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Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 00:59:00 - [1]
 

It seems that grouping up for missions is discouraged by the way the rewards are divided and theres no way to evenly split loot/salvage really.

Its odd in a game (especially in a MMO) where if you want to do anything in 0.0 or in lowsec youre going to be grouping to essentially discourage grouping in this part of the game.

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:09:00 - [2]
 

What?

loot logging + shared mission rewards.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:13:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 28/02/2011 01:14:25
Originally by: Noun Verber
What?

loot logging + shared mission rewards.


So the standing you get for a mission is shared too? Not just the ISK and the LP?

What I was more referring to is that you get 1/2 the bounty etc right? So you both run two missions, you get the same thing youd get if youd each run a mission.

Does Loot logging do more than tell who got what? IE a log of the stuff picked up? I havent grouped much if you cant tell lol

Or am I wrong on that?

Nonplus Ultra
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:18:00 - [4]
 

Running missions with people you can punch in the face IRL works perfectly.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:26:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Nonplus Ultra
Running missions with people you can punch in the face IRL works perfectly.


Thats actually what I was going to do, but then we figured out theres no more benefit to running them together than there is for running them seperately lol

unless as my friend thinks:
"The way i read it grouping with someone is more of a handycap then anything... yes stuff dies faster but your splitting money for your missions splitting standing for the ships... and only person getting standing for the missions is the one whos mission you are running"
Is wrong

Out of curiosity, do you gain standing from killing the rats in the mission? Or just bounty and negative standing from the faction they are?

Ive been running missions pretty much non stop, but I like watching things blowup, and watching the isk rolling in rather than actually caring about the standing and such

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Nonplus Ultra
Running missions with people you can punch in the face IRL works perfectly.

Thats actually what I was going to do, but then we figured out theres no more benefit to running them together than there is for running them seperately lol

unless as my friend thinks:
"The way i read it grouping with someone is more of a handycap then anything... yes stuff dies faster but your splitting money for your missions splitting standing for the ships... and only person getting standing for the missions is the one whos mission you are running"
Is wrong

Out of curiosity, do you gain standing from killing the rats in the mission? Or just bounty and negative standing from the faction they are?

Ive been running missions pretty much non stop, but I like watching things blowup, and watching the isk rolling in rather than actually caring about the standing and such

relates to FACTION standing.. not NPC corp standing.
Can't share faction standing gains through missions.. that's why CCP introduced the 'every lvl1 qual<0 agent talks to you' some time ago, as many people we're restricted by this (start out as a mission runner in high sec, kill lots of rats and then turn around and try a living in npc null sec by flying for pirate faction npc).

Nonplus Ultra
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:53:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Nonplus Ultra on 28/02/2011 01:57:52
The advantage to fleet mission running is only one:

concentrated firepower.

Example:
2 x 150DPS together will break a 300 DPS tank (impossible with 2 x [150DPS vs 300DPS tank]).
It will also destroy a ship that active-tanks 100 DPS much more quickly (200 effective DPS with 2 attacking 1 target vs 2 x 150-100=50DPS individually).

#Edited for clarity.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:57:00 - [8]
 

You cant share faction but you CAN share corp?

Cause we're not really worried about the faction standings as much as the corp ones. I was looking around for the info on it but I wasnt having any luck

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.02.28 02:04:00 - [9]
 

well its easier to just run multiple accounts but I do run level 4's with my friends who just start (if I am ine mpire and can be btohered) so that they get the standing gains from level 4's its not great but can help them apart form can;t think of much othe rbenefite xcept more firepower = quicker missions overall.

Skavirr
Posted - 2011.02.28 02:21:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
You cant share faction but you CAN share corp?

Cause we're not really worried about the faction standings as much as the corp ones. I was looking around for the info on it but I wasnt having any luck


If you've got it set to share rewards, all fleet members will get a split of the mission reward, time bonus and corp standings.

Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.02.28 02:23:00 - [11]
 

Let me illustrate simply the advantage of grouping.

In EvE rats don't have just a fixed HP, they have a fixed HP and an active tank.
Suppose you had a rat with a 200dps tank. If you brought one 300 dps ship, you'd be doing 300-200=100 dps over it's tank.
If you brought two 300 dps ships, you'd be doing 300+300-200=400 dps over it's tank, killing it 4 times as fast.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.02.28 02:34:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
You cant share faction but you CAN share corp?


That is correct. There are in game businesses dedicated to helping pilots raise their NPC corp standings this way.

As others have pointed out, rats die in less than half the time if you bring twice the firepower, so there are efficiency gains there. In addition a group picking up missions together will save on travel/docking time overall.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.28 03:04:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
You cant share faction but you CAN share corp?


That is correct. There are in game businesses dedicated to helping pilots raise their NPC corp standings this way.

As others have pointed out, rats die in less than half the time if you bring twice the firepower, so there are efficiency gains there. In addition a group picking up missions together will save on travel/docking time overall.



Not to mention if you have someone picking up after you (loot/salvage) and doing only that, you can shoot through missions more rapidly, raising your isk/hour even more.

Flex Nebura
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.28 06:47:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Nonplus Ultra
Edited by: Nonplus Ultra on 28/02/2011 01:57:52
The advantage to fleet mission running is only one:

concentrated firepower.

Example:
2 x 150DPS together will break a 300 DPS tank (impossible with 2 x [150DPS vs 300DPS tank]).
It will also destroy a ship that active-tanks 100 DPS much more quickly (200 effective DPS with 2 attacking 1 target vs 2 x 150-100=50DPS individually).

#Edited for clarity.


Well and you might not need to balance tank and gank for both ships. letting 1 ship focus on firepower and or perhaps at shooting smaller ships if that is the issue.
Also there is the whole looting and salvaging that could be made easier by bringing a friend.
And splitting the loot. Well you simple reprocess all the junk loot and split the minerals or make up some sort of gentlemans agreement based on who owns the mission.
And loot logging will indeed tell if your wing man is holding out on you.

Also, some people find some level 4 missions a little too hard for their chosen career path or they are just poor or low skilled. And then it would make sense to team up. Especially if 1 of them doesnt even have access to the lvl 4 agent in question. And doing something with your friends is almost always more enjoyable than doing it alone.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.02.28 07:00:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 28/02/2011 07:04:04
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
You cant share faction but you CAN share corp?

Cause we're not really worried about the faction standings as much as the corp ones. I was looking around for the info on it but I wasnt having any luck

Yes, there's plenty of people who fleet up to increase their miners standings to be able to refine without corporation tax (you need 6.7 standings for that), for example. LP, ISK mission rewards and corporation standings increase can be shared.

Note that faction standings decrease for shooting ships only happens when you're actually on the same grid, e.g. in the mission itself. A salvager that warps in when the room is cleared won't get faction decrease for instance - and neither will the miner who's mining away 20 jumps away.

I do agree that sharing mission info can't be done though so you always have to communicate where you are and when you have arrived at the acceleration gate when playing together. It's a bit tedious.
EVE doesn't really have a lot of co-op PvE content, although the Incursion stuff is a good addition. Usually people mainly co-oprate in high end DED complexes and Wormholes and such, but generally it's PvP where teaming up is really recommended.

Playing together doesn't often have added value, although it can be handy to speed up things, to remotely repair your friend on the way or to split between dps and tanking. I did a hard mission once where I brought in a speedtanking frigate who got all the aggro, it was ridiculously easy clearing the mission.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.02.28 07:57:00 - [16]
 

ITT: Someone who doesn't understand sharing mission rewards but finds the way he imagines they work odd for an MMO.


Also:
There's a very simple, yet perfect way to split loot and salvage evenly: Sell it and split the ISK.
If someone wants to keep a specific piece they can buy it (i.e. you sell it to your fleet member instead of someone else, the ISK is still shared)

There, I said it.
I must be a genius for coming up with this, because previously there was no way to evenly split loot/salvage.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.28 08:51:00 - [17]
 

Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.


TorTorden
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.28 10:15:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: TorTorden on 28/02/2011 10:16:12
Yea this is pretty much what many think at first glance, but in truth bringing some corpmates along for a mission back when I did them never realy hurt my 'bottom line'.
as mentioned earlier, two bc's could do lvl 4's easily where as they would struggle solo, this is probably also what I guess ccp envisioned with them considering missions where first added to the game in a time where battleships was considered both rare and awesome.

If you are already soloing l4's anyway bringing a mate in would also bring down total mission time, so if not better isk\hr at least it will most likely wash out to even.
Nothing makes between gate travel time less of a bore than a mate breaking out in song TS\voice...

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:30:00 - [19]
 

as for those in game corps.... how do you find those and hows it work usually?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.28 19:52:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
as for those in game corps.... how do you find those and hows it work usually?



Try... socialising?

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.28 20:28:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
as for those in game corps.... how do you find those and hows it work usually?



Try... socialising?


try... not being a troll? I know its hard
I was looking for suggestions and ideas of how this business transaction is usually done, not smartass coments.
Or was this a mistake on EVE O? lol

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.02.28 20:51:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
I do agree that sharing mission info can't be done though so you always have to communicate where you are and when you have arrived at the acceleration gate when playing together. It's a bit tedious.


you can drag and drop mission info into chat windows, and your fleet members can look at it Wink
(okay its a bit buggy but it gives the general info)

Takhisesis
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:01:00 - [23]
 

Really, if you guys are making the same solo or in a small fleet, why not group? You get that interaction with someone else, if you get into a really tight situation, having that second person there might get you out of a jam, when the other person said socializing, he may not have been trolling...it's a large part of being in a fleet and, IMO, a corp. Being able to chat and socialize while doing otherwise mundane things in between spurts of fun in the game can really increase the amount of fun you have in-game total.

OverLord Minion
Posted - 2011.02.28 21:22:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
as for those in game corps.... how do you find those and hows it work usually?



Try... socialising?


try... not being a troll? I know its hard
I was looking for suggestions and ideas of how this business transaction is usually done, not smartass coments.
Or was this a mistake on EVE O? lol


1) There's a recruiting channel (is one of the default channels I believe). Corps looking for people spam the channel like crazies...just pick the one you fell could be interesting. Get out if you think it was the wrong choice, find another.

2) For each question in this forum expect 5 trolls for each honest answer. Get used to it, try to enjoy and, please please, try not to became one of them.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.03.01 09:04:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Malcanis
Try... socialising?


try... not being a troll? I know its hard
I was looking for suggestions and ideas of how this business transaction is usually done, not smartass coments.
Or was this a mistake on EVE O? lol


He wasn't trolling. You asked a question that was most easily translated as "how do you find in game corps, and how does mission spoil sharing work usually?"

Malcanis suggested socialising. That's the best way of looking for player-run corps that suit your style. Just about every corporation has a different way of splitting up mission spoils, so the answer to that question is also, "try socialising".

It's amazing just how much you can achieve in an MMO by simply socialising, asking questions, observing people in action and thinking critically and rationally.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.01 18:36:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
It seems that grouping up for missions is discouraged by the way the rewards are divided and theres no way to evenly split loot/salvage really.

Its odd in a game (especially in a MMO) where if you want to do anything in 0.0 or in lowsec youre going to be grouping to essentially discourage grouping in this part of the game.


0/10 for not being smart enough to figure out a fair split.

Vivian Ramasita
Posted - 2011.03.01 22:10:00 - [27]
 

Or you could just...not run missions, if you don't like them. I've been playing for years, but stopped running missions within the first several months.

If you do like missions but just want a fair split, it can be done. The comment about concentrated firepower is pretty much right on -- two ships at once kill much faster than just half the time. So if you team up with one or two pilots the reward over time is indeed greater.

Plus there is loot logging, and bounties are split automatically. You know, for fairness. To encourage players to form gangs.


 

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