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Eruheran
Posted - 2011.03.03 02:12:00 - [1]
 

Me and my buddies have been tryna get going with PvP for a while now, we can all use t2 small guns and most t1 ships up to BS. We've been trying a few roams in cheap (less than 10mil)t1 cruisers and t1 frigates but it usually ends quite quickly as soon as we get a GCC and go near a gate. We fly in small gangs of 3-4 ships in regular lowsec systems (0.4-0.1). Are we best taking a scanning ship and trying to catch people ratting or running plexes? The ships we;ve been using are; Thorax's, Rupture's, Celestis', Omen's and Maller's. And a few Punishers and Rifters as well.
So does anyone have any advice or tips that can help turn us from meek "sentry gun fodder" types into something far less lame?


Thank's in advance, Eruheran

Hack Harrison
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.03 02:54:00 - [2]
 

Don't go gcc on gate??? Rolling Eyes

Posting Alt101
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.03.03 03:51:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Posting Alt101 on 03/03/2011 04:22:30
Edited by: Posting Alt101 on 03/03/2011 04:09:20
2 options that might be worth trying.

1. Switch to bc hulls. I know it's not in the price range you
specified, but it's the most common, successful camps that
I've seen and been a part of in game.


2. I don't honestly know if this will work. Get a tanky
cruiser such as a moa. Tank it as much as you can. 1
pilot to fly an Osprey (using Caldari examples here) to
rep the moa. Moa shoots gate guns and get's repped by
Osprey (I think with one of the most recent patches the
gate guns no longer target remote repping, but I'm not
positive about this).

This is my best guess as a possible camp set up for cruisers. It's the same idea that a lot of bc camps use. Maybe try the following set up?

2 tanked Moa's with face melting blastersTwisted Evil +mwd and to get close enough 1 with a scram (I'd say try 1 webbed/1 with a scram, but experiment with tank before you drop another mid slot for a web). Have the Moa w/out the scram hold gate gun aggro the longest obviously.
1 repping osprey
2 condors for tackling (1 with a warp disrupter)

Used the cheapest route I can imagine.

Get on gate and have the moas shoot the the billboards and draw gcc aggro from the gate guns. Have the two moas swap aggro to ensure that the condors don't get targeted. (the gate guns rotate fire periodically so have the moas try to control who is targeted by firing separately at the gate guns) When the gate fires, condors tackle, moa keeps firing at the gun while attacking target. I'm not positive the tank can hold up or aggro can be completely controlled this is all guess work as I've never worried about the gate gun damage in a bc (we generally had enough tank). I may try this within the next few days just for curiosities sake.

Edited because it's late for me and I started repeating myself in a manner that made little sense. I do recommend you read about gate gun aggro though, I'm sure others have better thoughts on how to explain how to control it better than I.

Edit #2 Your moas should have 1 gun separated from the group to keep firing on the gate guns. Durpadurpa. Ok, bed time for me.

Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears
Posted - 2011.03.03 07:04:00 - [4]
 

Actually the best and fastest way in my opinion to get pvp quickly is to just take out a frig and fly like crazy through the systems and then in one system you jump through all the belts looking for prey. Basically the idea is the speed. When you are roaming people DO KNOW where you are. They just looking at the intel channel and seeing how you progress. They key with speeding through certain systems is that a) reaction time b) they start thinking you are only passing through.

Or just head out to those pirate infested bottlenecks and get into trouble instantly :)

Taurean Eltanin
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.03.03 12:46:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Taurean Eltanin on 03/03/2011 12:55:17
What is it that you are trying to achieve? Without a clear destination, you are far less likely to arrive.

(PS. I'm also fairly new to pvp, so take what I say with a grain of salt.)

1) Are you looking to become dangerous pvp pilots, or do you just want loads of kills (because they are not the same thing)?

Becoming a skilled pvp pilot takes a long time. The best way to learn is to fly solo and pick your fights - wingmates are a crutch when you are learning, and it will take you longer to become truly dangerous.

If you just want kills, then keep flying as a group, and learn to work (and fit your ships) as a team. While you will individually be less dangerous, your numbers and teamwork will actually make finding and securing kills easier.

2) What class of ship do you intend to fly, long term, in pvp?

Get 20 or so T1 versions of that ship, and practice fitting and flying them. Keeping costs down is good, but the fastest way to get good at flying battle cruisers (for example) is actually flying battle cruisers.

3) Are you going to be full-time pvp pilots, and making your money from pvp, or are you just part-time pirates, able to support your pvp hobby with your pve income?

If you plan of full-time pvp careers you need to take a long, hard look at your abilities, ambitions, and current effort. The sustainability and cost effectiveness of your ships, strategies and fittings will become one of your most important considerations.

The fact that you could not be bothered to learn the gate aggression rules before being blown up suggests that you lack the time or motivation to be career pvp'rs. If that bothers you, you need to significantly up your game.

On the other hand, if pvp is your hobby, you have more options. With a steady income stream you can afford to fly ships that are more powerful, but less cost effective.

4) Where do you intend to be pvp active (RvB, FW, low sec piracy, etc)?

Each requires different skills and tactics (although there is plenty of obvious overlap). Finding someone willing to teach you is always a plus. Otherwise, you will need to teach yourselves, which requires a great deal more motivation and commitment.

Once you can answer those questions, more specific advice can be offered.

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.03.03 16:32:00 - [6]
 

If you join Faction Warfare (don't know if that interests you or not) gate gun issues go away when fighting your FW opponents. So you can take out those frigate/cruiser gangs without worrying about sentry fire.

Another option is to go out to NPC null-sec and see what kind of trouble you can scare up, but I'm not sure how competitive T1 frig/Cruiser gangs would be out there.

Regardless, good luck. The first obstacle to PvP is putting your ships in harms way in the first place, so you've already demonstrated you can do that. Everything else will come to you in time.

equincu ocha
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.03.03 17:41:00 - [7]
 

Forget what Posting Alt101 said about gate fire, it's not correct and will get you killed.

1. Don't give away the fact that you are in a gang, send one guy in first to scout/tackle, don't spike local until you have a target tackled
2. If you must fight on a gate get your target to agress first, that way your corp will be able to retaliate without the sentries, and you will have at least 60 seconds before he can jump (this is assuming you are all in the same corp and not pirate or gcc, rules are different then)
3. Keep moving, the longer you hang around the better chance of a larger gang finding you
4. Don't get discouraged if you go a while without a good target, lowsec is full of long tracks of deserted space, keep at it, you will eventually find a good area to roam.
5.Know your ship, then learn your fleet mates ships, how fast they are, what effective ranges they work at, how good of a tank they have, what kind of damage they dish out, learn everything you can about them, and once you are done with that, learn about all the other pvp ships out there, what fittings are most common, and so on. This is perhaps the most important aspect of pvp.

Hope it helps, although it's stuff you already know..... right ?

Aznwithbeard
Minmatar
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.03.03 20:35:00 - [8]
 

pretty much what eqin said, just a few other points you should try to remember

using ur d-scan will help you find targets off gate/station, learn how to use it effectively
do NOT gcc on a gate (in a cruiser) unless its a gank ( untanked hauler, etc) and gtfo asap.
Try to set up a scout ( frigate) that tells u number of ppl in local, whats on scan, whats on the gate, if anyone is GCC or criminal, etc)
Have one guy FC (lead) the gang. This guy should be telling you where to go, who to shoot at first, when ur gtfo, and if he needs secondary point on another ship (amongst other things)

If you really are completely green, practice amongst yourselves for various weaknesses in your tank, weaknessess in their tank.... etc. Get to know what you are flying, and what you are trying to kill.

Playfighting (down to hull, not killing them) seems kinda dumb but it lets you see what your ship is capable of, and having friends watch as you fight may help if they can offer suggestions on how to get better

make sure your ship is fit competently. there are a lot of websites with fits for various ships on the internet. Check them out, test them first. Nothing worse then taking an awesome cruiser like the rupture, and losing it because your fit was bad.


theres probably more, but my brain hurts. ^^ this and what quin said should get you started.


Eruheran
Posted - 2011.03.04 01:31:00 - [9]
 

Thanks a lot for the quick and helpful responses guys, yeah I've now learned my lesson about the GCC and won't be going near gates til that timers down in future YARRRR!!

In answer to Taurean's question, I/we intend to become good PvP'ers and not just get easy kills, though they would be nice as well. And I was hoping to get into t2 frigates and cruisers soon because the tech 1 hulls just don't have the slots I want them to have Neutral
I'm not really into the idea of "gate camping" as such, though I don't mind engaging on gates as long as the sentry aren't shooting me. I prefer roaming a string of systems looking for targets, makes things more exciting hehe

I'll give all of your ideas a try and see which one works best for us.

Thanks Again, Eruheran

Taurean Eltanin
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.03.04 08:39:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Taurean Eltanin on 08/03/2011 19:57:05
Well, for what it is worth, you can check out my blog.

It's a record of my efforts to learn pvp so far. You may (or may not Rolling Eyes) find something useful in there for you.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.03.04 11:37:00 - [11]
 

Avoid fighting on gates like the plague. If you spend time in belts/planets, the fight will come to you. Just be aligned in case somebody decides to warp the kitchen sink in

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.03.04 18:22:00 - [12]
 

I'm no PVP Vet, but I'm not green either.
Your tactic needs to change, not your ships. 1st, get off the gates. 2nd, get your prey to come to you.

Go fishing w/ your mallers. Mallers are probably some of the best bait ships ever due to their high tanking ability.

Here's what I would do:
Get a maller, and fit it with the highest buffer tank you can. 1600mm tungstan plate and lots of armor resistances platings. Put some tackle gear in the mids. (I prefer 2 webs and a scam)
Put a few mining lasers in the high slots (and a few pvp lasers if u can fit em)
Set that maller in a lowsec belt and start mining. Wait for pvp'rs looking for an easy kill to find it mining. Trap em w/ your tackle, call in the troops and gank em. (o yea, have your crew sitting either in a safe spot or in the next system waiting for you to get engaged)

Aznwithbeard
Minmatar
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2011.03.04 19:00:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Aznwithbeard on 04/03/2011 19:00:27
Originally by: Eruheran
Thanks a lot for the quick and helpful responses guys, yeah I've now learned my lesson about the GCC and won't be going near gates til that timers down in future YARRRR!!

In answer to Taurean's question, I/we intend to become good PvP'ers and not just get easy kills, though they would be nice as well. And I was hoping to get into t2 frigates and cruisers soon because the tech 1 hulls just don't have the slots I want them to have Neutral
I'm not really into the idea of "gate camping" as such, though I don't mind engaging on gates as long as the sentry aren't shooting me. I prefer roaming a string of systems looking for targets, makes things more exciting hehe

I'll give all of your ideas a try and see which one works best for us.



Thanks Again, Eruheran


a little bit of friendly advice - people tend to try to get into t2 hulls WAYYYY sooner then they should, ( support skills should always come first), and once getting into those hulls, die in a fire because, while they can get into them, and undock in them, they cant fly them for **** and go BOOM. I rarely use t2 hulls (fleets, etc) and have a lot of fun in ruptures, cyclones, etc.

its a lot of fun destroying the t2 ships, but not that much fun to die in one. (i would imagine)

Vinya Az'riel
Posted - 2011.03.06 11:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: NinjaSpud
I'm no PVP Vet, but I'm not green either.
Your tactic needs to change, not your ships. 1st, get off the gates. 2nd, get your prey to come to you.

Go fishing w/ your mallers. Mallers are probably some of the best bait ships ever due to their high tanking ability.

Here's what I would do:
Get a maller, and fit it with the highest buffer tank you can. 1600mm tungstan plate and lots of armor resistances platings. Put some tackle gear in the mids. (I prefer 2 webs and a scam)
Put a few mining lasers in the high slots (and a few pvp lasers if u can fit em)
Set that maller in a lowsec belt and start mining. Wait for pvp'rs looking for an easy kill to find it mining. Trap em w/ your tackle, call in the troops and gank em. (o yea, have your crew sitting either in a safe spot or in the next system waiting for you to get engaged)



Every time I've seen a maller in lowsec or nullsec i sarcastically say in fleet: "Gawsh i sure hope this isn't a bait. *wink* *wink*" It is a good baitboat, but tad on the obvious side.


 

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