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blankseplocked Technetium ??? what the hell
 
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Eminito
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:01:00 - [1]
 

Seriously, Technetium is out of control now.

CCP have no choice than to unblock the bottleneck, it's totally out of whack by HUGE percentages compared to other moon mined materials. This really should not be at the state it is at all. And should not be tolerated.

Point14
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:19:00 - [2]
 

U mad bro?

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:26:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Eminito
This really should not be at the state it is at all. And should not be tolerated.



Well CCP knew about this almost 1 /2 yrs ago and did nothing.

Don't expect it to change for a few more years.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.02.21 22:16:00 - [4]
 

Well, to be fair, I am used to making accurate warnings that are never heeded Laughing
At least the trading profit is nice for very little work Twisted Evil

RAW23
Posted - 2011.02.22 03:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Well, to be fair, I am used to making accurate warnings that are never heeded Laughing
At least the trading profit is nice for very little work Twisted Evil


It would be nicer if a certain someone didn't keep capping the price Wink

It'll be interesting to see what happens once Akita's last 1.5mil units are sold. TECHAGEDDON!!

On another note, I had been carrying round the figure of 2bil per tech moon per month in my head for a while. But unless I've got something wrong in the calculations the figure is now actually over 6bil! And with 200+ moons in NC hands (?) just their tech income will provide them with 20 new Titans per month Shocked

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.02.22 06:09:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: RAW23
On another note, I had been carrying round the figure of 2bil per tech moon per month in my head for a while. But unless I've got something wrong in the calculations the figure is now actually over 6bil! And with 200+ moons in NC hands (?) just their tech income will provide them with 20 new Titans per month Shocked


More shocking is the fact that it's more profitable to use your time trading tech than actually emptying silos and hauling it. :)

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.02.22 08:44:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Petyr Baelich

More shocking is the fact that it's more profitable to use your time trading tech than actually emptying silos and hauling it. :)



bubbles - see enron

lots of that tech gets used each month to build stuff...
see the current prices of T2 ships

Julian Koll
The Kollektive
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:04:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Akita T
Well, to be fair, I am used to making accurate warnings that are never heeded Laughing
At least the trading profit is nice for very little work Twisted Evil


It would be nicer if a certain someone didn't keep capping the price Wink

It'll be interesting to see what happens once Akita's last 1.5mil units are sold. TECHAGEDDON!!

On another note, I had been carrying round the figure of 2bil per tech moon per month in my head for a while. But unless I've got something wrong in the calculations the figure is now actually over 6bil! And with 200+ moons in NC hands (?) just their tech income will provide them with 20 new Titans per month Shocked


30 * 24h * 100 Tech/h = 72k Tech/m -> 72k * 90k = 6.48b --> minus fuel, logistics etc

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.02.22 17:04:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: RaTTuS
Originally by: Petyr Baelich

bubbles - see enron

lots of that tech gets used each month to build stuff...
see the current prices of T2 ships


Trading it, not speculating on it. There's almost always a nice little margin between buys/sells on tech and plenty of movement.


Gothmog
RedBull War Toys
Posted - 2011.02.24 23:13:00 - [10]
 

Why is this CCP problem?

If NC has most the moons, they other alliences need to pew pew more and remove NC from moons.

Its this stuff that makes eve intresting.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.02.24 23:25:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 24/02/2011 23:37:49

Originally by: Gothmog
Why is this CCP problem?

Quick history lesson : the Dominion material requirements change was made at all in the first place is because CCP publicly stated they DO NOT LIKE to have any major "point ISK sources" (there's a blog using more or less those words, other stuff too), so they wanted to have most of the moon minerals valued relatively low individually and not too far apart from one mineral to another (that is, ideally, the most expensive ones would not be more than one order of magnitude from the least expensive ones, or thereabouts anyway).


Not our words, their words:

"[...] point source revenue streams have been a constant issue and one that plagues us today. Still, they end up being many magnitudes larger than the potential profit of the diffuse income streams, especially where the effort or cost is minimal and fixed.
Point sources do act as geographical conflict drivers, true, but in both cases the issues arose because they were infinite sources, but, more importantly, they required very few people to operate them proportional to the benefit they bestowed.
In a game where the focus is on the sandbox and social interaction, this is generally bad as you have proverbial gold mines held by the few who no longer need the diffuse income streams of the many to fund themselves with and a cost/benefit ratio which redefines strategic assets as practically disposable items.
The ripple effects here are the most devastating in our eyes as it redefines how our precious playground is ruled and we need to ensure a stage where the props are fair and fun and anyone who tries can have a chance for great glory or astounding defeat
[...]
We quickly discovered the next bottleneck with Tech II production after invention was introduced was the static supply of moon minerals against a growing playerbase and a dynamic demand. The effect of this system has reared its ugly head with rapidly increasing prices and, therefore, moon values for the limiting factor materials. It is something we looked to tackle previously with the introduction of alchemy reactions. This was partially successful, but missed the mark in achieving the desired effect we were looking for.
The core issue is the very high value of the promethium and dysprosium moon materials which create a massive point source passive income and, to some extent, uneven demand with the other relatively cheap moon materials. Our proposed changes, therefore, target the distribution of this demand in a more direct way than alchemy achieved.
The profitability of alchemy and the initial values are all determined from current market value in reality (it is either profitable or not). With the above changes, alchemy reactions become unprofitable. The output will be changed, although this will need further tweaks to ensure there is an effective overflow pipe to respond to future market changes.
"


In other words, they failed to do what they expressly specified they set out to do initially.
They failed to make the "passive point income sources" more or less the same order of magnitude, they only bought less than one year of relative normality while the value shifted from one set of valuable moon minerals (sysp/prom) to a second set (tech/neo).
They also heavily buffed alchemy, and for neodymium it might actually be a good thing and limit its price to some degree (not so good lately after POS fuel prices increased so much, but still a limited)... but the big problem is, alchemy for technetium DOES NOT EXIST, at least not yet... and regular alchemy in spite of the heavy boosting is basically pointless.

So you bet it is CCP's problem, they claimed it as their own 16+ months ago, and they failed to live up to the challenge in spite of repeated warnings and ample time to see the effects in action.

Alexi Komanov
Posted - 2011.02.25 04:00:00 - [12]
 

Honestly the tech is the only thing keeping the DRF from overrunning NC's line.

Natasja Podinski
Posted - 2011.02.25 06:52:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Gothmog
Why is this CCP problem?

If NC has most the moons, they other alliences need to pew pew more and remove NC from moons.

Its this stuff that makes eve intresting.



this is true.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.02.25 09:09:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Natasja Podinski
Originally by: Gothmog
Why is this CCP problem?

If NC has most the moons, they other alliences need to pew pew more and remove NC from moons.

Its this stuff that makes eve intresting.



this is true.


No, it's not. If an alliance has all the cash cows plus bots, they will really, really need to bork something very grand to lose to other alliances who only have bots.

Slutty McEasy
Posted - 2011.02.25 10:35:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: ****ty McEasy on 25/02/2011 10:38:39

Originally by: Alexi Komanov
Honestly the tech is the only thing keeping the DRF from overrunning NC's line.


Not really.. the Russians generally have major time zone issues which is why they (you) use PL and other assorted entities to cover the TZ gap (which is the size of a small moon).

I.e. if the NC sets all of their outpost/hub timers in the middle of the night moscow time, the DRF has to get their collective carcasses out of their nice warm toasty beds on a regular basis. Combined with the Easter bunny currently hopping around 0.0 laying outpost eggs everywhere, it becomes a very VERY tedious process.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.02.25 11:23:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Alexi Komanov
Honestly the bots are the only thing thanks to which DRF have the capfleet that is being used against NC


Fixed that for you.

Also they are FAR from overrunning anything.
Also moon mining in general needs a rework.






Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.26 15:21:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Natasja Podinski
Originally by: Gothmog
Why is this CCP problem?

If NC has most the moons, they other alliences need to pew pew more and remove NC from moons.

Its this stuff that makes eve intresting.



this is true.


No, it's not. If an alliance has all the cash cows plus bots, they will really, really need to bork something very grand to lose to other alliances who only have bots.


They have to kill 20 titans a month just to break even?Laughing

Fulbert
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.26 15:25:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Fulbert on 26/02/2011 15:26:16
Alliances get too much money from dyspro...technetium moons
or ordinary people have too much money to spend for tech 2 stuff?

Puss Nectar
Posted - 2011.02.26 23:33:00 - [19]
 

Give R64 moongoos a shelf-life, after that they should break down to common minerals. Those are fissionable materials, check the periodic table.

It is just insane that unstoppable superpowers emerged from controlling highend-moons because CCP failed to do this years before. Really affects zerosec gameplay in a bad way if you are not part of the 2-3 powerblock.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.02.26 23:41:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Puss Nectar
Give R64 moongoos a shelf-life, after that they should break down to common minerals. Those are fissionable materials, check the periodic table.

First off, that's a brand new mechanic in-game, one that's NOT supported by the current inventory system.
That already makes it highly unlikely it will ever be implemented, let alone the fact that it would solve absolutely nothing anyway even if it would ever be implemented.
If anything, that would make their prices go up higher faster, which is the exact opposite of what you're trying to accomplish. They'll just need to be reacted or unloaded before they expire, so any older unreacted stockpiles would be obliterated, and any small strangulation in supply levels (ownership change) will send it skyrocketing.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.02.27 03:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Fulbert

Alliances get too much money from dyspro...technetium moons
or ordinary people have too much money to spend for tech 2 stuff?


I underlined the correct answer. :)

-Liang

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.27 04:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Point14
U mad bro?


how original...

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2011.02.27 09:23:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Alexi Komanov
Honestly the tech is the only thing keeping the DRF from overrunning NC's line.


Nah, in 0.0 it's numbers game. Who brings the bigger blobs consistently wins. And NC has atm bigger blob in combination of shorter supply lines to the combat zone. Ofc the ungodly amounts of tech isk flowing in allow NC to run rather generous reimbursement schemes so their more active pilots in fleets have more "stamina" than they otherwise would have in fleets. Then again if one believes the articles published in EVE News then then DRF side is quite well compensating with the .... "automated help" ... that it has about 20% of it's iskmaking population.

Natasja Podinski
Posted - 2011.02.27 15:04:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Barbara Nichole
Originally by: Point14
U mad bro?


how original...


u mean classic?


 

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