open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Fix losec.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

Author Topic

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.03.19 23:16:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: adriaans
150k LP per lvl 5? WTF are you smoking? Shocked




/me shrugs. But I wish he'd share it.

yumike
Posted - 2011.03.20 00:54:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: yumike on 20/03/2011 00:58:17
First off, if your making less in null then level fours your either:

1.) In NPC null.
2.) Doing it horrificly wrong. HORRIFICLY.


Secondly, in regards to moving more people to lowsec- we agree.
It's a desert down there. Why? Because I mostly play in null & high, Low offers no benefit to me whatsoever but offers all the risk (more or less) of null.

The issue with low isn't that "level 4s are op" or some such nonsense.
It's that Shy of doing lowsec missions in T3's (Which is silly. Yes they can do it, But any properly fit T1 BS should be clearing them quicker and thus more cost effectively)
Saying "Just mission in lowsec in t3's" is like me telling you "just pvp in dominix's"

If you had half a clue why the level 5 mission nerf sucked, No one was complaining about the risk of pvp. The vast majority of qq I read was in regards to defending ourselves while we do that level 5.

Not only do we get neuted, scrammed, web'd, but we're in lowsec with a more or less heavily kitted out ship to mission specific resistances (with faction mods, T2 for the most part didn't allow you the room to do 5s comfortably) And we're supposed to have the means to defend ourself from a "awesome pirate -10 proski"

I lived in lowsec for two years ('05 and '06) I am quite familiar with it, The fact is the type of ships required to complete V's in lowsec are typically very expensive and look very good on my killboards meanwhile the level V's dont pay enough to be replacing them every ~5 missions.

The risk/reward is the issue here. The fact that i'll be capless, triple (or more) scrammed + webbed to crap, in my pve ship (rattle was most common for tanking V's) worth at least 1.4bil~ and your gonna come in alone or with a mate (more likely the latter) with your trash 4mil isk vexor and kill my rattle which cannot support a pvp viable fit while retaining the ability to tank the V's (Which can be upwards of 4k+ damage per second)

Alot of the V's have triggers for the neut/scram's which can and will break some of the best pve tanks - I can't recall the name of the mission i'm thinking of but there was one that you literally were there for ~40 minutes and had to kill the neut/scrams last else you would likely die.

You might think your a really bad ass pvp'er, but the fact is you had the fight handed to you. They had zero options.

I'm not saying the missions should be made easier, or that pirating should change in lowsec. They are both working as intended.
Infact I can't see a viable change at all, In all likeliness neither can CCP and that is why the system as it is right now.

Poster above me.. no one ever made 150k LP off a single V. even with max social the most I ever seen on my missioner was just under 80k. They were blowing smoke.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.03.20 00:55:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 20/03/2011 00:57:29
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 20/03/2011 00:56:21
Originally by: Ariz Black
Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
carebearland Eve.
If people leave over this, I won't miss them. They were trying to singleplayer in an MMO? This is not the kind of player EVE needs.


Well, dear, you may not miss them but CCP would miss them.And so we have level 4 agents in hisec.

After having spent the better part of a year in w-space I can say without reservation that l4 missions in hisec are not something that needs to be changed. It's rewards are mediocre on the scale of things.

Look, I understand what you're trying to do. But, I don't agree with it. You're attempting to force the adaptation of other people's game play to suit your own, i.e. torture defenseless creatures.

I do agree that losec needs a fix. Running helpless bunnies through killing machines is not it.

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.20 01:04:00 - [64]
 

Not that it is a 100% fix, my low sec suggestion is to make it the only place where rats give bounties. It doesn't solve much but it certainly gives it a unique reason to PVE there and increases the population somewhat.

It is not about getting more carebear targets into belts for pirates to chew on since carebears have no need to raise their sec levels.

If 0.0 is lawless, why do Concord offer bounties for killing rats there. High sec can just go to hell Wink

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.03.20 01:24:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: yumike

If you had half a clue why the level 5 mission nerf sucked, No one was complaining about the risk of pvp.


Counterpoint: everyone was complaining about the risk of PVP.

In regards to the rest of your post, many players do successfully run LV5s in lowsec. Their removal from highsec has made these players even richer via increased LP strength, and that is a good thing.

And to the thread in general: lowsec is fine. There's boatloads of isk to be made already, and players who prefer lowsec will naturally be limited, as most players in EVE would prefer either safety or territory, and lowsec by design offers neither.

Chopper Rollins
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:08:00 - [66]
 

OH HAI GUISE, it's this thread again.
Ratting low sec is kinda my other career. Don't bother with your idiotic isk/hr calculations, it's a kind of fun that can't be bought. Ratting is as boring as mining, except for the people trying to catch and kill you while you do it.

Whenever i see this thread i am compelled to suggest the same thing every time: buy/make/acquire tons of hi meta/t2/desirable objects and sell them at a station many jumps from either hi or null. Price items carefully so it's not worth buying em all and running, but still worth travelling and purchasing. Create a de facto market hub that will DRAW targets into your dinner bowl.

DON'T ask CCP to PUSH players to you.
SPEND the isk and MAKE what you want to happen, HAPPEN.

Or you could, y'know, STFU.


High energy Purification
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:15:00 - [67]
 


Low-sec should attract people as a place for small-gang PvP. So any rewards should be based around PvP. So why does the discussion always focus on PvE?

Have a low-sec that is NPC controlled but they'll give "protection" contracts to player corporations. That corporation gets a cut from PvE / Mining / PvP kills in that space. Bears can bear (cautiously), small groups can claim space (without needing a super-cap fleet) and PvP people can decide whether they want to defend their own territory or trash someone elses. Could easily be tied into a faction warfar system if they wanted to fix that.

But the real answer, since you can't bang a clue into CCP's head even with a club is a simple sentence,

"CCP, make low-sec more fun"

nugget906
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:34:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
Originally by: adriaans
150k LP per lvl 5? WTF are you smoking? Shocked




/me shrugs. But I wish he'd share it.


There was a 0.1 sec Ammatar agent that pays close to that, might reach it if I had higher social skills. None of the caldari agents near highsec that ppl used pull highsec missions from pay nearly that much, 80k tops.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:41:00 - [69]
 

Fixing losec is a bad idea.
You'll only get sued by AstraZeneca.

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.20 04:57:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Myelinated
Originally by: Admiral Sarah Solette
Edited by: Admiral Sarah Solette on 19/03/2011 21:25:41
Originally by: Myelinated

Maybe you shouldn't generalize that all mission ships can't be made unprobable like a smacktard then. Hmm?


You created a new word just for me? I'm touched, really.
That's one ship class that could successfully run a level 4 without being scanned down. Pull your head out of your ass ****tard, and think about the proposal a little more. k?

Here, I'll fix it since you can't wrap your puny brain around the concept: It would render the majority of level 4 missioning ships useless. Better now? Can you understand a basic concept now?


Carriers, Mauraders and battleships are still being used to rat, plex and mission in nullsec, so they wouldn't be rendered useless. Scanning down mission runners isn't instant and you can easily evade being warped in on if you pay attention.

But for somone like you who is bad at eve it is too much to ask.


Hey, Alliance idiot, just how many people do you think running level 4's in high-sec could actually afford marauders, carriers etc? And be able to afford losing them in lowsec to wannabe pvp'ers? I would say not many, and of those that CAN afford them, its because they were able to build up their funds running level 4's IN HIGH SEC.

To the OP, if you take level 4 missions away from high sec, you'll see even less people down in lowsec and you'll have a lot less pew pew to do. Oh and if you can't earn as much doing low sec ratting/anoms as I can in my level 4 missions, then you are doing something very, very wrong.


yumike
Posted - 2011.03.20 06:14:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: yumike

If you had half a clue why the level 5 mission nerf sucked, No one was complaining about the risk of pvp.


Counterpoint: everyone was complaining about the risk of PVP.

In regards to the rest of your post, many players do successfully run LV5s in lowsec. Their removal from highsec has made these players even richer via increased LP strength, and that is a good thing.

And to the thread in general: lowsec is fine. There's boatloads of isk to be made already, and players who prefer lowsec will naturally be limited, as most players in EVE would prefer either safety or territory, and lowsec by design offers neither.


I'm not sure who everyone is because even if you were running them pre-nerf you still had to do the odd one in lowsec or else facing a 4hour timer.

Yes, I see a few groups that still say they run level 5's, but i'm yet to find an actual group running them. Even with 4k~ dps on the field it was taking me 40 minutes on the field to clear them. It's hardly feasible currently. I encourage you and would welcome some proof beyond one guy who still thinks its worthwhile (or is nefariously lucky.. because that could go either or.)

Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.03.20 09:33:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Frau Klaps
Not that it is a 100% fix, my low sec suggestion is to make it the only place where rats give bounties. It doesn't solve much but it certainly gives it a unique reason to PVE there and increases the population somewhat.

It is not about getting more carebear targets into belts for pirates to chew on since carebears have no need to raise their sec levels.

If 0.0 is lawless, why do Concord offer bounties for killing rats there. High sec can just go to hell Wink


What a thoroughly dumb idea. For a start, there are bounties on little baby rats in high sec space for the newer players to cut their teeth on should they choose to do so. As for null-sec pirates having bounties, a criminal is still a criminal even if they go and hide round the corner from the cops, so why wouldn't Concord have bounties for them?

It is abudantly clear what all of these threads are about and that is that low-sec piwats want more targets. Which is why, in answer to someone elses question, nearly all these "boost low sec" threads contain numerous ideas centering around moving missions or changing high sec loot drops. You never see anyone making serious well thought out plans for bringing people out of null sec do you? No, its always high sec "Carebears" that these people want to see more of.

I wonder why that might be? Possibly something to do with the fact that the majority of low sec dwellers are small groups of poorly trained, undisciplined idiots whose sole aim is to be crowned King/Queen douche. High sec mission runners would be perfect targets for these piwats, untrained in PvP as most of them are, and flying faction fit ships that make the little piwats simultaneously wet themselves with envy and drool at the idea of getting the loot.

Perhaps if these piwats are actually serious about wanting improved conditions, they might try setting up in one of the smaller null sec systems. Plenty of PvP could be had from whichever alliance owns the nearby space, rats with their bounties would not be far away as well as anoms and even level 5 missions. Faction loot galore, all the minerals they would need to build ships and more PvP than they could shake a stick at. Oh wait, I forgot, that would put them on the wrong end of the fight. They want to be able to omgwtfpwn everything in sight, not get pwnd themselves. Afterall who wants anything even resembling a challenge or fair fight eh? Thats why they live in low sec and not in null and thats why low sec is so crap, too many chiefs as it were.

Memorya
Posted - 2011.03.20 09:37:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Ariz Black
Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down.
Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland.


Do you even understand what you wrote ?


Doing this woud mean death of EVE Online. PVP'er are minority and not majority in Eve.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.03.20 09:38:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Horizonist on 20/03/2011 09:42:26

Originally by: Xavier Isaacson

It is abudantly clear what all of these threads are about and that is that low-sec piwats want more targets. Which is why, in answer to someone elses question, nearly all these "boost low sec" threads contain numerous ideas centering around moving missions or changing high sec loot drops. You never see anyone making serious well thought out plans for bringing people out of null sec do you? No, its always high sec "Carebears" that these people want to see more of.


This, a hundred times over.

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.20 10:25:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Memorya
Originally by: Ariz Black
Remove level 4 agents from highsec. Levels 4 and 5 should be only 0.4 and down.
Oh look, suddenly lots of people have a reason to leave carebearland.


Do you even understand what you wrote ?


Doing this woud mean death of EVE Online. PVP'er are minority and not majority in Eve.


Not that I am agreeing with the silly twit you quoted there, but you are incorrect. I would suggest that pure PVP'ers and pure PVE'ers are equal in number and together make up a very small percentage of the total EVE population. The majority of the populace is most likely made up of people who engage in both activities.

I point to the relative long term stability of the market, especially post npc-manufacturing, and increasing unique subscriber numbers as proof that neither pure pvp'ers nor pure pve'ers are dominant. If pure pvp'ers dominated we would have seen an all out conflict break out followed swiftly by falling sub numbers and then EVE's demise. Conversly, if pure pve'ers dominated we would see massive market upheavals followed by player numbers falling drastically to a much lower level and again, the death of the game. Since player numbers are increasing, an EVE wide war hasn't broken out and the market is as stable as ever, it is clear that the game world is well balanced and stable.

A Status Quo has established itself quite nicely Smile

The Old Chap
Posted - 2011.03.20 10:39:00 - [76]
 

"Lo-sec is a wasteland..."

I'm OK with that.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.20 11:57:00 - [77]
 

I HAD AN EPIPHANY! GOD HERSELF CAME DOWN FROM HEAVENS AND SAID TO ME:

What if lowsec mission NPCs demanded a thorough PvP fit to be defeated?

I mean, like if missions had only ONE rat, but that rat was like a T2 fit for PvP so the mission runner would need a Marauder's DPS and tank to kill it soon enough. PLUS, the rat would fire first at anyone not belonging to the mission (in case a ninja could locate the misison runner soon enough). Think of missions having targets like NPC BS with 4,000 alpha, PvP fit & a worthy bounty (say, 20 million).

That kind of NPC mission target would create its own kind of mission runner -one used to deal with PvP NPCs with her PvP fit, and a steady income from hisec PvE-fit missions.

So mission runners no longer would be hapless bunnies with a 2 billion "shoot me" bullseye, but seasoned wolves with 2 billion PvP pwnmachines AND a income source to build & replace them...

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:03:00 - [78]
 

CCP should just add some escalation system to the current mission system, just like the escalations when doing plexs. The escalation would eg. be 3 steps all of them in low sec, where the first two would be completed in BC class ships, and the last step may be doable with BC but a lot harder making it more tempting to use a battleship. The rewards should be alot higher then normal level 4 missions, and the final step could eg. have a change of faction loot.

CCP should also do something about the fairness of pve vs. pvp fights, if you get jumped by an enemy player while doing pve content you not only have to fight the player but also all the rats. When webbed the damage from the rats are most of the time enough to kill you, add to that a player that is draining you cap and adding a lot of extra damage.

If all rats had 50/50 change of changing target when someone warps in, at least the pve players would have the chance that some ewar rats would target the enemy player, and with some with lucky target jamming that maybe would be enough to get away.

I'm sure CCP could make some small changes that would up the survival rate of pve players in low sec, i think the feeling of always losing unfair fights is keep players ways from low sec just as much as the fear of losing onces ship.

Aoa Lux
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.03.20 12:23:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Ariz Black
You can do level 4 easily enough in an unscannable ship anyway but at least it adds some danger in getting attacked at the station...


Oh god why would ANYONE support an increase of station humpery Neutral

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.20 13:07:00 - [80]
 


Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.03.20 13:20:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
I HAD AN EPIPHANY! GOD HERSELF CAME DOWN FROM HEAVENS AND SAID TO ME:

What if lowsec mission NPCs demanded a thorough PvP fit to be defeated?

I mean, like if missions had only ONE rat, but that rat was like a T2 fit for PvP so the mission runner would need a Marauder's DPS and tank to kill it soon enough. PLUS, the rat would fire first at anyone not belonging to the mission (in case a ninja could locate the misison runner soon enough). Think of missions having targets like NPC BS with 4,000 alpha, PvP fit & a worthy bounty (say, 20 million).

That kind of NPC mission target would create its own kind of mission runner -one used to deal with PvP NPCs with her PvP fit, and a steady income from hisec PvE-fit missions.

So mission runners no longer would be hapless bunnies with a 2 billion "shoot me" bullseye, but seasoned wolves with 2 billion PvP pwnmachines AND a income source to build & replace them...
and we shall name those missions "Incursions"!

Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Max G Storage and Logistics
Posted - 2011.03.20 13:41:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 20/03/2011 13:42:10
Easiest fix for low sec. Get ride of it!

It doesn't work as it stands. No easy targets for player pirates to gank and that is their argument not others. If you want small scale PvP then use Corp War mechansms. Oh but that means no game mechanics to hide behind, and too many 'innocent' looking Industrial Corps know how to PvP when they have too

Honest, that is about the best way to deal with it. Split current low sec systems between becoming high sec systems and nul sec systems. That then gives more to the two largest player groups at the expence of the smallest

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.03.20 16:22:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Arnakoz on 20/03/2011 16:47:12
no way on the moving missions bit..... just wouldn't work. wouldn't accomplish more activity in lowsec and would make missioning near pointless.

what i think the solution would be is higher returns for the same activities as compared to both high and null. better rat bounties, much higher returns on the same level of missions (xcept i think null should be higher here - NPC null is very dangerous and lucrative), more anoms and plex's. ... maybe even some form of play/isk-making that doesn't exist elsewhere. make it so that faction standings can be gained faster via rats or the local "npc police" or something thereabouts.

further, make it so the balance between null and lowsec is a matter of alliance vs individual. moons, stations, cap production, JB's, etc make null attractive for alliances while higher returns for individual activities make lowsec more attractive for, well, individuals.

Xuthi
Minmatar
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2011.03.20 16:30:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Xuthi on 20/03/2011 16:46:51
Fixing the probing system might help get people into low sec doing missions etc.

As it stands at the moment it is way to easy/ quick to probe down people and is much to skewed in the pirates favor.

Quote:
I'm sure CCP could make some small changes that would up the survival rate of pve players in low sec, i think the feeling of always losing unfair fights is keep players ways from low sec just as much as the fear of losing onces ship


Theres plenty of things you can do yourself to up your survival rate. I dont mean this to sound bad to you or w/e but as an example, I found you in your mission 2 days ago and i travelled 60km across your mission in an AB frig fitted with a scram. you did not even attempt to warp off in that time. If your going to do mission in low sec then paying attention is one thing you can do which would boost your survival rate massively. Again, that wasnt ment as a dig at you or anything along those lines, I was merely pointing out that there are quite a number of things that you as a player can do to maximise your survival in low sec, that does not require CCP to make changes. That aside, I do think it is too easy for pirates to gank pvers in low sec, and I think specifically the probing system needs to be looked at like I mentioned earlier.



Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.03.20 16:31:00 - [85]
 

Low sec needs some tweaks but I don't agree Level 4 agents should me moved to 0.4 - 0.1. There need to be industries which are related to low sec space IMHO, more support for booster production, along with maybe low sec stations providing a small bonus to research and production over high-sec to make it more attractive (due to black market availability, and corner cutting in R&D aka no Heath and Safe). I'd like to obviously see CCP look at Faction Warfare, it needs some tweaks. Give pirates and Militia more active role in their chosen career, and more meaningful links to the lore of the game, and the impact that should bring. The last thing I want to see is millions of people moving to low sec, I don't want it to end up like high-sec or null-sec thanks.

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2011.03.20 16:37:00 - [86]
 

It's still fine. Just go elsewhere if you don't like it.

TharOkha
Posted - 2011.03.21 17:13:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Ariz Black
....waaaah, remove L4 from highsec....

Another PvP carebear complaining. If you "somehow", cannot earn more isk in null than hisec l4, you probably doing something terribly wrong Rolling Eyes.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.21 17:55:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Ariz Black
You're all missing the point.
It's not about increasing the number of targets in losec.
It's about removing the high income at no risk that level 4 hisec missions give.
If you want that kind of income there should be an associated risk, and there isn't. Noone suicide ganks t1 battleships with t2 fittings anyway.


You don't need to touch missions to make a heck of a lot more than that in high sec just with trading alone. Moving level 4 missions to high sec would simply remove some variety from my game. It's fun to fly battleships in missions, but I sure as heck would not put my mission running ship on the line in lowsec. If I had to fly the missions in some piece of crap T1 junk, I wouldn't bother in the first place, at this point.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:01:00 - [89]
 

i am contributing to my corp with tax funds when i do missions. it is not single player!

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.03.21 18:08:00 - [90]
 

All you need to do to get more people into low-sec is push Concord's influence in there right down to > 0.0 space.

Add Concord, add people. Simple fact. Of course, this doesn't make the super-leet ninjamachopirates of low-sec happy, but they'll have more targets.


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only