since when are graphics any measure for a games's quality?

Deambulation - Agreed. No characters let alone corp offices to gather and have a nice social event. Even the chat channels are a bit old fashioned, mixed channels with an option to actvate/deactivate would already be better.

PvE content - also have to agree here. No team missions, it's all linear single player stuff. L4s are a semi-afk walk in the park while going to lowsec for L5s is a silly idea as risk/reward is ridiculous. Courer mission are extremely boring. There's not alot of challenge in it, just the annoyance of an occcasional lowsec ot faction mission that you have to decline. No random content. Bosses ("the most sought after villain") hardly give extra reward compared to the average minion, all ships look the same.

PvP - also have to agree. Numbers > all and no arenas to have a challenge. Wardec station or stargate camping for hours is extremely boring. Laggy blob vs blob isn't exactly the ultimate PvP experience either. Killboard statistics stopping people from engaging any remotely even fights is everything but encouraging.

Insurance - strongly disagree. They should abolish the silly insurance thing alltogether. Or make it act like a realistic insurance company - every time you lose a ship, your insurance fee gets higher to the point that insuring has no use anymore.

Battleship vs frigate - kind of agree. Give battleships some extra small high slots for some small turret anti-frig defense, like real battleships.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.28 07:41:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/03/2011 07:41:32
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

Eve today (almost actually identical to 2003):
- 2003 graphics, albeit with shadow maps and hi res textures; no particles; no damage textures; (pathetic) All your weapons hit the enemy ship same spot, without impact effects; Destroyed ships don't release debris. What remains in space after a fierce battle is... a joke called wreck. Identical polygon meshes regardless of ship.



If you judge EvE for its graphics then you are probably (considering) playing the wrong game.


Originally by: Luminus Mallus

- PVP: there's absolutely NO player skill involved (only 7 different types of activable modules, anyone? weapons, painters, webbers, jammers, vampires/ neuters, scramblers, dampeners, and that's it). Combine the modules, that's all the combat skill you "need".



Yes, you are definitely not for EvE.

Oddymandius
Minmatar
Red Federation
Posted - 2011.03.28 08:11:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus

If there were ever a fair fight, winning'd be as "easy as", having more money and having an older character
lrn2play

Ordais
Posted - 2011.03.28 10:17:00 - [39]
 

There is so mainy fail in this troll-post i don't know where to start.

Damn, you want to complain? Then AT LEAST take some time to do research to complain about the right reasons, for gods sake.

(alone the alegation that frig vs. BS = iwin and then complaining about Veterans pawning noobs is so failtroll)

JitaSchnitte
Posted - 2011.03.28 16:20:00 - [40]
 

+1

OP is right with most things. Some things in EVE are horrible broken and badly designed right from the start. PVP sucks mostly because of blobs / no areas where u can have "real" fights, PVE is boring(Shooting red dots that have 5% power of a real player, no special or groupmobs, no communication from mobs at all... its like a duckhunt with dead rotten donuts instead of ducks), different fits for PVE/PVP is PURE CRAP!, nothing to explore in that "small" universe(no comets, no special suns, no blackholes, no supernovas... just nothing... empty space with dots and markers and every system looks same, no feeling of travel or traveltime to be more exact(you just jumpclone / titanbridge / cyno **** everywhere ) and with that "almost no logistics", u need to grind hours for ships, no real characterevolving... everybody has the same skills, no differences between chars, no personalisation(come on... some crappy tattoos...)


And thats just the stuff that i think about in the last 10 minutes... there are bazillions things in eve that are like that.

Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2011.03.30 06:23:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

If you judge EvE for its graphics then you are probably (considering) playing the wrong game.


Originally by: Luminus Mallus

- PVP: there's absolutely NO player skill involved (only 7 different types of activable modules, anyone? weapons, painters, webbers, jammers, vampires/ neuters, scramblers, dampeners, and that's it). Combine the modules, that's all the combat skill you "need".



Yes, you are definitely not for EvE.



Last time I checked, 1 second ago, eve was still a game.
It's supposed to be appealing -under-every-aspect-, and to be fun. Entertaining to spend your time with.
Entertainment in video games is, by all definitions, a combination of graphics, sound and gameplay. When a game is outdated, its entertainment value decreases.

In particular, in a game like eve, where you spend more time looking at sheets and flying through jumpgates than doing anything different, lacks the necessary graphical detail
- all ships undock from the same exact spot in all stations, superimposing and intersecating eachother
- all weapons aim hit and concentrate on the very same spot on every ship. How can this possibly be since all hits produce damage which considers a random variable (there's a random seed in the calculation, which is not solely based on angular and transversal speeds)
- lack of particles (there could be awesome 2d particles on ship hits and shield hit effects, toggleable through a checkbox in options)
- lack of ricochet (it'd be awesome if projectiles and lasers bounced with a simple "spark like" effect" on shields and armor, these toggleable, too)
- shell casings for extra eye candy. weapons that eject 2d casings in space. You actually spend the WHOLE projectile when you fire (even laser crystals consume) so it's accurate to suppose the casing is ejected, when it could be actually "recycled"
- lack of damage textures. Don't get me started on the "smoke" when your ship gets into hull damage.

So I conclude that I'm not playing the wrong game, but rather that eve fails to deliver modern entertainment under many forms, graphics today being sadly one of the most important of all.

Plus, in conclusion, I feel like I need to re-quote this. Seriously.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

Yes, you are definitely not for EvE.


You write that eve is not for me... but wait a second... you're suggesting that -I- should adapt to eve, and not the contrary?
Well you sure are thinking about one commercial model that I don't quite get.

"who gives if the game is unbalanced, flawed and outdated? There's a lot of players that are a-ok with that (another 1000 players in the next two years, in which time 2000 others would have left).
The other players? Those playing the other games? **** them. We don't need subscriptions."

Yeah. Like with cheaters (automatic miners and such), history shows that leaving things as they are and ignoring the problems altogether is the perfect ultimate solution... NOT.

I suggest that you open your eyes and accept the fact that all the points I mentioned ARE REAL.
My aim is to give advice to those who would consider subscribing. Until now, there hasn't been any valid counterargument.

Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2011.03.30 06:33:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Oddymandius
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

If there were ever a fair fight, winning'd be as "easy as", having more money and having an older character
lrn2play


Sadly I couldn't add this reply to the necessary wall of text above.
Well since you imply that I'm at fault here, let's try this.

YOU create a new caldari char, and play for a week.
I wait and we duel on a caldari ship of your choice.

Do you still think that you'd win? That I'd not be able to copypasta the same pvp setup, and tear your ass apart with my tech II equipment and my supped up skills? I have a 3 year old char with maximum gunnery, targeting, navigation, etc. plus billions in assets... and you think you could compete?
Seriously?
Remember that this would not be the usual fight where your boyfriends are there to help you gank a poor bastard while you perma jam him.
This'd be one on one.
Same ship class, but different equipment.
I'm sure you realize by now the imbecility of your "learn to play" statement.

All in all,
We could even agree on the same ship and same equipment, and still I'd be greatly advantaged by all means: being able to target faster, being able to tank harder, being able to orbit quicker, being able to hit way better.

You are an obvious demonstration of the entirety of flaws I wrote about, regarding pvp, since you're completely oblivious of its basic mechanics and about what new players have to face when they play eve.

PewPewLaser
Posted - 2011.03.30 06:38:00 - [43]
 

I agree with alot of his points. The game needs to have all of those graphics features he listed. This isnt 2003 any more. The game has a large playerbase. Sure incarna's features are great, but it doesnt improve much on the foundation; spaceships shooting other spaceships.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.03.30 09:04:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus
Do you still think that you'd win? That I'd not be able to copypasta the same pvp setup, and tear your ass apart with my tech II equipment and my supped up skills?


Based on this - I'd not bet against it.

In your fantasy land where all PVP is solo, in ships of exactly equal class and fitting, you're right.

Well done, OP - you've made a comment applicable to every MMO and a whole bunch of normal games, too.

The point made to you, was that a new pilot HAS a place in PVP. It's just not solo against a much older character.

Having said that, I would bet I could take a month old character in a Frigate 1 v 1 and paste your ass with it. Having the skills trained is not the same as using them, buddy.

No, not the same frigate. No, not the same fittings. But thinking outside the box and making it work is part of strategy, something you clearly lack.

I could go on and on about your absolutely stupid whine, but why don't you just do us a favour (and yourself if you hate it) and **** off?

Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.30 09:13:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Aderata Nonkin on 30/03/2011 09:13:27
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
DON'T SUBSCRIBE.
or just subscribe if you like a fossilized game in which updates are delivered for a specific subnormal minority that doesn't even imagine what fair play means.


You, sir, are an idiot. My advice to you is wake up from your incessant ranting or just G.T.F.O. Seriously.

Congrats on writing the most moronic post on this forum though. You should receive a prize for it but I'm afraid you might be too stupid.

Better yet, just leave the game already.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.30 10:36:00 - [46]
 

Quote:

It's supposed to be appealing -under-every-aspect-, and to be fun. Entertaining to spend your time with.



It's not a theme park. Maybe you are after some STO or something?

This is a sandbox, it's up to YOU to make it appealing and up to YOU about IF and how to spend your time with.

Sure, it has its many flaws, MMOs are not easily born or grown creatures.
I have played so many... even the most succesful ones had day zero flaws that lasted forever.

EvE is no exception.


Quote:

So I conclude that I'm not playing the wrong game, but rather that eve fails to deliver modern entertainment under many forms, graphics today being sadly one of the most important of all.



Yes you are playing the wrong game.

The lack of some of this fluff is what makes me able to both play at home and when I go in hotels etc. where I only have a laptop or a netbook. Being able to dual box on 1 netbook to me is worthier than having the 1337 effects.

Also, fluff effects take lots of development time and then are only cool for 3 months then they get old and outdated.

EvE is a game made to last and slowly grow, it won't get the amount of fluff you want.
One day *maybe* if they introduce microtransaction payed fluff then they'll get the additional (indie is enough) developers to keep up with the fluff development.


Quote:

You write that eve is not for me... but wait a second... you're suggesting that -I- should adapt to eve, and not the contrary?
Well you sure are thinking about one commercial model that I don't quite get.



You don't get it because you are not a trader.

Market (pressure) is the only one in command, not you or CCP. If market tells CCP they are under-delivering by means of less subscriptions THEN CCP will probably adapt. Or fail and close.

There's no commercial model, there's just demand and offer. If CCP's offer meets demand then they may safely ignore you, else they won't.

It's up to you to be part of that demand vs offer mechanism, you can only vote your displausure by unsubbing and hope many others follow you. Many enough to alter the ever dynamic mutual clash of forces that forms a market.

Gimmy Rotten
Posted - 2011.03.30 11:00:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus
[b]
For the idiots wondering "if a frigate can be owned by a battleship then why using a frigate", the reply is "if a battleship can be owned by a frigate then why using a battleship".


Go and kill a POS with your fregate.
Indeed you showed some good points about "oldities", but this year CCP will start the core refreshing updates, wait and see; or no... unsuscribe, one less whiner is better than nothing.


Wizzkidy
Posted - 2011.03.30 11:45:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Wizzkidy on 30/03/2011 11:46:00
The OP has some points that need to be addressed by CCP now and not in 5 years time. But not all his points make sence.

The GFX for the game are not that bad, yues the turret systems need changing and they will be, yes we need to see proper damage on ships and have this interact with the ship in question.

i would love to see some kind of module system for each key part of a ship that could be shot at and for this to affect certain systems.

you shoot out the guys afterburner then it takes damage and you could possibly try and divert power to this module, all this would be good stuff.

I cannot see any of this happening until a re-write of the client happens. It jus won';t happen and if it does it will be a complete half asked job by CCP. they would have to do it properly. This would change the WHOLE game after all.

OP you make some good points that I cannot be bothered to go through as Im at work , I would like to see changes but for the time being this isnt going to happen.

This doesn't make EVE a bad game though , its the only game with proper RISK unlike most other MMO's

Commander Azrael
Red Federation
Posted - 2011.03.30 12:28:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Oddymandius
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

If there were ever a fair fight, winning'd be as "easy as", having more money and having an older character
lrn2play


This.

I have plenty of isk and loads of SP and I still suck at PvP and get my ass kicked by people with a quarter of my SP Laughing

Neamus
Posted - 2011.03.30 12:28:00 - [50]
 

I agree with some of your points, there are areas within EvE that are long overdue for a revamp, but others I disagree with. An example being the graphics. Personally I think EvE's graphical style suits the game very well, its not exactly high-end, and it certainly doesn't strain my GTX580, but personally I still think it looks beautiful and it suits the game's subject matter very well. CCP are also making constant improvement to it, your claim that its essentially identical to the way it looked in 2003 is complete rubbish tbh.

I also disagree with your assertion that there's absolutely no skill whatsoever involved in PvP. If this were truly the case then presumably everyone would be equally just as good or bad as each other. There are only a finite number of module classes you can fit, but there are many different combinations and variations of those combinations that are all viable. And the strategy and tactics you adopt also have a large effect on the outcome.

PvE can be dull yes, especially if you spend all your time grinding lvl4's in a high end BS setup. But there is group content, WH and Incursions being prime examples. Perhaps you hate PvP, but the risk off being engaged in low / null / WH also adds some spice (at least it does for me) when grinding anomalies etc.

Using the analogy of RL BS, then yes it does seem silly that EvE frig > BS. But from a game balance perspective it makes sense, I remember when BS were much stronger than they are now, and it resulted in no one flying anything smaller. Everyone and their dog was flying around in BS with the absolute assurance that nothing apart from another BS was any threat to them. At least with the current balance, while far from perfect, it at least forces you to fly a balanced fleet. IE a 10 man BS fleet with no support from smaller ships will probably die pretty quick. Every ship class needs to be of some use, and generally speaking they are.

I could go on, but after reading your posts at this point I'm forced to conclude that you hate far more about EvE than you like. So my advice is that you quit immediately and go and play another game that is more to your liking. Its fine if you want to vent a bit, you've done that... But repeatedly telling everyone how much you hate everything, just for the sake of it, well it just makes me think that you lack the courage of your convictions. And that you're basically slowly morphing into a troll, an easy trap to fall into tbh.

admiral logonski
Posted - 2011.03.30 22:19:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: admiral logonski on 30/03/2011 22:20:45


started this game about 3 years ago with 1 account. 2,5 years ago made a second account. about 1,5 year ago i began asking myself: "why am i paying for this nonsense?". finished paying with real money (started using plex) one year ago. nowadays i only play because some corpmate shares an account with me and still wants to play this game and is willing to pay (plex or real money) for it. if my corpmates are out i'm out too. conclusion: you only play this game if you have someone to play with.




Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.03.31 00:36:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: admiral logonski
conclusion: you only play this game if you have someone to play with.



As, actually, any other game of this kind.

Neo Kuri
Posted - 2011.03.31 00:49:00 - [53]
 

CONCORD ESCORT LOL because I just plain can't be bothered to interact with the ~45k odd people that are on normally.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.31 00:57:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus
You write that eve is not for me... but wait a second... you're suggesting that -I- should adapt to eve, and not the contrary?
If you played a round of CS_Italy and noticed that there were chickens, would you start to demand that there would also be sheep and beets and tractors and wide open plowed fields, thus adapting the game to your newly awakened taste for a farming game…

…or should you go and play Harvest Moon instead?

Incidentally, the chicken was gone in CS:S, so so much for adapting the game to the farmboys.

Logos Shaar
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.03.31 01:53:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus

- pve equipment different from pvp equipment; annoying, time wasting configuration set up from one to the other.

Only if you are trying to fit one ship back and forth instead of having ships for each purpose you want in EVE. Sadly you catch yourself in a loop on this one - you claim to have played a while and have a lot of isk ... And yet you can't afford just one additional ship to keep handy. As for the difference from PvE to PvP, that is every game on the market right now worth it's salt.
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

- entry level ships and ship equipment invalidating highest tier ships and ship equipment at the same level of efficiency (1 frigate module = 1 battleship module)

Where do you get this from? Most all modules are percentage based ... Meaning the battleship with much higher base amounts of everything benefits more. The exceptions are also a non-issue due to ship power grid and fitting requirements (LSE on a frig anyone?). A frig in your specific example is much easier to jam than a battleship ... Either you play the game blindly (as the linked ship loss earlier implies) or ... Well, there is no or.
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

- static ship fitting with only 7 types of equipment. titans (ship size '10000') having 8 gun modules, like battlecruisers (size '100'), having 8 gun modules, like destroyers (size '1').

yeah, we will ignore the variables like gun size, ship tanks, overall fitting options ... Let's just focus on the destroyer that has 8 guns ... And dies to any competent cruiser pilot.
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

- miserable "looking for group" technology. No fleet templates, no fleet invite auto-accept. not the least incentive to fleet with unknown people for occasional missioning... or mining. No bonuses from grouping and no incentive to socialize.

Random fleets with people you don't know who might just want to use the fleet to blow you up without CONCORD involvement. Sounds awesome. Maybe if they used the system to teleport us to one of 7 missions that everyone has done every day for the last three months to get one ship mod upgrade per month ... Oh, and they disabled PvP in these missions so we were forced to put up with incompetent people while we did this ... Even more awesomeness.
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

- fallimentary economy. overinflation and speculation without any arbiting lead to hangar hoarding. highest tier equipment only available in controlled space, making it realistically unavailable to all of the playerbase, and subject to out of control speculation.


I had to laugh at this one. EVE is the best economic model I have yet seen in a game ... Are you one of the people who cries when your orange juice goes up in price because of a hard freeze ruining a whole crop?
Originally by: Luminus Mallus

Sadly but not surprisingly there is not a single valid counter argument to what I wrote.

Just because you are blind does not mean the world is dark.

Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2011.05.23 06:59:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Logos Shaar

Only if you are trying to fit one ship back and forth instead of having ships for each purpose you want in EVE. Sadly you catch yourself in a loop on this one - you claim to have played a while and have a lot of isk ... And yet you can't afford just one additional ship to keep handy. As for the difference from PvE to PvP, that is every game on the market right now worth it's salt.


Quite clearly your assumptions are puerile to say the least. The point is not the quantity of ships in my hangar, all ready and fit for different purposes,
the point is that if you want to pve and you're in space, you need dock and do some time consuming and annoying **** to pvp. The fact that you have a ship ready is just as stupid, as well. Spend millions or even billions to equip maybe an identical ship, for a different setup. Ridiculous other than stupid. And then you have to undock. Very "heat of the action". Wasting four minutes (counting just warps, dock and ship timer times).
And your statement about pve/ pvp? Ridiculously false. I don't even waste my time trying to find one successful mmo game that requires you to separate pve/ pvp equipment to even have a chance.

Originally by: Logos Shaar

Where do you get this from? Most all modules are percentage based ... Meaning the battleship with much higher base amounts of everything benefits more. The exceptions are also a non-issue due to ship power grid and fitting requirements (LSE on a frig anyone?). A frig in your specific example is much easier to jam than a battleship ... Either you play the game blindly (as the linked ship loss earlier implies) or ... Well, there is no or.


Just simple examples: a scrambler in a frigate scrambles a battleship at full efficiency despite size difference. a webber in a frigate webs a battleship at full efficiency despite size difference. a painter in a frigate paints a battleship.
There is no "frigate class scrambler", "frigate class painter", "frigate class webber", etc.
The point is not "battleship vs frigate" (so ridiculously full of failure), but the even worse "frigate vs battleship"

Originally by: Logos Shaar

yeah, we will ignore the variables like gun size, ship tanks, overall fitting options ... Let's just focus on the destroyer that has 8 guns ... And dies to any competent cruiser pilot.


This has nothing to do with what i referred to in the ridiculous flaw of the weapon slot limitation regardless of class. A titan has the maximum number of guns of a destroyer, and can't defend itself from flea sized ships.

Originally by: Logos Shaar

Random fleets with people you don't know who might just want to use the fleet to blow you up without CONCORD involvement. Sounds awesome. Maybe if they used the system to teleport us to one of 7 missions that everyone has done every day for the last three months to get one ship mod upgrade per month ... Oh, and they disabled PvP in these missions so we were forced to put up with incompetent people while we did this ... Even more awesomeness.


I really don't know where are you coming from with these absurdities. Even now you can fleet with random people, yet i see no "abnormal" grief or abuse. Point is, the current fleeting system is utter **** and fail.

Originally by: Logos Shaar

I had to laugh at this one. EVE is the best economic model I have yet seen in a game ... Are you one of the people who cries when your orange juice goes up in price because of a hard freeze ruining a whole crop?


Eve is a game, but you seem one of those deluded fools that forces himself to think otherwise just because games are for nerds, or some other mental ************ byproduct.
Eve's economy is infested and destroyed by speculation. In the year 10000000 a.d.

Originally by: Logos Shaar

Just because you are blind does not mean the world is dark.

But eventually i'm not blind just because the game's full of fanboiis.

Shira Elan
Posted - 2011.05.23 07:09:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Kaedama Katar
Look. This isn't World of Warcraft in space. It is what it is. You either like it or don't. If you don't, play something else or go grab a beer or get a blow***. You can also do it all at the same time. Raises the fun-factor.


Look up the love it or leave it fallacy.


Monstress
Posted - 2011.05.23 08:13:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
You write that eve is not for me... but wait a second... you're suggesting that -I- should adapt to eve, and not the contrary?
If you played a round of CS_Italy and noticed that there were chickens, would you start to demand that there would also be sheep and beets and tractors and wide open plowed fields, thus adapting the game to your newly awakened taste for a farming game…

…or should you go and play Harvest Moon instead?

Incidentally, the chicken was gone in CS:S, so so much for adapting the game to the farmboys.


lol'd

+1

Leah Solo
Posted - 2011.05.23 09:58:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus
...



cool story bro Laughing

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.05.23 10:43:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Tosser Galore on 23/05/2011 10:47:15
Edited by: Tosser Galore on 23/05/2011 10:46:37
7.5% bonus to armor repair amount of armor repair systems per level....

armor...and that's not even a viable shield fit (even if you have all the elite shield certs..)

Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/item_database.php?id=i24690&tab=loadouts#ixzz1NAeu8200


Regarding your "cheap flimsy (albeit flown with twice your SP) frigates pinning down bigger ships with "e war" lol.

Small fast raider types of vessels have always been a the threat to larger slower ones.
See the somalian pirates modus operandi.YARRRR!!


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