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Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:02:00 - [1]
 

we can build out own stuff an sell it an everything except
the meta 1 - 4 stuff...
How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too

If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff?

daddys helper
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:03:00 - [2]
 

research

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:04:00 - [3]
 

You first have to figure out the puzzle that no person has figured out yet. The answer is in front of your face.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:04:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40
Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:06:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40
Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P


Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such

Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:06:00 - [6]
 

I may be very wrong about this, but I think when a T2 invention fails it has a chance to make a meta ?-4 version of the item. But yea the vast majority of it comes from drops.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:06:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 23/02/2011 18:07:38
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
the meta 1 - 4 stuff...
How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too

If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff?

I underlined the correct part.. several threads in feature & idea discussion have been gone by about this. Nothing ever came out of it or did stick with CSM/CCP.

Originally by: Londo Cebb
I may be very wrong about this, but I think when a T2 invention fails it has a chance to make a meta ?-4 version of the item. But yea the vast majority of it comes from drops.

Nope.
That's as true as the tale of a slight chance to get a T2 BPO when you invent something. Twisted Evil

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:12:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Aessoroz
Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40
Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P


Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such


Nope, in WoW, the GMs get really ****ed at market manupilations, and other stuff. In EVE, everything is legit short of exploiting.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Aessoroz
Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40
Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P


Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such


Nope, in WoW, the GMs get really ****ed at market manupilations, and other stuff. In EVE, everything is legit short of exploiting.


what I meant was its up to the player to set the price... like here...
Like most other games that have a AH of any kind for that matter

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:18:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Aessoroz
Edited by: Aessoroz on 23/02/2011 18:04:40
Umm, it is a player run market in the fact you can sell it for how much and where, etc you want. The meta items are exclusively from drops. T2 however is where the real market is :P


Then Im right in saying that the WoW AH is a player run market too lol they should advertize as such


Nope, in WoW, the GMs get really ****ed at market manupilations, and other stuff. In EVE, everything is legit short of exploiting.


what I meant was its up to the player to set the price... like here...
Like most other games that have a AH of any kind for that matter


So? Market fudging is a required part of a player run market, even real life has traders who do such things as buy out commodities and relist for higher prices. In games like WoW, they donts like that.

Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:18:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Cory Sopapilla on 23/02/2011 18:19:00
Comparing the market to WoW is way off. Bind on Pickup items can't be sold, Bind on Equip items can't be sold, you can't buy in one area, haul to any of another of thousands of possible locations and sell said items for a profit, items are indestructible so you can sell someone a set of bags and they never have to buy another again, you choose 2 professions and can only make those items, etc. It's like comparing apples to planets.

The drop rates do need to be tweaked further though. Meta 4 afterburners drop like crazy.

All of these differences were what drew me to Eve from WoW.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:20:00 - [12]
 

huh w/e id like to be able to produce useful mods as an industrialist but I guess thats too much to ask for in this game

Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:22:00 - [13]
 

You still can. Not everything drops. Avoid building stuff where you see meta 2-4 stuff saturing the market to the point of crashed prices and abuse those who are bad at math putting refinable stuff up at half their melt-down value. Even crashed segments of the market are profitable.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:25:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Cory Sopapilla
You still can. Not everything drops. Avoid building stuff where you see meta 2-4 stuff saturing the market to the point of crashed prices and abuse those who are bad at math putting refinable stuff up at half their melt-down value. Even crashed segments of the market are profitable.


IE dont build anything other than ships.
everything else I see on the market is destroyed by meta 1 - 4 stuff.
Im not trying to come off like Im whining, Im trying to see the point of even having meta 0 BPOs anymore.

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:27:00 - [15]
 

Player Run market does not mean produce and market. The meta 1-4 items drop, they are put on the market to be bought by players, and thus they are controlled by the player base. Also, the meta 1-4 stuff is equivilent to rusty swords and tattered pelt armor. They help the younger pilots get up and running quickly, rookie ships and civilian stuff suck badly and they are better off feeling the sense of loss sooner by loosing a tier 1 or tier 2 ship then replacable rookie ship. They help to keep the price of T2 down as well, because if a T2 module is too expensive a meta 1-4 is only a few percent worse and alot cheaper (excluding some items like cruiser meta 4 guns, popularity of the cruiser hull, and high demand of medium guns). Meta 1-4 stuff are fine as they drop into EVE as they currently are, it helps to stimulate the economy (ship destruction) by buying the cheap higher stuff instead of fitting a fully T2 module ship (might run you 10-15 million for T2 modules vs maybe 5 million meta 1-4 stuff before factoring in a cruiser you are going to loose anyway).

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:29:00 - [16]
 

so whats the point of even having and allowing meta 0 stuff to BE built? its like someone complained that the industrialists couldnt build mods so they gave them absolutely useless BPOs an went "there. you CAN make em now"

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:32:00 - [17]
 

CCP never said everything is player created, they have just said they are moving in that direction. It has been proposed to change invention mechanics to where a failed invention attempt leads to meta 1-4. IMO, that would be a good thing as long as mission payouts, including LP requirements, are balanced with it.

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:34:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
How is it made? I keep hearing that its only from drops. If thats true isnt that going against the player run market idea? If thats the way this stuff is obtained them the AH in WoW is a player run market too

If not, where do I get BPOs for this stuff?
That's like saying: OMG! Asteroids are not made by players!!11 Evemarket is not Player driven!!!

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
IE dont build anything other than ships. everything else I see on the market is destroyed by meta 1 - 4 stuff. Im not trying to come off like Im whining, Im trying to see the point of even having meta 0 BPOs anymore.
As has been stated before, the drop chances should be further tweaked since some meta 3-4 stuff drops too much, other mods like arbalest launchers are VERY expensive in comparision.

If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:37:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Im not trying to come off like Im whining


Try harder.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Nika Dekaia


If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs.



so whats the point now?
where I am:
Heavy missile launcher I 35,000 isk
1-2 1.1 million
3 4 million
4 14 million

whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil?

Jacqueline Coeur
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:41:00 - [21]
 

The fact that meta 1-4 items are dropped has nothing to do with what kind of market they make. It's the fact that NPCs will neither buy them nor sell them that counts.

WoW's AH is a player made market only for those items that NPCs will neither buy nor sell. And IIRC WoW's NPCs will happily buy pretty much anything (for a very low price, but still they'd buy).

Some items in EvE are not part of the player run market (even if they are tradable on the EvE market). For example skill books, unresearched T1 BPOs and a few other items are not part of the player run market.

The market at large is player run if the vast majority of the trades are for items that are neither bought nor sold by NPCs. True for EvE's market and EvE's contracts. Untrue for WoW's AH.

Kengutsi Akira
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:44:00 - [22]
 

Hey wait, I think I just came to the reason for them

Invention
Or w/e its called now. You have to have a T1 item to use for the research for the T2 BPC right?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:47:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil?
Because you can make money building them.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:49:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Nika Dekaia


If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs.



so whats the point now?
where I am:
Heavy missile launcher I 35,000 isk
1-2 1.1 million
3 4 million
4 14 million

whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil?


Two of those meta 4 wepons cost more than a fully fitted t2 heavy caracal. That is why I wont buy them.

Kitty McKitty
Gallente
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:53:00 - [25]
 

Hey OP, if you can't look up eve wikis or other information then there is a special section for noob questions.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.02.23 19:02:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Nika Dekaia


If there actually were BPOs for meta items, THEN there would be no reason to have T1 BPOs.



so whats the point now?
where I am:
Heavy missile launcher I 35,000 isk
1-2 1.1 million
3 4 million
4 14 million

whats the point of being able to build variants that are worth all of 35k when the dropped ones are worth 14 mil?


If you could build the meta 1-4s, their prices would quickly plummet.

TR4D3R4LT
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:31:00 - [27]
 

I'm gonna let you in a little secret.

It's called mineral price.

If item X (from now on just X) takes 80 isk worth of minerals to build but sells for 100 isk you can make quick 20 isk per unit profit there. However dont forget there are build slot costs, hauling, setting market orders up etc is not that cheap either and so forth and so forth. In the end however if after all those your max ME researched BPO production item is selling for less then what is on the market, you are witnessing what is called "minerals I get from source y are free" merchant.

Your best response is to buy his underpriced goods, reprocess them and produce with them something that is valuable.

If you have item that produces profit when sold but is moving slowly you need to consider if your placement is optimal/your target audience too small. There is reason why Trabant never "catched on" as car to buy in USA while it sold like mad in other side of "block." Mind you eve is game all about time, hence dont cry if your items bring you monthly profit of 40 mil, seek something else and soon you have twenty different products all bringing in 800 mil a month with effort that takes to move mins and put couple week long production queues to build.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:35:00 - [28]
 


Shoopa Whoopa
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:43:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
If you could build the meta 1-4s, their prices would quickly plummet.


Yeah, into nowhere most of the time since their mineral content is about 20% of T1.
Technically, Meta 1-4 is cheaper than T1.

Most prices <T2 are based on mineral value, hence why commonly only the Meta 3 or 4 items actually cost more than T1.

I also, to my own surprise, saw someone auction a Meta 2 capital turret BPC in jita.
It was legit.

Haxfar Portlaind
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:46:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Shintai
http://science.discovery.com/tv/how-its-made/

Laughing


Just thought of that too! Very Happy

Anyone up for a eve version of it? Razz


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