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blankseplocked Please fix "Un-probe-able" ships.
 
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Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.26 16:08:00 - [31]
 

Meh. This is getting cyclical.
I'll leave it at I have my opinion and you have yours.
(but i'm right!:p)

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.02.26 23:06:00 - [32]
 

The risk with an unprobeable T3 is that they are crap doing anything else. Its difficult to do quality missions in a unprobeable T3, and PvP is out of the question.

The only thing that is too easy for the ship is "afk griefing" of null sec.

Zilberfrid
Posted - 2011.02.26 23:17:00 - [33]
 

I like being unprobable.

There are enough counters, if the person being unprobable is missioning, catch him at stations or gates, if he is doing other stuff, just probe the other stuff.

Whereas you might think it is unfair there is no counter against being unprobable, if it were not so, I'd think it to be unfair there would be no counter against probes.

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2011.02.26 23:27:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
So you admit that there's no risk for these types of ships, except at gates. Unless they switch subs in station to cloaky and travel...
What happened to risk vs. reward and nothing should be 100%.

This simply is not true. There are very effective ways to catch these ships. Doesn't seem like you've done your homework.

I'll give you a hint. Minnie ships are extremely effective at hunting these ships. Do your homework.


raney ilara
Posted - 2011.02.27 00:18:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: raney ilara on 27/02/2011 00:18:25


what needs to be fixed...? sounds like you think they are working.

Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.27 01:35:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
So you admit that there's no risk for these types of ships, except at gates. Unless they switch subs in station to cloaky and travel...
What happened to risk vs. reward and nothing should be 100%.

This simply is not true. There are very effective ways to catch these ships. Doesn't seem like you've done your homework.

I'll give you a hint. Minnie ships are extremely effective at hunting these ships. Do your homework.



Do all of you not know how to read? It is NOT POSSIBLE to probe unprobeable ships, as the name would imply. No matter your skills and no matter your implants.

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2011.02.27 01:51:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
So you admit that there's no risk for these types of ships, except at gates. Unless they switch subs in station to cloaky and travel...
What happened to risk vs. reward and nothing should be 100%.

This simply is not true. There are very effective ways to catch these ships. Doesn't seem like you've done your homework.

I'll give you a hint. Minnie ships are extremely effective at hunting these ships. Do your homework.



Do all of you not know how to read? It is NOT POSSIBLE to probe unprobeable ships, as the name would imply. No matter your skills and no matter your implants.
I read just fine. And I'm not talking about probing them. There are pirates out there that have figured out efficient ways in killing unprobabeable ships. I should know because I have fallen victim to them. On more than one occasion. The name of the game is adapting. You need to adapt. Figure out how they're doing it. I gave you a hint and it flew past you. I'm not going to spell it out for you because it hurts my bottom line.


Elldranga
Posted - 2011.02.27 01:54:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Elldranga on 27/02/2011 01:59:36
Edited by: Elldranga on 27/02/2011 01:58:37
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
So you admit that there's no risk for these types of ships, except at gates. Unless they switch subs in station to cloaky and travel...
What happened to risk vs. reward and nothing should be 100%.

This simply is not true. There are very effective ways to catch these ships. Doesn't seem like you've done your homework.

I'll give you a hint. Minnie ships are extremely effective at hunting these ships. Do your homework.



Do all of you not know how to read? It is NOT POSSIBLE to probe unprobeable ships, as the name would imply. No matter your skills and no matter your implants.


There are many circumstances where it IS possible to find "unprobeable" ships (or at least ships that were unprobeable at dock). You're so completely wrong on this issue.

Forget all the obvious things like drones/ammo that have already been mentioned, that you apparently didn't manage to read. Is there something wrong with your D scanner? It's obviously going to be difficult, but a stationary afk target, is NOT invulnerable to a D scanner who knows how to locate via cross scans and has a fast ship. Difficult? yes. Time consuming? Yes. Impossible? No.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.27 02:19:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Originally by: Exlegion
There are very effective ways to catch these ships. Doesn't seem like you've done your homework.

I'll give you a hint. Minnie ships are extremely effective at hunting these ships. Do your homework.
Do all of you not know how to read? It is NOT POSSIBLE to probe unprobeable ships, as the name would imply. No matter your skills and no matter your implants.
Hypocrisy overload. Learn it yourself and save yourself from these kinds of embarrassing mistakes.

Nothing was said about probing the ships down: he said that there are effective ways to catch these ships. Have you tried any of them? You are just too stuck with your good old tools to think up (or even look for) any new means or ways of countering the counter to your tactic. Hell, you just managed to prove that you cannot even conceive of their being other ways than the one method you rely on to the point where you equate "catch" with "probe" for no good reason.

Since I like hammering a message home, I'll say this again: just because your old ways no longer works doesn't mean that anything is broken; it just means you need to find new ways of doing things new ways that do work and there are plenty of those. Complacency kills, so stop being complacent. Your prey has evolved. It is time for you to do the same. Others already have.

Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.27 03:18:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Mitsune Konno on 27/02/2011 03:20:37

The OP is "Please fix un-probe-able ships" not please teach me how to gatecamp or whatever. You call me a hypocrit, but you seem blinded by your rage to keep your ez-mode gameplay in place.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.02.27 07:57:00 - [41]
 

As I said, I never thought I'd see the day when idiots and bears argued in favour of instalocking alpha camps.

Having a gang of sensor boosted arty BS on the undock or gate makes for much more interesting gameplay than anything involving active hunting and cat-and-mouse shenanigans.

Misanthra
Posted - 2011.02.27 08:52:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
So you admit that there's no risk for these types of ships, except at gates. Unless they switch subs in station to cloaky and travel...
What happened to risk vs. reward and nothing should be 100%.

This simply is not true. There are very effective ways to catch these ships. Doesn't seem like you've done your homework.

I'll give you a hint. Minnie ships are extremely effective at hunting these ships. Do your homework.



Do all of you not know how to read? It is NOT POSSIBLE to probe unprobeable ships, as the name would imply. No matter your skills and no matter your implants.



Here is how null sec does it...take notes. Probe the sites they are on. A lazy/stupid ninjya pve'er will not spam his dscan on site. Want to find him, find his ca/site. Yes if 20 in system you hit each one. This is why everyone says keep hitting d-scan....you got a site lock of 100% ahead of you and dscan showing your t3 a head, get your fast locker non noob tacklers ready...might be a nice reward on that next jump.

Mission runners...sorry but if empire motsu campers figured out t3 kill camps needing bare minimum staffing, think the pro's in low sec can figure something out. Hell..empire gets guns and concord and still pops t3. Low sec YARRRR!! just has guns.


Think them hiding sucks...move over to 0.0. Man....don;'t know how many hours I got guarded by drones in a crow lookin for these things on gate camps with bubbles. FC says probably gone but still have to see if you can find them to bump in the off chance they didn't run bubble nullify subsystem. TBH.....I'd take ca hopping for unprobables any day of the week over bubble dredging.

Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.27 09:31:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Misanthra
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
So you admit that there's no risk for these types of ships, except at gates. Unless they switch subs in station to cloaky and travel...
What happened to risk vs. reward and nothing should be 100%.

This simply is not true. There are very effective ways to catch these ships. Doesn't seem like you've done your homework.

I'll give you a hint. Minnie ships are extremely effective at hunting these ships. Do your homework.



Do all of you not know how to read? It is NOT POSSIBLE to probe unprobeable ships, as the name would imply. No matter your skills and no matter your implants.



Here is how null sec does it...take notes. Probe the sites they are on. A lazy/stupid ninjya pve'er will not spam his dscan on site. Want to find him, find his ca/site. Yes if 20 in system you hit each one. This is why everyone says keep hitting d-scan....you got a site lock of 100% ahead of you and dscan showing your t3 a head, get your fast locker non noob tacklers ready...might be a nice reward on that next jump.

Mission runners...sorry but if empire motsu campers figured out t3 kill camps needing bare minimum staffing, think the pro's in low sec can figure something out. Hell..empire gets guns and concord and still pops t3. Low sec YARRRR!! just has guns.


Think them hiding sucks...move over to 0.0. Man....don;'t know how many hours I got guarded by drones in a crow lookin for these things on gate camps with bubbles. FC says probably gone but still have to see if you can find them to bump in the off chance they didn't run bubble nullify subsystem. TBH.....I'd take ca hopping for unprobables any day of the week over bubble dredging.

Instalocking ships are all fine and good, except stations are almost all no-longer kickouts and most can just re-dock before any harm comes to them. Which is fine, i can understand that some people have slower computers and not being able to stop in time isn't fair to them. I can also understand that finding them in 0.0 is possible, but you're not actually finding them, you're finding the CA or plex that they're in. This doesn't address the fact that in low-sec or hi-sec, a missioner can have almost near immunity from piracy or war-dec targets with an insta-undock bookmark and a few spare subsystems and mods.
The argument that because some people are caught in suicide ganks or carelessly at a gate is not a valid reason for why these ships are immune from risk in empire by competent pilots. I'm not asking that the mechanic be eliminated, just adjusted so that it is difficult to find them, not impossible.
When I run missions (and yes I run them quite often), i'm forced to constantly watch for probes. I risk my ship to gain LP/ISK, why don't they have to do the same. They'll have the same opportunity for escape, infact they'll have a higher chance of success because it is harder for them to be probed.

Since I am a missioner as well as a pirate, this is the bulk of my experience with them. However, on more than a few occasions, we've come across gang-link ships that were also un-probe-able. Which I also find to be unacceptable. blahblah /end walloftext.

Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.27 09:55:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
I'm not asking that the mechanic be eliminated, just adjusted so that it is difficult to find them, not impossible.
<skip>
However, on more than a few occasions, we've come across gang-link ships that were also un-probe-able.

So they are not impossible to find, eh? Impossible to have a direct way to, yes, no more "they went that-a-way" sign - but you still can find them. Scan the anomalies, roam them, find your targets and pop them. So, what's the problem? Too lazy to roam?

Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:03:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Mitsune Konno on 27/02/2011 10:09:27
Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
I'm not asking that the mechanic be eliminated, just adjusted so that it is difficult to find them, not impossible.
<skip>
However, on more than a few occasions, we've come across gang-link ships that were also un-probe-able.

So they are not impossible to find, eh? Impossible to have a direct way to, yes, no more "they went that-a-way" sign - but you still can find them. Scan the anomalies, roam them, find your targets and pop them. So, what's the problem? Too lazy to roam?

too lazy to read? Too lazy to check your scanner for probes? You can even add them to your overview so you don't have to uncheck filters.

Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:30:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
too lazy to read? Too lazy to check your scanner for probes? You can even add them to your overview so you don't have to uncheck filters.

So, what's the problem? Regular players have to check for probes, 133t owners of expensive (both skill-wise and money-wise) T3 ships don't - and they pay for it with both offensive AND defensive capability, which doesn't allow them to easily sweep L4s anymore. They still can be found, so the risk/reward remains the same. They just can have fun by flying L3s and troll the local pirates, but I can't see where this is bad ^_^

Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.27 10:56:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
too lazy to read? Too lazy to check your scanner for probes? You can even add them to your overview so you don't have to uncheck filters.

So, what's the problem? Regular players have to check for probes, 133t owners of expensive (both skill-wise and money-wise) T3 ships don't - and they pay for it with both offensive AND defensive capability, which doesn't allow them to easily sweep L4s anymore. They still can be found, so the risk/reward remains the same. They just can have fun by flying L3s and troll the local pirates, but I can't see where this is bad ^_^

Your statement is wrong on so many levels.

Morgenholt Blue
RED.Legion
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:07:00 - [48]
 

No ship should be unprobable.. I can scan down a pod with ease but not a cruiser.. what's with that..?

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:28:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Morgenholt Blue
No ship should be unprobable..


Use the D-scanner. If the target is running missions, they won't be cloaked, which means they'll show up on the D-scan.

Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:28:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Morgenholt Blue
No ship should be probe everething what they want.


Fixed that for you.

Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:30:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Your statement is wrong on so many levels.

Would you list them, please? I know I'm slow, sorry for that, but I honestly don't understand what's so wrong here.

Morgenholt Blue
RED.Legion
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:44:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Morgenholt Blue
No ship should be unprobable..


Use the D-scanner. If the target is running missions, they won't be cloaked, which means they'll show up on the D-scan.


D-scan won't let you capture them due to missions not being aligned between celestials it is not possible to get closer to him by using bookmarks and warping between celestials either.

Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:45:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
too lazy to read? Too lazy to check your scanner for probes? You can even add them to your overview so you don't have to uncheck filters.

So, what's the problem? Regular players have to check for probes, 133t owners of expensive (both skill-wise and money-wise) T3 ships don't - and they pay for it with both offensive AND defensive capability, which doesn't allow them to easily sweep L4s anymore. They still can be found, so the risk/reward remains the same. They just can have fun by flying L3s and troll the local pirates, but I can't see where this is bad ^_^

As has been made abundantly clear by CCP, ship price does not dictate anything, other than its price. :D
Skill-wise, it's actually one of the easier ship classes to skill for.
They can't be found in the mission unless they're doing something wrong. Hence my own whine of omg nerf unprobeable ships.
Most of the unprobeable t3's I see now work in groups and blitz through level 5's in low-sec, while others try to be even safer by doing level 4's in hi-sec.
Trolling pirates, well, I guess everyone hates pirates.

Suiginryou Hitaiga
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:02:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Suiginryou Hitaiga on 27/02/2011 12:02:40
Edited by: Suiginryou Hitaiga on 27/02/2011 12:02:29
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
As has been made abundantly clear by CCP, ship price does not dictate anything, other than its price. :D

CCP might say all they want, but price equals money, and money, unless we talk about botters (that I hope we don't), measure effort.
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Most of the unprobeable t3's I see now work in groups and blitz through level 5's in low-sec

Stop right there you criminal scum.
A group, using remote eccms, can make itself unprobable even if there are no t3 ships and even if it consists of battleships (consider the sig size to damper). Always could and did it.

Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:09:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
too lazy to read? Too lazy to check your scanner for probes? You can even add them to your overview so you don't have to uncheck filters.

So, what's the problem? Regular players have to check for probes, 133t owners of expensive (both skill-wise and money-wise) T3 ships don't - and they pay for it with both offensive AND defensive capability, which doesn't allow them to easily sweep L4s anymore. They still can be found, so the risk/reward remains the same. They just can have fun by flying L3s and troll the local pirates, but I can't see where this is bad ^_^

As has been made abundantly clear by CCP, ship price does not dictate anything, other than its price. :D
Skill-wise, it's actually one of the easier ship classes to skill for.
They can't be found in the mission unless they're doing something wrong. Hence my own whine of omg nerf unprobeable ships.
Most of the unprobeable t3's I see now work in groups and blitz through level 5's in low-sec, while others try to be even safer by doing level 4's in hi-sec.
Trolling pirates, well, I guess everyone hates pirates.


What make you think that there must be no counter to your probing ship? So far i know that this counter apply not only to t3 ships running lvl5 in lowsec what you contineusly pointing out in this topic.


Mitsune Konno
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:42:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Cyberus


What make you think that there must be no counter to your probing ship? So far i know that this counter apply not only to t3 ships running lvl5 in lowsec what you contineusly pointing out in this topic.



I have no idea what you're talking about.

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:04:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Edited by: Mitsune Konno on 27/02/2011 03:20:37

The OP is "Please fix un-probe-able ships" not please teach me how to gatecamp or whatever. You call me a hypocrit, but you seem blinded by your rage to keep your ez-mode gameplay in place.


So, because you fail at piracy CCP should change the game mechanics to make it easier for you to succeed. You've already been told there are very successful ways in catching and killing these ships. But you aren't interested in adapting and refuse to take advice. Instead, you whine that the game adapts to you. Being butthurt because you can't kill things easily isn't a good reason to dumb down the game for you.

Adapt or die (in-game, of course).


Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:15:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Cyberus on 27/02/2011 14:16:33
Originally by: Mitsune Konno
Originally by: Cyberus


What make you think that there must be no counter to your probing ship? So far i know that this counter apply not only to t3 ships running lvl5 in lowsec what you contineusly pointing out in this topic.



I have no idea what you're talking about.


Ok i will try to explain.

What you asking for is generaly this:

No matter what if you are in using probes in probing ship you must be able to find an ship rigth? So with other words you asking to be superior in this matter without couter versus your ship. Basicly how many of pilots saying is an : "I win button"

Any kind of an ship in game is designed ( including t3 vesions ) thats those are very well scanable for combat probs ( even with sensor strength subsystem)

The thing what make them unscanble is the fitting what pilots choose to fit over the defencive/offencive modules.You contineusly pointing out (focusing your statment )on t3 vesions of the ships in lowsec that doing lvl5, but this tactics are used not only on this vesions.

There is also fleet command ships used regulary for providing bonuses with unprobable fit at savespots in nullsec.

Though if you are realy want it is even posseble to hide an battleship from the scan probes if it desired.

The point is: almsot any module is the game has its own counter ( as examle think about: mwd vs 2point scram or web or cap booster vs nos/neut, tracing comp vs traking damp ETC )

In this matter there is ECCM module is the counter vs probes. So basicly if the pilot choose to not fit any counter module vs the probes he will be scanable for your probes.

You see my point now?

De Guantanamo
Posted - 2011.02.27 15:33:00 - [59]
 

Pirating for 6 years and still don't know how to use the dscanner to hunt a target?

You should be ashamed.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.02.27 17:01:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Mag''s on 27/02/2011 17:01:00
Originally by: Mitsune Konno

Originally by: Suiginryou Hitaiga

So they are not impossible to find, eh? Impossible to have a direct way to, yes, no more "they went that-a-way" sign - but you still can find them. Scan the anomalies, roam them, find your targets and pop them. So, what's the problem? Too lazy to roam?

I'm too lazy to read. I'm too lazy to use my D- scanner for ships. I can even add them to your overview so I don't have to uncheck filters.

FYP


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