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blankseplocked CCP should remove jump bridges its a good idea.
 
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JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.02.28 20:52:00 - [1]
 

Cant wait for those 200+ fleet jump through laggy gates.

Imagine the tears of fleet members.
Imagine all those stuck petitions.
Imagine all those people suffer from lag that are 2 regios away , becuase they happen to be on the same node.

Imagine ...

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:00:00 - [2]
 

Whats there to imagine? It already happens.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:04:00 - [3]
 

imagine the 0.0 alliance tears for not being able to place an attack anywhere in the game any time they want with no preparation.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:06:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Brooks Puuntai
Whats there to imagine? It already happens.


Well now multiply it by 3 or more.

Desya Dak'ann
Caldari
No Ducks Allowed
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:15:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Cant wait for those 200+ fleet jump through laggy gates.


Its the same ****ing lag you moron

m3rb3aSt
Minmatar
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:23:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 28/02/2011 22:22:56
Originally by: mkmin
imagine the 0.0 alliance tears for not being able to place an attack anywhere in the game any time they want with no preparation.



titans dawg

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:38:00 - [7]
 


James Tiberius Kirk
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:42:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Akita T
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3568/bobtheangryflowerapos.gif
Image changed to a link. Spitfire



domain unregistered, to view, register at cantbearsedtoregister.com

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.28 22:55:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: m3rb3aSt
Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 28/02/2011 22:22:56
Originally by: mkmin
imagine the 0.0 alliance tears for not being able to place an attack anywhere in the game any time they want with no preparation.



titans dawg


You're right. Titan bridges should be nerfed too.

Dhund Wyer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:00:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: m3rb3aSt
Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 28/02/2011 22:22:56
Originally by: mkmin
imagine the 0.0 alliance tears for not being able to place an attack anywhere in the game any time they want with no preparation.



titans dawg


You're right. Titan bridges should be nerfed too.


Make it a two way bridge that anyone can use while its active!

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:01:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Dhund Wyer
Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: m3rb3aSt
Edited by: m3rb3aSt on 28/02/2011 22:22:56
Originally by: mkmin
imagine the 0.0 alliance tears for not being able to place an attack anywhere in the game any time they want with no preparation.



titans dawg


You're right. Titan bridges should be nerfed too.


Make it a two way bridge that anyone can use while its active!


lol I love it!

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:02:00 - [12]
 

looooooooooooooooooooool yes.

Hyveres
Caldari
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.02.28 23:03:00 - [13]
 

Well never had an issue with lacking bridges back in my IT days.

Though it seems that those who have grown used to the 0.0 Interstate highway cannot imagine a future without it(read the dudes & dudettes who live in the north).

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:16:00 - [14]
 

*alliance exec logs in*

"hey boss, some corp is claiming sov in a system near us, but refuses to pay rent"

"just ignore them, our fleet is too far away"


No jump bridges means one (admittedly smaller) step towards opening up 0.0 just a little more.

I also support the probably sarcastic comment about removing Titan bridges. Or at the very least nerf the crap out of them. Higher fuel costs perhaps, plus a long-ish cooldown on the module itself. So you can send a small force through, but not an entire alliance.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.03.01 00:21:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Akita T
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3568/bobtheangryflowerapos.gif
Image changed to a link. Spitfire


BPO's

Droidster
Posted - 2011.03.01 01:13:00 - [16]
 

Then the devs would have to walk all their 0.0 loot out instead of just teleporting it to Jita. Can't have that.

Jack Gilligan
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.03.01 01:15:00 - [17]
 

Just remember that any idea like this with the purpose of "nerfing the powerblocs" will hurt them LESS because of their size and amount of space controlled and will hurt smaller alliances the most.


sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.03.01 02:57:00 - [18]
 

jump bridges are a little silly I have not played eve much alot last few years but tried to come back a little while ago and so joine d a0.0 alliance in north, no issue witht hem theyware great but I had hardly used jump bridges before and espially not titan ones in all my previosu allainces we littlely jumped from north of eve to curse in about 2 minutes it seemed I mean wtf is that all about.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.01 07:16:00 - [19]
 

Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.


Alageth
Posted - 2011.03.02 01:30:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Dorian Wylde
*alliance exec logs in*

"hey boss, some corp is claiming sov in a system near us, but refuses to pay rent"

"just ignore them, our fleet is too far away"


No jump bridges means one (admittedly smaller) step towards opening up 0.0 just a little more.

I also support the probably sarcastic comment about removing Titan bridges. Or at the very least nerf the crap out of them. Higher fuel costs perhaps, plus a long-ish cooldown on the module itself. So you can send a small force through, but not an entire alliance.


Don't know what alliance your part of but I'm sure mine would love to have people try to set up near us. We just took over an area so have no jump bridges and we are still losing almost a fleet a day fighting the remaining locals.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.02 01:58:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Cant wait for those 200+ fleet jump through laggy gates.

Imagine the tears of fleet members.
Imagine all those stuck petitions.
Imagine all those people suffer from lag that are 2 regios away , becuase they happen to be on the same node.

Imagine ...


that's your argument? really..? "we should do it for all the people we would **** off?" dumb.. it's not a good idea.

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.03.02 04:49:00 - [22]
 

Get on with the idea. I am waiting for my Tax Refund.

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.03.02 05:00:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Swynet on 02/03/2011 05:02:10
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
"hey boss, some corp is claiming sov in a system near us, but refuses to pay rent"


"Ok, they want a party let's give them one"

Quote:
"just ignore them, our fleet is too far away"


Kids answer, instant "gratification" or "projection".


Conclusion:
Use your brains and try to understand this; alliance and alliance effort must be solid like a rock, with solid bases on every pint that every one in, agrees and follows.
If they don't and you have trouble to deal with, then you don't deserve to be at your place, you don't deserve to lead that space, you simply don't deserve every single thing you've got because you've just became like a simple pawn, claiming power but no guts.

Show your alliance members some respect for what you claim and this thred would never exist.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.03.02 19:40:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Dorian Wylde
*alliance exec logs in*

"hey boss, some corp is claiming sov in a system near us, but refuses to pay rent"

"just ignore them, our fleet is too far away"


No jump bridges means one (admittedly smaller) step towards opening up 0.0 just a little more.

I also support the probably sarcastic comment about removing Titan bridges. Or at the very least nerf the crap out of them. Higher fuel costs perhaps, plus a long-ish cooldown on the module itself. So you can send a small force through, but not an entire alliance.


Your lack of history is apparent.

The big blocks existed long before jumpbridges and long before Titans. You would not open up 0.0 anymore by removing jump bridges or nerfing titans anymore. Its not going to open 0.0 up to the hi sec masses, the lack of anything to do in 0.0 is the impediment not jumpbridges. A single 0.0 system if its lucky could support a dozen characters, the same high sec system can support hundreds. If you want to move more folks out and make it so alliances can support themselves on fewer systems you've got to increase what is available in one system. The fact that the Devs and the CSM don't seem to understand that is significant. As a starting point you'd need to double all the static belts, double all anamolies, ensure at least 1 of each mini site in a system, lower requirements for industry and military indexes, and double affects of each. However CCP probably knows the problem but can't really fix the problem because the servers can't handle it.

The north couldn't afford those huge jb networks if you also killed the tech monopoly they have. Just move to allow alchemy to produce tech and you'd see a crash of the market soon. Easy fix, no fiddling with moons, probably just a few lines of code at most. (It would also stop the NC dir and ceos from buying characters that they use just to awax others, then selling said characters again to unsuspecting individuals all the time while evading any penalties to themselves.)

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:00:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
*alliance exec logs in*

"hey boss, some corp is claiming sov in a system near us, but refuses to pay rent"

"just ignore them, our fleet is too far away"


No jump bridges means one (admittedly smaller) step towards opening up 0.0 just a little more.

I also support the probably sarcastic comment about removing Titan bridges. Or at the very least nerf the crap out of them. Higher fuel costs perhaps, plus a long-ish cooldown on the module itself. So you can send a small force through, but not an entire alliance.


Your lack of history is apparent.

The big blocks existed long before jumpbridges and long before Titans. You would not open up 0.0 anymore by removing jump bridges or nerfing titans anymore. Its not going to open 0.0 up to the hi sec masses, the lack of anything to do in 0.0 is the impediment not jumpbridges. A single 0.0 system if its lucky could support a dozen characters, the same high sec system can support hundreds. If you want to move more folks out and make it so alliances can support themselves on fewer systems you've got to increase what is available in one system. The fact that the Devs and the CSM don't seem to understand that is significant. As a starting point you'd need to double all the static belts, double all anamolies, ensure at least 1 of each mini site in a system, lower requirements for industry and military indexes, and double affects of each. However CCP probably knows the problem but can't really fix the problem because the servers can't handle it.

The north couldn't afford those huge jb networks if you also killed the tech monopoly they have. Just move to allow alchemy to produce tech and you'd see a crash of the market soon. Easy fix, no fiddling with moons, probably just a few lines of code at most. (It would also stop the NC dir and ceos from buying characters that they use just to awax others, then selling said characters again to unsuspecting individuals all the time while evading any penalties to themselves.)



The point isn't the highsecers moving out, because no, it probably won't have a huge affect. The point is there are now basically only 2 sides to 0.0 right now, and you can get your forces out to attack the other side with no effort. Maybe I misunderstand 0.0 alliances and maybe the expectation is wrong... maybe the expectation of 0.0 douchbaggery is wrong when really everyone in lovey hippies who really don't want to fight. Or maybe the peaceful status quo is too tempting in order to finance the supercaps and other things that make 0.0 not fun.

Zircon Dasher
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:01:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Swynet
with solid bases on every pint


yeah. stoopid stemless glassware!!

Tom Sasaki
Posted - 2011.03.02 22:52:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
*alliance exec logs in*

"hey boss, some corp is claiming sov in a system near us, but refuses to pay rent"

"just ignore them, our fleet is too far away"


No jump bridges means one (admittedly smaller) step towards opening up 0.0 just a little more.

I also support the probably sarcastic comment about removing Titan bridges. Or at the very least nerf the crap out of them. Higher fuel costs perhaps, plus a long-ish cooldown on the module itself. So you can send a small force through, but not an entire alliance.


Your lack of history is apparent.

The big blocks existed long before jumpbridges and long before Titans. You would not open up 0.0 anymore by removing jump bridges or nerfing titans anymore. Its not going to open 0.0 up to the hi sec masses, the lack of anything to do in 0.0 is the impediment not jumpbridges. A single 0.0 system if its lucky could support a dozen characters, the same high sec system can support hundreds. If you want to move more folks out and make it so alliances can support themselves on fewer systems you've got to increase what is available in one system. The fact that the Devs and the CSM don't seem to understand that is significant. As a starting point you'd need to double all the static belts, double all anamolies, ensure at least 1 of each mini site in a system, lower requirements for industry and military indexes, and double affects of each. However CCP probably knows the problem but can't really fix the problem because the servers can't handle it.

The north couldn't afford those huge jb networks if you also killed the tech monopoly they have. Just move to allow alchemy to produce tech and you'd see a crash of the market soon. Easy fix, no fiddling with moons, probably just a few lines of code at most. (It would also stop the NC dir and ceos from buying characters that they use just to awax others, then selling said characters again to unsuspecting individuals all the time while evading any penalties to themselves.)

While huge coalitions have always existed, their ability to project force has never been close to the level we currently see.

One thing is doing a "deployment", another is being able to react to any hostile incursion with the majority of your coalitions online members within 20 minutes of the hostile fleet being reported.

I am overstating it as nobody forms up fleets that fast, but the members can still be at the rally point in that ammount of time assuming they start moving the moment the jabber pings. Them being 2-3 regions away or 2 systems away from the point of conflict doesnt really matter with the current 0.0 interstate highways in the drone regions and northern parts of 0.0.

The south currently lacks an extensive JB network but given time I am sure that -A-, stainwagon and friends will also have their own interstate up turning that part of 0.0 into another bluelist or die area.

I doubt coalitions will collapse when JB dissapears, but their ability to project massive force easily will be hampered and given time that might lead to more regional conflicts instead of the blob vs NPC 0.0 dwelling way we are seeing today.

Heck go back 2-3 years and 0.0 had more, and smaller powerblocks than it currently does, if you map the growth of a coalitions JB network and compare it to their growth in members & supercap numbers I reckon you can see a correlation.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.03.03 10:13:00 - [28]
 

There ability to project their power will not be diminished in the removal of jump bridges they would only adapt.

The adaptation would be simple. Maintain ships in three key systems within a broad range. Put jump clones in them. Blood Jump to them if necessary. Even with the amount of space the coalitions control three jump clones you can pretty much be within 10 jumps of any invader to your space. Time to jump minimal.

Supercarriers do not use Jump Bridges and thus their ability to project would in no way be affected by removing jump bridges, just leave cyno alts in key systems and make it anywhere within 20 min and folks do that already.

The counter to Supercarriers is that you don't have an equivalent counter ship. Titans cost about twice as much so they are not an effective counter. You need to develop the Dreadnought line out to a level 3 dreadnought that is a Superdreadnought with cost about the same as a Supercarrier with hp/resistances etc on the same level. Should be such that there is a 50/50 chance on a 1 vs 1 battle that either would win, which means the Superdreadnought needs some sort of antifighter module/anti fighter-bomber module. Easiest probable set up would be a bubble like effect that deals damage only to fighters and fighter-bombers. Bubble should be sufficient that the supercarriers fighters and fighter-bombers cannot hit the Superdreadnought without being in it, likely some flights would be lost in any fight. The Superdreadnought would then need larger weapons capable of splitting open the Supercarrier in a reasonable time frame.

It would take a lot of programming but to enable more smaller groups to participate you need to modulate the supercaps, such that sub caps can target specific systems. Like a frigate that could lock onto the launch bay and destroy it, or the landing bay, or a gun, etc. It would be similar to how you knock out station services and it would take considerable damage to knock something out. Taking from common sci fi themes... Shield Generator (this goes down you lose your shields), Jump Drive, Sublight Drive, Power Plant (cap), Weapons, Launch/Landing Bays, etc.


Tom Sasaki
Posted - 2011.03.03 12:30:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
There ability to project their power will not be diminished in the removal of jump bridges they would only adapt.

The adaptation would be simple. Maintain ships in three key systems within a broad range. Put jump clones in them. Blood Jump to them if necessary. Even with the amount of space the coalitions control three jump clones you can pretty much be within 10 jumps of any invader to your space. Time to jump minimal.

Supercarriers do not use Jump Bridges and thus their ability to project would in no way be affected by removing jump bridges, just leave cyno alts in key systems and make it anywhere within 20 min and folks do that already.

The counter to Supercarriers is that you don't have an equivalent counter ship. Titans cost about twice as much so they are not an effective counter. You need to develop the Dreadnought line out to a level 3 dreadnought that is a Superdreadnought with cost about the same as a Supercarrier with hp/resistances etc on the same level. Should be such that there is a 50/50 chance on a 1 vs 1 battle that either would win, which means the Superdreadnought needs some sort of antifighter module/anti fighter-bomber module. Easiest probable set up would be a bubble like effect that deals damage only to fighters and fighter-bombers. Bubble should be sufficient that the supercarriers fighters and fighter-bombers cannot hit the Superdreadnought without being in it, likely some flights would be lost in any fight. The Superdreadnought would then need larger weapons capable of splitting open the Supercarrier in a reasonable time frame.

It would take a lot of programming but to enable more smaller groups to participate you need to modulate the supercaps, such that sub caps can target specific systems. Like a frigate that could lock onto the launch bay and destroy it, or the landing bay, or a gun, etc. It would be similar to how you knock out station services and it would take considerable damage to knock something out. Taking from common sci fi themes... Shield Generator (this goes down you lose your shields), Jump Drive, Sublight Drive, Power Plant (cap), Weapons, Launch/Landing Bays, etc.
Thing is stainwagon & friends proved what happens to unsupported supercaps when they took down a few titans/sc's using subcaps only, its a few months back but DT/Co2 were the guys loosing out due to lack of subcapital forces.

The reason being that those supercarriers had insufficient support. Ofcourse full fleets of supercaps(200+) can probably avoid that but 50-100 of them can be taken down by drakes if they lack support.

We saw it as well when IT was failing, the inability to get subcapital supriority meant they were not willing to field supercaps, heck even your coalition has done the same. Nobody in their right mind deploys their supers unless they control the subcapital fleet or are "certain" that there is no risk of a hotdrop happening.

This means that effective force projection depends on having subcapital pilots available to support supercapitals.

The other part of my argument is on bored pvpers, JB networks allows ease of travel to such an extent that having no hostiles within 50 gatejumps of your home system is no prob, since if you wanted to roam(even corproams or smaller stuff) you just use the JB network and in 10-15 jumps you are in the border region with your hostiles and can find someone to fight.

Being forced to JC/podclone to reach pvp will either make a lot of these bored PvPers quit or move to alliances that can actually offer them pvp. As I had an alt in IT I saw that happening in some corps during their 8 month stagnant farming period after MAX2 failed. FCs and active pilots which left and went to lowsec corps due to lack of PvP.

Your argument says that "casual" pvpers should have easy access to content even if they have 50k+ people blue, my philosophy is that if they really wanted easy access to pvp they should cut their bluelist a bit.

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2011.03.03 13:49:00 - [30]
 

The good idea with removing jump bridges is that it reduces the ability to control a large area of the map. Another good one is less use of LO \o/


 

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