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blankseplocked Venting some thoughts about new P.I. system
 
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TLWE
Polish Lords' Confederacy
Posted - 2011.03.08 16:22:00 - [1]
 

Hi!

First I would say that new system is much better then old one. More dynamic. Even if it takes 4x time longer to set up, it is much easier on clicking front. A right way of development imho. Good work CCP!

Now to things that bug me in this new P.I.

1. There is some bug that makes routes not to stick after clicking "confirm" and planet ui fooling you they were applied. Work around is to make sure that the route is applied on transport line that was existing already before starting to make new set of changes.

2. There is some bug screaming "Can not add yet another mining head! Changes not applied!" when clicking "confirm" even if after changes there is like only command center left alone on planet. Work around is to cancel all changes and start applying them small tiny step after small tiny step and watching timer warnings after every clicking "confirm" go down. Time after time till all changes has been tediously applied.

3. There is huge issue with downgrading transport lines. To downgrade from lv3 to lv2 you need to tear the transport line, upgrade it to lv2, click "confirm" and then redo routing and click "confirm" again. Bug 1 applies here, when setting routes up, so it is particularly nasty if you happen to forget about it. I put suggestion of adding "downgrade" besides "upgrade" button on transport lines in topic in "suggestions and ideas" thread, but I didn't see much interest awakened about it from other eve players or CCP.

4. There is an irritating thing with auto-zoom feature. On entering planetary view you are automatically centered upon your command center, which is not bad. If only the cursed thing didn't go then MAX ZOOM on its own. It is particularly irritating, as you never happen to have your extractors any close to your command center. Never. So every planet you happen visit starts with desperate effort of mass double clicks in order to break out the cursed spell of auto-zoom on command center. Unless you were too slow of course, because then you must un-zoom whole damage back to the max. Only on max you can easily spin around the planet and find your ECUs.

5. There is an irritating thing with planetary menu. It always opens on building list. It is irritating because of dynamic way of planetary industry one needs it more to be opened on a scanning page. Preferably on same resource and place of bar, which was used exactly on this planet last time. There should be some way to make these last setting remembered for each planet.

6. Setting a new ECU up is a bit of a click party of old. This is because each time you set these ECU you can go with minimum setting of 4 hours or max setting of 14 days. Anything else involves dragging the bar around and then clicking for minute or so to get exactly the timing you are wishing for. Why there is no keyboard way to enter the number of duration time or one preset "user's default" setting a player can use with single click to set ECU without major clicking party?

Sorry for my poor English. Thumbs out for the new forum. A long time ago deserved upgrade. :)

Darcon Kylote
Posted - 2011.03.08 16:29:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: TLWE

...
Anything else involves dragging the bar around and then clicking for minute or so to get exactly the timing you are wishing for. Why there is no keyboard way to enter the number of duration time or one preset "user's default" setting a player can use with single click to set ECU without major clicking party?
...



Couldn't agree more. The lack of this was glaring the first time I saw it and every time I noodle around that damn slider, I get more and more annoyed. They could have at least made the slider "stick" at the commonly used cycles from the old system, like 5 hours, 23 hours, etc.

Carabidae
Posted - 2011.03.08 17:44:00 - [3]
 

Yep this would be great. Maybe it could allow us to choose from a set of pre-defined options which we can define ourselves? The slider sucks...

Andy Landen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.08 17:49:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Andy Landen on 08/03/2011 17:50:30
Well said. Also, is there a feature to start all extractor heads of a group or type at the same extraction rate/time with a single click? There ought to be. That's the main reason I have not gotten back into PI.

Cyniac
Gallente
Twilight Star Rangers
Posted - 2011.03.08 17:52:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: TLWE
Hi!


Hi! Razz

Quite a few interesting thoughts, nice to start to see threads that go beyond the "extraction rates deplete too fast" mode.

Originally by: TLWE
1. There is some bug that makes routes not to stick after clicking "confirm" and planet ui fooling you they were applied. Work around is to make sure that the route is applied on transport line that was existing already before starting to make new set of changes.


Sounds bad. Never ran into it. Does it have to do with complex routes (i.e. those which go through multiple pins?) I've seen some materials being routed in a funky way at times (i.e. the route taking by the materials doesn't seem to be optimal) but as it worked I never bothered much about it.

Originally by: TLWE
2. There is some bug screaming "Can not add yet another mining head! Changes not applied!" when clicking "confirm" even if after changes there is like only command center left alone on planet. Work around is to cancel all changes and start applying them small tiny step after small tiny step and watching timer warnings after every clicking "confirm" go down. Time after time till all changes has been tediously applied.


Again never ran into this one... needs to be fixed if this is the case. I tend to plonk down the whole colony, "confirm" start the extractors "confirm" set all the schematics and routes "confirm" then I just kick back!

Originally by: TLWE
3. There is huge issue with downgrading transport lines. To downgrade from lv3 to lv2 you need to tear the transport line, upgrade it to lv2, click "confirm" and then redo routing and click "confirm" again. Bug 1 applies here, when setting routes up, so it is particularly nasty if you happen to forget about it. I put suggestion of adding "downgrade" besides "upgrade" button on transport lines in topic in "suggestions and ideas" thread, but I didn't see much interest awakened about it from other eve players or CCP.


Great idea. In practice I've never needed to downgrade a transport line though.

Originally by: TLWE
4. There is an irritating thing with auto-zoom feature. On entering planetary view you are automatically centered upon your command center, which is not bad. If only the cursed thing didn't go then MAX ZOOM on its own. It is particularly irritating, as you never happen to have your extractors any close to your command center. Never. So every planet you happen visit starts with desperate effort of mass double clicks in order to break out the cursed spell of auto-zoom on command center. Unless you were too slow of course, because then you must un-zoom whole damage back to the max. Only on max you can easily spin around the planet and find your ECUs.


Ugh yeah - we can all agree this is annoying.... really annoying.

Originally by: TLWE
5. There is an irritating thing with planetary menu. It always opens on building list. It is irritating because of dynamic way of planetary industry one needs it more to be opened on a scanning page. Preferably on same resource and place of bar, which was used exactly on this planet last time. There should be some way to make these last setting remembered for each planet.


This one... depends on how you use PI. For me this is perfect, because I am mostly interested in buildings (I have yet to move colonies around though) so I would say situational... if only such things could be configured right?

Originally by: TLWE
6. Setting a new ECU up is a bit of a click party of old. This is because each time you set these ECU you can go with minimum setting of 4 hours or max setting of 14 days. Anything else involves dragging the bar around and then clicking for minute or so to get exactly the timing you are wishing for. Why there is no keyboard way to enter the number of duration time or one preset "user's default" setting a player can use with single click to set ECU without major clicking party?


Yep. But the advantage is you do it once and then not have to fret about it again!



TLWE
Polish Lords' Confederacy
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:51:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Cyniac
Sounds bad. Never ran into it. Does it have to do with complex routes (i.e. those which go through multiple pins?) I've seen some materials being routed in a funky way at times (i.e. the route taking by the materials doesn't seem to be optimal) but as it worked I never bothered much about it.


I have seen it few times. Usually short routes like ECU-launchpad or launchpad-processor upon transport lines put in one swift go together with routes.

Originally by: Cyniac
Again never ran into this one... needs to be fixed if this is the case. I tend to plonk down the whole colony, "confirm" start the extractors "confirm" set all the schematics and routes "confirm" then I just kick back!


I tend to reuse launchpads and processors. This way sometimes the transport line of lv1 can be 1000pg-4000pg on some large planets. Clearly downgrading such transport line is like 2-7 mining heads difference. :)

Originally by: Cyniac

This one... depends on how you use PI. For me this is perfect, because I am mostly interested in buildings (I have yet to move colonies around though) so I would say situational... if only such things could be configured right?



Situational indeed. However when you mine extensively with 2+ characters with maxed skills same rare resource on same planet you do eventually deplete it almost to 0 on planetary resource scanner. This forced me to redo all my colonies and get rid off with all doubles.

Originally by: Cyniac

Yep. But the advantage is you do it once and then not have to fret about it again!



True, but sometimes when you been merrily harvesting one side of planet you notice a very strange thing. Other side of planet turning suddenly much more greener pastures for your ECUs. Here particularly I mean the hot spots. For example some rare resource can be like 1% on planetary resource scanner' bar after weeks of extensive mining of planet. However somehow there is this one softy hot spot, which shows on resource bar of ECU 50%-75% of resource! So much, much, much more greener pastures! Highest time to move, right? Sometimes I move ECU and sometimes entire launchpad+processors complexes. :)

Invictra Atreides
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.08 20:31:00 - [7]
 

No.4 also bugs me. I always have to rotate the damn disco ball to get to my buildings.

And some planets are too bright. It hurts my eyes when zoomed in.


TLWE
Polish Lords' Confederacy
Posted - 2011.03.08 23:07:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Invictra Atreides
No.4 also bugs me. I always have to rotate the damn disco ball to get to my buildings.

And some planets are too bright. It hurts my eyes when zoomed in.




Now, when you are mentioning it. Ice planets are blinding nightmare, but also planting mining heads on white colored hot spots is as well troublesome. Sometimes I just hover over with the mining head till my eyes adapt enough to put it perfectly.

Jonn Smyth
Posted - 2011.03.09 20:51:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Jonn Smyth on 09/03/2011 21:03:09
I'm running into a UI problem with PI as well, specifically with ECU-to-Launchpad route creation. Every time I setup a new ECU, my workflow goes: Build ECU, link ECU to Launcpad, Submit. Go back to ECU, set extraction program days/heads/resource, Install program. Select the ECU again, select the Products menu, select the Product, Click "Create Route", and then......

This is where I get frustrated, because when I select the product, and click "create route", and then go to select the launchpad as the destination, sometimes it doesn't select the launchpad as the destination for the route so I can confirm it, but instead acts as if I just clicked on the launchpad to bring up the launchpad menu. Of course, the routing menu for the ECU disappears, and since I usually have to zoom in on the launchpad to select it as the route's destination, I now have to zoom out, spin planet back to the ECU and repeat the whole route creation process again.

At first I thought it was random, but after doing PI for a few weeks now, I experience this almost EVERY TIME. I can almost never never create the ECU-to-Launchpad route the first time (no problems with any other routes), because it almost always just opens the launchpad menu when I click on the launchpad as the route destination. I will then go back to the ECU, repeat the process, doing everything exactly the same as I did before (I think), and for some reason, the 2nd time around it will actually select the launchpad as the route destination so that I can confirm the route and submit. What am I doing wrong?




Quetazoid
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:32:00 - [10]
 

Is it national whining day already?

TLWE
Polish Lords' Confederacy
Posted - 2011.03.14 16:13:00 - [11]
 

I got two new shiny whines to add about the workings of the new improved PI system, which my clicking hand likes so very much.

7. Annoying double click. It sometimes feels refreshing, when getting into a bit too much clicking, you are surprisingly zapped to max zoom and moved all over the planet to stare haplessly at your command center. Annoying it gets when you have to unzoom the view and go finding where you have lost the click-hell you just busying over few seconds ago... ugh WHERE I LOST IT ?!? ugh

8. BUG of canceling prematurely program and starting it anew, then ending with your mining timer zapped to 4 hours, resource unselected and ECU left idling happily. Be warned UI lies! Razz Workaround is a) cancel the program and click <CONFIRM>, then b) select start the program and after 6 seconds watching timer running out slowly click <CONFIRM> again.

BTW. Whining and complaining is Polish national recreation so as long some Polish play Eve get used to it and stop complaining and whining about at least that! Twisted Evil Laughing

FlyingSpaghettiMonster
Posted - 2011.03.14 18:37:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Quetazoid
Is it national whining day already?


Actually, today is PI day.Laughing

TLWE
Polish Lords' Confederacy
Posted - 2011.03.24 15:57:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: TLWE on 24/03/2011 15:57:10
Originally by: FlyingSpaghettiMonster
Originally by: Quetazoid
Is it national whining day already?


Actually, today is PI day.Laughing


Every day you feel bad about yourself. So bad that you attempt PI, because nothing can gets it worse. Right? It is the national PI whining day again!!! Laughing

On positive side of thing I see finally pos modules' prices in hisec rising slowly to its prices from before introduction of PI. In some cases even above! Laughing Hurray!! Laughing

I think I also found out the reason why too.

There seems to be the bug+annoyance involved. ugh

Bug doesn't let you to stop-start-<confirm>, as it leaves the PI at stop-<confirm>. Too little clicking <confirm> bug'TM'CCP. :))

So you must do stop-<confirm> and then wait these 6 seconds or so to pass down and start-<confirm> again. Right? Then you get hit by the annoyance!

Annoyance gets ECU reset to 4 hours and unselects resource.

FUN FUN FUN at the market prices going to NORMAL PRICE LEVELS from before PI introduction! Thank you CCP! Can we have more of these things in PI forcing grieving pvpers to watch more often these 6 seconds timers between clicks in PI??? LaughingughLaughing


 

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