open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Cyno effect changes. "When" we die of old age. CCP response requested.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Zia Aiz
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.02.21 05:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Zia Aiz on 21/02/2011 05:28:13
Many people would like to see CCP replace the current cyno effect with the old or a new and better one.

**Petition**For Bringing back the OLD cyno EFFECTs IMMEDIATELY (WHEN?)
Capital Jumping: Return old effect or create a stronger one.

The above 2 posts together have more than 1800 replies and most if not every single reply supports the topic.
I'm not going to start looking for any negative response, because i'm sure ill get bored searching before i find any.

Why do i bring this up in general?

Because me and i'm sure many other people would like to hear CCP's current response on this massively supported topic.

Originally by: CCP Abathur
While I do not know exactly what is being done, the last time I spoke to someone in graphics I was assured that this is being addressed and that the end result will be "more better awesome mozo cool". You may all proceed to spam the "WHEN?!" button, but that's all the information I have at this time. :)


Source: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1021733&page=17#486

This reply was written about 1 and a half year ago.
Does CCP Abathur even still work for CCP? Since i don't see an updated avatar and no recent forum/blog activity.

Anyway, the massive support is there, it's been almost 2 years (that is > 18 months) since these topics were created.

CCP, are you still planning to change this, are people supporting this topic wasting their time and why hasn't it been implemented yet?


For people who don't know how the old cyno looked like, here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e43qycXfxxc&t=1m40s
The current cyno just looks like a gate jump.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.21 05:29:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Zia Aiz

Does CCP Abathur even still work for CCP?


Nope.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.02.21 05:29:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 21/02/2011 05:29:46
from the CSM minutes from the december 2010 summit, part 3.

Quote:
It was mentioned that CCP has hired an effects artist (a specialist), who starts in a month. So old effects will be iterated - cyno effects and trails will be high on the list.


now you just have to get them to deliver(tm).

Zia Aiz
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.02.21 05:53:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Zia Aiz on 21/02/2011 05:54:18
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate

from the CSM minutes from the december 2010 summit, part 3.

Quote:
It was mentioned that CCP has hired an effects artist (a specialist), who starts in a month. So old effects will be iterated - cyno effects and trails will be high on the list.


now you just have to get them to deliver(tm).


That's not to long ago, thanks for the info.

Any idea what his CCP name is?
Would be nice to know if he puts up any blogs in the future.

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.21 05:54:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 21/02/2011 06:03:04
Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 21/02/2011 05:56:45
Yes, the old cyno was awesome, and it would have been nice if CCP simply kept/restored the old effect. The new cyno effects are quite underwhelming. But odds are that they won't change anything.

The case for variable-size fonts for the UI should be insteructive. CCP allegedly hired a "font guy" specifically to design new [presumably] variable-size fonts for the user interface. That was over a year ago. See Section 7 on page 16. Granted, the issue seems to have more to do with the way the UI windows themselves are designed, from what little can be gleaned on the matter, and so odds are that a proper redesign of the fonts will require a complete overhaul of the entire UI, but the lack of information on that front despite repeated requests should be telling.

Also look at Section 6.2 of the above for another rather amusing item that was resolved only when it began to interfere the viability of Incursion pick-up fleets.

Basically, don't hold your breath, no matter how many folk ask for a change. CCP is sort of like a glacier when it comes to many things; it will look at them when it wants, at the pace that it wants.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.02.21 06:06:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Zia Aiz
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
from the CSM minutes from the december 2010 summit, part 3.

Quote:
It was mentioned that CCP has hired an effects artist (a specialist), who starts in a month. So old effects will be iterated - cyno effects and trails will be high on the list.

now you just have to get them to deliver(tm).

That's not to long ago, thanks for the info.

Any idea what his CCP name is?
Would be nice to know if he puts up any blogs in the future.

Well, he was hitting the ground running with engine trails and cyno effects as top priority.
How long does it take a specialist in the field to deliver?
How long does it take average qualified joe to cook something up if he's supposed to deliver and loose his job if he doesn't?
I expect peeks on it during FF11 (any one of the top dogs have this in their 'look what we got coming for you soon™' presentation) and to see it on Sisi/TQ 3 months later. I mean, once it's done and works and the bugs have been nailed it's a small client patch..

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.02.21 06:15:00 - [7]
 

+1

Black Omne
Caldari
Freedom-Technologies
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.21 06:16:00 - [8]
 

On a related note, I have not done any missions in quite some time, and I did a couple and noticed the acceleration gate effect was removed at some point. When did that go away??? I thought it was cool when you activated a gate the energy tendrils would reach out for your ship, plus it also made it easier to see when one of your gang activated the gate...

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.02.21 06:25:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Black Omne
On a related note, I have not done any missions in quite some time, and I did a couple and noticed the acceleration gate effect was removed at some point. When did that go away??? I thought it was cool when you activated a gate the energy tendrils would reach out for your ship, plus it also made it easier to see when one of your gang activated the gate...



its more of a woosh effect now

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.02.21 06:35:00 - [10]
 

Cyno effects, the energy latches of warp gates, and trails from orbiting frigs are some of the iconic memories I have from when I started playing. CCP should get on this asap (knock on wood).

James Tiberius Kirk
Posted - 2011.02.21 07:39:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: James Tiberius Kirk on 21/02/2011 07:41:06
We have top men working on it right now™. Top™. Men™.

Zia Aiz
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.02.21 14:26:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Zia Aiz on 21/02/2011 14:28:24
Searching the dev finder, these seems to be the employees who are currently working on art/graphics.



All of them have activity dating back around a year or more in blogs/threads.

So i wonder, who would the new specialist? Has he/she been introduced yet?
According to the CSM summit he/she should be hired by now.

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.02.21 14:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Xercodo
Originally by: Black Omne
On a related note, I have not done any missions in quite some time, and I did a couple and noticed the acceleration gate effect was removed at some point. When did that go away??? I thought it was cool when you activated a gate the energy tendrils would reach out for your ship, plus it also made it easier to see when one of your gang activated the gate...



its more of a woosh effect now


I noticed a lot of poopy changes after Apocrypha, a lot of cool stuff was removed.

Valari Nala Laetizia
Posted - 2011.02.27 00:43:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Valari Nala Laetizia on 27/02/2011 00:43:42
Originally by: Joe Skellington

I noticed a lot of poopy changes after Apocrypha, a lot of cool stuff was removed.


They changed the jumping effects and the old jump effect was no longer possible with the new code changes or something.


Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.27 01:05:00 - [15]
 

tbh they need to bring back like 90% of the effects that were removed when apochrypha came.

I mean, remember the cloaking effect that was actually totally awesome and cool? The one that shrouded the ship from front to back? Then you have the cyno effect, and the old capital jumping effect. those were awesome.

and engine trails.



now all the effects were done by someone that was obsessed with spheres. Even the old web effect was better than this one.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.27 01:57:00 - [16]
 

…not to mention the old ECCM effect (i.e. nothing), the old sebo effect, pretty much all of the old ewar effects and remote-support effects.

I suppose they can keep the tractor and salvage effects, but the rest need to be binned. ECCM in particular.

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.27 07:24:00 - [17]
 

Some of the new effects are quite nice. Others look like they were put in place simply because the art department had a mandate to redo those effects within a certain time frame regardless of whether they were actually better or worse than the old. For example, the new sensor booster effect looks fairly decent on most subcapital ships. But it looks rather awful on capital ships. Not only does the blatant clipping look extremely bad on that scale, but the entire effect suddenly feels wrong because it looks as though the 'rays of light' are going through the ship, rather than being emitted from it. I don't even have to remind that multiple sensor boosted ships can be physically painful to look at.

On the other hand, I like the current remote shield, cap, and armor transfer effects.

Semel Khani Ursinis
Posted - 2011.02.27 07:50:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Joe Skellington


I noticed a lot of poopy changes after Apocrypha, a lot of cool stuff was removed.


I suspect performance to be the reason behind the changes. Particle effects can be very expensive.

Commander TGK
Gallente
The Deep Space Armada
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:15:00 - [19]
 

Supposedly the new specialist has already been at work on the new effects. I suspect what the poster above mentioned is correct. The said effects might be very performance costly if not done correctly, so a skilled artist is needed to maximize both appearance and performance without sacrificing either. I for one would rather CCP take time on things like this (as long as it IS actually being worked on) rather than them rushing crap out and breaking the server.

Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
Posted - 2011.02.27 11:19:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Black Omne
On a related note, I have not done any missions in quite some time, and I did a couple and noticed the acceleration gate effect was removed at some point. When did that go away??? I thought it was cool when you activated a gate the energy tendrils would reach out for your ship, plus it also made it easier to see when one of your gang activated the gate...


Yeah it was very nice 'slingshot' effect, no idea why they removed it.

Abon
Caldari
Pandorum Research Incorporated
Posted - 2011.02.27 12:29:00 - [21]
 

I agree, CCP took out a lot of nice visuals with Apoc and slapped the WH/Jumpgate Effect on pretty much anything. ugh

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.02.27 13:46:00 - [22]
 

I don't think we could even trust any CCP member that replies. They've lied multiple times about "We're working on it" when they obviously haven't. It didn't take them a ****ing year and a half to make the first cyno graphics now did it?

AKA, CCP doesn't give a ****. They took out something popular, put crap in it's place, and said "**** you, live with it"

Josefius
Gallente
JOKAS Industries
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:29:00 - [23]
 

I agree, the level of detail has been omitted ever since Apocrypha. It's kind of like the difference between the old characters and the new, sure the graphics are cooler and all, but the small details that made it cool are gone. (unique race accessories, clothes etc.) Instead most everyone gets the Brutor Tribe sunglasses.

Valari Nala Laetizia
Posted - 2011.02.27 14:37:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Commander TGK
Supposedly the new specialist has already been at work on the new effects. I suspect what the poster above mentioned is correct. The said effects might be very performance costly if not done correctly, so a skilled artist is needed to maximize both appearance and performance without sacrificing either. I for one would rather CCP take time on things like this (as long as it IS actually being worked on) rather than them rushing crap out and breaking the server.


Yeah, right Rolling Eyes, next CSM it's going to turn out, "we didn't hire that guy after all".

Either it's to low on their priority list, which it shouldn't be or,
can't find a good enough graphics/artist worker, which is an excuse getting milked to long now.

After this much time it's no longer a question of how, it's a question of effort.

Originally by: Semel Khani Ursinis

I suspect performance to be the reason behind the changes. Particle effects can be very expensive.


I find it hard to believe this day & age generating some effects can be this much trouble.

Sure it's a sandbox game, you jump in 200 caps on the same grid at the same time and the whole node might crash cuz of the effect.
If that is true i would suspect the graphics are run on the server side?

If server side, could let the clients handle it or part of it, based on the ability of the graphics card show more or less.

Restrictions, like no more than 20 effects shown within 10 consecutive seconds on the same grid.

I'm sure CCP can think of better ways, if they only put their minds to it for a minute.

Zia Aiz
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.02.27 23:19:00 - [25]
 

Suppose i could make a petition and ask that they respond on the forum.
But is that even allowed?

I do remember that i am not supposed to discuss anything that has been said in a private convo with a GM in public or something.

But suppose i could ask a GM to request an official dev reply to this thread?

Imho people are entitled to have an answer about something CCP "assured us is being addressed" (to put it in CCP Abathur's words), a year and a half ago.
Starting to wonder if that guy CCP supposed to hire is even hired.

There seems to be a general lack of CCP on the forums right now, that probably has to do with fan fest.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.02.28 01:12:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 28/02/2011 01:33:14
Originally by: Valari Nala Laetizia
*snip*
Originally by: Semel Khani Ursinis

I suspect performance to be the reason behind the changes. Particle effects can be very expensive.

I find it hard to believe this day & age generating some effects can be this much trouble.

Sure it's a sandbox game, you jump in 200 caps on the same grid at the same time and the whole node might crash cuz of the effect.
If that is true i would suspect the graphics are run on the server side?


If server side, could let the clients handle it or part of it, based on the ability of the graphics card show more or less.

Restrictions, like no more than 20 effects shown within 10 consecutive seconds on the same grid.

I'm sure CCP can think of better ways, if they only put their minds to it for a minute.

/me hits the buzzer *hooot*
Er, wrong there.
Any rendering is done client side.. the server does the whole DB/space simulation stuff.. nothing graphically (except for the one dedicated machine that renders the portraits) Cool
If graphics are the cause of a bottleneck then it's the clients CPU/GPU/RAM and henceforth everybody engaged in fleet-fights is trying to reduce the graphics load on his machine in those scenarios (no effects, zoomed out, low number of brakets, etc. pp.)

The clients would even be able to render cute and OMFG missiles/torps emanating from special launch pods on your ship (or that of others) and hurdling in wild manoeuvres towards the target and hitting it in several places, where as the server does a simple straight line for damage calculations..
All client side. Just for OFMGTHATLOOKSSO****INGORGASMIC.. yet, here we are.

Yes, there are several discussions going on regarding this.. for example:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1425051/page/1#1
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1473387/page/1#1
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1241677/page/1#1
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1241846

Valari Nala Laetizia
Posted - 2011.02.28 04:48:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer

/me hits the buzzer *hooot*
Er, wrong there.
Any rendering is done client side.. the server does the whole DB/space simulation stuff.. nothing graphically (except for the one dedicated machine that renders the portraits) Cool
If graphics are the cause of a bottleneck then it's the clients CPU/GPU/RAM and henceforth everybody engaged in fleet-fights is trying to reduce the graphics load on his machine in those scenarios (no effects, zoomed out, low number of brakets, etc. pp.)

The clients would even be able to render cute and OMFG missiles/torps emanating from special launch pods on your ship (or that of others) and hurdling in wild manoeuvres towards the target and hitting it in several places, where as the server does a simple straight line for damage calculations..
All client side. Just for OFMGTHATLOOKSSO****INGORGASMIC.. yet, here we are.

Yes, there are several discussions going on regarding this.. for example:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1425051/page/1#1
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1473387/page/1#1
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1241677/page/1#1
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1241846



TL;DR: I fail to see performance being a hard nut to crack.

Eh, you are right, i had it wrong on the graphics happening on the server, not sure what i was thinking there, think i didn't have my coffee yet.

In short, executing a cyno jump would probably look more like this:

02:12:?? Client lets server know player wants to jump and gives details to server (system, source & destination coordinates, fuel, skills,...)
02:12:?? Server checks if jump is possible (fuel in bay, range possible, skills, not empire, ...) and delivers true to client when all checks are good.
02:12:?? Client receives true while server executes jump (loads player in system B), client loads graphics effects that go with it.

By that logic, the server tells the client to execute all effects that go with jumping a ship with command lines.
Since the graphical effect itself is executed locally on the client, the effect itself isn't related to the server or it's performance.

Client performance is a different thing, but who cares about that, people are usually smart enough to disable their effects in big fleets.
Still if needed, they could code the client not to overload itself when to many consecutive effects are called by the server in to short of a time frame on the same grid.

So, what CCP basically needs to do is, modify the file that contains the graphics, maybe add some client restriction code, release patch, let players install new file through patch, done.

Of course i could be all wrong here, feel free to point out if so.

The only challenge is probably to make a nice effect everyone loves, but i bet most people would be glad just to see the old one back.

cuchuliann
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.03 19:41:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 21/02/2011 05:29:46
from the CSM minutes from the december 2010 summit, part 3.

Quote:
It was mentioned that CCP has hired an effects artist (a specialist), who starts in a month. So old effects will be iterated - cyno effects and trails will be high on the list.


now you just have to get them to deliver(tm).


So, is he hired yet?

mkmin
Posted - 2011.03.03 19:52:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: cuchuliann
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 21/02/2011 05:29:46
from the CSM minutes from the december 2010 summit, part 3.

Quote:
It was mentioned that CCP has hired an effects artist (a specialist), who starts in a month. So old effects will be iterated - cyno effects and trails will be high on the list.


now you just have to get them to deliver(tm).


So, is he hired yet?


Holy jeebus folks, give it a rest. They've hired the guy. They are working out the code so that effects are easier to change rather than being integrated deep into the code. I don't particularly follow the topic, but even I know that CCP's already responded to the noise.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.03.03 21:00:00 - [30]
 

I miss old gate visual and sound effects :(


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only