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blankseplocked [Proposal] Mines...bring them back...with limitations.
 
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:51:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 24/04/2011 18:31:36
Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 24/04/2011 18:24:50
Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 08/03/2011 14:15:16
Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 28/02/2011 22:54:06
Something I forgot even existed in the game as they were removed back in 2004 are mines. They were removed for certain reasons...lag issues for one and the fact that they could be spammed all over a gate to blow up ships as they come in is another.

The mines are something I personally would love to see back in game with a few limitations however.

If mines were to come back...

1. No more than 5 deployed at a time so gates cannot be easily spammed with them and to reduce lag.

2. When placed they are placed randomly up to 2km from the placing ship and self destruct after a time period such as 5 minutes or when the pilot who placed them logs off or leaves system. This will prevent concordokken on players that lay mines and go into high sec. They also cannot be placed within a certain distance of gates and stations. 15km seems reasonable for this.

3. Mines have the same 500m trigger range but a larger explosion radius. Mines will not decloak a **** unless it makes direct contact or is bumped by the ship. The explosion if detonated by another ship would declaok another ship however.

4. Mines once deployed are stationary and non-retrievable. Friendly ships can detonate them and they also do harm to all ships friend or foe alike.

5. Mines like bombs are restricted in high sec and are only deployable in nullsec.

6. Mines are deployed by a mine layer device. Mines also show up on overview and in space as objects that can be targeted and destroyed if so desired.

7. Make mines only deployable by Destroyer class ships. Give them some use...

8. One mine cannot be placed within the blast radius of another. This will give space for some ships to pass without getting hit and prevent one mine from destroying another. An idea proposed to me was to use the smartbomb mechanics that are already in place but as a stationary one time detonation item.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.01 17:42:00 - [2]
 

Seriously? Nobody wants mines back at all? Or is it that too many people here are too young in EvE to remember them? Supporting my own post...mines are awesome!

Scyth Darkhope
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2011.03.01 17:54:00 - [3]
 

Hell, I'm a new player and never heard about mines, but that seems an awesome idea!

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.01 20:15:00 - [4]
 

I don't think they were removed for a lack of love.

I think they did two different things that were problematic:

1. They created a massive amount of new objects the servers had to keep track of.
2. They created situations where someone might leave mines in low sec or null sec and they would pop someone while the character leaving mines was in high sec, thus calling in the wrath of concord.

Taisuke Black
Posted - 2011.03.01 20:25:00 - [5]
 

I know, make it so the mines disappear when you log out, and reappear when you log in.

I can see goonswarm logging 1000 people in simultaneously with mines in the same spot to nuke a titan.

Seriously though, mines would need a lot of reworking if they were to re-enter the game. I don't support your idea per se, but CCP needs to start designing new weapons for combat again.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2011.03.01 20:33:00 - [6]
 

Not to call attention to "another MMO", but STO has mines.

Difference being... they launch, they deploy, they float. If someone comes close enough to trigger them, they move to intercept and detonate. If no one approaches for a few minutes, they die.

Who says mines have to be placed and left forever. Treat them like an Interdictor bubble. Something that's kicked out in the middle of a battle, instead of arranged ahead of time.

Sure, you can't mine your happy Sov system into impenetrability, but you can still use them for KMs.


Ooh! Or just tie them into Sov?

Can only be used in systems where you hold Sov?

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.03.01 21:25:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 01/03/2011 21:25:38
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Not to call attention to "another MMO", but STO has mines.

Difference being... they launch, they deploy, they float. If someone comes close enough to trigger them, they move to intercept and detonate. If no one approaches for a few minutes, they die.

Who says mines have to be placed and left forever. Treat them like an Interdictor bubble. Something that's kicked out in the middle of a battle, instead of arranged ahead of time.

Sure, you can't mine your happy Sov system into impenetrability, but you can still use them for KMs.


Ooh! Or just tie them into Sov?

Can only be used in systems where you hold Sov?


If they functioned more like STO, meh, okay. However, unlike that game, there is no front/side/rear to ships in Eve, all directions are equally vulnerable and part of the firing arc. So, there is little reason to have such a weapon. If someone is chasing you and gaining, they are in a fast ship so the mines won't/shouldn't catch them. That is the only situation I can think of for the use of such weapons.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:28:00 - [8]
 

Someone didn't read my thread...but yeah...make them like Smartbombs and Bombs...the use of which in Empire gets you Concorded. Or restrict them entirely...but put them in 0.0 with the restrictions I stipulated in my original post.

Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Posted - 2011.03.02 10:30:00 - [9]
 

I'd like the idea of having mines to deploy, but I dont really see the point in doing so if they will disintegrate after 5 minutes.

I think stealth bombers can do the same job just as well.

I'd be all for "proper" mines that u can deploy for a long period of time. These could have many uses that can't be done with current mechanics.

And sure, make them 0.0 only, there'd be no end to all the crying in high/lowsec.






Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions

Posted - 2011.03.02 10:38:00 - [10]
 

Could be cool to have mines back...
/supported

bartos102
Posted - 2011.03.02 11:26:00 - [11]
 

i like the idea would be great for hunting ratting bots :D

deploy mines in a bunch of the belts leave system and let the bots kill themselves on the mines :D

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.03 21:18:00 - [12]
 

MINES! Want them back please!

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.03.03 21:33:00 - [13]
 

Mines could be fun, but the should have a deployment range from objects, such as 5km from a gate and maybe 1km from another mine. Kinda like cargo containers.


But otherwise I like the idea. The time limit would be good too.

ALSO! make mines non discriminitory, you know if anyone gets close to it. it goes off.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.05 23:52:00 - [14]
 

Bumpy bumpy for a good idea.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.06 11:00:00 - [15]
 

OP want to make gate camping easier and to get even the ships with cov ops. Not supported.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.06 14:18:00 - [16]
 

i dont mind the idea of mines, but i would want to use some of the game mechanics of drones on them.

basically have a max of 5 mines deployable at one time. have the mines damage radius and damage potential tie in to drone bandwidth. High drone bandwidth meaning you can deploy high damage mines so the mines potential is tied to the deploying ships potential.

plus use the drone mechanic for having active mines and deactivated mines dependent on whether the ship that deployed them is on grid.

im still a little unsure on hunter seeker mines though. maybe tie them into the same fof missile mechanic so you cannot pick its targets but 'seeks' any uncloaked target within its activation radius.
Those seekers should have a max flight time when seeking and should detonate after that flight time.

thats my thought on this topic :)

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.03.06 20:04:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
OP want to make gate camping easier and to get even the ships with cov ops. Not supported.


dont shoot it down for that reason, offer a balance idea to account for covert ops vessels.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.03.06 21:58:00 - [18]
 

Mines were never a good idea in EvE.

But, they could be viable if used on a larger scale:

Rather than accounting for individual mines, you setup a Mine Field of variable size and strength. The server can calculate a broad average damage profile for the Mine Field as a single entity. How much damage a given ship would take would be a field density vs sig radius issue.

Example: Ship with sig radius of 500 m enters a Mine Field 100 km cubed with with 1 million mines deployed. That means there is a mine every 1000 m. So the ship would take an average of 50% mine damage while it moves through the mine field, none if stopped.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.07 00:46:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
OP want to make gate camping easier and to get even the ships with cov ops. Not supported.


I fly Cov Ops in nullsec every day. I am not so much of a sissy as you to be worried about a few little mines taking me out. And yes it would be useful for gate camps...both offensively and defensively. Hardly would make it "easier" since you have to sacrifice some of your regular DPS in order to fit the mine launcher. Not everybody is going to have a mine launcher for that reason alone.

Mina Banestar
Posted - 2011.03.07 01:01:00 - [20]
 

The only way i can see of stopping the 'lay mines then go to high sec and get concorded when your mines go off' problem would be to only keep the mines around as long as the ship that layed them was in the same system.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.07 01:13:00 - [21]
 

Does nobody read my posts? Timer to limit how long mines remain once laid and only allowed in Nullsec or a Concordable action.

Mina Banestar
Posted - 2011.03.07 01:18:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Does nobody read my posts? Timer to limit how long mines remain once laid and only allowed in Nullsec or a Concordable action.


And how does that stop a ship from laying mines then flying into high sec before the timer runs out?

Unless you make the timer so short its virtually useless for the intended purpose this is an issue you need to address.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.07 01:20:00 - [23]
 

Well I don't see an issue to address since actions taken in nullsec do not effect Concord and its actions against you. Therefor if you lay a mine in nullsec and move to high sec and someone dies from your mine Concord isn't going to give a crap no matter where you are. And if you lay a mine in empire or lowsec then you get concorded. Pretty simple.

Mina Banestar
Posted - 2011.03.07 01:31:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Well I don't see an issue to address since actions taken in nullsec do not effect Concord and its actions against you. Therefor if you lay a mine in nullsec and move to high sec and someone dies from your mine Concord isn't going to give a crap no matter where you are. And if you lay a mine in empire or lowsec then you get concorded. Pretty simple.


And in an ideal EVE that would be the case, problem is the agression mechanics as they stand currently dont allow that to happen.

Instead you get the situation I described above (people getting concorded for actions which took place outside the system) which was a major factor in mines being removed in the first place. So unless you want to recode the entire agression system i think its something that needs to be addressed.

Actually this has given me some ideas of my own regarding mines, ill make a new thread rather than clog this one up any more

MNagy
Posted - 2011.03.07 02:24:00 - [25]
 

Its enough trouble that in wormholes that people use secure containers (tonnes of them) around warp bubbles around a pos.

So you get sucked in when you warp to 100 to the pos and get decloaked.

This would allow people to put mines everywhere and warping to a pos you just scanned would be insta-death.

Not supported.


Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.07 02:30:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: MNagy
Its enough trouble that in wormholes that people use secure containers (tonnes of them) around warp bubbles around a pos.

So you get sucked in when you warp to 100 to the pos and get decloaked.

This would allow people to put mines everywhere and warping to a pos you just scanned would be insta-death.

Not supported.




Yes I can see it now...as soon as you warp into system hundreds of pilots start planting mines around a single POS and you die because of it.

Sorry...either you didn't read any of this post at all or you have no common sense at all.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.07 02:47:00 - [27]
 

sorry but if either of you think that planting mines and them staying active when u **** off somewhere else is a viable option then ur sadly mistaken.

the only way mines are going to work is if theyre only active when the ship thats deployed them is on the same grid as them, period.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.03.07 07:40:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Venkul Mul
OP want to make gate camping easier and to get even the ships with cov ops. Not supported.


dont shoot it down for that reason, offer a balance idea to account for covert ops vessels.


Why? They are working fine. You haven't a god given right to kill every ship that pass a gate.

If you are good and lucky you get a percentage of the cov ops vessels. If not it is you that should adapt, not all the game that should adapt to your playstile.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.03.07 21:47:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Venkul Mul
OP want to make gate camping easier and to get even the ships with cov ops. Not supported.


dont shoot it down for that reason, offer a balance idea to account for covert ops vessels.


Why? They are working fine. You haven't a god given right to kill every ship that pass a gate.

If you are good and lucky you get a percentage of the cov ops vessels. If not it is you that should adapt, not all the game that should adapt to your playstile.


I still don't understand what your problem is here. Any idiot in a cov ops with any skill at all would be able to easily avoid mines in space. Not only would they be seen on overview but in space as well. Since you literally have to be within bumping distance to set them off then the only way they would have any danger is if someone was lucky enough to place one exactly where the ship appeared on the other side of the gate. Even with 5 per ship and 20 ships its a pretty damned fair chance that it isn't going to happen that way.

If this were implemented I am sure CCP would set up something where the mine would randomly place 2k away from the placing ship kinda like probes do right now when you launch them. So getting an exact precice bead on gate in locations will be extremely hard if not impossible.

I will however concede a point to a previous reply in this thread. Make the mines despawn if the person who places them leaves the system or if the timer runs out...whichever is soonest. This will elleviate any concern over killing someone in nullsec while in empire and getting concorded for such an action.

EdTeach
Posted - 2011.03.07 22:24:00 - [30]
 


Supported with reservations and suggestions ...


1. Any mine(s) deployed by a pilot will self-destruct when that pilot leaves the system for any reason, or logs off. This cures the 'leave them in losec, concordoken in hisec' problem with originals. You want minefields, you have to be there to tend them.

2. Nulsec/Wspace only... just like bombs and bubbles.

3. 1 field per skill level(the question is it a gunnery or missile skill can wait). Nine mines per field(1 in center and 1 on each of 8 cube corners. When laying fields, the distance between mines in the field cube can be set from between 1km-5km distance from each other.

4. All mines die 12 hours after deployment regardless.

5. Mines can be targeted and killed, but have extremely low sig radius, making clearing them a time-consuming chore.

6. When mines are targeted, the owner of the field is notified.

7. Mines do not affect cloaks for range decloak purposes, but DO sense a cloaked ship and will detonate for damage if in range.

This gives us more choices in the very slim Destroyer Hull offerings.

Minelayer - Bonuses that allow fitting of minelayer module.

Minesweeper - Bonuses for targeting and destroying mines.

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