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blankseplocked Update: 245.7m effective isk/hour Mission running.
 
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Holdout
Posted - 2011.03.07 14:32:00 - [31]
 

This thread is like the Inception of trolling imo.



dodixiehereicome
Posted - 2011.03.07 19:58:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: AristotleOnassis

Gone berserk is a simple shoot-the-trigger. This shoudnt take more then 4-5 minutes.
Zazzmatazz and stop thief is still 3 minutes even alone. (altho because of eve time, 3 minutes means anything between 2 minutes 1 second to 3 minutes 59 seconds)

The difference will probably stem from tengu warping 50% faster, and alligning within 4 seconds.


But you said you were using a Tengu with the warp speed subsystem when you posted on Frozean, I don't think you were clearing the missions before and 50% in improvement is quite a lot when skills aren't going to make a huge difference in those missions.

Nomad Vherokic
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.07 20:14:00 - [33]
 

I make 750m per second by selling 2 plexes... This is a game, game supposedly = fun... If you are really bothered about this, then go play Excel, maybe fleet up with an accountant.

If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals. And if it's a troll thread, then +1, you rock oh mr internet troller of awesome, and my small furry animal awaits your pleasure...

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.07 22:15:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: pussnheels
no offense but is running missions with a stopwatch and a spreadsheet really that much fun


I find the occasional bout of mission running fun. and seeing the wallet go up always gives me good feelings ugh

Originally by: Nomad Vherokic
I make 750m per second by selling 2 plexes... This is a game, game supposedly = fun... If you are really bothered about this, then go play Excel, maybe fleet up with an accountant.

If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals. And if it's a troll thread, then +1, you rock oh mr internet troller of awesome, and my small furry animal awaits your pleasure...


some people don't have the disposable income to do such, or find the whole rmt to be immoral.

and I really doubt it is a troll thread as the whole mission completion time seems pretty inline with what I can do, add in good lp conversion and lp boost due to lowsec agents and nothing looks out of line.

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.07 22:27:00 - [35]
 

Quote:
But you said you were using a Tengu with the warp speed subsystem when you posted on Frozean, I don't think you were clearing the missions before and 50% in improvement is quite a lot when skills aren't going to make a huge difference in those missions.


look at the difference in bounty in my ex and current spreadsheet.

I probably was battleship-trigger-happy.

I rarely shoot what i dont need to anymore.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.07 22:50:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: AristotleOnassis
Edited by: AristotleOnassis on 06/03/2011 12:59:32

Hello, this is a continuation from
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1368512

I think ive reached the peak of what a single ship could earn solo by itself. I still try to do research from time to time, but its difficult to improve without spending billions for so little.

Only one ship is used : Tengu

Anyways, my new isk/hour chart
Isk/hour :
153m isk/hour at 1K isk/lp - Liquidate Infinite LP / week
246m isk/hour at 2K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week
338m isk/hour at 3K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 10-20m LP / week
430m isk/hour at 4K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 5-10m LP / week
522m isk/hour at 5K isk/lp - Liquidate Max 2-3m LP / week

This is my excel snapshot for completion time and isk
http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg97/2688/31386603.jpg

The following image shows how Completion time is calculated
First raw data is picked. For example.

This is my Data source, from "Standings" in char sheet
http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg156/3771/1620110306115017.jpg

After obtaining enough raw data (in my case, i got around 120 simultaneous equations, with more then 800 missions in my sample space) , I used Solver, to solve for mission completion time, to minimize the variance of completion time.

My average completion time is 6.4 minutes , the variance is plus minus 0.07 minutes.

Average time spent traveling/accepting mission/rejecting mission/jumping gates/undocking is 4.2 minutes.
Average time shooting is 2.2 minutes per mission. which is on average 35-40 missiles are shot per mission.





Now do it in real time and you'll be my hero.

until them my rofl copter swooshes.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.08 00:05:00 - [37]
 

Two things :
- You might want to stick a low-sec missioning title on this for clarity.
- The screenshot shows 10 missions completed, not 11.

dodixiehereicome
Posted - 2011.03.08 00:53:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Nomad Vherokic
I make 750m per second by selling 2 plexes... This is a game, game supposedly = fun... If you are really bothered about this, then go play Excel, maybe fleet up with an accountant.



You earn $126,000/hour? Very impressive, I think you win.

Originally by: AristotleOnassis

look at the difference in bounty in my ex and current spreadsheet.

I probably was battleship-trigger-happy.

I rarely shoot what i dont need to anymore.


That's not it because the differences in bounty are less than 100k between the two spreadsheets for the missions I looked at, it's just you've cut down the time by half doing the same mission in the same way in likely a very similar ship.

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.08 04:05:00 - [39]
 

please read
http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg156/3771/1620110306115017.jpg

all my timings are done in real time.

About gone berserk, even a lone mission is easily done in 5 minutes.

Sturmwolke, Cargo delivery is on the next page, which could not fit in the same page (look at the time stamps)

The reason this happens, is to minimize standing lost, You reject missions as soon as you get a bad mission. So most of the time, you will get
Accept Accept Accept Accept
or
Accept Accept Reject Reject Accept Reject Accept,
Where you reject as soon as possible when you get a non-acceptable mission.

This is important, as you need to keep your station standing to more then negative two.

Christmassacree
Posted - 2011.03.08 06:11:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Christmassacree on 08/03/2011 06:11:43
What standings , which corp are needed and in which system are you missioning in ??

Miss Xoco
Minmatar
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 07:45:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18
I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true.

2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find. Very Happy

Christmassacree
Posted - 2011.03.08 08:06:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Miss Xoco
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18
I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true.

2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find. Very Happy


I thought this guy was full of crap, when i saw his last topic, but when i had some experience and achieved his isk/hr, i believed. Now i know that this thread is not full of **** at all, but i don't currently have tengu to test it out.

Burnharder
Posted - 2011.03.08 08:27:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Christmassacree
Originally by: Miss Xoco
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18
I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true.

2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find. Very Happy


I thought this guy was full of crap, when i saw his last topic, but when i had some experience and achieved his isk/hr, i believed. Now i know that this thread is not full of **** at all, but i don't currently have tengu to test it out.



Alt posting in your own thread ftl. Rolling Eyes

Starshi
Posted - 2011.03.08 08:48:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Burnharder
Originally by: Christmassacree
Originally by: Miss Xoco
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 07:45:18
I make 600M ISK a hour doing missions, but only in my dreams. However, someone else will make my dreams come true.

2.2 min shooting time? Yeah i always dream about. Maybe i forgot to put a Gyrostab in every single low slot i can find. Very Happy


I thought this guy was full of crap, when i saw his last topic, but when i had some experience and achieved his isk/hr, i believed. Now i know that this thread is not full of **** at all, but i don't currently have tengu to test it out.



Alt posting in your own thread ftl. Rolling Eyes


Ok, here is my main :P

Miss Xoco
Minmatar
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2011.03.08 09:56:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 09:56:31
Could the people please stop always praising the Tengu? There is many other capable ships such as Loki, Vagur, Machariel, Nightmare and more.

As for your awesome ISK gathering skill, youre welcome to party up with me and show it in front of my eyes. YARRRR!!

Christmassacree
Posted - 2011.03.08 11:27:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Christmassacree on 08/03/2011 11:27:40
Originally by: Miss Xoco
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 09:56:31
Could the people please stop always praising the Tengu? There is many other capable ships such as Loki, Vagur, Machariel, Nightmare and more.

As for your awesome ISK gathering skill, youre welcome to party up with me and show it in front of my eyes. YARRRR!!


The problem of this game is that it's a "lazy" game- most of the people are just lazy to do test out some stuff and they are just waiting to get spoonfed. Can't you just go out and try it, like i did ? Look at the charts, and try to match his mission completion times.


I've never flew a tengu, but i can tell you things, that are 100% true - you can adjust the tengu according to your needs. The tengu is a cruiser class with a lot of damage compared to the other cruiser-class ships. The idea of this topic is to sort out missions where tengu excels the other uber missioning ships. Those missons are about warp, align and speed - stats at which tengu can vastly outperform your favourite vargur, machariel, golem and so on, missions which are pre-calculated as the best isk/hr and lp/hr and in which you can abuse those warp, align and speed statistics.


This is why i love EVE - you have to think and make a lot of calculations if you want to make something good. I have friends that have characters since 2004 and currently they ask me for tips when they mission and i'm playing only for 4 months. The thing is that when i do something, i do it right, i reasearch, make calculations, test out in-game.


So open your spreadsheets, your calculator and most importantly - grab your guns in-game and you will get results :)

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.08 12:10:00 - [47]
 

Quote:
youre welcome to party up with me


Sure, as long as you join my guild, i will let you do quests with me.

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.03.08 13:21:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: AristotleOnassis
Quote:
youre welcome to party up with me


Sure, as long as you join my guild, i will let you do quests with me.


ibte

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:30:00 - [49]
 

Real time means you sat down at noon and started eve and at 1pm had +237m in your account.


Larry C
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:49:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Nomad Vherokic
If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals.


He's already stated that he has no interest in women. So furry animals will have to do, I guess.

Zophos Akratos
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.03.08 16:10:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Zophos Akratos on 08/03/2011 16:10:53
Originally by: Larry C
Originally by: Nomad Vherokic
If this isn't a troll thread, then seriously you need to discover women and/or small furry animals.


He's already stated that he has no interest in women. So furry animals will have to do, I guess.


Or men? That's more obvious then furry animals imo:-/.

Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-).

Nina Mercedez
Posted - 2011.03.08 17:15:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Nina Mercedez on 08/03/2011 17:15:24
Originally by: Zophos Akratos
Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-).


He was previously claiming 400m/hr (post 15). I wonder what happened.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:01:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Edited by: Nina Mercedez on 08/03/2011 17:15:24
Originally by: Zophos Akratos
Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-).


He was previously claiming 400m/hr (post 15). I wonder what happened.


Busted.


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:06:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Christmassacree
Edited by: Christmassacree on 08/03/2011 06:11:43
What standings , which corp are needed and in which system are you missioning in ??


likely he is going for ministry of war in Hophib, amarr navy in yahyerer, or ammatar fleet in assah/dysa/aranir

all lowsecs with multiple agents all lv4q20 combats.

Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Edited by: Nina Mercedez on 08/03/2011 17:15:24
Originally by: Zophos Akratos
Edit: Impressive ISK/hour btw, can't tell if it's really realistic to earn _that_ much, but even if it's half the amount you're claiming to earn, it's still really nice imo:-).


He was previously claiming 400m/hr (post 15). I wonder what happened.


he still claims that to some extent, even as much as 522m/hr

Originally by: Miss Xoco
Edited by: Miss Xoco on 08/03/2011 09:56:31
Could the people please stop always praising the Tengu? There is many other capable ships such as Loki, Vagur, Machariel, Nightmare and more.

As for your awesome ISK gathering skill, youre welcome to party up with me and show it in front of my eyes. YARRRR!!

yes there are other capable ships, but there are some limits on their use in low/null sec. as soon as someone launches probes you are out of business till they get bored.

and gone berserk lasts about 40 volleys, a few secs of lock time, plus travel time. a pretty in and out quick mission, and there are a bunch of missions that go even quicker.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:12:00 - [55]
 

Quote:
he still claims that to some extent, even as much as 522m/hr


The point then being, and still being, LOL. Screens or it didn't happen then, screens or it didn't happen now.

Its not that hard to comprehend. It would take 1 hour of time to prove, yet he has invested much more than an hour in these threads.

Anyway you guys have fun making money doing lolsec missions. When I apply the same methodology to calculating WH income it becomes obvious I make several billion an hour and am wasting time here. Thanks for the spreadsheet. It reminds me of the NIST report.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:15:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 08/03/2011 18:15:55
since i double posted also double my income estimates please and thank you.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.03.08 18:51:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
he still claims that to some extent, even as much as 522m/hr


The point then being, and still being, LOL. Screens or it didn't happen then, screens or it didn't happen now.

Its not that hard to comprehend. It would take 1 hour of time to prove, yet he has invested much more than an hour in these threads.

Anyway you guys have fun making money doing lolsec missions. When I apply the same methodology to calculating WH income it becomes obvious I make several billion an hour and am wasting time here. Thanks for the spreadsheet. It reminds me of the NIST report.


you are working with a different set of assumptions and coming up with a different outcome.

I would assume a typical play session consists of
log in
take missions leave station
in space deliver jobs, create courier contracts, and create contracts for goods already in trade hubs and do more missions
dock, exchange lp, start jobs
log out.

no you didn't make x million in that one hour, but the bounties and LP you generated during that one hour are still worth x million. and you end up making x million for that hour of effort, so we say you made x million per hour.

to compare activities you have to break them down into income and time periods. isk/hour is convenient. we could just as well do isk/week, but that wouldn't really show how much effort was put in. If I log in for a few hours each week and make a few billion trading how does that compare to someone logging 60 hours of running level fours? there will be large variances in play time and efficiencies between players it is just imo a less accurate measure.

if your values and methods of computation are better feel free to share them.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.08 19:03:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 08/03/2011 19:04:11
Quote:
you are working with a different set of assumptions and coming up with a different outcome.


I was being sarcastic right there. I know how to use the scientific method and I know how to recognize when someone has not. I also understand the difference between theory and application.

Quote:
to compare activities you have to break them down into income and time periods.


And that's what I asked for last thread he made, he did not comply, and thats pretty much that.

AristotleOnassis
Posted - 2011.03.09 05:18:00 - [59]
 

You are not quite right cipher. You are trying to downplay the isk obtained from LP.

In fact, 1 isk from LP is worth more then 1 isk from bounty, due to depreciation being an isk faucet, but thats a different matter altogether.


The isk/hour that i portraid is the average isk/hour.
Afterall, if i mission run, sometimes i will get more, sometimes i will get less, however it will converge to the average isk/hour

Now, lets say, you are trying to proof that, because of delayed Isk from LP, i should get less.

However, look at it this way. Lets say i get A isk/hour from bounty/reward and B isk/hour from LP
Average isk/hour is A+B.
Lets say it takes 1 week for me to liquidate 2 million LP

In the first week(n=1), i get only A isk/hour.
In the second week(n=2), i get A+B isk/hour (liquidated week 1 LP)
In the third week(n=3), i get A+B isk/hour (liquidated week 2 LP)
etc.

So if i average out my isk/hour for all n, you will find that
for n= the nth week, and the a(n), the average for the nth week,

For any number , N, less then A+B that you choose, i can always find A, such that for all N<a(n) when n>A
which in layman term means, say A+B is 300m isk/hour, and A=50 isk/hour.
No matter what number under 300m isk/hour that you choose, I can always find the number of weeks i need to mission run , so that my isk/hour is MORE then the number you choose.

For example, you think i make only 270m isk/hour.
All i have to do is choose, "mission run for 10 days", and i have obtained more then 270m isk/hour.
Same if you choose i make only 299.999999999m isk/hour instead of 300m isk/hour.
Then all i have to do is "mission run for 1000++ days", and i have obtained more then 299.999999999m isk/hour

The exact calculation would be, f(n) being average isk/hour
f(n)= A + (n-1)*B/n
as n tends to infinite, we break down the equation.
(n-1)*(B)/n = B*n/n-B/n = B-(B/n).

f(n) = A+B-(B/n)
As n tends to invite, B/n tends to zero
Hence f(n from 0 to infinite) is A+B.

Moreover, at the final day, i could earn all my LP isk back at 0 time (using 50-contracts toon)

Therefore, to conclude, i must have made on average 300m isk/hour, or A+B isk/hour and nothing less.
Delayed isk is insignificant as long as you mission run long enough.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.09 06:37:00 - [60]
 

OP, post #59 was very painful to read.
There are too many loose ends (imo), do not expect the audience to assume - state explicitly.

If any idea, no matter how great cannot be broken down for a child (or in the forum context - a wider audience), then it is useless for all intents and purposes. You'll recognise what this means if you had read M.Kaku or even R. Feynman.

The gist for post #59, from my perspective, is a mathematical postulation that more less says "extra time converting the LPs is negligible over time as you continue the same low-sec missioning activity". However, keep in mind, a simple postulation or theory, regardless whether it is correct or not - is not enough.

Lookup how data is presented in Kerfira or even Garbad the Weak older threads.
Not perfect, but certainly less controversial as most of it are solid.

In summary, reform your arguments if you expect any meaningful discussions, else it'll get infested with trolls.


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