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blankseplocked Update: 245.7m effective isk/hour Mission running.
 
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AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.11 05:48:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 06:09:50
To me it does not matter.
People keep saying dps this, dps that
this ship is better, that ship is better.

But in reality, the four most important stats in mission running is warp speed , allign time, targeting range and damage projection.

All other stats could be in moderation

Sadly, the battleships lose in most if not all of the area above.

Simply because high isk/hour missions (the one i listed) are one's with insane blitzing attached to it.


Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.11 08:34:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Sturmwolke on 11/03/2011 08:55:53

Originally by: Liang Nuren

- Holy **** man, get a ****ing life. He got ... was it 10 storylines/day for 3-4 weeks on end or some bull****? Shocked
- I despise all the people saying that the only way to PVE in low sec is in a ****ing unscannable Tengu. People were grinding missions in low sec for years before the introduction of unscannable Tengus.
- There is nothing that makes the Tengu a prerequisite to get these kinds of results. It is more a result of missioning in a certain style in a certain place.


Yes, I was somewhat taken aback on how much hardcore he went, was also somewhat surprised he hasn't completely burned out yet.
Youngters, they haven't grown their wisdom tooth yet Very Happy I would echo the same sentiment, but for most people in general, nothing sticks until you've learnt it the hard way.

Then again, adopting a different perspective, there are also people out there that thrives on competition like beating the game, being the first, being the fastest, being the best there is, best forum fencer and etc. It takes a certain frame of mind and personal effort to accomplish that. While I do admire the tenacity, if I was to ask the obvious question that pops out, why bother? Is it worthwhile?

If I was to answer that for myself, generally no (not for the lack of skills or knowledge).
So, agreed, while technically you're right, a temporary perspective change may explain some of their underlying motivations.

As for the Tengu, it's not the only way, but it's the best there is that combines all the desirable factors into a nicely balanced package for that particular task.
Before there weren't much of choices, now there is a choice(s).

In essence, you're basically arguing style over ship capability. One distinct (but not the only one) contrast between one style vs the other is whether you run solo/lonewolf or you run with blues. It's an MMO yes, does someone need to be best buddies and party up, no, there is a choice (even with all the CCP encouragements).

Edit: Before I attract all the trolls, it's not meant to bash one style vs the other, but more to highlight the greater amount of available choices to players that enriches the game. The FOTM tag is unavoidable unfortunately, as word of mouth and solid experience gravitate players towards a small set of effective tools.

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.11 09:02:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 09:03:25
btw sturmwalke.

I kinda need another tengu rigged Neutral do you have jury rig IV?

Dawn Black
Posted - 2011.03.11 11:09:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Dawn Black on 11/03/2011 11:10:50
The cupcakes inhere talking about unscannable tengus do realize that making it unscanable nullifies the tank right? So i'm wondering why it is even mentioned. Or are we talking lvl 2's here?

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:10:00 - [95]
 

Tengu can tank all lv 4 missions with only 3 medium slot. two with implants.

Larry C
Posted - 2011.03.11 12:13:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: AristotleOnassis
Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 00:14:10
Some mission allows you to make a quick meal or a quick pee.

For example, worlds collide (aproximately 60 seconds free time) , damsel in distress (approximately 100 seconds free time) etc.

By using a wireless laptop, you can take a dump without reducing your isk/hour




I'd say stuff, but you pretty much said it all.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:14:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Crackann
The funny thing about this is that a Tengu is not even a great lvl 4 mission runner. It can do them, but not faster than any of the top-notch mission BSs like CNR, Nightmare, etc.. That is enough to call BS on the whole thing.

For people who want to know about mission running isk for real, there was a very good thread on this topic a little while back from a guy who ran a pure gank setup in Golem, blitzed all possible missions, and came up with I believe something like 60m/hr. That is realistic for a high DPS setup.


when it comes to pure blitzing the tengu is pretty damn far out ahead. between the agility, speed, tank, and dps it just does things!

as for general mission running like the way most highsec players do then yes I'd rather take the cnr/nightmare/ect


Yes, I have to say for blitzing the tengu is pretty damn good. It blitzes WC faster than my Mach, which has much more "dps".

Esan Vartesa
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.03.11 20:49:00 - [98]
 

That's impressive dedication to a hobby, I must say.

But you're turning it into a job, which I think is a shame. If your sole measure of success is isk/hr, then you're doing it wrong.

You might as well get a real job. Even assuming the paltry sum of $10/hr, that's over 200m isk/hr via legitimately buying PLEX.

And you get pee breaks.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.11 20:56:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Yes, I have to say for blitzing the tengu is pretty damn good. It blitzes WC faster than my Mach, which has much more "dps".


if the mach could reliably deal with the webber frigs in the 2nd room I'd say they would be pretty much equal.

as far as warp speed goes I'm not all that convinced it matters that much. dps, damage projection, and lock range matter for sure, plus can tank most full rooms (zomg speed tank!) and be unscanable!

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.11 23:05:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 11/03/2011 23:05:44
There are many missions where tengu clearly is better then machariel

World collide
Blockade (6-7 min)
Damsel in distress (5-6 min)
Smash the supplier (4-5 min)
Gone berserk 4 min
The assault (4-5 min)
Slave trade 1/2 (on average)
Recon 1/3

and obviously, stop the thief, zazzmataz, duo of death, sansha spies ETC.

Dont overestimate mach's dps. They only have 800- dps at 40km+, and 500- outside drone range. Tengu's 700+ at 130km is a much more important trait of a ship. Afterall, it does not rely on drones which are horrible at applying any dps.

btw. dont tell me to get a job, as it is illegal in malaysia to have dual jobs. Yes, im an employed person.

Dawn Black
Posted - 2011.03.12 11:20:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Straight Edged
Tengu can tank all lv 4 missions with only 3 medium slot. two with implants.


Is that right? mind putting the fittings inhere as i doubt you'll be doing any damage with that fit...

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.03.12 13:08:00 - [102]
 

What i mean is, tengu can tank with 3 slots dedicated to tanking,
And 8-9 slots dedicated to gank/mission completion time increasing mods.

Dawn Black
Posted - 2011.03.12 13:24:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Dawn Black on 12/03/2011 13:27:04
K yeah well i was referring to an unprobable tengu able to do all lvl 4's... so far after fiddling with EFT there is no way to do that.

>> well have to correct myself.. actually did mange to throw a fit together


AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.13 14:54:00 - [104]
 

the tengu only needs
Pithum C medium/ pithii small booster
RF Afterburner
Invul field II/ pith A photon field

to tank all acceptable missions, which is 3 medium slots.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2011.03.14 00:25:00 - [105]
 

wouldn't a machariel with mwd fit be faster than tengu for blitzing?


also, ab + small boster + invul is all a tnegu needs to tank.


AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.14 01:20:00 - [106]
 

It depends.

Tengu is faster in certain missions, especially one's with very high natural isk/hour

Machariel on the other hand is good in lots-of-ships missions, like silence the informant and angel extravaganza, which has low natural isk/hour.

The game plan, is to reject low natural isk/hour mission (look at the excel in the first page, most missions are less then 10 minutes) , which i call the top-50%-acceptable-missions , which is where the tengu excels

The weakness of the mach compared to the tengu is the following.

Damage projection. the mach is not able to project damage. Projection lets tengu finish assault in 5min, blockade in 6min, damsel in 5min , smash the supplier 4min etc

Drone reliance

Locking time.

Unprobeability and agility.

Sure, the mach scores 1000+ dps at 2km, but this is a non-feasable strategy. also, the dps drops to half outside drone range, and 0 after 75km.

While the tengu retains 700+ at 115-130km. "mission flight time" is an issue, but it is easily mitigated by hugging the mission completion trigger.

Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.14 05:18:00 - [107]
 

basically you're very good at trading.

I wonder though - why mission at all - just buy the LP points of of other missioneers.

Have 5-10 reliable people that mission for you - give em tags, money, get BPC in return.

Instead of wasting hours and hours of real life time - come in - do your trades - 1 hour later you've done the work of 10 hours of missioning.

And since you rotate much more LP your per week revenues don't go down, even though you "pay" your workforce.

Then train 10 people to buy LP, and have 100 missioneers work for you.

I mean why do the dirty work, right?

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.15 05:57:00 - [108]
 

i always use lowest-sell-order-with-significant-size (LSOWSS), by using LSOWSS, i will get the minimum price i should enter the market to maximise my lp output.

secondly, i dont see at all how trading ONLY makes more isk and volume then trading WHILE missioning.

Dawn Black
Posted - 2011.03.15 12:05:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Dawn Black on 15/03/2011 12:06:02
Originally by: AristotleOnassis
the tengu only needs
Pithum C medium/ pithii small booster
RF Afterburner
Invul field II/ pith A photon field

to tank all acceptable missions, which is 3 medium slots.


Hmm.. let me see. to make the tengu unprobable with 3 mid slots free you need to use CN heavy launchers...

3 slots, pithum c-medium and gist x-photon/inv... give aroun 310-340 defense capability... And that is with ALL needed skills to 5. Last time i checked that is no where enough to tank all lvl 4's

so looking forward to seeing your tengu fitting.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2011.03.15 12:16:00 - [110]
 

My tengu tanks 194 dps or something and does every lvl 4 just fine, why you would need more on a tengu is beyond me.... t2 launchers work just fine too, don't see why you wouldn't use them.



Dawn Black
Posted - 2011.03.15 13:34:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: adriaans
My tengu tanks 194 dps or something and does every lvl 4 just fine, why you would need more on a tengu is beyond me.... t2 launchers work just fine too, don't see why you wouldn't use them.





Let's hope you never ever get webbed then.

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.15 14:32:00 - [112]
 

always shoot aggrod elite frigs as your 3rd/4th alvo in any mission. You will find them to be instapopped/take 1k damage for no reason from fury missiles.

Dawn Black
Posted - 2011.03.15 14:43:00 - [113]
 

tbh have hardly ever seen them instapop.. usually takes up to 3 volleys... this is with perfect missile skills btw AND some implants.. but nvm.. risking a 1+ bil ship with a tank that can barely hold, leave no room for 1 sec of not paying attention doesn't sound like a good thing anyways.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.15 15:12:00 - [114]
 

Quote:
Machariel on the other hand is good in lots-of-ships missions, like silence the informant and angel extravaganza, which has low natural isk/hour.


Depending on both your skills and the agent's quality and location.

There's 3 variables there.

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.15 15:36:00 - [115]
 

ceterus paribus

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.15 20:55:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: AristotleOnassis
ceterus paribus


So you have to get every variable in your favor to generate as much isk as you claim., and as you said, all things equal...

However, the real lesson here is that only Indiana Jones makes EVERY saving throw. Not you, sorry mate.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.15 21:39:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Dawn Black
Originally by: adriaans
My tengu tanks 194 dps or something and does every lvl 4 just fine, why you would need more on a tengu is beyond me.... t2 launchers work just fine too, don't see why you wouldn't use them.





Let's hope you never ever get webbed then.


ab tengu is faster than webbing frigs. well their non mwd speed at least, and they turn their mwds off well out of webrange, so effectively you shouldn't get webbed. and even if you do get webbed the bit of tank you do have should easily last long enough to kill the webbing frig.

spider drones are the only real threat, and well, they are pretty rare.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2011.03.15 21:40:00 - [118]
 

tbh most of the time I don't even use the shield booster, the AB tanks everything, webbers are 1-2 volleyed just fine. and even 2-3 webbers and it's still fine, only spider drones and 5-6 webbers means you need a tank.

manual flying with high transversal combined with high speed and low sig radious is all thats needed.


AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.16 00:13:00 - [119]
 

Quote:
So you have to get every variable in your favor to generate as much isk as you claim., and as you said, all things equal...



Are you saying that someone with caldari offensive subsystem I should make as much isk as i do?

:) That only adds complexity. My point is to only say , its easy to hit 200, even 500m isk/hour as long as you long for it.

If your skill is subpar, no social skills, cant manufacture items, and no trade skills, thats for you to improve on. Not for me to discount on my calculations of my isk/hour.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.16 01:19:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 16/03/2011 01:19:46
Originally by: AristotleOnassis
Quote:
So you have to get every variable in your favor to generate as much isk as you claim., and as you said, all things equal...



Are you saying that someone with caldari offensive subsystem I should make as much isk as i do?

:) That only adds complexity. My point is to only say , its easy to hit 200, even 500m isk/hour as long as you long for it.

If your skill is subpar, no social skills, cant manufacture items, and no trade skills, thats for you to improve on. Not for me to discount on my calculations of my isk/hour.


What I am saying is that you do not control all of the variables that contribute to making the maximum amount of money over time. Therefore "longing" has nothing to do with being able to sustain your money to time ratio.



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