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Bronya Boga
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.23 00:38:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Bronya Boga on 23/03/2011 00:48:39
Hey, hows it goin?

alright so, in about two weeks ill be flying a vagabond. (and i do hope im posting this in the right forum) So #1 is this fit legit for small low sec gangs?


[Vagabond, Vagabond]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Scrambler II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Medium Energy Neutralizer I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

#2 any suggestions on how to fly this baby? Im new to minimatar in general(fly amarr). while im waiting for TQ to train I can fly it in SiSi so I'm gonna go there and practice, so yeah any suggestions or maybe advice? Cool

Sarkelias Anophius
Gallente
The Alpha and the Omega
Posted - 2011.03.23 00:52:00 - [2]
 

Don't engage Nighthawks by yourself.

As to the fit, you want a 24km point and either DCU or nano in place of the PDU. You'll generally be fighting at your outer falloff, so a long point is absolutely necessary. No reason to shut down their mwd either, since your hull is almost certainly faster than theirs.

Otherwise, fit looks pretty standard. Fly it like a kiting frig... speed and transversal is life. Don't get scrammed. Etc etc ad nauseam.

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.23 00:53:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 23/03/2011 00:54:33
Long point, never a scram. Fly in mortal fear of overheated web range, let alone scram, watch out for all recons and tackler frigs.
Might want a nanofibre or DC rather than the pds, learn to pulse your mwd. Drakes will **** your weak kinetic resist.

Edit: what he said, and watch this

ARES 003
Posted - 2011.03.23 00:59:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Sarkelias Anophius
Transversal is life.


nope. transversal means next to nothing at your range against turrets due to MWDs boosting your signature radius through the roof. its only relevant against missiles. just thought id throw that out there, dont want anyone getting the wrong idea.

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.23 01:05:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: ARES 003
transversal... ..its only relevant against missiles... ...getting the wrong idea.

Glitch Enat
Posted - 2011.03.23 01:11:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: ARES 003
Originally by: Sarkelias Anophius
Transversal is life.


nope. transversal means next to nothing at your range against turrets due to MWDs boosting your signature radius through the roof. its only relevant against missiles. just thought id throw that out there, dont want anyone getting the wrong idea.


im preety sure its the other way around sig is for missles traversal in for guns

Bronya Boga
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.23 01:13:00 - [7]
 

PDU is there because you dont have enough PG for the fit without it...anything to solve that? (i guess implants, but anything other then those?)

ARES 003
Posted - 2011.03.23 01:24:00 - [8]
 

you idiots...

try speed tanking a turret boat in your vaga at 20km.

try speed tanking a missile boat in your vaga at 20km.

apologize for being idiots.

Nano J
Posted - 2011.03.23 01:52:00 - [9]
 

Firstly, use a long point. Also, Barrage works a bit better since you have such amazing falloff. When engaging someone who is alone, orbit as wide as your point allows and pulse MWD accordingly. If you want to take on a small gang solo, burn away from them and kill any frigs that try to chase you. Always make sure you're aligned as you're kiting and be aware of what is trying to catch you. Avoid engaging high-tanked, fast, scramming frigs. If anything gets close enough to scram you- neut, kill, and reactivate MWD/warp away. Take advantage of the fact that you're in something usually faster than a BC and most cruisers (aside from cynabals, shield sfi's, couple others). If you can get away from them, then you can kill their tackle pretty easily.

If you're a fan of long-range ceptors (crow, ares, crusader) then you'll enjoy the vagabond. For a bit cheaper, you can try out a shield-fit stabber fleet issue. You lose the neut and turret range, but 425's hit cruisers harder and you get spare drones. You can also fit a couple nano's to make it align super fast, and it's about as nimble as a ceptor in fights.

My standard vaga fit does include the PDU. I can't remember if that's for fitting reasons or for cap/shield support. I can't justify DCU because it already has high shield resists and the spare low slot is better utilized for speed/agility or cap usage.

In my opinion, the vagabond is the best HAC and certainly one of the best solo-ships in the game.

tagen young
Caldari
The Night Witch
Posted - 2011.03.23 02:23:00 - [10]
 

Use a Medium ancillary current router and drop one of the extender rigs.

You gain some EHP and also its makes fitting easier.

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2011.03.23 02:46:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Bronya Boga
PDU is there because you dont have enough PG for the fit without it...anything to solve that? (i guess implants, but anything other then those?)


On mine, I replaced one LSE II with a Large F-S9 instead, and it fits without implants or fitting rigs. However, it does need pretty much perfect fitting skills including Shield Upgrades V.

Russel Williams
Minmatar
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2011.03.23 03:20:00 - [12]
 

[Vagabond, Vaga \o/]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I


Warrior II x5
^The fit I use that has served me well. 3.3km/s(4.7km/s overheated), nice DPS/tracking/falloff and quite a bit of fun to fly. You shouldn't be scared of tackling frigs in it because, well, you are barely slower than they are(Even more so if you actually know how to overheat) and you **** them with your tracking/damage. I generally warp around engaging blobs solo to pop their friggies. Its gotten to the point where the Caldari blobs don't wanna engage me anymore Crying or Very sad. Here is a tip though: Learn to manually pilot your ship at high speeds.

Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.03.23 03:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Glitch Enat
Originally by: ARES 003
Originally by: Sarkelias Anophius
Transversal is life.


nope. transversal means next to nothing at your range against turrets due to MWDs boosting your signature radius through the roof. its only relevant against missiles. just thought id throw that out there, dont want anyone getting the wrong idea.


im preety sure its the other way around sig is for missles traversal in for guns


nope. Both turrets and missiles are affected by the velocity and the signature radius of the target. With turrets, itís called tracking and signature resolution. With missiles, itís explosion velocity and explosion radius.

ARES 003
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:04:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sphit Ker
Originally by: Glitch Enat
Originally by: ARES 003
Originally by: Sarkelias Anophius
Transversal is life.


nope. transversal means next to nothing at your range against turrets due to MWDs boosting your signature radius through the roof. its only relevant against missiles. just thought id throw that out there, dont want anyone getting the wrong idea.


im preety sure its the other way around sig is for missles traversal in for guns


nope. Both turrets and missiles are affected by the velocity and the signature radius of the target. With turrets, itís called tracking and signature resolution. With missiles, itís explosion velocity and explosion radius.


you forgot the part where a vagabonds transversal has no effect against most turrets at 25 - 30 km.

DR BiCarbonate
Minmatar
Basgerin Pirate
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:18:00 - [15]
 

when fighting gangs/blobs never use orbit, never

Socio Stan
Posted - 2011.03.23 05:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: ARES 003
you forgot the part where a vagabonds transversal has no effect against most turrets at 25 - 30 km.


Prettymuch true, it's more about range and buffer.

Also, the ^ 3 Gyro, 2 TE, Polycarb Vaga very similiar to the one above is by far my favorite.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.23 05:03:00 - [17]
 

You are going to get raeped fighting in scram/web range with a Vaga.

ROXGenghis
Perkone
Posted - 2011.03.23 12:40:00 - [18]
 

Don't use fitting modules or rigs. All you need is a 1% PG implant, which is under 2M ISK. Use the extra low slot or rig slot for tank or nano. DC is quite nice while you're learning to fly it so you can last long enough to GTFO when you make an (inevitable) mistake.

Russel Williams
Minmatar
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2011.03.23 12:55:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: ROXGenghis
Don't use fitting modules or rigs. All you need is a 1% PG implant, which is under 2M ISK. Use the extra low slot or rig slot for tank or nano. DC is quite nice while you're learning to fly it so you can last long enough to GTFO when you make an (inevitable) mistake.

Unless you decide to fly with a set of Snakes. However, AWU 4 and Shield Upgrades 5 is needed to make a proper fit actually, well, fit.

ARES 003
Posted - 2011.03.23 14:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
You are going to get raeped fighting in scram/web range with a Vaga.


nope. 10mn afterburner/scram dual lse vagas are among the best for solo lowsec pvp.

the speed tank of a frigate, the dps and ehp of a hac.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.23 15:01:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Othran on 23/03/2011 15:13:58
Originally by: Russel Williams
Unless you decide to fly with a set of Snakes. However, AWU 4 and Shield Upgrades 5 is needed to make a proper fit actually, well, fit.


AWU5 is pretty much compulsory on Vagas. The OP is fitting a PG implant I assume and that takes slot 6. Bad bad move if you want to fly vagas as that's your speed slot.

[Standard Vagabond]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I


Warrior II x5


Oh and HG Snakes in a Vaga simply turn it into a wannabe Cynabal. Sad but true as I've been there. Better just to buy the Cynabal really Laughing

HG Snakes in a Cynabal now.... Wink

Edit - to OP : don't fly a Cynabal until you've had some fun in a Vaga. If you do it the other way around you will come to the conclusion the Vaga is as agile as a brick, which isn't really that true.

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.03.23 17:02:00 - [22]
 

Not to get too far off topic, but concerning the Cynabal...The only real advantage I see that it has over the Vagabond is agility. When fit in the same fashion, it is less than 20 m/s faster than a Vagabond, doesn't have a whole lot more EHP, has a terrible resist spread (even with an Invuln) and dps and range are extremely comparable between the two ships.

So for 100-120 million ISK more you get better agility and more drones...

(and yes, I've flown both ships)

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.23 17:15:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Othran on 23/03/2011 17:15:51
Originally by: rodensteiner
Not to get too far off topic, but concerning the Cynabal...The only real advantage I see that it has over the Vagabond is agility. When fit in the same fashion, it is less than 20 m/s faster than a Vagabond, doesn't have a whole lot more EHP, has a terrible resist spread (even with an Invuln) and dps and range are extremely comparable between the two ships.

So for 100-120 million ISK more you get better agility and more drones...

(and yes, I've flown both ships)


I don't think you've flown the Cynabal enough then. It aligns faster than a shield tanked Jaguar.

The agility on a Cynabal - and hence acceleration, which is all that matters on a Vaga cos of the cap - is insane.

Also I can tank a Cynabal to 40k+ EHP and do 4km/sec easily with nearly 500DPS. Hell I can get the same EHP as a Vaga, near enough the same speed, and I still have a free midslot.

I think you need to fly it more Wink Vaga is a huge disappointment after Cynabal.

Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.03.23 17:48:00 - [24]
 

Good day, Nano J:

Excellent tips; you've helped me learn something new today.

Thank you.

Nano J
Posted - 2011.03.23 21:32:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: ARES 003
Originally by: Target Painter
You are going to get raeped fighting in scram/web range with a Vaga.


nope. 10mn afterburner/scram dual lse vagas are among the best for solo lowsec pvp.

the speed tank of a frigate, the dps and ehp of a hac.


What are you smoking? that would be ignoring the beauty of the falloff bonus. The vaga does not have the tank to sit still and take on another HAC or BC head on like that. Beyond that, if you don't have a web then any AB frig/anything with a web will just motor out of scram range and leave while his friends kill you (that's if he can't stay under your guns, which most would). 60-80% of my kills in the vaga are frigs trying to catch you or run from you when they realize they're 80k from the rest of their fleet.

Someone please tell me I'm not the only one who finds this idea stupid. Otherwise, nice troll.

ARES 003
Posted - 2011.03.23 22:07:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Nano J
the vaga does not have the tank to sit still and take on another hac or bc like that.


i never said sit still. what you do is use dual 180 autos and outtrack your enemies. you can speed tank medium guns almost as effectively as a frigate with that setup.

Originally by: Nano J
any afterburner frig will simply burn out of scram range.


fail. ever hear of a powerful tool called medium energy neutralizer II?


there is more than one level of noobness. the first would be taking the vaga into scram range, but the second would be thinking that the vaga cannot go into scram range, period.

Nano J
Posted - 2011.03.23 22:55:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: ARES 003
what you do is use dual 180 autos and outtrack your enemies. you can speed tank medium guns almost as effectively as a frigate with that setup.



any BC or HAC would tank dual 180's for a long time. i'm not even going to mention missile boats. even if you could tank them long enough, the #2 rule in pvp is to never assume your target is alone. the vaga is made with the gtfo ability. you kill your target fast, then gtfo. that's what skirmish warfare is.

Originally by: ARES 003
fail. ever hear of a powerful tool called medium energy neutralizer II?



it's extremely hard to shut down a frig with AB completely with a single medium neut, especially if it has a nos. even still, it would still work just as good killing the same frig with a long point and 220's from 20k away. If that frig gets one pulse of heated AB or has a web, he'll get out.

a vaga with t2 AB only goes 1228 max (no speed mods/rigs). that's still slower than most AB frigs. Oh, and are you planning on suiciding your vaga for a frig kill? because no frig would attack you without backup, and you're certainly not fast enough (in speed or scan res) to catch one. Also, any BC with MWD and long point could hold you (if not kite you) until his backup arrives. You're only chance of getting a kill is a frig with no web (which wouldn't attack you solo anyway) or a t1 cruiser/BC with no web. Even then, chances are you won't survive because you're too slow to get away from the backup.

you're almost completely negating the vagabond's bonuses: speed and falloff. any pvp ship that goes in close needs to have a huge tank or be faster than its target even if it's webbed. while i'm sure it's possible for you to kill things with your setup, i'll bet you'll lose a lot more, and you greatly limit your targets. You could still try to bait frigs in a fleet from range, but you wouldn't be able to kill any long-range ceptors.

Have you even tried the standard MWD/long point vagabond, or did you just take your brain-child out to lowsec to gcc on noobs in rifters and harbingers?

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.23 23:21:00 - [28]
 

Sorry to hijack the tread a bit here but, Nanoj, could we discuss the SFI setups & tactics a bit further, I'm pretty sure I'm under utilizing mine, I only recently started fitting 425's instead of 220's on them, this sort of DPS certainly changes my whole thinking on the SFI's possibility s ?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Also, to the OP, the only time I've seen a Vaga used really effectively is doing what Nanoj suggested, kiting a small group off a gate for example then making quick work of any Frigs that give chase before a) the rest of the fleet can get a warp in & b) before the frig/s pilot realizes the mistake they are making.


ARES 003
Posted - 2011.03.23 23:26:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Nano J
any BC or HAC would tank dual 180's for a long time.


and your point is? they can tank 25km 220 vulcans a lot longer than up close 180s. your job is to kill quickly, not ponce about at 30km to kill frigs.

Originally by: Nano J
even if you could tank them long enough, the #2 rule in pvp is to never assume your target is alone. the vaga is made with the gtfo ability.


and an afterburner setup capitalises on that gtfo ability. being as fast as an afterburner frigate but with 30k ehp means a lot in lowsec, particularly for blasting gatecamps who could instascram your super mwd vaga.

Originally by: Nano J
you kill your target fast, then gtfo. that's what skirmish warfare is.


and somehow you think a vaga shooting far far into falloff will kill enemies quicker than a vaga shooting well within optimal?

Originally by: Nano J
it's extremely hard to shut down a frig with AB completely with a single medium neut


and your point is? mwd vaga has the same trouble with frigs, if not more due to being far less mobile when scrammed.

Originally by: Nano J
while i'm sure it's possible for you to kill things with your setup, i'll bet you'll lose a lot more, and you greatly limit your targets.


actually, the afterburner vaga has a far greater survivability than the mwd vaga.

it also can pick fights with almost anything, and is able to escape almost any fight you can't win (even against multiple enemies)

it has a better time dealing with gatecamps, dealing with being scrammed, killing frigs, and killing enemies fast enough to evade backup. thats a true skirmish vessel.

Axemaster
Posted - 2011.03.24 00:24:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Axemaster on 24/03/2011 00:27:30
Originally by: Socio Stan
Prettymuch true, it's more about range and buffer.

Also, the ^ 3 Gyro, 2 TE, Polycarb Vaga very similiar to the one above is by far my favorite.


Always good to see a fan of the fit I invented... Vaga Fit

And yeah, good advice given by other already. I'll only add that using a Dark Blood or similar 28km point is best, since you're outside neut range and it gives you better reaction distance. If you can afford it.

/end shameless self-promotion Laughing

EDIT: I should mention that while other people may have flown the fit before I came along, I invented it separately and was responsible for making it a standard.


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