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PreZiDenT1
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:29:00 - [61]
 

Guy gets angry at the ganking aspect of EvE......


Joins 0rphanage.

Fearless M0F0
Incursion PWNAGE Asc
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:31:00 - [62]
 


Quote:
people just don't want to fight unless they have a gross advantage.


Just like in real life, working as intended.

There is something sick with human beings finding amusement at ganking the weak. Getting ganked sucks so you bring a bigger blob to ensure you have the last laugh.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:32:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: PreZiDenT1
Guy gets angry at the ganking aspect of EvE......


Joins 0rphanage.

Reminds me that i still want to see the The Orphanage movie. Anyone seen it?? Cool


ZenSun
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:35:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:09:47

Originally by: ZenSun
WoW --->

What you are asking is unrealistic and not practical at all, it will always be human nature to out-blob the opponent, no game mechanic can change this in a sandbox game without it becoming your regular MMO (in some respects).



Yea, well I disagree. I think it could be possible if enough creative and intelligent people worked on it. But then ofc there are so many unimaginative conformists like yourself who simply say it's not possible, WOW is that way and move on.



No you are just naive, sir. I am simply giving you the realistic punchline... you must be high if you think CCP fall under the characteristics of a 'creative and intelligent' group. The matter of the fact is, if you want 'fair' fights and game mechanics which auto-balance and benefit the underdog, then EvE wont be, and never has been, the game in which you are looking for. Unfair fights comes with a sandbox, why cant you get to grips with that? :P

Neamus
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:39:00 - [65]
 

I thought it was a fun thing to do, its pretty obvious really that there's no serious application of the Art Of War here.. But I am a fan of escapism, from the drudgery of my real life lol.

Anyway, I somehow seem to have offended your sensibilities. So, Mr Mysterious, I apologise.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:40:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: ZenSun
More stuff


They are smart enough to get your money Wink

ZenSun
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:44:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: ZenSun on 03/03/2011 14:45:13
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: ZenSun
More stuff


They are smart enough to get your money Wink



Yes... but... I am not the one thats trolling and whining about it, am I? I rather enjoy my time spent playing, so I have no problem giving them my, urm.. isk (not a dime from my pocket)Laughing

Effortless.


Qui Rune
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:49:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Qui Rune on 03/03/2011 14:50:20
Here's my solution:

1.Reduce the Security Limitations of Bomb Launchers to be used from .4 to Null

2.Create a requirement for Fleet Battle Kills such as a minimum of 25 or 50 Solo Kills before you can get credit for Fleet Kills: This could encourage more 1v1 engagements.

3. Revamp High Sec:
a. 1.0 to 0.8 = Leave alone
b. .7 to .5 = Limited or No concord involvement with cruiser class to frigate class engagements. (BC+ will still get Concorded as usual)
c. 0.4 to Null = Leave alone

Just my 0.2 ISK




Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:50:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:51:43

I will also add that only fools think that things cannot be improved overtime.

Anything can be improved upon with human effort and creativity, including EVE. However there will always be sheep that herd with the masses...so enjoy playing your "free and effortless game" along with the status quo that you are mindlessly supporting.


ZenSun
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:55:00 - [70]
 

Effortless = meant in the context of this thread failscading, not the gameplay.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.03.03 14:56:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
I will also add that only fools think that things cannot be improved overtime.

Anything can be improved upon with human effort and creativity, including EVE. However there will always be sheep that herd with the masses...so enjoy playing your "free and effortless game" along with the status quo that you are mindlessly supporting.

Sorry to say but you really could/should have known by now that the EVE forum community is the most ultraconservative of any existing game; sometimes I think if it was up to them we'd still be walking in animal skins and clubbing mammoths.

Razz


Zesoft
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:02:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:51:43

However there will always be sheep that herd with the masses...so enjoy playing your "free and effortless game" along with the status quo that you are mindlessly supporting.




Different =/= Better. I won't deny that there's a sheeple mindset in broad human society (Hint: it's somewhere in the low end 1/3rd of the IQ bell curve :P ), but try not to seem too much like a socially clueless introvert by casting stones at the imaginary sheep herd. Rolling Eyes

Vixisti
The Scope
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:07:00 - [73]
 

To the OP, the main reason people play Eve is fun believe it or not, where people find their fun is up to them. If you've been an alliance leader with 1000+ people under you and the most fun thing you can think of to do is to go griefing people, the problem lies with you and not the game.

Eve simulates some of the characteristics of real life in that more numbers is usually better whether it be in combat, trade, manufacturing etc. Why would this be any different in a sandbox type game like Eve?

If you want evenly matched games in an online pvp environment, go play team FPS, chess, or unplug from the internet and go and play a sport.

My preferred play style is to solo or roam in small gangs but I fully expect to get baited and blobbed sometimes and I don't moan about it either. I get my fun and the blobbers get theirs.


Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:35:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 15:39:25
Originally by: Zesoft
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 03/03/2011 14:51:43

However there will always be sheep that herd with the masses...so enjoy playing your "free and effortless game" along with the status quo that you are mindlessly supporting.




Different =/= Better. I won't deny that there's a sheeple mindset in broad human society (Hint: it's somewhere in the low end 1/3rd of the IQ bell curve :P ), but try not to seem too much like a socially clueless introvert by casting stones at the imaginary sheep herd. Rolling Eyes



So clarify? Are you stating that in your opinion EVE has reached it's peak of awesomeness and thus cannot be improved upon at this point? That it can only be made different?


What precisely are you trying to convey with regards to the subject matter of this thread?





@ Vixisti most of the people I talk to in game are "Searching for fun" and that compels them to continue playing. Most people in game are in the process of "Looking For" and "Planning For" fun not so much "Having fun". That in itself can be a strong draw to the game play, but it does not mean that we should all leave it at that and not consider what could potentially be better alternatives... does it?



Zesoft
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:40:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

So clarify? Are you stating that in your opinion EVE has reached it's peak of awesomeness and thus cannot be improved upon at this point? That it can only be made different?


What precisely are you trying to convey with regards to the subject matter of this thread?


No, I stated exactly what the words say. I find plenty of reason to address someone elsewhere when the reasoning seems to warrant it. In this case, I'm trying to help you seem less ignorant.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:42:00 - [76]
 

One thing that constantly amazes me about EvE is the emphasis placed on sov warefare, yet unless you are directly involved with that, you have no clue what's going on in nullsec unless you scrutinize the forums and use outside resources.

There should be an in-game sov map updated in real time. The in-game news should revolve around what's going on in nullsec, and include any significant battles that take place elsewhere in the game.

Folks complain that PvP is insignificant, and this might be one reason why. To me, your average highsec player should be able to get a good idea of who owns what and what's going on in nullsec using in-game resources.

Laura Kingsley
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:45:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
most of the people I talk to in game are "Searching for fun" and that compels them to continue playing. Most people in game are in the process of "Looking For" and "Planning For" fun not so much "Having fun". That in itself can be a strong draw to the game play, but it does not mean that we should all leave it at that and not consider what could potentially be better alternatives... does it?


Couldn't agree more ...

Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
Posted - 2011.03.03 16:17:00 - [78]
 

To the OP, well written post and props to the majority of you for not dragging it down to the usual slanging match ....


I gotta say, I found the fun.

It was doing everything one can do in Eve with people you enjoy spending time with. Whether that includes PvP or not

Continue...

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.03.03 16:27:00 - [79]
 

Have you run high sec anomalies?

Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
Posted - 2011.03.03 16:37:00 - [80]
 

<- agree with OP.

DonHel
Gallente
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2011.03.03 16:55:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Laura Kingsley
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
most of the people I talk to in game are "Searching for fun" and that compels them to continue playing. Most people in game are in the process of "Looking For" and "Planning For" fun not so much "Having fun". That in itself can be a strong draw to the game play, but it does not mean that we should all leave it at that and not consider what could potentially be better alternatives... does it?


Couldn't agree more ...


that describes me perfectly lol

Matroxion
Gallente
Chickens with an Attitude
Posted - 2011.03.03 17:05:00 - [82]
 

All I know is when I started with this game back in '05 PVP was different from now.
And with that I don't mean the fact that its changed because other ships came around and stuff (eventhough I will talk about SC's a bit down), I mean ppl have changed. Like the OP says its all about the blob now a days.

Back in the day ppl would just go about and fight ppl for fun... yes I said it: for fun, who the heck cares if you lose, just have fun.
Now its only about: win win win. A totally different mindset.

I have had enough kills through the years and I have seen pvp change since then and I don't like it. I love the solo/small gang pvp, but everywhere you go now you're most likely to find a blob.

Now ppl might bring forth the addition of Super Capital sized ships as an excuse for bringing the big blob, but thats just not right.
I only do lowsec pvp so those ships should have never come past me on the battlefield, and they haven't, yet blobs keep comming my way.
Somehow everyone needs to be "prepaired" for the event that they show up, I dunno but you CAN run you know, and go look for a smaller gang to fight a much cooler fight with.

Ofcourse this does not apply to 0.0 at all, but then again, thats a player contested world so thats normal.
Lowsec (and to some extend highsec aswell) pvp should not have changed this dramaticly imo.
I used to go out in T1 cruisers just to have a nice fight, now....well I can still go out and I occasionally do, but finding a nice (aka fun and partly fair) fight is almost not done (read: 9/10 times you get blobbed).

About killmails needing to be removed because they might somehow be the root of the problem (or partially anyway), thats just utter bs, killmails have always been in game and, like I stated before, pvp used to be totally different and fun.

So for me the problem boils down to: safety before fun, ppl don't wanna have fun anymore.

Just my (somewhat long) 2 cents.

-Matroxion

Ps. for those looking up my kb stats (use griefwatch), yes I have been inactive in the pvp department for the better of a year now, but I keep track of pvp anyway.

Iria Vexille
Posted - 2011.03.03 17:57:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 02/03/2011 22:56:57

. . .



No matter where I was, what I was doing or what I was trying to accomplish in game, there was one constant . . . people just don't want to fight unless they have a gross advantage.

. . .





Despite you being a vet, you seem to lack the "vet" status in real life. What I am talking about is not getting aged, which directly relates to the lifetime of your biological shell, no, I talk about you getting enough wisdom and knowledge in real life to understand what "life" means.

It means, to survive. Since, we, humans, are determined in our deepest within to stay alive and live for as if nothing else matters we dont engage in "fair" combat. Nature does not engage in fair combat and nature tought us this lesson long ago, that fair, is weak and thus we are not weak but strong. Humans engage always as a group, be it in combat, in social life or in anything else. If we come to the point to risk something, we do either of the following. We become one of the mass and do it together, as together we are strong (Legion*). We do it not at all because there is no group that shares my interests and thus the idea is not necessary for life to go on. Or we lack the numbers at the moment but know that with time we gain these numbers to engage for said goal.

Thats what we as humans learned from nature and which besides all gameplay or definition of a sandbox will direct our actions.


Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.03.03 18:10:00 - [84]
 

With the new forums I could just hit the "like" button.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.03.03 18:12:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/03/2011 18:14:30
Originally by: Iria Vexille
Since, we, humans, are determined in our deepest within to stay alive and live for as if nothing else matters we dont engage in "fair" combat.


Sure. As if we don't play games like chess or monopoly or play tennis or whatever other game where the odds are perfectly 50/50 to start with and only player skill determines the outcome.

You're confusing things, EVE isn't real life. EVE is a game.

Waylan Yutani
Gallente
Order of the Seraphim
Posted - 2011.03.03 19:14:00 - [86]
 

for true awesomeness, try out solo pvp'ing - target the pirates for maximum fun. Im hopelessly addicted to the rush of the fight as being primaried is guarenteed :)

My destiny ? - To rid eve of every goddamn pirate i come across Wink


Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.03.04 15:37:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Add arena pvp where you can only field ships / mods that you purchase yourself. Use alliance tournament rules and automate it.

Seriously, I don't know why they haven't added this..


because it'd be a waste of development time and resources that could go towards, y'know, actually fixing PvP issues

instanced arena pvp is not the solution, it just deepens the problem with open world PvP



How is it a waste? You know whats a gigantic waste of my time? Roaming 2-3 hours in low sec looking for a fight and never finding one where the odds aren't overwhelmingly in someone elses favor. I spend the majority of my time in W-space/high sec but one week I decided to roam 2-3 hours a day through FW infested low sec a legion and see if I could find a fight.

I found ONE fight and that one fight ended up being a 2v1 (legion vs tengu+drake) where I end up getting jammed by the drakes hornet ec-300's so that the tengu could run away because they started to lose. Was the fight fun and exciting? YES, did the fact that it took nearly a week to actually find make it worth it? NO.

I don't have the patience or the free-time to roam around looking for one decent fight every other day (if im lucky). I would much rather have some sort of instant action, where we could actually get some damned fights.


Gimmy Rotten
Posted - 2011.03.04 15:55:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 02/03/2011 22:56:57
Epic fleet fights, PVP Instructor, Professional Recruiter, Carebear, NRDS, NBSI -10 pirate, Corp Leader, + 1,000 Man Alliance Leader, Mercenary, Asshat, Griefer and at present I perform asset denial along side the corporations that fly under the banner of The Orphanage.


. . .



Lately, real life has kept me so busy that I have had almost no time to play EVE for nearly a month. This forced break has caused me to reflect on where I have been, where I am and where I might be going. To summarize this and prevent this post from becoming just another incoherent ramble from a jaded vet, I will instead just summarize my thoughts as clearly and simply as possible.






No matter where I was, what I was doing or what I was trying to accomplish in game, there was one constant . . . people just don't want to fight unless they have a gross advantage.



There is no mechanism in the game that rewards combat.
There is no reason for a fleet to stay at a modest 7-10 size and not get any bigger short of not having enough people online.
There is no reason not to stay docked and wait for sheer, mind numbing boredom to deter your aggressor

but for the small group of close friends there is NO ACTUAL reason to PVP...

An environment where skill can meet skill and it ACTUALLY matters who wins.

^^^^^ I have had sooooo few fights like that, it's sad and TBH It gets frustrating Crying or Very sad




CCP added incursions in order to generate an in game reason for people to work together...

Well, what about the heart and soul of this game? A reason for people to go out there and actually face each other (as in the random player) and have some fun in the process?




Try Factional Warfare

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.03.04 17:16:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Gimmy Rotten
Try Factional Warfare



I have, the Amarr Militia (forgot to mention that) and since I have experience with FW I can only assume that you were hitting the crackpipe before you hit the "Post Reply" button.

ShadowMaiden
Amarr
Atrocity.
Posted - 2011.03.04 17:24:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Add arena pvp where you can only field ships / mods that you purchase yourself. Use alliance tournament rules and automate it.

Seriously, I don't know why they haven't added this..


WoW that way ---->


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