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blankseplocked Restoring Dreadnoughts to usability - A siege module tweak
 
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Caile Sathinor
Gallente
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.03.20 09:35:00 - [1]
 

So I've observed a growing opinion I share that Supercarriers have replaced Dreads and have obsoleted an entire ship class aside from POS bashing. Before I go into the proposed fix for this, I'd like to lay out a couple facts:

-I am a Dread/carrier jockey and have not flown a supercarrier, but I've fought with/against and lost ships to supercarriers, so I feel that I have a bit of applicable experience. I would invite people who do have combat experience in supercarriers to please give constructive feedback, especially guys like PL and the large alliances that can field fleets of them. Just keep it constructive, we're all on the same side in this thread.

-I don't want to see a nerf of supercarriers. I think that they have a damned cool role, and with my proposed change to the siege module, it would place a unique role back in the hands of dreads beyond shooting just towers


The above disclaimers stated, the issue I'm identifying in this post is the following:
Due to the ability of supercarriers to more effectively do the job of dreadnoughts, as well as remove them from the field of battle efficiently with comparatively less risk to themselves, dreadnoughts have generally fallen into disuse except to destroy POS towers

I'm not trying to say this is the case ALL the time. Dreads are still used, I'm aware, but generally speaking if you have supercarriers available the Dreads aren't useful.

So why has this happened? Essentially it boils down to the supercarrier being able to do the job of a dread (again, excluding POS shooting) better and with less general risk (mostly due to EHP and spidertank potential) of death. Looking at capital warfare as a whole, I broke things down based on ship class about who has what "natural predators:"

Dreadnoughts: Other Dreads, Supercarriers, Titan (Doomsday can 1-shot a dread, but not a supercap)
Carriers: Dreads, Titans, Supercarriers
Titans: Dreads, Supercarriers (excluding Titans because yes, they can Doomsday, and fit capital guns, but they don't really do more damage than 1.5x sieged dreads and haven't proliferated to where you see 60 at once)
Supercarriers: Other Supercarriers

What's happened is the supercarrier has become an alpha predator. The only other natural predators of a supercarrier are other supercarriers. Too many EHP to be Doomsdayed like a carrier or dread, and at roughly 3x the dps of a sieged dread, they can mow through enemy dreads/carriers remarkably fast while spider tanking too.

Having dumped all that information out now, I would propose the following addition to the siege module:
-Point defense system: While activated, the dreadnought gains essentially a resistance to compact citadel torpedos ONLY (leaving the poor people who use Citadel Torps at least able to hit the same, damagewise). The resistance amount would be around whatever numbers would reduce incoming fighter bomber damage from one supercarrier down to roughly the dps of a single dread.

How would this fix capital warfare?
1) Dreadnoughts can now more easily weather being called primary by supercarriers. Additionally, this leaves the choice to either bring your own dreads to counter enemy dreads, who will do full damage, or bring in an equivalent number of supercarriers to apply more DPS, which is "theoretically" more difficult to do as dreads are cheaper. Dreads will still drop quicker due to their greatly lesser EHP, but they will stand a better chance of taking out supercarriers too.
2) Roles would look like this: Carrier/Supercarrier spidertank. SC breaks up the enemy spidertank. Dreads primary other dreads or they help break the enemy spidertank. Titans doomsday targets (carriers/dreads) of opportunity.
3) It only applies in siege mode, so the dread has to commit to gain such a powerful bonus vs SC.

I feel something simple is a good way to go for this issue and would like to welcome constructive discussion on it while avoiding talks of broad, heavy-handed nerfs.

Lord's Prophet
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
Posted - 2011.03.20 10:18:00 - [2]
 

All capital ships should have +5 extra high slots that can only fit small-size turrets, with +500% damage vs drones.

This would be an *actual* point defence implementation that would look hella cool and work ok too, even fighterbombers would fall pretty fast to this.

Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution
Posted - 2011.03.20 10:54:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Nemtar Nataal on 20/03/2011 11:13:43
Edited by: Nemtar Nataal on 20/03/2011 11:11:06
Originally by: Lord's Prophet
All capital ships should have +5 extra high slots that can only fit small-size turrets, with +500% damage vs drones.

This would be an *actual* point defence implementation that would look hella cool and work ok too, even fighterbombers would fall pretty fast to this.


I like the idea that dreads would have a specialized system to defend against drones, but it would take the dread ages to lock up the bombers thus bieng at a disadvantage when supercaps start to recall drones cause they are takeing damage.

The other idea of just giving it a special resistance vs. torps, is not really attacking the problem but just treating the symptoms.

I do however agree that the dread should be modified to work bether on the battlefield as it is today with the new supercarrier.

ExclamationEdit
CCP could introduce a anti drone class ship, im thinking a new destroyer class, there are 2 T2 variations of most other classes of ships, eccept for the destoryer maybe this is the time to introduce it.
And meybe introduce killmails for fighters and bombers, that might make for a bether insentive for people to shoot them.


 

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