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foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.03.24 10:05:00 - [31]
 

Like someone pointed out skill is about consistency in performance.

And I can assure you there are players out there that are way more consistent than average. So there is plenty of skill to be had in EvE.

Qui Shon
Posted - 2011.03.24 13:54:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Qui Shon on 24/03/2011 13:55:02
Originally by: Diesel47
It is not so much skill, instead it is knowing what to do in certain conditions... Experience and knowledge would be more appropriate terms.

Skill not so much..


People, like you, seem to use "skill" in a rather narrowly defined sense, one that doesn't make much sense to me. I'm guessing this use of the word originates from FPS or similar games.

If two people fight where both would have a chance to win, yet one guy does clearly better not because of chance, not because of a random factor, but because he does the right thing, makes the right choices where the other guy doesn't, then that means he is more skilled at the game.

In other games it might be reaction times, or accurate timing or mouse control, or accurate prediction of other players intention..keeping that race car just at the edge of traction, conserving more energy then your opponent in that fighter plane while matching his maneuvers, and so on, list is endless.

In Eve it is not only knowledge and experience, but application of these, which constitutes "skill".

MotherSammy
Clan Sammy Trade Empire
Posted - 2011.03.25 06:38:00 - [33]
 

Thanks for the replies gents, you've given me a lot to ponder.

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.03.25 13:44:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 24/03/2011 13:55:02
Originally by: Diesel47
It is not so much skill, instead it is knowing what to do in certain conditions... Experience and knowledge would be more appropriate terms.

Skill not so much..


People, like you, seem to use "skill" in a rather narrowly defined sense, one that doesn't make much sense to me. I'm guessing this use of the word originates from FPS or similar games.

If two people fight where both would have a chance to win, yet one guy does clearly better not because of chance, not because of a random factor, but because he does the right thing, makes the right choices where the other guy doesn't, then that means he is more skilled at the game.

In other games it might be reaction times, or accurate timing or mouse control, or accurate prediction of other players intention..keeping that race car just at the edge of traction, conserving more energy then your opponent in that fighter plane while matching his maneuvers, and so on, list is endless.

In Eve it is not only knowledge and experience, but application of these, which constitutes "skill".


By saying "you people" you mean gamers that actually play games that require "real" skill huh?

Maybe you would have to actually play games that aren't Skillpoint or level based to understand the concept. If you don't get it... Then you just don't get it.

As much as you guys want to believe that EvE PvP is heavily "skill" based, I'm sorry to tell you that it isn't.

You can have as much skill as you want, but when your ship is being jammed by a falcon there isn't anything you can do but sit there.

Sylvandros
Caldari
Btech Refugees
Posted - 2011.03.26 00:23:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Diesel47
Originally by: Qui Shon
Edited by: Qui Shon on 24/03/2011 13:55:02
Originally by: Diesel47
It is not so much skill, instead it is knowing what to do in certain conditions... Experience and knowledge would be more appropriate terms.

Skill not so much..


People, like you, seem to use "skill" in a rather narrowly defined sense, one that doesn't make much sense to me. I'm guessing this use of the word originates from FPS or similar games.

If two people fight where both would have a chance to win, yet one guy does clearly better not because of chance, not because of a random factor, but because he does the right thing, makes the right choices where the other guy doesn't, then that means he is more skilled at the game.

In other games it might be reaction times, or accurate timing or mouse control, or accurate prediction of other players intention..keeping that race car just at the edge of traction, conserving more energy then your opponent in that fighter plane while matching his maneuvers, and so on, list is endless.

In Eve it is not only knowledge and experience, but application of these, which constitutes "skill".


By saying "you people" you mean gamers that actually play games that require "real" skill huh?

Maybe you would have to actually play games that aren't Skillpoint or level based to understand the concept. If you don't get it... Then you just don't get it.

As much as you guys want to believe that EvE PvP is heavily "skill" based, I'm sorry to tell you that it isn't.

You can have as much skill as you want, but when your ship is being jammed by a falcon there isn't anything you can do but sit there.



I think the skill that eve asks for is in tactical and strategic thinking, when to fight and when to run.
The movements of the ships is limited and the weapons fire on their own so really as people have pointed out the operative skillset is...
  • Planning

  • Execution...and

  • Having the experience to work within the limits imposed through the mechanics creatively to react to changes and new information in the fight

Qui Shon
Posted - 2011.03.26 11:56:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Qui Shon on 26/03/2011 11:59:22
Originally by: Diesel47
By saying "you people" you mean gamers that actually play games that require "real" skill huh?

Maybe you would have to actually play games that aren't Skillpoint or level based to understand the concept. If you don't get it... Then you just don't get it.

As much as you guys want to believe that EvE PvP is heavily "skill" based, I'm sorry to tell you that it isn't.

You can have as much skill as you want, but when your ship is being jammed by a falcon there isn't anything you can do but sit there.



Laughing

Skill based games? Sure, like IRacing, the venerable GPL/GTL/GTR2 series, IL2, DCS Blackshark. Yeah I've played those, and they do take what you might call "skill", unlike some ****ty brainless fps which I suspect is your benchmark.

Battle in Eve doesn't start with the first shot fired, the first lock. It start before either side is even aware of the other. For some, skillful play is metagaming your alliance to smash the other alliance, for some it is avoiding to get jammed by that falcon like some nub would, using the tools at your disposal to greater effect then your enemy can. Where I live, w-space, it is all about being aware of your surroundings, knowing more then your enemy does and using it to your advantage.


Oh, and I didn't say "you people". I said People, like you, ..." There is a difference.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2011.03.26 14:41:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Diesel47
You can have as much skill as you want, but when your ship is being jammed by a falcon there isn't anything you can do but sit there.


If you actually had skill you would have never found yourself in the position to be jammed by that falcon.

Think about that grasshopper.

VaMei
Posted - 2011.03.26 18:06:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: VaMei on 26/03/2011 18:24:00
IMO, excellence in Eve is about good scouting, proper fitting, good guess work as to what the enemy is going to bring to the plate, and knowing how to counter it with the ship(s) that you have. While battles are more often decided by numbers; good fitting, gang/fleet composition, and proper execution & teamwork will make a big difference in the outcome of a fight.

In a 1v1, once you've engaged, skill boils down to optimising range, speed & transversal (while denying your enemy's attempts to do the same), with some power management on ships with active systems.

Personally, I don't find PvP in Eve rewarding. I can get kills and I can shrug off losses, but it rarely feels like I outplayed someone or that I was outplayed. More often one player is simply outmatched.

If you care to see a game where I enjoyed PvP, check out SFCII; a 2000 title based on the Star Trek universe. Combat in that game was much slower than Eve, the battles were much smaller and were in 2D, and the ships were not configurable, but the combat mechanics required much more player skill at the tactical level.
Power management was arguably the most important skill since it affected everything: speed, weapon re-loading, shield reinforcement, Electronic warfare and various other functions were all based on the amount of power your ship could provide at the moment, rather than managing a diminishing capacitor.
Each ship had several weapon systems, and each weapon on your ship had a firing arc, with ships of the various races having common themes for their weapon configurations.
Your shields were divided into 6 segments, with each segment taking damage and regenerating independantly.
Rather than having a ship perform at 100% until it's destroyed, SFC utilized system damage meaning that you would loose weapons, power, speed, and targeting accuracy to damage as a battle progressed.

Skills in SFC involved managing power consumption against speed & systems usage, while trying to maneuver for range & facing. Since re-load times are much slower than they are in Eve, firing a weapon at the optimal time was much more important than in Eve.

I did some digging and found a couple of old tactical tutorials.
Plasma Ballet
Saber Dance

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.03.26 19:47:00 - [39]
 

For me; "skill" is the difference in living and dying when you commit to a fight you know you could (or would) lose more often than not but actually win.

An example of my skill was my old school Pre-NOS nerf EOS vs 3 vagabonds that were reported nearby in an intel channel.

First I wanted them to think i was a prize so headed to the gate they would be coming to killed a rat and went to loot it but aligned to a nearby planet knowing when they entered they would see me warp there thinking I was fleeing. I knew they'd probably warp to 30 assuming i'd warp to zero, so I went to 30.

So they warp in to different ranges but one does land at 30 - pew - tackle, he's going to die even if I do. Takes a while to down him, and the other close range in and out a bit doing fairly heavy damage up close breaking tank to very low armour, but dual rep Eos takes down 1 vaga.

Now they are cagey, i'm repping back up as their DPS is not high enough at long range to break tank, but they know i'll run out of cap charges eventuly. So after a while of tanking them and making lunges at them to tackle (burning more cap), I decide to "play dead" - I stop reps and make it look like I'm capped out.

Sure enough as I enter hull they close in and pow my reps are back on and another lunge tackles a 2nd vaga - grind grind grind - he goes down, last vaga flees after I make a couple more lunges for him and drop ECM drones anyway.

Of course I had some luck in the fight, but the "skill" was in anticipating their moves, adapting to the situation and always controlling (or at least feeling in control) of the fight.

Vixisti
The Scope
Posted - 2011.03.26 20:22:00 - [40]
 

Skill in eve could be defined as a mixture of knowledge, guile and the ability to do the right things at the right time when engaged in combat.

Knowledge of likely ship fits and their counters, knowledge of your opponent.

Guile and cunning can be key in Eve combat. You can learn how to fly to outwit your opponent even before a shot is fired, I've lost count of the times when I've had my MWD on and been slowboating around at 1/4 speed trying to bait an opponent with a range fit ship by convincing him I'm AB fitted. When they engage and you approach at full speed and overload they don't know what hit them when suddenly they're webbed and scrammed and....dead.

When actually engaged in a fight you have to be able to take in the data that is being supplied to you, think clearly and act accordingly. Speed, range, transversal/radial velocity and the ability to change your plan of attack when things are working against you.

Eve combat isn't a twitch and aim skill like a FPS it's much deeper than that and the pilots who can master it can surely be called 'skilled'



Alsyth
Night Warder
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:25:00 - [41]
 

Skills... Lots of meanings. "Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience."

There are a lot of "skills" involved in Eve pvp.


My example :


I have enough skillpoints to fly most ships I use "almost" like an all5 character (95~105% on everything).

I'm an EFT warrior: I know how to fit my ships according to what I want them to do. I don't just copy/past a battleclinic loadout, I'm able to create viable setups.
EFT warrioring also means I know usual fittings of almost every (subcap) ship in the game, what tank to expect when the have a logistic on them, which tracking/tank they'll have, whether they have slaves or not depending on how fast their tank fail, how fast they will lock, what their targeting range is, which munition to use on that ship for everyone in my fleet...

I know the game mechanics in my playground (hi and low sec), agression mechanics, timers...
I have a map of my neighboring systems in my head.

I know most of my opponents. Which pirate corp is friend with which one, who their scouts are, which ship each of these pirates usually fly in, which fit... I know how to use battleclinic and other killboards to gather lots of information about them.

I know my fleetmates very well. I often FC, and I know how to create a fleet setup according to my fleetmates SPs, available ships, and prefered roles. I know what they can do and what they couldn't do even if they wanted. I know they are human, and not drones.
I'm a successful leader in small fleets with my friends, I know how to talk to them, how to make myself understood.
I have a good global vision of the grid/system during a fight.



But I have poor skills when it comes to "dexterity" in piloting a ship.

I often burn my modules with overload, I'm not good with manual orbiting.
I have difficulties with micro-management of my own ship: I can't fly things like frigates (except bomber), curse, pilgrim, logistics, dual account (except a cloaky scout) when I lead.
I'm rather bad at soloing because of all that.





See? Lots of different kinds of skills... All of them matter.

equincu ocha
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.03.27 14:35:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: VaMei
Edited by: VaMei on 26/03/2011 18:24:00

If you care to see a game where I enjoyed PvP, check out SFCII; a 2000 title based on the Star Trek universe. Combat in that game was much slower than Eve, the battles were much smaller and were in 2D, and the ships were not configurable, but the combat mechanics required much more player skill at the tactical level.
Power management was arguably the most important skill since it affected everything: speed, weapon re-loading, shield reinforcement, Electronic warfare and various other functions were all based on the amount of power your ship could provide at the moment, rather than managing a diminishing capacitor.


Never played that game, but in eve managing your cap is very important, and if you do it wrong then you can end up with no guns, speed, tank, e-war, and no power left to even warp away.

Quote:
Each ship had several weapon systems, and each weapon on your ship had a firing arc, with ships of the various races having common themes for their weapon configurations.
Your shields were divided into 6 segments, with each segment taking damage and regenerating independantly.
Rather than having a ship perform at 100% until it's destroyed, SFC utilized system damage meaning that you would loose weapons, power, speed, and targeting accuracy to damage as a battle progressed.

Loss of weapons = ecm
Loss of power = neuts
Loss of speed = web's and scrams
loss of targeting accuracy = tracking disrupter

All of those can happen at the beginning of the fight, not just as it progresses
You can also burn out your mods if you overheat to long, rendering them useless

Quote:
Skills in SFC involved managing power consumption against speed & systems usage, while trying to maneuver for range & facing. Since re-load times are much slower than they are in Eve, firing a weapon at the optimal time was much more important than in Eve.

Because your timing of volleys doesn't matter at all in eve, lol, ever used artillery (not talking in alpha fleets in 0.0 either)

The real skill in eve is being able to use your knowledge of the game and it's mechanics to your advantage

Alemana Hockeystick
Posted - 2011.03.27 22:53:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Diesel47

By saying "you people" you mean gamers that actually play games that require "real" skill huh?

Maybe you would have to actually play games that aren't Skillpoint or level based to understand the concept. If you don't get it... Then you just don't get it.

As much as you guys want to believe that EvE PvP is heavily "skill" based, I'm sorry to tell you that it isn't.

You can have as much skill as you want, but when your ship is being jammed by a falcon there isn't anything you can do but sit there.



I think what you mean by skill is natural or trained athelete/sportsman-like ability to make quick and precise actions dynamically based on sensory input.

But that's a somewhat narrow definition of the word 'skill.' There are a number of other skills: puzzle solving skills, analytical skills, problem-solving skills, social skills, etc. to list a few. I think most people will accept that playing chess requires a high degree of skill, either natural or trained, even though you don't need any physical skills to win in chess.

There are many other actions, most people will agree, that require high skills (none of them physical or fast-reaction) to do successfully: infiltrating a tightly knit organization and finding their weaknesses; persuading a hostile organization to see things your way; making a large number of people to behave like a cohesive group; gathering intelligence and assessing opponents' capabilities and intentions; sizing up the task and your own capabilities to do it; calculating the odds of various outcomes of the situation; creating a deception to misdirect the opponents to your advantage; and so on.

BTW, skills to do the above well are all important skills to do well in EVE PvP. If the only skill you have is the fast reflex skill, I think it's difficult to get far in EVE, or even to like EVE.

DR BiCarbonate
Minmatar
Basgerin Pirate
Posted - 2011.03.27 23:59:00 - [44]
 

combat awareness, the correct fit, and skill all go hand in hand

Pooshka
Posted - 2011.03.28 06:56:00 - [45]
 

I really don't understand what's so ego-damaging about admitting 'I lacked the skill' or 'the other dude was a better pilot'. Actually, a lot of people seem to find it easier to say 'I was being stupid', or 'I made a mistake' instead of admitting that the other pilot was simply more skilful.

You will always encounter better pilots in EVE and you'll lose to them - this is the fun part of the game so appreciate the experience. When you look back, a 'good fight' you lost will be a better game experience than 'easy gank' you've had.

Unfortunately, Kill Mail works in the opposite way. It makes mudane fight look flattering but can make a good fight look like a failure. Once you get over this you'll find your PvP experience a lot more enjoyable and will find that your 'skill' is actually improving.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.28 07:41:00 - [46]
 

Situation 1
Drake vs Megathron
Last night I saw a Megathron on D-Scan at P2. I warped in at 20, and landed *right* on top of him. I get a single MWD burst off to get some range before I'm webbed+scrammed - but he's dual webbed+pointed. My dual webs and superior speed keep him at some range, but I can't actually pull any range while he's neuting my face off. He's down in deep deep armor about the time I hit armor myself, and my ECM drones score a lucky jam. Shortly thereafter his ECM drones jammed my Hurricane backup and we both warped out of the fight.

Situation 2
Comet vs Firetail/T2 200mm MSE AC Thrasher'
I spy some FW guys running a plex, so I go get my Comet and come back. I warp into the plex and they're sitting at 0. I'm scrammed (but AB fit anyway) and decide to go after the Thrasher first - afterall its going to be where most of the damage comes from. And Hoooollllyyyy shiiiittt he puts out the DPS! I'm orbiting at 500m, but I really don't think it made much difference - but meanwhile I'm overloading my Neutron IIs/Centii SAR and using my set of Warrior IIs. I have about 10% armor left when he runs out of shields and goes down in short order.

Then I load up Null and AB after the Firetail... no luck. I just can't catch him - and surprisingly he's putting out a pretty good chunk of DPS himself. It became pretty obvious that I couldn't tank him (I'd only clawed my way up to 25% armor and it was time to shut down overheat), and he could easily kite me. So I did what any self respecting comet pilot would do. I pulled back my Warrior IIs, threw out the ECM drones, AB'ed straight at him, timed my turn around with the end of my AB cycle, overheated the AB, AB'ed directly away from him (towards a celestial) and got out of his scram range - then warped away to freedom.

Situation 3
I was in a scim flying with a Phantasm. We came across a Myrm, Hurricane(?), Broadsword. We took sentry guns to attack the Myrm, and he went straight for the Phantasm. We lured him off the gate ~50km. He's tanking like a beast so we (read: the phantasm) shift fire to the Cane that came in (I'm fairly sure it was a cane). Around this time a corp mate happens by (no, really) and warps in with an Arbitrator. We take down the Cane in short order, and now the Broadsword (MASSIVE TANK) and the Myrm (MASSIVE TANK) are the only guys left. So the Arbitrator gets driven off the field by the Myrm's drones and sentry guns, and then he takes a liking to me. The Phantasm caps out, and has to go dock up/get cap boosters/come back.

So I keep darting in right up next to the Myrm and keep him interested, take a bit of damage from his ACs/Drones and dart back out and trying my best not to blow up to the sentry guns. The Phantasm comes back and saves my bacon from sentry fire, and we finish off the Myrm. The Broadsword deaggressed and left - not that I think we could have broken him anyway.

Situation 4
3 corpmates and I were roaming low sec in battleships (looool). We wandered down to EOA, and got scouted by the locals. We jumped into the next system to find a massive camp for us - ~20-30 ships mostly cruiser/BC. They bubble up, we MWD towards each other and lay on the RR while we each go for targets. Careful primary calling and maneuvering netted us >5 kills and we drove everyone off the gate. Scoop loot, and high tail it to a station.

There's lots more, but only so many characters in per post in the forums. ;-)

-Liang

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2011.03.28 14:58:00 - [47]
 

When people refer to skill in EVE they don't mean warp to a ship and hit F1.

Skill in eve is planning! Skill implementing Intelligence, Reconnaissance, Manipulation, Psychology, Logistics, Tactics, Leadership, Discipline!!!

Carebears do not get this! This is why they fail!

Every battle should be won before it is ever fought!!!!

Rewak
Posted - 2011.03.29 03:19:00 - [48]
 

"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights." - Muhammad Ali.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.29 16:54:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: J Kunjeh on 29/03/2011 16:54:52
Being a relatively new pilot, and never having PvP'd yet, I found this thread really enlightening. I've always wondered myself how much flying skill is really involved in PvP...I understand tactics, planning, recon, etc., all of which to me are the important skills in Eve. But based on these responses and other things I've read, it seems that there can also be a fair bit of actual piloting skill in non-blob warfare.

Seamon
Posted - 2011.03.30 10:44:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: MotherSammy
I'm trying to wrap my head around the concept of a "skilled" pilot in this game.
Specifically I'd like to hear stories about battles you've had where skill actually made the difference between a win and a loss.

I hear a lot that a 'skilled pilot' or X ship that is 'properly flown' will make the difference but where is it apparent?
It feels like it's a matter of spending months or years learning what every single ship is capable of and how they're usually fitted and simply choosing your fights (when possible)

I want to hear success stories where your piloting knowledge and skill made the difference.
Not fights where a superior fit or ship or numbers made the difference.
Where you were the underdog and skill made the difference.

What modules you spun and when, what you did with range and speed, what advantages your ship had and what weaknesses you exploited in his.

When did skill make the difference?


I think you might enjoy reading Suleiman Shouaa's blog, flee on sight. He does write very well and you can feel the adrenaline rush even if you're sitting comfortably behind your computer. He does have the skill you're talking about.

It's mostly small gang / solo work with additional "ship intro*" and few announcements here and there. (*Fit's and such.)

He will fight even against the odds and more often than not it seems he win's the fights when compared to the casual/ griefer /camper types that soil themselves when premeditated / practices gank goes sour...and who are afraid to lose ships versus the calculated "recklessness" that Suleiman has. I suppose that comes with the experience.

http://fleeonsight.blogspot.com/

Link to battleclinis to his stats for those interested.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Suleiman+Shouaa

And yes. Losses are there too. And those interested in learning from the best Wink The Tuskers do recruit pilots... And for more reading, Suleiman has other bloggers linked on his site so you can find the good bad and ugly from there as you prefer...

Umm.. This post was not paid by the tuskers or the pilot mentioned above Wink
---------------
The actual recruiting info can be found
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1394796


ZeeOhSix
Blackwater Manufacturing and Logistics
Posted - 2011.03.31 17:26:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Karl Planck
Pilot skill is a term that gets thrown around a bit, but it almost always means careful planning up to the attack and good execution.


Nicely put. I'm a pilot IRL, and I always say that the skill overall is made up of skill, experience and judgement. PVP is the same way.

Example for me would be sitting at a gate with a buddy with a red like 175K out. I realize that the minute my buddy jumps, he's going to warp to the gate, probably shooting for 30K out. He knows my ship is Gallente, and therefore likely blaster-fit. So I tell my buddy to 1-2-3-JUMP and right before that I align to the red and MWD...and lo and behold when he jumps I'm right on him...and he's dead. Experience and skill...and a little luck for flavor :)

Jaxley
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.03.31 21:35:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Seamon
The actual recruiting info can be found
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1394796

Thanks for the advertisement, budday. =)

Beltantis Torrence
Wolfsbrigade
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2011.04.03 06:37:00 - [53]
 

Maybe not the best example but an example from today. I'm in a Ruppy, standardish fit for me at least, really great tracking (2xTEII), etc. I see a stiletto camping gate - I can burn back on the gate and get away but I figure his support isn't that near. I lock him, he points me, I start burning away to minimize transversal, stopping occasionally to get him to catch up so I can keep hitting him. I'm staying within 150km of the gate, I don't want an easy warp in for his buddies. His buddies show up, get me pointed with a drake just as stiletto pops. I start burning away from the Drake, out of web range, overloading MWD. My cap died @ 21km (still in point range), so I lost the rupture, but if I had burned a little less cap I could've survived to 25km and warped out.

Anyway, that's an example of piloting vs "my fit beats ur fit".

Podcat
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.04.03 15:27:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Podcat on 03/04/2011 15:29:16
these things make up skill in eve:
1. proper manual/assisted piloting (how to grab that orbit beneficial to you and vice versa or use agility difference)
2. experience with fits and ships so small things will give you hints and being able to exploit these
3. situational awareness (keep track of the 5 guys chasing you or all your gang members), know what will work vs a certain gang and what wont
4. react faster than opponents to changes because of experience

these things can give you 50/50 odds in fights where most people would assume you to be completely stomped.

its about 80% experience and 20% reaction time.

I do a pvp course where I teach a bunch of these things you would normally need to play a lot to pick up. send an eve-mail Morel Nova ingame for more information if you are interested.

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.04.03 16:55:00 - [55]
 

If I had to compare eve skill to something else, it would be something like chess.

Basicly knowledge > power.

slatybartfas Arbosa
Posted - 2011.04.03 20:25:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: slatybartfas Arbosa on 03/04/2011 20:27:05
Whatever knowledge you believe is required to be good at pvp in eve.

There exist some games that require the player to have all that knowledge and THEN! not only have that, but be amazingly good with a joystick and good reaction times.

EvE is just for old, lazy, slow people. (Your just protecting your ego if you believe otherwise)


Joystick.. yea, thats right. :)

72inches
Posted - 2011.04.04 15:27:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: slatybartfas Arbosa
Edited by: slatybartfas Arbosa on 03/04/2011 20:27:05

EvE is just for old, lazy, slow people. (Your just protecting your ego if you believe otherwise)


I am guessing you didn't appreciate the previous mentioned tactics. In that case I say you are too young for EVE.Twisted Evil

While I don't have the 'skills' in solo pvp, I do have fun trying, and appreciate when I see people that actually are good at it.

Nuniki
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.05 09:27:00 - [58]
 

Maybe someone should go ahead and define what exactly they believe skill is. If it's not not the entire pre-fight (scouting, fittings, group comp, organization, we can even throw in pilot numbers) plus the fight itself (ship know how like overheating, ranges, more organization, fight or flight, etc).

I mean, those are basically what determines who wins fights and battles in real life. The word skill seems to be commonly thrown around in a weak attempt to downplay losses or oppositions victories, when really, everything people typically complain about is what constitutes skill.

What is skill? Skill for broader battle type scenarios (like this game) is knowing how to win, and then winning. Period.

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.04.05 11:54:00 - [59]
 

Im pretty good at bumping, i think that counts :)

Magnus Witchspace
Posted - 2011.04.10 06:51:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Magnus Witchspace on 10/04/2011 06:53:30
Why is most of the skill debate revolving around pvp? Yes I know this is the title of the thread, but it's such a tiny part of Eve. Personally, I've found the overall skill of a player can be accurately determined by their grammatical skills. Get them into a conversation first if you really want to know your enemy. ;)

If all you know is pvp, then you're almost certainly at the bottom of the Eve food chain.


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