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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:36:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Crumplecorn on 21/03/2011 14:37:07
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: GIGAR
I haven't seen a single thing come from the CSM, which people wasn't asking for BEFORE the CSM.


You are absolutely right about this.

Even the vaunted skill queue, (which still isn't what we want, it needs to run much longer) which is the pride of CCP in pointing out CSM influence, had been suggested on these forums practically every day that I observed since I began playing in 9/2007. It was NOT a CSM idea.
I think you missed the post above which explains why this is a ******ed thing to say.


Originally by: Jack Gilligan
CCP, show me proof that our CSM "stakeholders" can stop you from doing, well, anything at all? If our elected are stakeholders, can they stop you from proceeding on "Barbie in Space" and instead fix the problems with the systems you have introduced in the last 2 years? If they can't, they aren't stakeholders of any kind, they are PLACEHOLDERS in your PR department, designed to give us the illusion of influence.
PROTIP: CSM are not there to push the game in the direction Jack Gilligan wants.

Regat Kozovv
Caldari
Alcothology
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:55:00 - [32]
 

I have mixed feelings about the CSM.

I have no doubt that CCP gets good feedback from the CSM membership. It's certainly better to be able to talk to people face to face in a more formal, civil environment than wading through the forums.

Unfortunately, I feel it's merits are trumped up in comparison to the CSM's limitations.

The CSM's membership comes from the most forum active, experienced players in EVE. They do not represent a broad cross-section of the game (though they do their best). The feedback may be good, but I feel often represents a narrow focus. The CSM is interested in fixing or tweaking the existing gameplay, and not often in new features of gameplay styles that would bring in new and different classes of players.

This is where it leads to conflict with CCP. In order for the game to grow, CCP must attract a larger, broader base. To do so means introducing new features and new styles of play. Many of these are unappealing to EVE's "hardcore" and are likewise looked upon as a drain on resources.

Herein lies the crux of the issue. The CSM is, and will be, committed to improving and focusing on what already exists, while CCP knows it must focus on the new in order to grow. They have two wildly different goals, and yet somehow it is construed that the CSM has an enormous impact on the game. It doesn't.

That is not a bad thing in my opinion. It is ultimately CCP's responsibility for making the game a success, and there will be many more risks for them going forward in order to push EVE forward. But I do think it is a bit disingenuous to indicate that the CSM is an influential body when it's motivations and ability to affect change are extremely limited.

Driggrin
Posted - 2011.03.21 23:15:00 - [33]
 

Vote - Or the rifter gets it!

Made me lol so hard.

Also, CSM is coming into it's own, the current iteration seems to have put in some good work.
Not every day you get to say that abotu quasi-politicians, is it...

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.03.22 10:55:00 - [34]
 

CCP Employees required to tow the company line despite the reality behind why the CSM came into being?

What a surprise.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.22 16:50:00 - [35]
 

What 'stakeholder' means, as some people are getting confused.
The programming teams are stakeholders, the design teams are stakeholders, the art teams are stakeholders, and the CSM are stakeholders - there will be others, but these are obvious.

Do you think the programming team gets to say "Nah, I don't like Incarna and Hilmar can go to hell"? The other 'stakeholders'?
The CSM gets an officially recognised voice, which can be listened to, or ignored - just like every other stakeholder except (I presume) management.

That the CSM is ignored more often than the other stakeholders is ... probable ... but they are working on that, and the more players who vote, and who actively support the CSM, the more of a voice they have because the better the candidates seem to represent *us*. They've been gaining voice, as they've been gaining votes, and as they've been communicating better with CCP.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.03.24 07:17:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Shandir
That the CSM is ignored more often than the other stakeholders is ... probable ... but they are working on that, and the more players who vote, and who actively support the CSM, the more of a voice they have because the better the candidates seem to represent *us*. They've been gaining voice, as they've been gaining votes, and as they've been communicating better with CCP.


That's pretty optimistic and actually I think there's no basis to believe that at all.

If they can ignore the CSM now, they can ignore it when 10% more people vote.
If the turnout has anything to say about how seriously CCP takes the CSM they should disband it right now and here.
Projected disregard ("we choose to ignore you because other people didn't do what we expected them to do") is not something you can fix, neither short-term nor long-term.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.03.28 13:23:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Swynet on 31/03/2011 15:33:04
Originally by: Eldaec
Dear CCP,

Fyi, 'Community Managers', 'Directors of PR', 'Executive Producers' and similar are not 'Developers'.




This [stuff]

So you can always write nice blogs about the issues your "PR directors/managers" aloud you to work on, but players waiting for answers to their IG issues during now for years can't take those blogs seriously.

Quoting the best thing I've read in this thread:

Quote:
All you really said was Lalala

Skaarl
Posted - 2011.03.29 01:33:00 - [38]
 

they obviously dont think much of them as they ignore essentially everything brought up by them.


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