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Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:05:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Luminus Mallus on 25/03/2011 09:18:04
I'm a long time pc player and I enjoy a good game regardless of the genre.
The definitive goal for -any- commercial game is to attract a great number of players so that it may grow and eventually incorporate diversificated gameplay to cater all tastes. Eve fails, despite many years in activity, because of its community.
I actually wish I never had fallen for it, but I joined hoping for better times that never came. I wish someone had made a post like this at that time.

Eve today (almost actually identical to 2003):
- 2003 graphics, albeit with shadow maps and hi res textures; no particles; no damage textures; (pathetic) All your weapons hit the enemy ship same spot, without impact effects; Destroyed ships don't release debris. What remains in space after a fierce battle is... a joke called wreck. Identical polygon meshes regardless of ship.
P.S. for all raging dribbling idiots: since the dawn of computer games, YOU CAN TOGGLE OPTIONS WITH A CHECKBOX IN THE OPTIONS MENU. Too laggy? You'd just uncheck "more debris" in options.

- No deambulation. Community is actually a forum and an ingame chat channel (that you can't filter or sort -disgusting-)... in 2011.
This deambulation thing is like the duke nukem forever vaporware. Deambulation coming since forever. Oh yeah. It'll be this summer (it was sponsored what, 4 years ago?). Reasonably, only an idiot would believe it before seeing it, at this point.

- PVE content is ridiculously repetitive, especially since it's divided into 'categories', and level 5 agents have ALL been moved into low security space, which is utterly and completely stupid, since nobody really plays level 5 missions now.
Plus, you often need to jump several gates to get to a mission, as if it was intended to delay you/ annoy you: why not issuing missions in the same sector you're in? If the problem is isk influx, reduce the rewards, the drops, etc; everybody agrees that it's more fun to get straight into the action than to travel like an idiot back and forth,
especially since you, -get a hold of this- ... need to be in the same space station as the agent to accept/ turn in missions... in the year umptenthousand.

- PVP: there's absolutely NO player skill involved (only 7 different types of activable modules, anyone? weapons, painters, webbers, jammers, vampires/ neuters, scramblers, dampeners, and that's it). Combine the modules, that's all the combat skill you "need".
If there were ever a fair fight, winning'd be as "easy as", having more money and having an older character, which is ridiculous for today's games communities.
Yeah, you don't improve your skills. They "grow over time". You'll actually need months to fly a certain spaceship or fire a certain gun. -Seriously-.
However, there's no chance that you'll fight a fair combat against a single opponent.
All game instruments are in favor of cowardish and miserable approach to warfare. It's come to a point that it has its own word for it. "Gank" gang killing. Disgusting.

- If your ship is configured for PVE, you will be defeated in a PVP setting, and equally the opposite, actually excluding the possibility to have fun playing both without a ridiculous in-hangar ship reconfiguration.
Insurance from ship loss is a ******ed joke that doesn't cover your modules, or the actual cost of your ship (for example a machariel can cost nearly 1 billion isk, yet it'll be insured for 90 million).

- Most important of all, the utterly idiotic idea that a frigate can jam/ scramble a battleship 30 times its size and 3000 times its mass, with a single module, can only be the mind bogglingly miscarriage of a subnormal game designer.
- I talked about eve with two dozen people over the years. All of them tried it.
They weren't put off by the economy, or the learning curve. They were driven away by the lack of actual gaming detail.

Alty McExpendable
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:06:00 - [2]
 

Don't subscribe. Haven't been any good updates for two years and probably won't be for another two years.

Chiana Moro
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:13:00 - [3]
 

Please contract all your stuffz to me at Jita 4-4 for hauling to pick up easily.
Thank you in advance.

(Only valid point being missions are mindboggling boring).

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:13:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus
The definitive goal for -any- commercial game is to attract a great number of players so that it may grow and eventually incorporate diversificated gameplay to cater all tastes. Eve fails [...] I talked about eve with two dozen people over the years. All of them tried it. They weren't put off by the economy, or the learning curve. They were driven away by the lack of actual gaming detail.

If you mean EVE fails in becoming a bland "everybody welcome" 10+ million subscriber sellout, then yeah, you're right, EVE totally fails in doing that.
And yet, other than minor fluctuations, subscription counts have been increasing at an almost linear rate a short while after the game's launch.
Yes, it has quite a lot of flaws, however it still is the only game I would consider paying a subscription for (and the fact that it lets me pay via PLEX purchased with ISK ensures that I'll probably never leave)... I challenge you to name ONE OTHER MMOG that could possibly be more appealing to me than EVE.

I count all of that as a win in my book.

Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:14:00 - [5]
 

TL;DR

**** THAT NEEDS FIXING
problem omega)There is more detail into the spreadsheets than there is in the game mechanics. Want people to dwell into low sec? Give them a chance, for ****s sake how much could it take to think this out?
FIX 1 - pay for concord escort. they'll be there to fight as AI wingmen.
FIX 2 - create an 'escort duty' bulletin board where people put themselves up for hire

problem a) big ships with only 8 weapon modules, that can't defend against frigates. Out-of-mind imbecility in action.
FIX - add additional specific large-medium-small weapon slots for increasing ship classes. Make it so that TARGETING limits the amount of weapons you can fire simultaneously. Only a completely brain damaged idiot would not agree that it's about time to fix this absurdity about frigate vs battleship.
For the idiots wondering "if a frigate can be owned by a battleship then why using a frigate", the reply is "if a battleship can be owned by a frigate then why using a battleship".

problem b) a frigate can jam/ scramble/ web a ship bigger in class with a single module
FIX - again a design flaw that can't be possibly understood or tolerated. there is no "reasonable" in game or out game rule that would possibly allow this. Debatable fix? The bigger the ship class difference, the more of the same modules you need. Frigate vs battleship? 5 modules. Not enough slots? Get a bigger ship.

problem c) insurance system is a joke. it is utterly ******ed. even a 4 year old can see this.
FIX - is there even need to write about this? don't you get it already? FULL ship insurance. PURCHASE VALUE + MODULE VALUE. You'd "only" lose CARGO. Can be exploited? SURE. But it's a start. Add "time on service" "battles fought" parameters to the ship so you can show off that your vessel is in service since a long time, and that you're not an insurance abuser piece of ****. Also add a public ship cemetery for each player to make things easier.

problem d) player economy is... dim-witted. When a module can cost up to 1 billion isk, yet you can't insure it or replace it... how are you supposed to use it knowing the risk?
FIX - somewhat connected to C. Point is, there's no way to warantee an influx of isk to the casual player to allow him fuel a combat activity. Mining/ hauling for fighting... pathetic. You possibly can throw your lives away mining for hours on end while watching **** on the other screen, to raise a few mill and waste them on a ship that gets ganked 10 hours later. A non brain damaged player, he won't.

problem e) pvp. 'nuff said.
FIX - with previous points fixed, pvp shouldn't be an issue at this point.

problem f) pve... annoying ideas that wound up adding to repetitiveness to a truly saddening game experience.
FIX - allow warp to bookmark inside a gate, increase fleet rewards so that teaming up with people actually increases your rewards, fix that fleet can't warp to you when you're inside a gate, allowing them to warp to you. Add fleet templates (you ALWAYS have to confirm a fleet invite, regardless of who sends it to you, you ALWAYS have to move people around or give them boost or other roles, regardless of the times you put them in such roles). I could go on.

problem g) all ships undocking from stations exactly from the same spot, superimposing eachother and intersecating eachother. disgusting.
FIX - like many other graphical aspects (weapons always hitting the same spots, no debris, no ricochet or particles on projectile/ laser impact, etc.) it'd take just a few hours to bring actuality to the game.

Kaedama Katar
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:15:00 - [6]
 

Look. This isn't World of Warcraft in space. It is what it is. You either like it or don't. If you don't, play something else or go grab a beer or get a blow***. You can also do it all at the same time. Raises the fun-factor.

Alty McExpendable
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:19:00 - [7]
 

In case you hadn't noticed, this guy is trolling.




Or is a terrible dimplecake, but I think he's trolling.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:24:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Alty McExpendable
I think he's trolling.

After just the first post, I would have maybe agreed.
After the second post, I tend to believe he thinks he's serious.

okst666
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:40:00 - [9]
 

Why do you say he is trolling?

Many of his points are absolutley true.

In my corp, whenever someone comes up with an eve related idea the standard response is: You can't do it.
When it comes to the why the standard reply is: It would be fun or make sense. EvE has no fun.

Then we get back to spin ships in forcefields, because the evil frigate that just jumped in can easily pwn all of us.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:44:00 - [10]
 

Trololo ;3

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:51:00 - [11]
 

OP: You want WOW, or possibly WOT. EVE is not for you, as you do not have any skill, and no brains to appreciate that EVE is far deeper then purdy pictures.

Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.03.25 09:56:00 - [12]
 

I agree that maybe EVE's biggest problem is channelling players into carrer paths. When I first joined EVE, I was not really prepared for 'The Sandbox' and I felt like there was this whole game here,and I did not know what to do with myself. Many other MMO's take a player from creation and just take them on a linier path towards their next goal, like most games. But once I met people and joined a corp it changes. The community is a lot more than the forums and a chat channel. The community in EVE is one of the best I've ever come across. Corp level, and at a game wide level.

If EVE ever becomes about gameplay to cater for 'ALL' tastes I think that would be the day I'd want to quit EVE. There are gameplay issues, and a list of fixes and features that CCP has dropped from all it's expansions over the years, and they need to go back and bring that to the game. But I still love EVE Online.


Should L5's be in high-sec? NO

Is PVE content repetitive? Yes. But to be honest look at any MMO out their, PVE content is repetitive, I don't care how you dress it up, it's click, attack, get XP, rince, repeat.

Should PVE content be changed to support PVP fit ships? Yes, totally agree. But there is no point forcing people that don't wanna PVP to PVP.

'Gank' can be defined in so many ways. Is the Blob annoying? Yes. Since I've joined FW I've not seen much blobbing, but people are gonna fight in numbers for an advantage. In 0.0 this is obviously a more serious problem as the game mechanics encourage bigger = better for the most part. Solution? Not really sure.

Having ship insurance cover full costs for Faction/T2/T3 hulls is ******ed, more so for mods. Why do we need more isk in the economy? If you can't afford to fly a billion isk fit mach, don't fly it. Did a ninja looter in a Merlin scram your billion isk fit L4 mission Mach, which then got ganked? (seeing a picture form from your post here :P)

Internetz Spaceship
Posted - 2011.03.25 10:00:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: okst666

In my corp, whenever someone comes up with an eve related idea the standard response is: You can't do it.
When it comes to the why the standard reply is: It would be fun or make sense. EvE has no fun.

+
Originally by: okst666
Then we get back to spin ships in forcefields, because the evil frigate that just jumped in can easily pwn all of us.


your corp sounds like pure fail to me.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.03.25 10:05:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 25/03/2011 10:08:07
Quick counters to obvious trol:

a) Insurance. Yup - it's meant to be that way. Going into any engagement with zero risk of loss would make the game ****ing boring.

b) Battleship vs. Frigate - I will confirm for you now, that a battleship cannot field light drones or smart bombs. Nope, there is no way it can attack the frigate. Basically, a frigate is an "I win" button that you should exploit. That's why everyone uses them exclusively.

c) Player economy - is largely the single most interesting thing about Eve, and why many people play it. Can't risk a billion isk ship? Don't fly it. Can't risk a billion isk module? Don't fly it.

d) PVP. There's a hell of a lot of skill involved. Sad for you that you don't get it. It's not all about Sp .. it's not even HALF about SP.

Anyway, I just worked out you're not actually a troll.

You're clearly butthurt about the loss of your Hyp. (EDIT: HOLY CRAP what a failfit, too)

Player error it looks like to me v0v

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2011.03.25 10:07:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
d) PVP. There's a hell of a lot of skill involved. Sad for you that you don't get it. It's not all about Sp .. it's about the numbers.

FYP

Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.03.25 10:08:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Quick counters to obvious trol:

a) Insurance. Yup - it's meant to be that way. Going into any engagement with zero risk of loss would make the game ****ing boring.

b) Battleship vs. Frigate - I will confirm for you now, that a battleship cannot field light drones or smart bombs. Nope, there is no way it can attack the frigate. Basically, a frigate is an "I win" button that you should exploit. That's why everyone uses them exclusively.

c) Player economy - is largely the single most interesting thing about Eve, and why many people play it. Can't risk a billion isk ship? Don't fly it. Can't risk a billion isk module? Don't fly it.

d) PVP. There's a hell of a lot of skill involved. Sad for you that you don't get it. It's not all about Sp .. it's not even HALF about SP.

Anyway, I just worked out you're not actually a troll.

You're clearly butthurt about the loss of your Hyp.

Player error it looks like to me v0v


Shooting ninjas... tisk tisk, they never learn... Razz

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.03.25 10:09:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Cyaxares II
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
d) PVP. There's a hell of a lot of skill involved. Sad for you that you don't get it. It's not all about Sp .. it's about the numbers.

FYP


Complaining about the blob is very FotM, isn't it? Do you feel popular now, do you feel one of the "in-crowd"?

Here, have a cookie.

If you can't find PVP outside of the blob, you fail hard bro.

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.03.25 10:18:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: okst666
EvE has no fun


I've said this before so I will repeat myself

Fun in Eve is 30% gameplay and 70% people focused. If Eve is no fun then that says to me you expect Eve to provide it. It does not and it will not. You provide the fun and doing it with other people is how.


What the OP is talking/ranting/getting all emotional about is valid to the 30% of the experience.
I agree with the statements, but the graphics items he highlighted are a bit of a stretch... That would require a complete re-write of the engine I believe

Aubrey Addams
Posted - 2011.03.25 10:38:00 - [19]
 

I don't care about the graphic. EVE looks cool. But only this is the good thing in this game. It looks a serious spaceship game with very cool graphic and design. But the fun-factor is in the same level as a simple web browser game. After 1 year of playing it, I realised this game is a cool-looking but really boring and unfair thing.

PVE: Boring as hell. U can make the mission simply, but you have to wait a lot to blow up the NPC-ships. It's not hard, it's not challange, its just a time-sink.

PVP: Is there? PVP for me is not the ganking. Thats not PVP. 1v1 is rare and If you don't have a lots of skillpoints, you are dead, no matter how 'skilled' you are.

Fair-play: Is there? Yes, just subscribe, traing for 1-2 years, then you can succes against the older players maybe.

Mining, industry, PI: Cool, but is that a game that I have to use 10 mins from my life every day to set up extractors. These things are not challanging. I used to do these but always forgotten because this is just a boring crap.

Training: Thats the biggest **** in EVE. Wait 20-30 days for 5% damage increase or something like this? I would maximise these times in 10days. Thats long too, but acceptable.

Alliences are a stupid thing again. Just corps would be more cool.

So, this game could be cool, but it suffers a lack of game-design, and there is no sign that CCP wants to change this. Make PVP, PVE enjoyable, fair chances for all corp, news and olds same, reduce training times 'cause im not paying for waiting, i pay for playing.

And for all of you who says WOW is a ****: If i subscribe for WOW, i immidiately can play, i never have to wait weeks for progress my char, there are always things to do and they are fair things in low levels too. Like you can go battlegrounds at level 11 and you opponents wont be level 80s like in EVEs crap PVP.

I'll never understand CCP, cause they can have the worlds best spaceship game and much-much more subscribers if they can step over their outdated philosophy...

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.03.25 11:11:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
OP: You want WOW, or possibly WOT. EVE is not for you, as you do not have any skill, and no brains to appreciate that EVE is far deeper then purdy pictures.


I used to think this tooLaughing

I have been doing nothing but skilling for the past few months.I started playing other games and was reminded what fun is.Its fun to play a game and be rewarded for winning.Don't see the reward in doing anything in eve anymore.Unless you buy plexRolling Eyes

Nerf this nerf that.Bad balance.

Amarr/min = win and the rest fail.For a time I thought what the hell..Ill train something else.But then I thought whats the point?

The last person left who I liked to play with quit last month..this month will be my turn I think.I haven't played in like 6 months,time to close the account.

As for my stuff lol,I worked too hard and long for it.Go buy some plex and get your own.

+1 for the op

Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
Posted - 2011.03.25 11:12:00 - [21]
 

You know, I thought I failed at EvE until I read the OP and all the people defending him. These suggestions are almost as ******ed as a suggestion I read earlier about removing sov ugh

The BS vs frigs argument totally invalidates the high SP vs low SP argument, and they work that way for that very reason... so a 1 week old player can actually stand a chance against a 5 year old player. You know you can fly any given non-capship as well as any 5 year old player inside of 6 months? Did you know that any SP above that 6 month period either doesn't apply to the current ship or gives said 5% boost(which can be countered with implants or the appropriate tactics, like mods, kiting, etc)

tl;dr ******ed post is ******ed.

Caghji
Posted - 2011.03.25 11:30:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Luminus Mallus
Want people to dwell into low sec? Give them a chance, for ****s sake how much could it take to think this out?
FIX 1 - pay for concord escort. they'll be there to fight as AI wingmen.
FIX 2 - create an 'escort duty' bulletin board where people put themselves up for hire




I don't normally feed trolls but as there have been a number of similiar thread complaints about low sec i have to say they are complete rubbish

I have lived as a carebear (have played for 3+ years and killed nobody!) indi in low sec for the last 12+months. Have two corp mates who help out but basically through a few cunning and imaginative Endeavours I now run 15 POS moon towers and 1 mining tower - I have negotiated plea bargains with local aggressors (pay them a little - not much) and now my tiny corp is pulling so much cash we are about to buy our first JF (that's right current fuel runs are exciting freighter runs through 6 low sec systems round trip with a web scout and recently a Ewar scorpian 'Back - up' - who says hauling isn't excitingRazz)

We have really got to know our 'area, the 'locals' and have struck loose aggreaments with many of them - the biggest fleet I have seen roaming is about 20 ships but you soon find the quiet times to operate in throughout the week if that is your thing

I have found all this fantastic as I merrily get on with now building a manufacturing operation finally - also based out of low sec - and i fail to recognise many of the complaints of low sec

I suppose if you want to 'dwell' in low sec u just need to be a bit more subtle and clever than the OP

If someone could point me in the general direction of another MMO game that can fill these playing need please do - happy to give it a try


I am sure there are plenty of 'improvements ' that low sec could have

the one I would actually like to see right across hi sec and low sec is rat killing influences the security rating of the system - so I can get my my grubby paws on those .4 moonsRazz





Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.25 11:32:00 - [23]
 

If you aren't hopelessly addicted yet and you are that bitter. Quit.

Nothing in the next two years will drastically change up any spaceship flying content, what you see is what you will get.

Only reasons for staying past is if you want the see the Twilight GFX engine before that comes out or you absolutely need a space barbie doll to prance around in your quarters... other than that.

Bye

Plippy Ploppy Cheesenose
Posted - 2011.03.25 11:32:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: okst666
Why do you say he is trolling?


If you can't argue your points without being rude or agressive - why should I listen? = troll.

Gieron
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.25 11:37:00 - [25]
 

Quote:
PVP: there's absolutely NO player skill involved

If that's true, how come I suck at it?

Luminus Mallus
Posted - 2011.03.26 23:12:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: okst666
Why do you say he is trolling?

Many of his points are absolutley true.

In my corp, whenever someone comes up with an eve related idea the standard response is: You can't do it.
When it comes to the why the standard reply is: It would be fun or make sense. EvE has no fun.

Then we get back to spin ships in forcefields, because the evil frigate that just jumped in can easily pwn all of us.



It is sad that this reply is the only one actually meaningful:
DON'T SUBSCRIBE.
or just subscribe if you like a fossilized game in which updates are delivered for a specific subnormal minority that doesn't even imagine what fair play means.

In conclusion, reading the other replies was like wading through **** from deluded, butthurt fanboois with a morbid attachment to a game that doesn't deliver.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.03.26 23:22:00 - [27]
 

Dear OP,

I could edit your post to match pretty much every MMO on the market - but frankly I can't be bothered. Enjoy whatever ever else you want to do - bye.

C.


Julien Brellier
Posted - 2011.03.26 23:29:00 - [28]
 


Gibsie
Posted - 2011.03.26 23:41:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
- Most important of all, the utterly idiotic idea that a frigate can jam/ scramble a battleship 30 times its size and 3000 times its mass, with a single module, can only be the mind bogglingly miscarriage of a subnormal game designer.


*Cought* Don't cruise around Somalia ... YARRRR!!

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.27 00:40:00 - [30]
 

/forum whine


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