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TaluxA
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:04:00 - [31]
 

I don't think that scanner spots a blob on the other side of a gate fyi.

Blobbing is something that happens intentionally or not, and it's a legitimate way of playing that's within the rules. But don't go around saying it's tactics.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.22 02:11:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Dorian Wylde
I love how good tactics has somehow become "mindless" in this game.


some people are just allergic to winning!

Regis Nex
Posted - 2011.03.22 22:56:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: TaluxA
I don't think that scanner spots a blob on the other side of a gate fyi.

Blobbing is something that happens intentionally or not, and it's a legitimate way of playing that's within the rules. But don't go around saying it's tactics.


Confirming this guy is very serious in life, in game and was created with no funny bone.

Zane Nucleus
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.03.23 04:12:00 - [34]
 

It's only blobbing if you are on the losing end of it.

LordSpock
Posted - 2011.03.23 09:23:00 - [35]
 

And again blobbing is a sign that EVE makes us think like in real life.

You think in real life the US would have cut down on numbers when invading Iraq or Afghanistan just to have a 'fair/equal' fight?

You think Khadaffi would loose his jets and tanks to give the rebels/opposition a better chance and make the fight more important than the winning?

I guess not. If we go to battle, play a game we do it to win (at least I think many people do so).
I that case EVE is just the same. When we go and commence battle we do so to win, and thus we have better chances to win when in bigger fleets than the enemy. And as said by someone else already. It's only a blob when on the losing side. Hell even 3 vs. 1 can be called blobbing as they loser will be overwhelmed 3 to 1. Same would be a 60 vs 20. Numbers are the same again it is 3 to 1, but suddenly it is much more a blob.

Live with it and if you don't want to loose your precious ship don't go out in blob-sensitive space.

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.23 11:37:00 - [36]
 

Comparing internet spaceship pew pew to war. SERIOUS BUSINESS.

Shurikane
Posted - 2011.03.23 12:17:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Frau Klaps
Comparing internet spaceship pew pew to war. SERIOUS BUSINESS.


Quote in the name of all that is holy. Very Happy

LordSpock
Posted - 2011.03.23 12:33:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Frau Klaps
Comparing internet spaceship pew pew to war. SERIOUS BUSINESS.


No, comparing the way we think in real life with the way we think ingame.

I could have just taken other examples but thought this was a recognisable example of the way we think in real life and made a link to the way we think ingame.

I could have taken a soccer match. How often don't player try to get another player to get a red-card to get kicked out of the match. This (imo) is done to let the opponent have less players and make sure that you have the advantage of higher numbers.

Maybe you can even link it in the way of thinking some athletes have. By spending x-amount more money (equals having x-amount more pixlespaceships on the field) on equipment needed for a match, than the opponent (equals the opponent that gets 'blobbed') spends makes the chances of winning much higher.

Point is that people always try to find ways to get an advantage over the opponent, being it by much more materials, much better equipment or the advantage of numbers (aka blobbing).

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.03.23 13:35:00 - [39]
 

All I see is a buncha crap explanations from morons trying to make themselves seem smarter by using big words and repeating "human nature" twenty times as if they are Freud or something.


Blobbing is for pussies, if you blob you are a ***** and pathetic. Enough said.

Holdout
Posted - 2011.03.23 13:44:00 - [40]
 

"Hey guys, just stay docked up. We want a better chance of losing!"

Never going to happen...

freshspree
Caldari
Dissonance Corp
Posted - 2011.03.23 15:10:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Zane Nucleus
It's only blobbing if you are on the losing end of it.


Pretty much this

Yarda
Posted - 2011.03.23 16:04:00 - [42]
 

Yes... blobbing. terrible. I disagree. If you manage to round up more numbers, you deserve to win.

In defence of PL:
I was involved in a couple of large fleetfights PL should have been a part of. They didn't show up. Guess they refused to be the one being blobbed instead of the other way around. HOWEVER; a very brave squad of stealthbombers did make several (succesfull) bombingruns on the blob. They all died ofc, but still. Impressive display of capability imho.

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.03.24 15:41:00 - [43]
 

If you think "blobbing" is "mindless", I invite you to form and maintain an alliance able to field 300 pilots with zero notice at any time in the 23 hour day. Ideally with capital and supercapital support on standby - and of course, an industrial machine to replace those if things take the wrong turn. Then go and claim some space for yourself. Blobbing doesn't take any skill or thought. That's why we see a new 0.0 alliance rise every week.

Oh, wait.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.03.24 17:59:00 - [44]
 

If the blobs were actually mindless you could solo them in a rifter. I mean by definition a mindless player wouldn't even turn on his modules; he'd just sit there and drool, yeah?

Even if we consider mindless in the sense it was intended, a fleet of 300 unorganized, mismatched, poorly fit, poorly led and generally stupid people would get trounced by a fleet of 150, organized, planned, well constructed, properly fit and well led players.

Numbers alone will not bring victory. People are a resource, just like anything else. And just like any resource, if you don't manage it properly it's worthless.

If a fleet twice your size engages you, you will probably lose. But by the same token, if you're a fleet of rifters and a fleet of jaguars engages you, you'll probably lose. People will cry "baaaaaw, they blobbed us!" But no one cries "baaaaaw, they had better ships than ours!"

If you have the wealth and logistics necessary to field better ships, why wouldn't you want that advantage? If you have the people and leadership necessary to field larger fleets, why wouldn't you want that advantage?

Glitch Enat
Posted - 2011.03.24 22:16:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Zane Nucleus
It's only blobbing if you are on the losing end of it.


This ^

also alot of you seem to be very sour about the subject. Blobs are the way warfare has always been and you bet your pairs it aint changing.

Big Bob Hakuli
Posted - 2011.03.26 17:51:00 - [46]
 

In faction warfare a big part of the problem is people being too scared to engage because they brought ships they're too scared to lose. I've frequently seen people refuse to engage stuff like 20 vs 18 because they felt there wasn't enough of an advantage. Only real solution is to kick pussies with more isk than skill out of your gangs.

Tarigal
Posted - 2011.03.26 18:10:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Tarigal on 26/03/2011 18:11:14
Ever wonder why no one is afraid to solo in other games like Wow? It is because nothing is on the line. **** is on the line in eve, hard worked hours that can all go up in smoke.

Imagine a spectrum called "loss consequences." The higher the consequences, the less likely people will be to solo, do small gang stuff, and hold up honorable fights.

You want less blobbing? You have to lower the loss consequences. But that will change eve, perhaps make things less fun, who knows; its all trade offs.

Regis Nex
Posted - 2011.03.27 08:10:00 - [48]
 


rumncock
Posted - 2011.03.27 11:08:00 - [49]
 

I enjoy a good solo or small scale roam but really big fleet fights can be a lot of fun too as long as the node doesn't explode, it always turns into smaller skirmishes any ways. The fights where two short range fleets stand face to face for an extended time beating each other in the face is not the normal course of things even if it does occasionally happen.

sure beats the hell out of waiting at some gate for 5 hours for an ibis to pop up or bothering pve fit ships.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.28 12:45:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
Originally by: Lord Ryan
As a life long hater of blobs, I have recently came to the conclusion I would rather be part of 0.0 blobs than deal high/low sec local @$$hats and neutral reppers. Where I live there are no neutrals!Wink


Where you live everything is blue.

Not only is everything blue, the entire PB area is full of carebears; the CTA mails down there are hilarious for a group of people that 'shun blobbing' and all. 'Blobbing' is an excuse, does it happen? Sure. Is it inconvenient when you can't fight back? I would imagine.

Does how you feel about it stop it from happening? No.
Will it ever go away? No.


You can be against blobbing but take part in it. It escapes people who live in high sec that Sov mechanics lead to blobs, defending territory leads to blobs. Taking territory leads to blobs. If a POS needs taking down it needs a blob. I prefer smaller fleet fights but I also understand that alliances will bring everything to the table when they are fighting for Sov.

Oh and while you're here, could you ask the rest of your alliance to do something more interesting than sit on EC gate and then run away at anything more offensive than a pair of drakes? :P

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2011.03.28 15:24:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Noisrevbus on 28/03/2011 15:39:17
Originally by: knobber Jobbler

You can be against blobbing but take part in it. It escapes people who live in high sec that Sov mechanics lead to blobs, defending territory leads to blobs. Taking territory leads to blobs. If a POS needs taking down it needs a blob. I prefer smaller fleet fights but I also understand that alliances will bring everything to the table when they are fighting for Sov.



This, above.

I remember an older thread about 'blobs' where Minigin got alot of smack for his comments but actually was onto something very important. 'Blobbing' is not necessarily having excess numbers, it's when you won't do anything without them - and you don't have to, because the game lack mechanics for alternate options. There's no problem, to the scale of game-design, fighting a larger force if there are ways to go around a direct slugfest. That's where Domion went wrong and continued the AFK empires (which it set out to discourage).

Knobbler's post ties perfectly into the topic just above this one on the forum (about Supercapitals). Supers in all their overpowered glory can both be seen as negative and positive, where they on the positive side are tools to overcome blobbing. Supers may be poor in balance to ship-ship interaction, but definately a bright light when it comes to ship-structure interaction, ship-blob or (for lowsec-) ship-dock interaction which are all negative aspects of the game on their own.

Supers bring swift divine justice to those who don't actively defend their space and hide behind the volume-to-resource balance of structures, and response-time to bluefest, or those who hide in stations only to play docking games. Without using Supers to overcome the demand of resources for the volume, you would need to blob them to deal with their antics. The best way around it is of course to nerf or find alternates to all these issues, but as long as people play docking games with Carriers in lowsec or as long as structure-warfare remains as is, Supers can also be seen in a positive light.

The only other option to those situations in today's EVE is "moar sheeeps".

Devron Taal
Posted - 2011.04.07 02:35:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Devron Taal on 07/04/2011 02:37:25
Edited by: Devron Taal on 07/04/2011 02:37:12
The reason why blobs happen is because Eve has no modeling of fire arcs. So long as any ship within distance has a shot at hitting a target, regardless of its orientation, then it makes sense for everyone to concentrate fire on 1 target at a time. If you introduce variables that makes guns not able to lock on target if say the broadside of the ship that they are on is not facing the target, then the act of concentrated fire will have effects on fleet movements of the attackers (say by forcing them all to turn sideways to point their guns) which may have adverse effects for the formation, making concentrated fire of all ships impractical or disadvantageous compared to smaller task forces. I think this is a better solution that the 'targeting noise' solution.



Dr Richard Dawkins
Posted - 2011.04.07 02:44:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Noisrevbus
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 28/03/2011 15:39:17
Originally by: knobber Jobbler

You can be against blobbing but take part in it. It escapes people who live in high sec that Sov mechanics lead to blobs, defending territory leads to blobs. Taking territory leads to blobs. If a POS needs taking down it needs a blob. I prefer smaller fleet fights but I also understand that alliances will bring everything to the table when they are fighting for Sov.



This, above.

I remember an older thread about 'blobs' where Minigin got alot of smack for his comments but actually was onto something very important. 'Blobbing' is not necessarily having excess numbers, it's when you won't do anything without them - and you don't have to, because the game lack mechanics for alternate options. There's no problem, to the scale of game-design, fighting a larger force if there are ways to go around a direct slugfest. That's where Domion went wrong and continued the AFK empires (which it set out to discourage).

Knobbler's post ties perfectly into the topic just above this one on the forum (about Supercapitals). Supers in all their overpowered glory can both be seen as negative and positive, where they on the positive side are tools to overcome blobbing. Supers may be poor in balance to ship-ship interaction, but definately a bright light when it comes to ship-structure interaction, ship-blob or (for lowsec-) ship-dock interaction which are all negative aspects of the game on their own.

Supers bring swift divine justice to those who don't actively defend their space and hide behind the volume-to-resource balance of structures, and response-time to bluefest, or those who hide in stations only to play docking games. Without using Supers to overcome the demand of resources for the volume, you would need to blob them to deal with their antics. The best way around it is of course to nerf or find alternates to all these issues, but as long as people play docking games with Carriers in lowsec or as long as structure-warfare remains as is, Supers can also be seen in a positive light.

The only other option to those situations in today's EVE is "moar sheeeps".


Good poast, +1

Michael J Fox
Posted - 2011.04.07 10:27:00 - [54]
 

stacking penalty tbh - the more ships you bring the less damage you do.

RedEye
Minmatar
GZS-R Minmatar Fleet
Posted - 2011.04.07 11:10:00 - [55]
 

Blobbing is simply natural dynamics and evolution in combat - which is supposed to be the point of the sandbox.

50v1 - Yeah its frustrating but mostly you were just a target of opportunity they were out looking for something bigger - get over it and learn to navigate null/low.

What ****es me off - is the near equal fleets when people won't engage for fear of ship loss - can't afford to fly it - don't.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.07 11:19:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Michael J Fox
stacking penalty tbh - the more ships you bring the less damage you do.


Eve has some crazy mechanics but that shouldn't be one of them nor would it work. You'd end up with more smaller fleets in the same place.

You might also end up with more need for capitals.

Blobs are a natural thing in eve, its like the battle of jutland, kursk or any other big battle where two or more powerblocs decide to fight. You mass resource, figure out a plan and wade into battle.

Forcing large alliances or coalitions to not field everything they have actually defeats the entire point of player owned space. All the politics is what separates eve from every other mmo.

The nearest game to eve was daoc which also had player owned territory also featured something similar to blobs.

Kern Hotha
Posted - 2011.04.17 21:30:00 - [57]
 

Enabling ship collision damage would reduce blobs. Fleet warp would need to be tweaked, of course.

Lord's Servant
Amarr
Hard Rock Mining Co.
The Jagged Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.17 22:14:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
the op needs to ask himself why people blob.

if say on an Intel channel someone reports an enemy fleet picking on ratters and an alliance fc puts up a fleet to tackle them, he's not going to turn pilots down wanting to join and certainty not on a point of fairness towards the other fleet. the sighted fleet will happily blob a single ratter.

that way he'll be able to trap the enemy fleet into a system with no means of escape. its not about kills mails always either. its about getting people of our hard won land;)

small gang pvp is fun but no fc is going to turn down numbers in response to an enemy fleet. zukhov wasnt going to send home half his divisions when fighting the Germans because it was unfair.


Originally by: knobber Jobbler
that way he'll be able to trap the enemy fleet into a system with no means of escape. its not about kills mails always either. its about getting people of our hard won land;)


Originally by: knobber Jobbler
its about getting people of our hard won land;)


Originally by: knobber Jobbler
our hard won land;)


Originally by: knobber Jobbler
hard won


AAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

*gasp*

Sorry I just can't...

AHAHAAHHHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHHAHAHH

I think you mean "land given to us in return for our service as meatshields to further enhance our mighty overlord's blob"

Eve is really a quite simple game. Blobs are a part of it, as blobs were and are a part of real life.

To take an oft-referenced example, look at the Persian Empire v Greece.

The Persians had a vast slave army, which was mostly unskilled/inferior (NC + vast hordes of pets/"bffs").

The Grecians had lesser numbers, but vastly superior weaponry, skills, and were backed by a strong armored/professional core of hoplites/spartans(PL/NCdawt/skilled pvpers).

Though outnumbered, the Grecians were able to slaughter the inferior Persians, and save Grecian City-States from conquest.

Years later, the Grecian city states became divided and were individually conquered.

Another example were the Roman Legions. Through strict discipline and attention to detail, there are numerous examples of heavily outnumbered Roman Legions absolutely destroying far greater numbers (slave uprisings, barbarians) of inferior forces.

In early medieval Europe, the knight-class emerged, and for years the Knights(supers) were an undefeatable force, with the heavy cavalry charge(supercap hotdrop) being entirely unbeatable. The immense cost of the arms, armor, and upkeep of a stable of horses + servants meant that their numbers were always lower than that of the common peasants. He who had the most Knights easily won every fight.

Knights were not, however constant assets. Knights were expensive, and there are many cases of knights deserting or leaving the service of a lord when morale became low, or when the flow of money was interrupted.

What is happening with the NC + Blobs currently is a combination of all of the above.

The "city states" of more skilled pvpers are uniting, and the difference between them and the NC, is they have organized supers that are motivated, experienced and firmly loyal. The NC's supers are mostly based off of isk, and are personal toys, rather than firm military alliance-backed assets like the DRF/PL/NCdawt's are.

As the NC's morale falls, more and more of their supers are leaving/not showing up for ops. The same goes for their large meatshield/peasant base, as morale drops, so does the body of serfs they have to call on to bolster their blobs.

The NC was formed on an unsustainable model, and is currently witnessing the results of that failed model. They would have fallen under MAX 2 had there not been internal friction between the SC at the time. PL provided the prototype of what a small core of seriously skilled/experienced could accomplish, and with larger amounts of skilled pvpers arraying against them, the NC will fall without drastic model changes. It is inevitable.

-Lord's Servant

Mohsin3
Minmatar
Reverentia
Illuminati.
Posted - 2011.04.17 23:03:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Mohsin3 on 17/04/2011 23:15:08


'blobbing' seems like a legitimate tactic for those who haven't being playing the game as long as people who bought this game years ago or even when it first came out

if i may compare it with other games, let's say rome total war :] you can use lots of fodder barbarian units to zerg swarm and surround the elite spartan or roman minority

same in eve .. lots of noobs, with noob skills who wish to experience pvp but don't have the skills or isk .. this seems like a good way to learn pvp and defeat superior players who can afford the most expensive ships, expensive implants (snake set for example), ships and have all lvl 5 combat related skills

seems fair and balanced to me ... at least until those same noobs become highly trained and can then fly solo or in small gangs confidently and competently

"safety / strength in numbers" seems appropriate just as it is a game tactic

some older, skilled players may disagree with this point of view because they like the hierarchy of destroying noobs that aren't even a challenge to them .. which i see a lot of actually in reverse - lots of skilled older players actually blobbing a solo noob .. go figure Rolling Eyes

but anyway they should be happy with all the noobs they will kill in that blob before they die =] lots of kill mails yay Razz

ps. can someone point me in the direction of corps with lots of members which do this and are recruiting noobs ? :] i want to try it out lol ...

people told me goonswarm does this but they rejected my application Neutral

also i might add that a lot of the epic game trailers show huge navies fighting huge enemy navies ('blobs') ... i think most people signing up for this game would have expected this sort of large scale combat ...

EVE Online: Tyrannis Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms95NKFnhCU

EVE Online: Dominion Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDVEHE10nHc

would anyone care to explain these trailers ? :] or do you also disagree with the blobs in the trailers too ? false advertising ? Confused

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.18 10:33:00 - [60]
 



Originally by: Lord's Servant
Lots of useless text trying to say NC./PL/DRF don't need to blob but actually do blob but its ok


CAOD stuff no? The south is just one giant blue fest as well, don't pretend otherwise. PL blobs, NC. blobs and DRF is king of the blob. I've never even seen a DRF pilot who doesn't have 300 buddies. Apart from the slightly more automated ones killing drones who dock up when you enter system ;).

You all blob and don't even deny it. You'll take strength in numbers and do often.


Originally by: Lord's Servant
The NC's supers are mostly based off of isk, and are personal toys, rather than firm military alliance-botted assets like the DRF/PL/NCdawt's are.


I helped you out there.

You might find the large scale mercenary model is about to break. There is only so many times you can pay an alliance 500b ISK to fight for you before it runs out or people start to seriously question where it comes from. Moon goo? No. Renters? No. Corp Tax? Not that kind of ISK. Selling supers? No...

What might break the blob or reduce them is less ISK in the economy. That doesn't affect the NC as much as you rightfully point out, they have the numbers to counter losses.



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