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Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 13:58:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 14:01:57
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 13:59:46
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 18/03/2011 13:34:52
Originally by: Mashie Saldana

No, we still want real loss, just under the same controlled form as the Alliance Tourney.

Looks like what you want is for the game to hold your hand. You want the action but without most of the effort/consequences. That's not EVE (at least not currently; things may change post barbie expansion).


Seems to me you're not talking about ingame consequences, because I'm pretty sure I've established I want ship loss to be part of this. So clearly, you're a part of the "I lost 4 hours of my life roaming around looking for a good fight until finally getting hopelessly blobbed to death" camp? Because that's about the only consequences I can think of.

I want a game, to realize its a game and to start facilitating fun instead of hours of tedium punctuated by a couple minutes/seconds of excitement. But I suppose that means that I don't belong in eve right?

you're right though, I'm tired of roaming for hours looking for fights. I don't have the time, patience, or will to sit at the computer every day jumping around random low sec systems looking for someone like me doing the same thing.


Originally by: Fkn Arson
What ships can I bring into the proposed arena?

If there are limits to those ships, why?

What modules can I fit to my ships.

If there are limits to those modules, why?

What enhancements for pvp can I bring to the fight? (drugs, implants, etc...)

If there are limits to those enhancements, why?

What kind of system will be in place for this arena to be ranked, if any?

If there is a ranking/point system in place for this arena, what will CCP do to stop me from bringing in ALT's to "fight"?

Will CCP take suggestions from Arena PVP'ers about changing mechanics of certain ships and modules BECAUSE they are unbalanced in the arena? (This is a BIG ONE, I played WoW all the way up till Burning Crusade, right when Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch came out, suddenly it mattered more how my class did in the instances than in World PVP)

Will others be able to interfere with an Arena fight, if not, why?

If Arena PVP is implemented, will podding be allowed? If not, why?

In strong reference to an above question, if 10 Falcons are the end-all-be-all of the Arena PVP, will Falcons become nerfed because of Arena PVP? (Replace falcons with whatever ship you want)

I'd have more questions, though these are some that came to mind off-hand.




Alliance tournament... We already have the "rules" in place.

Originally by: Tasha Baxter
Edited by: Tasha Baxter on 18/03/2011 13:55:42
"Why should I risk going into low/null-sec when I can just fight in areas and not have to worry about unpredictable circumstances?" etc etc.

Plus this would be all a bit too WoW for me.


Yes... why risk my ship in null/lowsec when I can bring it to an arena... You know where its guaranteed to get shot at and where there's still a 50/50 chance I will lose?

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:03:00 - [62]
 

I'm confused, are you proposing anybody anywhere can initiate arena pvp? Whats to stop people from using arena pvp to hide from random pvp? Say two groups are trapped in a system by a larger group, couldnt they just initiate arena pvp and be effectively safe from the larger group?

Tasha Baxter
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:04:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
I'm confused, are you proposing anybody anywhere can initiate arena pvp? Whats to stop people from using arena pvp to hide from random pvp? Say two groups are trapped in a system by a larger group, couldnt they just initiate arena pvp and be effectively safe from the larger group?


This sounds particularly horrifying.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:04:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 14:06:58
Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
I'm confused, are you proposing anybody anywhere can initiate arena pvp? Whats to stop people from using arena pvp to hide from random pvp? Say two groups are trapped in a system by a larger group, couldnt they just initiate arena pvp and be effectively safe from the larger group?


Where the **** are you people getting this random **** from? Where did I even come CLOSE to saying something like this?

*EDIT*

You know, I thought the Eve player base was supposed to have above average intelligence? I think that its pretty clear that an Arena system would have to be initiated from a STATION, your opponents would be RANDOM, and after you were done you and your ship (ASSUMING YOU WEREN'T BLOWN THE **** UP) would be returned back to the SAME STATION YOU STARTED FROM.

Fkn Arson
0ne Percent.
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:18:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane

Alliance tournament... We already have the "rules" in place.



You didn't answer the big question, I'll go ahead and ask you another one though, why are there limits in place for something you are proposing to have throughout eve, and not on one (or two, is it two now?) week of the year? If this is instanced pvp, I'll sadly unsub, if it is PVP with rules but can be affected by outsiders, I'll be fine with it.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:27:00 - [66]
 

I didn't really have an opinion before this thread but the more i think about it the more i warm to the idea. I think it would be especially useful for new players. Best way to learn the mechanics (and fun) of pvp - in an arena vs equal numbers of similarly low sp players limited to (insured) t1 frigs/cruisers and t1 mods. There are not really any downsides asuming it was implemented properly. Of course loss should still mean something otherwise its just plain not eve, any system with "fake" deaths would get a veto from me. There are alot of upsides however;

Server performance: CCP clearly gets to decide where to put said arenas so they can put them in light load systems thereby relieveing load on overfilled systems. So in empty high sec systems with no stations etc. Also many of the people who spam cans and fight on the undock of places like amarr would obviously go for arens so reducing load in these systems.

New player experience: The number one area not covered in the npe is pvp, so having some arenas limited to sp and/or char age would help with that. Especially if experienced players (either volunteers or groups who already help new players like eve uni) help with training + fcing.

Variety: More players will obviously be willing to give pvp a go when they are not going to get blobbed or overwhelmed by t3s on their first try. Some of these will like it and go on to pvp proper. Even those who don't like it will understand it better and be more willing to jump in some t1 cruisers when they get war-decced instead of hiding in station.

Revenue: Some players may very well create/train new characters specifically for arenas. Others will need to fund their new pvp habit through plex. Both = more rl isk for ccp.

Incarna: Bet isk on the outcome of combat from the comfort of your "captains cabin".

Organized tournaments: Quite aside from one off fights in the arenas, it would be easy enough to organize tournaments with entry fees + prize purses. We could finally have a corporation tournament to run alongside the alliance tourney. Also running the alliance tourney itself would be alot easier with arenas in game.

Economy: - more pvp = more ship death = more economic activity. It is obviously a mineral sink and likely a isk sink as well (as people will insure ships then get them killed). High end arens could have nominal entry fees and tournament fees could be taxed to create further isk sinks. Also new trade hubs would form to replace losses in the arenas.

Interaction: to get the most of arenas you will clearly need to form fleets. From fleets grow corps. More interaction = a good thing in any MMO.

To acheive this you would need arenas with all sorts of different limits - SP, char age, ship types, ship techs, mod types, meta levels of mods, fleet size. Once you have the basic arena mechanic - 2 fleets warped to a concordless deadspace essentially - it is easy to script these things in, ccp already monitors fleet size in incursions and there have always been ship limits on gates.

Gravemind GER
Caldari
Fnord Works
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:27:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Why does everyone get so hyped for Alliance Tournaments, yet half of you start raging at the idea of CCP implementing Arena pvp (that we have to field our own ships in)?


you dont understand... we are all trying to cam***** and see alliance tournament ships from the last AT blown up.

Linkage

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:33:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Fkn Arson
Originally by: Sader Rykane

Alliance tournament... We already have the "rules" in place.



You didn't answer the big question, I'll go ahead and ask you another one though, why are there limits in place for something you are proposing to have throughout eve, and not on one (or two, is it two now?) week of the year? If this is instanced pvp, I'll sadly unsub, if it is PVP with rules but can be affected by outsiders, I'll be fine with it.


Would the World Cup be worth watching if people on the stands could walk on the field and kick the ball around?

Temper
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:38:00 - [69]
 

I like the idea of having a station/system/place possibly one per faction that people can go to pvp 1v1 or blob vs blob or 1 vs blob. I would love to place some bets on who would win, do some gambling. Even set some odds.

Nothing in EvE should be free. This would have to cost and risk your own ships and cost to start. I would love to see this be a venue for random fights, but definately a place to pick your opponent.

I would envision something like the trade window where you drag in your ship and mods, if both agree then pay your fee and fight. With some box to allow for outside betting, and setting of odds or even a timer to wait till betting is done. If outside betting is set then the public and view trade window. Ships undock and fly to a gate only for them.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:55:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 14:01:57
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 13:59:46
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 18/03/2011 13:34:52
Looks like what you want is for the game to hold your hand. You want the action but without most of the effort/consequences. That's not EVE (at least not currently; things may change post barbie expansion).


Seems to me you're not talking about ingame consequences, because I'm pretty sure I've established I want ship loss to be part of this. So clearly, you're a part of the "I lost 4 hours of my life roaming around looking for a good fight until finally getting hopelessly blobbed to death" camp? Because that's about the only consequences I can think of.

The effort and consequences I was referring to were the ones incurred in organizing and running of such events within the current EVE game mechanics. It surely is possible, but you’d have to have an organization, you’d have to deal with real people, and you’d have to deal with unavoidable attempts by those real people at ruining your work.

What you seem to be advocating is some kind of an instant gratification game mechanic more in line with FPS-match type games, where you can just pop in, do some shooting, and then leave and forget about it. There is nothing wrong with that, however it is not EVE.

The endless roaming looking for fights is a problem with a different solution (and not a single one). It has more to do with things like the Local and d-scan mechanics on one hand, and with your roaming destinations on the other.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:57:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Fkn Arson
Originally by: Sader Rykane

Alliance tournament... We already have the "rules" in place.



You didn't answer the big question, I'll go ahead and ask you another one though, why are there limits in place for something you are proposing to have throughout eve, and not on one (or two, is it two now?) week of the year? If this is instanced pvp, I'll sadly unsub, if it is PVP with rules but can be affected by outsiders, I'll be fine with it.


Would the World Cup be worth watching if people on the stands could walk on the field and kick the ball around?


Normal arenas should be interferebale with, just following the normal rules of deadspace/hi sec. You can scan it down, you can use the gate if your fleet meets the requirements, if you have kill-rights or a war-dec you can pew pew, otherwise you are trying to suicide gank.

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.03.18 14:59:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Roosterton
I never said that. I just said arena PVP becomes a lot of player's first choice, hence making it harder to find world PVP. Won't necessarily be the majority, but world PVP doesn't need to be made more scarce.

So... wait a second... wasn't some argument not just a short while ago that people generally WOULDN'T WANT to bother with arena PvP ?
Also, people that are just interested in moderately fair roaming pewpew should be just as happy with arena PvP, since it concentrates the instances in which they DO find that fight into a single easy to swallow package, so who gives a rat's ass if less people freeroam ? It's not as if you have much of a chance to find a fair fight freeroaming either, even that has been mostly blobbified.
Besides, resource-oriented PvP should remain largely unaffected... those looking to conquer/defend a valuable moon or something like that sure as hell won't be stopping on account of arena PvP existing.


It wasn't my argument. I'm guessing the people saying "lol noone would do this stfu" are trolls.

But I sure as hell won't be satisfied with arena PVP. As has been said earlier in this thread, the risk and effort required to find a fight can almost be as fun and brain-racking as the fight itself. But there are always going to be the lazy people who want an instant, guaranteed fair fight.

As for freeroaming being blobbified, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I regularly send BC's or frigates to their deaths in nullsec. Most fights wind up with both sides taking a loss, but it's pretty fun. Not once in the past few months have I been hotdropped or blobbed unrealistically. But if the people who I'm finding fights against start resorting to arena PVP, that may well change.

I agree on your last point, 900v900 man fights won't change at all, because they find arenas petty and useless for not forwarding their nullsec agenda. But I, as a solo/small gang player, am not going to be satisfied sitting in an arena all day, getting spoon-fed fair fights.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:01:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Fkn Arson
Originally by: Sader Rykane

Alliance tournament... We already have the "rules" in place.



You didn't answer the big question, I'll go ahead and ask you another one though, why are there limits in place for something you are proposing to have throughout eve, and not on one (or two, is it two now?) week of the year? If this is instanced pvp, I'll sadly unsub, if it is PVP with rules but can be affected by outsiders, I'll be fine with it.


Would the World Cup be worth watching if people on the stands could walk on the field and kick the ball around?


Normal arenas should be interferebale with, just following the normal rules of deadspace/hi sec. You can scan it down, you can use the gate if your fleet meets the requirements, if you have kill-rights or a war-dec you can pew pew, otherwise you are trying to suicide gank.


Just like the alliance tournament right? Remember when that merc corp totally scanned down and hot-dropped everyone during the finals? Wasn't it awesome?

I'm not quite sure why you don't understand why this would completely defeat the purpose of a competitive arena.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:02:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 14:01:57
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 13:59:46
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 18/03/2011 13:34:52
Looks like what you want is for the game to hold your hand. You want the action but without most of the effort/consequences. That's not EVE (at least not currently; things may change post barbie expansion).


Seems to me you're not talking about ingame consequences, because I'm pretty sure I've established I want ship loss to be part of this. So clearly, you're a part of the "I lost 4 hours of my life roaming around looking for a good fight until finally getting hopelessly blobbed to death" camp? Because that's about the only consequences I can think of.

The effort and consequences I was referring to were the ones incurred in organizing and running of such events within the current EVE game mechanics. It surely is possible, but you’d have to have an organization, you’d have to deal with real people, and you’d have to deal with unavoidable attempts by those real people at ruining your work.

What you seem to be advocating is some kind of an instant gratification game mechanic more in line with FPS-match type games, where you can just pop in, do some shooting, and then leave and forget about it. There is nothing wrong with that, however it is not EVE.

The endless roaming looking for fights is a problem with a different solution (and not a single one). It has more to do with things like the Local and d-scan mechanics on one hand, and with your roaming destinations on the other.



It is eve just as much as a gate camp or titan hot-drop. Also its not possible to run on tq atm, there are no mechanics to prevent that 5 man t1 gang bringing their 50 t3 freinds to gank the 5 man t1 gang they agreed to fight. Expecting people to embrace pvp when all they experience is blobs and ganks is naive.

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:05:00 - [75]
 

Just going to add something in here... If you want instant gratification with mostly fair PVP, there's always RVB. I never thought I'd be praising it, but it's a better alternative than arenas. Rolling Eyes

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:09:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Roosterton
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Roosterton
I never said that. I just said arena PVP becomes a lot of player's first choice, hence making it harder to find world PVP. Won't necessarily be the majority, but world PVP doesn't need to be made more scarce.

So... wait a second... wasn't some argument not just a short while ago that people generally WOULDN'T WANT to bother with arena PvP ?
Also, people that are just interested in moderately fair roaming pewpew should be just as happy with arena PvP, since it concentrates the instances in which they DO find that fight into a single easy to swallow package, so who gives a rat's ass if less people freeroam ? It's not as if you have much of a chance to find a fair fight freeroaming either, even that has been mostly blobbified.
Besides, resource-oriented PvP should remain largely unaffected... those looking to conquer/defend a valuable moon or something like that sure as hell won't be stopping on account of arena PvP existing.


It wasn't my argument. I'm guessing the people saying "lol noone would do this stfu" are trolls.

But I sure as hell won't be satisfied with arena PVP. As has been said earlier in this thread, the risk and effort required to find a fight can almost be as fun and brain-racking as the fight itself. But there are always going to be the lazy people who want an instant, guaranteed fair fight.

As for freeroaming being blobbified, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. I regularly send BC's or frigates to their deaths in nullsec. Most fights wind up with both sides taking a loss, but it's pretty fun. Not once in the past few months have I been hotdropped or blobbed unrealistically. But if the people who I'm finding fights against start resorting to arena PVP, that may well change.

I agree on your last point, 900v900 man fights won't change at all, because they find arenas petty and useless for not forwarding their nullsec agenda. But I, as a solo/small gang player, am not going to be satisfied sitting in an arena all day, getting spoon-fed fair fights.


So you are against fair fights or something? You do realize that fair fights would allow you to really show your skill as a pilot right? I mean when all things are equal, generally speaking its the better (or I suppose luckier) player that will generally win. For me its less about the hotdrop / blobbing and more about the mind numbing hours of jumping through gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate....oh look someones in local... oh nvm theres station, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after LOCAL SPIKE!, alright they're just passing through, after gate, after gate... **** I've been at this for 3 hours? Alright time to dock up and head to bed.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but in nearly all cases when I roam solo, this is pretty much how it goes.

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:11:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Roosterton on 18/03/2011 15:11:51
Quote:

So you are against fair fights or something? You do realize that fair fights would allow you to really show your skill as a pilot right? I mean when all things are equal, generally speaking its the better (or I suppose luckier) player that will generally win. For me its less about the hotdrop / blobbing and more about the mind numbing hours of jumping through gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate....oh look someones in local... oh nvm theres station, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after LOCAL SPIKE!, alright they're just passing through, after gate, after gate... **** I've been at this for 3 hours? Alright time to dock up and head to bed.



I'm not so much against fair fights, as I am against people putting in basically no effort to instantly get a guaranteed fair fight.

"Showing your skill as a pilot," imo, has less to do with your actual piloting skill, as it does with choosing your fights, weighing the chances, being careful (or brave, depending) and then going for it.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:11:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane


Just like the alliance tournament right? Remember when that merc corp totally scanned down and hot-dropped everyone during the finals? Wasn't it awesome?

I'm not quite sure why you don't understand why this would completely defeat the purpose of a competitive arena.


In 'official' one off tournaments with prizes fees et all ccp (concord) can lock the gates, in normal every day arenas being in an area shouldn't afford people any additional protection from the limited dangers of high sec. If you have an active war-dec or kill-rights you have to live with the consequences. Being in a deadspace only accessible by probing and to limited enemy ships is enough. If suicide ganking is a worry then you should realise they could easily have been ganked before they got to the arena .... If someone is willing to go to the bother of probing + suiciding 10 bs to kill your 1 bs in an essentially meaningless fight with no real consequences more power to them.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:12:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Doddy

It is eve just as much as a gate camp or titan hot-drop. Also its not possible to run on tq atm, there are no mechanics to prevent that 5 man t1 gang bringing their 50 t3 freinds to gank the 5 man t1 gang they agreed to fight. Expecting people to embrace pvp when all they experience is blobs and ganks is naive.

You have social engineering, among other things.

It has been done, you just need some imagination.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:16:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Sader Rykane


Just like the alliance tournament right? Remember when that merc corp totally scanned down and hot-dropped everyone during the finals? Wasn't it awesome?

I'm not quite sure why you don't understand why this would completely defeat the purpose of a competitive arena.


In 'official' one off tournaments with prizes fees et all ccp (concord) can lock the gates, in normal every day arenas being in an area shouldn't afford people any additional protection from the limited dangers of high sec. If you have an active war-dec or kill-rights you have to live with the consequences. Being in a deadspace only accessible by probing and to limited enemy ships is enough. If suicide ganking is a worry then you should realise they could easily have been ganked before they got to the arena .... If someone is willing to go to the bother of probing + suiciding 10 bs to kill your 1 bs in an essentially meaningless fight with no real consequences more power to them.


Assuming the Arena had a rating system, which btw I thought was a given, then how would that make it somehow less official than the alliance tournament?

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:18:00 - [81]
 


I think the AT is meant to be a marketing tool.

Regarding the World Cup question above: A better comparison would be would the World Cup be as fun to watch if nobody else in the world was allowed to play the game? Oh...wait...It's one of the most played sports in the world AND one of the most highly anticipated and watched events in the world.

My only concern would be mixing of kill stats. Arena kills would have to be tracked separately from open-space kills (apples&oranges.) I'm not sure if participants in the AT get actual KMs during the match?


Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:23:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 15:24:54
Originally by: Roosterton
Edited by: Roosterton on 18/03/2011 15:11:51
Quote:

So you are against fair fights or something? You do realize that fair fights would allow you to really show your skill as a pilot right? I mean when all things are equal, generally speaking its the better (or I suppose luckier) player that will generally win. For me its less about the hotdrop / blobbing and more about the mind numbing hours of jumping through gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate....oh look someones in local... oh nvm theres station, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after gate, after LOCAL SPIKE!, alright they're just passing through, after gate, after gate... **** I've been at this for 3 hours? Alright time to dock up and head to bed.



I'm not so much against fair fights, as I am against people putting in basically no effort to instantly get a guaranteed fair fight.

"Showing your skill as a pilot," imo, has less to do with your actual piloting skill, as it does with choosing your fights, weighing the chances, being careful (or brave, depending) and then going for it.


Why do you believe roaming for hours and coming up drying must somehow be a prerequisite to finding a fair fight? Because that's the way its always been? Well you know what else used to always be here? Learning skills, you don't see those anymore do you?

What I'm trying to say is I do not see a correlation between getting blobbed, roaming for hours, or anything when it comes to the actual moment of PvP. I would like to fight people, I would like those fights to happen in a reasonable timeframe, I would like those fights to be reasonably fair. I don't care if I win or lose but I pay good money for this game just as you do, I just don't feel that wasting hours to find a decent fight somehow enhances game play.

And you know what, its not like your form of pvp which you seem to have so much success with will suddenly disappear. People who like roaming will STILL roam. I've essentially given up roaming, for all intents and purposes you've already lost me as a potential "target" anyway, adding arenas doesn't remove me from your target pool because I'm no longer there anymore.


Originally by: KaarBaak

I think the AT is meant to be a marketing tool.

Regarding the World Cup question above: A better comparison would be would the World Cup be as fun to watch if nobody else in the world was allowed to play the game? Oh...wait...It's one of the most played sports in the world AND one of the most highly anticipated and watched events in the world.

My only concern would be mixing of kill stats. Arena kills would have to be tracked separately from open-space kills (apples&oranges.) I'm not sure if participants in the AT get actual KMs during the match?




I'de say records could be tracked in a completely different way, something public that can be viewed.

Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:28:00 - [83]
 

Firstly, it is a bit immersion breaking. The idea for me is a bit weird in fitting with the back story etc.

But mostly, it's because the idea of eve for the most part is you create things. You create events. You create your wealth, your trade, your Empire, your scams etc.

So, with this in mind, Arena style pvp should be done via players organising events. Which already happens.

Red vs Blue for example, has a certain arena aspect, in that you can organise honoured 1 vs 1 fights. And that is just one of MANY examples of players getting together and forming this kind of situation.

Why should I have to build a tech 3? Why can't I buy it just straight from an NPC dealer. It isn't really any different.

That's why it breaks the Sandbox, because you are removing the responsibility of the players to create things, and want it done for you.

ezthumper
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:29:00 - [84]
 

Emo rants to further your agenda. Is just full of win.


Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:32:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Sader Rykane on 18/03/2011 15:32:49
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Firstly, it is a bit immersion breaking. The idea for me is a bit weird in fitting with the back story etc.

But mostly, it's because the idea of eve for the most part is you create things. You create events. You create your wealth, your trade, your Empire, your scams etc.

So, with this in mind, Arena style pvp should be done via players organising events. Which already happens.

Red vs Blue for example, has a certain arena aspect, in that you can organise honoured 1 vs 1 fights. And that is just one of MANY examples of players getting together and forming this kind of situation.

Why should I have to build a tech 3? Why can't I buy it just straight from an NPC dealer. It isn't really any different.

That's why it breaks the Sandbox, because you are removing the responsibility of the players to create things, and want it done for you.


The Alliance tournament isn't immersion breaking? Nations IRL regularly get together and kill each other for sport with live ammunition right? Oh and they definitely broadcast it where everyone can see.

I keep using the Alliance Tournament as an example because its exactly what I want for EVERYONE ELSE, instead of those lucky select few once or twice a year.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:36:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak
I'm not sure if participants in the AT get actual KMs during the match?


You get killmails just like any other PVP fight. Also unless you didn't know, the ships used in the alliance tourney aren't free.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:39:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Firstly, it is a bit immersion breaking. The idea for me is a bit weird in fitting with the back story etc.

But mostly, it's because the idea of eve for the most part is you create things. You create events. You create your wealth, your trade, your Empire, your scams etc.

So, with this in mind, Arena style pvp should be done via players organising events. Which already happens.

Red vs Blue for example, has a certain arena aspect, in that you can organise honoured 1 vs 1 fights. And that is just one of MANY examples of players getting together and forming this kind of situation.

Why should I have to build a tech 3? Why can't I buy it just straight from an NPC dealer. It isn't really any different.

That's why it breaks the Sandbox, because you are removing the responsibility of the players to create things, and want it done for you.


It actually makes plenty sense in the back story, the amarrians have a whole tournament thing going on in their culture re; chosing an emperor, the khanid have an arena cyber gladiator tradition which updates pretty well to capsuleers in ships.

As for imersion its no more imersion breaking than ship limits on FW gates, or fleet size limits in incursions. Players don't give out missions, which is the no 1 pastime in eve. They don't give bounties for killing rats. Its certainly no more imersion breaking than our "shooting this structure makes me ruler of this star system" sov system. There is no imersion in eve except what you make for yourself, and as ever in eve you don't have to do it if you don't want to. If you don't do it, it can't break your imersion. It is simply a mechanic to enable pvp in the same vein as the sov system, FW and war-decs (all of which are broken so i wouldn't hold out much hope of ccp implementing arenas properly).

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.03.18 15:44:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Doddy
Originally by: Sader Rykane


Just like the alliance tournament right? Remember when that merc corp totally scanned down and hot-dropped everyone during the finals? Wasn't it awesome?

I'm not quite sure why you don't understand why this would completely defeat the purpose of a competitive arena.


In 'official' one off tournaments with prizes fees et all ccp (concord) can lock the gates, in normal every day arenas being in an area shouldn't afford people any additional protection from the limited dangers of high sec. If you have an active war-dec or kill-rights you have to live with the consequences. Being in a deadspace only accessible by probing and to limited enemy ships is enough. If suicide ganking is a worry then you should realise they could easily have been ganked before they got to the arena .... If someone is willing to go to the bother of probing + suiciding 10 bs to kill your 1 bs in an essentially meaningless fight with no real consequences more power to them.


Assuming the Arena had a rating system, which btw I thought was a given, then how would that make it somehow less official than the alliance tournament?


I assumed arenas would be drop in affairs gangs went to when they wanted a fight. If they want to organize leagues/tournaments outside of ccp events (like the alliance tournament) thats entirely up to the players, and thus should follow the same rules as any other action in eve. Its not actually that difficult, you just use a third party who will hold a result as void in the unlikely event that it is interrupted by suicide gankers.

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.18 16:17:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but in nearly all cases when I roam solo, this is pretty much how it goes.

You lack experience, and I'm pretty sure you are just trolling.

Ba'lur Rorrot
Posted - 2011.03.18 16:24:00 - [90]
 

Didn't even read half of these post. The game needs no arena mechanic because as players we can easily organize the fights our selves, its just sad we don't.(its almost like some group should organize fights 3v3's, 10 on 10's and so on, you tube it and take bets/sell tickets to the show in game live)
The alliance tournament gets hype the same way any big sports crap gets it. Its more fun to play it your self with your friends, but its simpler to watch it with a pint at 3am.


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