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blankseplocked Cyclone Assistance for L3s Needed
 
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Charles Gibbling
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.24 15:44:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Charles Gibbling on 24/03/2011 18:54:05
GOAL:
I have limited time to play, so I am looking to be able to run L3s efficiently, and eventually L4s as well.

BACKGROUND INFO:
I'm needing some advice on my L3 Cyclone setup. I must be missing/overlooking something or just need to change ships. I have been running missions for Republic Fleet, and have worked up to L3s now. The first several missions, I had no problems completing. Last night, I run the Cargo Delivery Mission - Serpentis version (which I have run before as an L2 mission). That mission tore up my Cyclone several times over, and although I didn't lose the ship, I still had to warp out and repair 3 times.

Here is my Eveboard (for my current skills): My Current Skills

Current Resistances (from EFT):
72.3% EM
72.6% Thermal
71.2% Kinetic
76% Explosive

Current Ship Fit from EFT:
[Cyclone, Mission]
LOWS
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer I
Gyrostabilizer I
Basic Tracking Enhancer

MID-SLOTS
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field I
'Anointed' I EM Ward Reinforcement
Ditrigonal Thermal Barrier Crystallization I

HIGHS
425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon I, Phased Plasma M
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile

RIGS
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

DRONES
Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

QUESTIONS:
1. Am I still missing something skill-wise? (I realize that some skills may be on the low-end, but I am working on training them up.)
2. Should I change to a Hurricane instead of the Cyclone?

Any advice or suggestions is appreciated.

Zin Zy
Posted - 2011.03.24 15:50:00 - [2]
 

You could change the tech 1 items with best named, like 'Scout' 425MM AC's.

Also, the EM shield hardner is useless against Serpentis, they deal Thermal and Kinetic damage, so change EM for another Invunrability or perhaps Thermal hardner.

Usually I would go for specific hardners, so 2 therm and a kinetic. Try it out and see if you get higher Therm and Kinetic resistances.

Zaqar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2011.03.24 15:52:00 - [3]
 

You don't really have a tank on it. You've got some resists and a little buffer, but no booster or recharge mods.

In any case, isn't that the mission where you just grab the stuff from the can and run?

Puppet Dictator
Pirate Moon
Posted - 2011.03.24 16:02:00 - [4]
 

This:

"I am looking to be able to run L3s efficiently, and eventually L4s as well. I'm not worried about ISK/hr"

... makes no sense. Just sayin. Efficiency = isk/hr. There is no other reason to run the missions other than LP/hr. What I think you are looking for is the ability to survive L3/L4s in your chosen ship perhaps? :)

Alonzo Harris
Posted - 2011.03.24 16:33:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Alonzo Harris on 24/03/2011 16:43:22
Your skills look decently solid for a 7 mil SP character who kinda does many things, the only thing really lacking is the Battlecruiser skill itself and some more lvls on your gunnery skills.

Then we get to fitting and tactics:

- I'm sure you noticed that as rats get in closer they start to hurt you more so you don't really want that, but as you fit AC's you kinda have to. Therefore, switch to 650mm arties instead and stay at range a bit lowering incoming DPS, small stuff that orbits you is for your light drones take care of

- if you look at survivial.org for your mission you'll find you need to tank therm and kin, so switch to therm and kin hardener. The logic you use against angels (explosive+invul) doesn't work here

- using that info from survival.org you identify the triggers that'll spawn the next wave so you leave those to last. This means putting in some effort to figuring out how to do a mission... before you do it. Once you've completed missions a few times you'll memorise them but when you start out you really want to prepare properly.



Here's a Cyclone fit for Serpentis missions you should be able to use, yes it uses a cap booster... get used to it as you'll need them anyway :)


[Cyclone, LVL 3 low SP]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Shield Boost Amplifier I
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I


Hobgoblin II x5





Thing is, as you already stated, a Hurricane is a much better ship as it has a better/easier tank (even though it doesn't get a tanking bonus), it uses a shield regen fit, and does more damage as well. Still the Cyclone works fine (we all did it back then, without rigs and when Minnie wasn't so hot).

In short; change your fitting/strategy, put in effort to prepare for what you're about to encounter.



- edit -

Here's a Hurricane fit you could have a look at, making use of the shield regen tank idea. Once you get comfortable with the tank you can drop one of the SPR for another gyro or tracking enhancer:

[Hurricane, LVL 3 low SP Angel]
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Explosion Dampening Field II

650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
650mm Medium 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
Small Tractor Beam I
Medium 'Knave' I Energy Drain

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Warrior II x5
Warrior II x1

Charles Gibbling
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.24 16:35:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Charles Gibbling on 24/03/2011 16:38:12
Edited by: Charles Gibbling on 24/03/2011 16:37:47
Originally by: Puppet Dictator
This:
... makes no sense. Just sayin. Efficiency = isk/hr. There is no other reason to run the missions other than LP/hr. What I think you are looking for is the ability to survive L3/L4s in your chosen ship perhaps? :)


That is what I am looking for. Sorry for the confusion.

@Zin Zy - Very true I'll look for named T1 items and replace them. I'll also change to mission specific hardners. I typically do, but in this case I didn't

@Alonzo - Thanks for the advice. I actually do look up missions before running. I guess my issue was trying to run an omni-buffer, instead of mission-specific.

@Zaqar - For the mission, yeah you can just grab and go, but I was in the mood to clear it last night. Also, what would you suggest changing out if I go recharge and booster?

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.03.24 17:09:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Caleidascope on 24/03/2011 17:13:02

1) Like someone above said, you have wrong resists, you should have had kinetic and thermal.

2) Microwarp drive makes you a huge target, that might be part of why rats hit you so hard, I assume you were pulsing it to get into ac range, but if you were running it for a long time, then you were hit real hard.

3) Make sure you use right ammo, for Serpentice I use thermal. With right ammo you kill rats faster which means fewer rats are shooting at you and you take less damage.


I have run L3 in Cyclone, sniper fit with artillery and heavy missile launchers. My early fit was:
High
5x 650mm arti
3x heavy missile launchers

Mids
10MN ab
medium shield booster
shield boost amplifier
2 mission specific resists

Low
3x pds
dc

full flight of drones

The advantage of this fit is that you run ab and shield booster full time, it is cap stable. You use Keep at Range to kill frigates and cruisers, either Keep at Range or orbit to kill rat battlecruisers.

I later put 3x ccc rigs and replaced pds with dps mods.

Charles Gibbling
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.24 17:43:00 - [8]
 

Thanks for the advice everyone :)

I'll get to work changing out my fit and go with the 650mm instead of the ACs, and drop the MWD for the AB instead. I'll also do a better job of fitting specific to missions.

Aznwithbeard
Minmatar
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:11:00 - [9]
 

Step 1, ACTIVE TANK UR CYCLONE.

If that doesnt work, run L3s with passive shield hurricane.

Veronica Kerrigan
Minmatar
Hand Of Midas
F0RCEFUL ENTRY
Posted - 2011.03.24 19:14:00 - [10]
 

I personally keep this in my hangar for when I don't feel like being in null/ doing lvl 4's:


[Cyclone, lvl 3 missions]
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Cap Recharger II
Medium Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier I
Explosion Dampening Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II

720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Fusion M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Fusion M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Fusion M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Fusion M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Fusion M
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Havoc Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Havoc Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Havoc Heavy Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I

At all lvl 5:
250 dps (1727 volley)
206m/s
137 tanked omni/218 tanked angel
Cap stable at 53%

Shaposhnikov
Posted - 2011.03.25 12:12:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Shaposhnikov on 25/03/2011 12:13:24
In my opinion you don't really need to be cap stable for L3's, you just need to have enough of a cap buffer so you can rep through the heavy DPS. Below fit has almost 6 minutes of cap and 300 DPS with depleated uranium, perma run your hardeners, and pulse your booster during the npc waves. Drop everything to meta 3 and your DPS only drops to 280 (depleated uranium again). You can also swap the tracking enhancer for another gyro and just let your drones take care of the frigs. I ground L3's in both the meta fit and the T2 fit below with no issues. I would not recommend it for L4's though, just use the isk from your L3's to buy a Phoon or Mael.

[Cyclone, L3]
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Medium Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

650mm Artillery Cannon II, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Depleted Uranium M
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Widowmaker Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I


Hobgoblin II x3
Hammerhead II x2

[Cyclone, Meta 3]
F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines
Pneumatic Stabilization Actuator I
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System
Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System

Medium C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
Ditrigonal Thermal Barrier Crystallization I
Non-Inertial Ballistic Screen Augmentation I
Shield Boost Amplifier II

650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon, Depleted Uranium M
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon, Depleted Uranium M
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Widowmaker Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I


Hobgoblin II x3
Hammerhead II x2

Charles Gibbling
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.25 18:48:00 - [12]
 

I spent some time reading up on Ship Fittings, since apparently I was confused on putting the appropriate items for a good tank. Going with the fittings posted here, I am now using this setup:

[Cyclone, Mission]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Gyrostabilizer I

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Medium C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Shield Boost Amplifier I
Ditrigonal Thermal Barrier Crystallization I (mission-specific)
Ballistic Deflection Field I (mission-specific)

720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Phased Plasma M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Phased Plasma M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Phased Plasma M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Phased Plasma M
720mm Carbine Howitzer I, Phased Plasma M
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher I, Widowmaker Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

It is running very well for me in missions, as long as I do my homework and switch out ammo & hardeners to suit the mission.

Also, as soon as Gunnery V finishes, I will be working on Weapon Upgrades IV and Tactical Shield Manipulation IV to get to more of the T2 items.

I appreciate all of the suggestions and advice.

Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.26 21:32:00 - [13]
 

Cyclone is nice - almost like a sleipnir baby.
Best to actively tank it - even a medium booster - with the bonus it has would give you nice tank.
Also instead of using t1 base guns you should really look for the t1 meta 1,2,3,4 - meta 1 and 2 especially should be considerably easier to fit(cpu wise) and cheaper to buy, and have higher damage.

You can also use use drain modules on npc's (nosferato's)that would give you some cap back.

For pve you don't necessarily need MWD - use an AB - orbiting at 5km or so would increase your tank since moving targets are harder to hit.

Don't forget - fit hardeners to match the incoming damage from the npc's. You will lose 10 seconds in station(or if you're like me and keep your modules in containers you will lose 30 secs) but you'll have much easier time tanking.

AC's need a lot of tracking enhancers - the faster you get the t2 version the better - if you had 3 slots to spare I'd put 2 te 1 gyro - the reasoning being that you can hit the stuff better and further away .


 

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