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Chuck Do Ceti
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:25:00 - [1]
 

How did this happen?

I thought when someone stole from a can, YOU could attack them and in return they could defend themselves. BUT if you do not attack them then you can just look at there name in red and make funny faces at them and they can not attack unless you do first. HOWEVER the other day I was can mining with an alt, someone stole from my can then podded me. almost pod-killed me also but I was able to dock. HOW did this happen, and can I get my ship back?

gfldex
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:27:00 - [2]
 

The forum is not the right place for a petition.

Chuck Do Ceti
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:29:00 - [3]
 

was not making a petition, was asking if I was right or was I wrong thinking people can steal then pod.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:33:00 - [4]
 

1) you did not get podded
to be podded means your pod has been killed
2) if they steal then they go red and you can attack them,
3) if they steal and then recreate a can which you open, then you are stealing from them and they can keill your ship.
4) you cannot get your ship back unless you petition
5) other stuff

Chuck Do Ceti
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:38:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS
1) you did not get podded
to be podded means your pod has been killed
2) if they steal then they go red and you can attack them,
3) if they steal and then recreate a can which you open, then you are stealing from them and they can keill your ship.
4) you cannot get your ship back unless you petition
5) other stuff


1)I thought podded was when someone kills your ship and you are put into a pod, therefore "podded"
2)They stole from me. I had the can contents open on both screens.
3)I did not steal from them, there was no yellow cans anywhere in sight, only my white one
4) filing a petition as no one has answered my question (or myybe you did, just cryptically)
5) other stuff?

Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:50:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 22/03/2011 13:50:57
People can kill you unprovoked in high sec. IT's called "suicide ganking" or "suiciding" as Concord will come and destroy the one who shot you.

It's intended game play so probably, from what you've said, a petition will be pretty pointless.

High sec is "safer" - not "safe".
It's a gigantic difference.

Chuck Do Ceti
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Hakkar'al Gallente
Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 22/03/2011 13:50:57
People can kill you unprovoked in high sec. IT's called "suicide ganking" or "suiciding" as Concord will come and destroy the one who shot you.

It's intended game play so probably, from what you've said, a petition will be pretty pointless.

High sec is "safer" - not "safe".
It's a gigantic difference.


CONCORD did not show up at all. Why would someone suicide with a hurricane?

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.03.22 13:55:00 - [8]
 

They can always attack anywhere and at anytime. The only question is whether or not CONCORD responds to deal out a consequence for certain actions.

Yes, if they steal from your can, you can choose to do nothing. You may also choose to attack without CONCORD interference.

However, if you mess up and steal from their can because you thought it was yours (can flipping), then they can also shoot you for stealing from their can.

In hisec, there is also nothing stopping them from destroying your ship, and having CONCORD destroy theirs.

In nearly every case (baring exploits), the cold truth is that when you lose a ship it was you own fault. It is also pretty near impossible for anyone on the forums to state with certainty how your particular encounter played out; we don't have the logs, so we can only guess.

Alonzo Harris
Posted - 2011.03.22 14:10:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Alonzo Harris on 22/03/2011 14:09:52
he didn't pod you he destroyed your ship, also he's not allowed to pod you afterwards.

He can ONLY attack you without concord if you shot at him or if you took from his can. You can petition it but it would be a waste of (GM) time.

Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.22 14:29:00 - [10]
 

You're not getting your ship back. Someone attacked you and you have to live with it. Stuff like that happens in a sandbox MMO, nobody is holding your little hand in times of danger.

Next time you'll be more careful about what you're doing and pay more attention to your environment.

Chuck Do Ceti
Posted - 2011.03.22 14:50:00 - [11]
 

I don't think people understand, he stole from my can as I was transferring from one ship to the other. then attacked me without CONCORD interfering. Probably bugged and I already made a petition so I'll find out soon.

Alonzo Harris
Posted - 2011.03.22 15:01:00 - [12]
 

Ah that, yes that can happen. Thing is that according to CCP this doesn't exist. I've petitioned myself doing this many times (and told the victim to do the same, if he wasn't a bot/********) but the answer you invariably get is that everything was fine and it was all your own fault.

Orbilus AerCeruleant
Posted - 2011.03.22 17:21:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Aderata Nonkin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're not getting your ship back. Someone attacked you and you have to live with it. Stuff like that happens in a sandbox MMO, nobody is holding your little hand in times of danger.

Next time you'll be more careful about what you're doing and pay more attention to your environment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ugh


You sure no how to make a noobie feel welcome!! Shocked









Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.03.22 17:34:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 22/03/2011 17:39:47
Originally by: Chuck Do Ceti
I don't think people understand, he stole from my can as I was transferring from one ship to the other. then attacked me without CONCORD interfering. Probably bugged and I already made a petition so I'll find out soon.

How exactly were you transferring?

If your can was flipped, it wasn't your can anymore, and you might not have noticed.

EDIT: I can't find any killmails for your character. If you are desperate for another mining ship, let me know.

Zanzbar
Posted - 2011.03.22 18:11:00 - [15]
 

problem with post like these is that they lack the information needed to answer the question. if it waswnt a glitch then the relevent information is being left out, problem is that if you knew that such information was relevent you probably wouldent be asking us for our opinions.

from personal experiance almost all losses are due to user error either you were at war, he had kill rights on you, you had an agresion timmer on him or his corp, or you were in low null or W space. ive only had one loss due to a glitch in over 3 years and it took a few weeks and several re-examinations of my case before they found the problem.


Alonzo Harris
Posted - 2011.03.22 18:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 22/03/2011 17:39:47
Originally by: Chuck Do Ceti
I don't think people understand, he stole from my can as I was transferring from one ship to the other. then attacked me without CONCORD interfering. Probably bugged and I already made a petition so I'll find out soon.

How exactly were you transferring?

If your can was flipped, it wasn't your can anymore, and you might not have noticed.

EDIT: I can't find any killmails for your character. If you are desperate for another mining ship, let me know.


There is, and has been for years, an issue. If you drop ore into a jetcan and your hauler takes it out of the can at the exact time as the can flipper does they get aggressed to eachother. I'm not entirely sure if the hauler will get the "are you sure" message, but after chatting with my victims regarding this no one ever said this was the case (or confessed to it).

But it DOES happen and you can, sortof, time it if you pay attention. I'ts not really timeable ofcourse as it depends on how fast the hauler takes the ore but you can increase your chances a bit.

I ofcourse never tried to do this on purpose /whistles

Delve Tarragon
High Power Electric Propulsion Labs
Posted - 2011.03.22 18:53:00 - [17]
 

The one point I dont see through-out this thread is what level sec you were in. If you were in high sec, then yes CONCORD would have jumped in. However, it's possible you were in low-sec or null sec which has no NPC police presence.

Chuck Do Ceti
Posted - 2011.03.23 02:38:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Chuck Do Ceti on 23/03/2011 03:04:42
Edited by: Chuck Do Ceti on 23/03/2011 02:50:28
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 22/03/2011 17:39:47
Originally by: Chuck Do Ceti
I don't think people understand, he stole from my can as I was transferring from one ship to the other. then attacked me without CONCORD interfering. Probably bugged and I already made a petition so I'll find out soon.

How exactly were you transferring?

If your can was flipped, it wasn't your can anymore, and you might not have noticed.

EDIT: I can't find any killmails for your character. If you are desperate for another mining ship, let me know.


my 2nd account was the one who got the ship destroyed, his name is mark grahme.where do I find killmails?


I had the can contents open on both screens, transfer from one ship to the can, then from the can to the 2nd ship. the window did not close. 0.9sec=highsec. still awaitting on an answer to my petition although if I can find a report it might help me to fingure out what happened and not do it again.


just to point out, later that same evening he tried it again, but only took the one out of my can and flipped it, I did not touch it when the can disapeared.

I mine with a retriever and an iteron mark3, when retriever it full I jetison and split the contents into 1 stack of 1, the rest the contents, leave one in the can so I can just place new mined mats in from retriever and pull out with mark3, all the while keeping the can contents open on each window. its efficient and I dont have to worry about the cooldown for jettisoning, or, as I thought, can flippers.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.03.23 03:12:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 23/03/2011 13:24:24
OK - so - you were jet can mining with a miner and a hauler, leaving one unit of ore in the can to keep it open - and he stole ore from your can.


First off - use a bookmark instead of ore - that makes it easy to spot what to grab out of the can and what to leave in there. Also a bookmark takes up 0 space. You can create one where you are at using your People & Places/Places Tab by hitting the create bookmark button at the bottom of the page, dragging it into your hold, then jettisoning it or dragging it into the jet can.

Never leave anything in the jet can but the bookmark. If the hauler is away - stop mining if you think someone is after you until the hauler is back. To be sure - this means stop mining if your hold is full and the hauler isn't back. Mostly, with 3min's on the strip miners - that gives you 6 minutes for the hauler to leave and come back - so you shouldn't have to stop mining - but if you do - it shouldn't be for that long and you can avoid any vulnerability by leaving nothing in the can but the bookmark - as you can pull that into even a full cargo hold and leave them nothing to steal.


Have at least two tabs - one for standard view not including any asteroids - use the filters in the Over View settings to change that. The other is for mining using the default mining overlay. Only go into the mining tab when you need to target another rock - then switch back to your standard view - which has no rocks in it. This will let you see if someone is coming into your belt.

If someone does - do a LOOK on them and then adjust your POV around to the stern of their ship to see where they are going. If they are headed for you - pull the bookmark and pop the can. Stop mining until they go away. You might also want to shift your location some after they leave in case they bookmarked an asteroid to warp back to. They can bookmark your can if you have it out - so if you see someone come into your belt and leave - moving wouldn't hurt. Even if you pop the can - the bookmark is for where it was in space, not the can itself so they can still warp to that spot.

If you have a lot of people in your system - then look for a quieter system.

Also - you can mine mission space much more safely. Run missions until you get one with rocks in it - then salvage and loot your wrecks, then get your miner out and mine the rocks before turning in the mission - unless - you do have two characters and can leave one in the mission space to keep it open.

[Edit: deleted incorrect comment about drones auto attacking for theft].


I don't know what to tell you about your situation except to petition it but if you can keep someone from getting close enough to take from your jet can (by popping it yourself by taking the bookmark out) then you can avoid something like this in the future.

.

Smart Bomb
Caldari
Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
Posted - 2011.03.23 03:44:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Chuck Do Ceti
someone stole from my can then podded me. almost pod-killed me also but I was able to dock. HOW did this happen, and can I get my ship back?


he podded you then almost podded you? which is it?

Podded = pod destroyed

Chuck Do Ceti
Posted - 2011.03.23 03:50:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Smart Bomb
Originally by: Chuck Do Ceti
someone stole from my can then podded me. almost pod-killed me also but I was able to dock. HOW did this happen, and can I get my ship back?


he podded you then almost podded you? which is it?

Podded = pod destroyed


I'm kinda still new to the game, sorry for making a mistake, I assumed podded ment "put into pod by having ship destroyed", is that what, in my oppinion, means. I did not know podded ment having pod destroyed. my ship was destroyed, whatever term that is, then he shot my pod but did not destroy it. What is the difference between podded and pod-killed?

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:05:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Chuck Do Ceti
Originally by: Smart Bomb
Originally by: Chuck Do Ceti
someone stole from my can then podded me. almost pod-killed me also but I was able to dock. HOW did this happen, and can I get my ship back?


he podded you then almost podded you? which is it?

Podded = pod destroyed


I'm kinda still new to the game, sorry for making a mistake, I assumed podded ment "put into pod by having ship destroyed", is that what, in my oppinion, means. I did not know podded ment having pod destroyed. my ship was destroyed, whatever term that is, then he shot my pod but did not destroy it. What is the difference between podded and pod-killed?


don't worry about it, a lot of people make that mistake (that and a lot of people just read a few posts and reply to the thread)

I tend to call ship destruction getting popped, ships make a nice blue flash as they explode. that and "popped and podded" just has a nice ring to it.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:06:00 - [23]
 



There is no difference between being podded and pod-killed. It's the same thing.

When they blow up your ship it's ... "they blew up my ship" or popped it.


Don't worry - you're not even close to being the first person to make that mistake and you'll certainly not be the last.

Here's the EVE User Guide Glossary.

.




Sanic Xaqueter
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:35:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Sanic Xaqueter on 23/03/2011 04:39:29
edit out*

Smart Bomb
Caldari
Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:40:00 - [25]
 

Hey no prob even I make noob mistakes on occasion.

Just for clarification:

"my ship got popped" = Ship destroyed
"I got podded" = Pod destroyed, hello shiney new clone
Pos bashing = Destroying a player owned station
ba-bombing = 2-8 smart bombs on your ship pvping

Alonzo Harris
Posted - 2011.03.23 05:59:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Another issue is - did you have combat drones out? If they are out and set to aggressive they may attack the guy as soon as he steals from you. Go into the drone settings and set them to passive (select focus fire while you're at it).



Drones do not auto attack on can flipping, ever. They NEVER did that. That's just someone blaming a game mechanic instead of themselves, I guess it kinda looks better if you go "hey man, my drones attacked by themselves man..." rather than "YES, I attacked him first so he could then kill me, it's my own fault".

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.03.23 10:58:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Lady Go Diveher on 23/03/2011 11:02:34
Don't overthink this guys. There's one of two options:

A) He's a war-target and (apologies) is too noob to realise it

B) The 'bad-guy' was a suicide ganker.

Given that he shot at your pod, it can only be one of the above two.

The simultaneous ore glitch is easy to do with near 100% reliability if you know how, but the 'then he shot my pod' turns this into either a) or b)

EDIT: are you 100% certain he shot your pod? When your egg spawns out of the wreck you'll start with (seemingly) some missing shield ...

So he actually locked you and fired?

Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
Posted - 2011.03.23 11:14:00 - [28]
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember a trick where you could put a veld(or whatever) into someone elses can, and if they stacked it/took it think it was theirs they were flagged as stealing from you... slightly dirtier version of canflipping

I've never tried it, so don't know if it is true, but I should YARRRR!!

Beki 250
Posted - 2011.03.23 11:23:00 - [29]
 

I agree with Toshiro, but I'd like to add one thing.

Most can flippers don't want your ore. They want to salvage your ship. To avoid that, don't aggress them or let your drones do it.

One thing I've seen them do is leave your ore in their can and leave the area for a minute or two, as if to get a hauler. People who don't know any better may take back their ore. Then the can flipper shows back up in his freshly waxed Tengu and blows you to rags for stealing from him.

A lot of smart people have been playing this game for 8 years. Most of the possible tactical scenarios have been worked out pretty well.

Aderata Nonkin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.23 11:29:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Orbilus AerCeruleant
You sure no how to make a noobie feel welcome!! Shocked

You need to learn how to quote properly.

To answer your question: EVE is a harsh environment and everyone makes mistakes all the time. The sooner you learn to take responsibility for your actions the quicker you'll stop doing those basic mistakes and can get on with it.


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