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blankseplocked [proposal] Increase pvp combat by removal of warp scrams/disruptors
 
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xestria
Posted - 2011.02.20 23:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: xestria on 20/02/2011 23:36:49
Edited by: xestria on 20/02/2011 23:36:18

In battle, retreat is a tactical manoeuvre that is sadly missing in Eve. The reason one can't run away before one's ship is destroyed is warp scramblers/disruptor modules.

Removing these items from the game has numerous benefits:

1. It will encourage more PVP because there is always the option to disengage and run away.
2. It wipes out the scourge that is the "1v1-bait" (you think you're getting a 1v1, but the other guy has 4 mates in faction cruisers waiting ready to warp in once you're aggressed). You can just make a run for it when they appear.
3. Following on from (2), 1v1 will be made easier
4. Following on from (3), more PVP combat
5. Hauling into lowsec will be easier

6. More people in lowsec
7. Following on from (4),(5),(6), more economic activity

Before the inevitble griefer-whine ensues, I would point out that other aggression mechanics such as can't dock/can't jump while the timers are active would still be in the game.


Aemmaria
Posted - 2011.02.20 23:51:00 - [2]
 

Meh, nothing to even laugh at.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.02.20 23:52:00 - [3]
 

Your proposal would further nerf solo and small gang pvp by requiring people to have enough ships to alpha a target so it couldn't simply warp away. Worst idea I've ever seen on these forums. 3/10 if trolling as it's hard to take this idea serious but it does make me want to smack you.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.02.21 02:25:00 - [4]
 

bumping this just because its so stupid.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.21 02:30:00 - [5]
 

Pointless pvp is pointless. Neutral

captain foivos
Posted - 2011.02.21 02:57:00 - [6]
 

While we're at it let's just take dying out of the game. That mechanic leads to nothing but tears and sadness.

Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
Posted - 2011.02.21 09:42:00 - [7]
 

Maybe you should actually try doing some pvp before you post about it and make a fool of yourself

Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.02.21 09:56:00 - [8]
 

I was actually quite sad this idea got support till I noticed who supported it and realised it was a troll support

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.02.21 11:29:00 - [9]
 

This idea is so bad it doesn't even warrant a serious reply, but there is also one point in the OP which makes the request totally unnecessary. Retreat isn't missing from EVE. It just isn't very likely if you're a blind fat man. So either use the intelligence tools available to avoid getting tied down when you aren't willing to fight, fit modules to break locks/kill the tacklers or fly a fast ship. Retreat is possible, but it just doesn't come without risks.

Point being you aren't asking retreating to be included in the game. You are asking to have the ability to escape from a fight in almost every situation. That is like taking the ability to prevent people from escaping a fight and removing it entirely from the game. Horrible idea.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.21 12:47:00 - [10]
 

If you dont like being tackled you can use any of an easy dozen options. There are actually more, but these are the most obvious:

1: Neutralisers to break the tackler's cap
2: Sensor damps to break his lock
3: ECM to break his lock
4: Deaggress and jump through a gate or dock
5: Use speed to get outside his tackle range (you will probably need tackle of your own to do this)
6: Kill or drive him off, using your 2 mid-slot advantage, your tackler
7: Use a cloak to avoid being tackled
8: Use a scout to avoid being tackled
9: Use the map to avoid dangerous systems
10: Bring friends so that you are an unattractive target
11: Use bookmarks and gatespots in combination with your onboard scanner to avoid being tackled
12: Use warp core stabilisers to avoid being tackled.

Doctor Invictus
Gallente
Industry and Investments
Posted - 2011.02.21 13:00:00 - [11]
 

Rather than discourage gangs from swooping in and taking out lone pilots in low/nullsec, I suspect it would actually encourage more of it. Without the ability to trap target ships, pirates would instead have to focus on popping them before they can warp out. The most likely way that they would do this would be to for mini-blobs, so the whole thing would be self-defeating.

Also, my understanding is that the devs want more ships to be lost to avoid asset accumulation, so this would be counterproductive in that sense.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.21 13:06:00 - [12]
 

Better idea. If you give me 900 trillion ISK I will PvP all the damn time. I will lose titans on gates. When I run out of ISK, give me another 900 trillion.

I guarantee there will be an increase in PvP going on.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.21 13:06:00 - [13]
 

Lets just take the full leap and divide into two servers, pvp and pve

Would that make you happy? Rolling Eyes

Mr Stark
Posted - 2011.02.21 15:21:00 - [14]
 

Xestria, you just made baby jesus cry...

Davie Bower
Posted - 2011.02.21 16:28:00 - [15]
 

Wow. Did you even think about the ramifications of your proposal? It is so stupid that the only thing I can think of that makes any sense is that your post is a troll.

"1. It will encourage more PVP because there is always the option to disengage and run away."
-- No, it would have the exact opposite effect. Why bother shooting if they are going to get away?

"2. It wipes out the scourge that is the "1v1-bait" (you think you're getting a 1v1, but the other guy has 4 mates in faction cruisers waiting ready to warp in once you're aggressed). You can just make a run for it when they appear."
-- Boo Hoo. Welcome to Eve. Don't play stupid and you'll survive.

Obviously you've been scrammed and destroyed because you've done something stupid. Rather than take responsibility for your own stupidity, you are going to try to garner support for altering a fundamental part of PvP. LOL.
"3. Following on from (2), 1v1 will be made easier
4. Following on from (3), more PVP combat"
-- You already said this, so it's kind of obvious that you've not put any thought into your argument.

"5. Hauling into lowsec will be easier"
-- by easier, if you mean boring, then yes.

"6. More people in lowsec"
-- Possibly, but why is this a good thing?

"7. Following on from (4),(5),(6), more economic activity"
-- With a massive reduction in the number of ships and items destroyed, it would have precisely the opposite effect.

Centri Sixx
Posted - 2011.02.21 16:38:00 - [16]
 

We need to do the reverse. Add a 60 second warp spool up! Every ship found in a belt needs to be destroyed! That will give much more pvp.

General Escobar
Caldari
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2011.02.21 23:07:00 - [17]
 

fit warp core stabs... die anyways!!!
Twisted Evil

Bejay Brutor
Posted - 2011.02.22 00:02:00 - [18]
 

While we are at it, why don't we just take out all weapons systems completely? OOh, i have a better idea!!! Why don't we replace the ammo with innocous stuffed animals and make laser weapons shoot out rainbows instead?!

Seriously tho, if PvP isnt to your liking, DON'T PVP!Twisted Evil

Ekserevnitis
Minmatar
Black Rise Security Division
Posted - 2011.02.22 01:27:00 - [19]
 

-1

Silen Boon
Posted - 2011.02.22 10:22:00 - [20]
 

A similar topic was posted on the Features forum a few months ago, and the comments where equally unfavourable. In the other post it was suggested that warp disruption would not be possible in low-sec. I can understand why people already resident in null and low would find this sort of change so upsetting because it would totally change the environment they operate in.

I notice that the comments here are much the same that were posted in the features forum. Most focus on the adapt or die, it would kill small gang PVP and whats the point if people can just warp off. Im not entirely sure that these comments are correct.

Adapt or Die
True, you can fit your ship so that you increase your chance of avoiding combat. But as every pirate who knows their trade, most fits can be easily countered. In many cases, just being faster than your target is enough to make a fight very one sided.

It would kill small gang PVP
I think this change would actually encourage solo and small gang combat. Given the option to run, I think more people will be willing to have a go. Granted, the chance of getting a kill are reduced, but I would hope the number of engagements would increase.

Whats the point if people can just warp off
Im going to assume that war-targets and criminals (bounty hunting anyone?) can still be scrammed. This means that legitimate (from a concord point of view) targets can be locked down and destroyed without mercy. I also think that some pilots will fight to the death, especially if the fight is close. Ive heard many stories of people choosing to stay and fight, even when they could warp off.

There are many negative aspects to a change like this. The piracy and ransoming professions would be severely affected. It would also be a very unwelcome boost to macro miners and macro ratters.

I dont support such a draconian change, but I do think that idea has some merit. Ultimately, we will never know how players will react to such a change until its on Tranquillity.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.02.22 11:11:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: TimMc
bumping this just because its so stupid.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.22 18:36:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Silen Boon
A similar topic was posted on the Features forum a few months ago, and the comments where equally unfavourable. In the other post it was suggested that warp disruption would not be possible in low-sec. I can understand why people already resident in null and low would find this sort of change so upsetting because it would totally change the environment they operate in.

I notice that the comments here are much the same that were posted in the features forum. Most focus on the adapt or die, it would kill small gang PVP and whats the point if people can just warp off. Im not entirely sure that these comments are correct.

Adapt or Die
True, you can fit your ship so that you increase your chance of avoiding combat. But as every pirate who knows their trade, most fits can be easily countered. In many cases, just being faster than your target is enough to make a fight very one sided.

It would kill small gang PVP
I think this change would actually encourage solo and small gang combat. Given the option to run, I think more people will be willing to have a go. Granted, the chance of getting a kill are reduced, but I would hope the number of engagements would increase.

Whats the point if people can just warp off
Im going to assume that war-targets and criminals (bounty hunting anyone?) can still be scrammed. This means that legitimate (from a concord point of view) targets can be locked down and destroyed without mercy. I also think that some pilots will fight to the death, especially if the fight is close. Ive heard many stories of people choosing to stay and fight, even when they could warp off.

There are many negative aspects to a change like this. The piracy and ransoming professions would be severely affected. It would also be a very unwelcome boost to macro miners and macro ratters.

I dont support such a draconian change, but I do think that idea has some merit. Ultimately, we will never know how players will react to such a change until its on Tranquillity.



Did you wake up, fall and hit your head?

Let me help you out bro:

If disruptors were removed there would be NO KILLS AT ALL.

Everybody is a ***** at heart, and nobody likes to lose ships. So its "Oh, hitting low armor, time to go". Everybody would just constantly warp off, so kills wouldn't be reduced, they would literally not happen at all, and on the off chance somebody DID die, you'd probably be laughed out of your alliance or corp, because "WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST WARP OFF".

I swear some of the ideas posted here are from bleach drinking ******s, cause this is the dumbest **** I have ever read in print.

Silen Boon
Posted - 2011.02.22 20:16:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Grath Telkin

Did you wake up, fall and hit your head?

Let me help you out bro:

If disruptors were removed there would be NO KILLS AT ALL.

Everybody is a ***** at heart, and nobody likes to lose ships. So its "Oh, hitting low armor, time to go". Everybody would just constantly warp off, so kills wouldn't be reduced, they would literally not happen at all, and on the off chance somebody DID die, you'd probably be laughed out of your alliance or corp, because "WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST WARP OFF".

I swear some of the ideas posted here are from bleach drinking ******s, cause this is the dumbest **** I have ever read in print.


I guess the red mist came down before you read the sentence that said the OP was NOT supported Very Happy

The only reason that I suggested the OP had merit was that if it was applied to 0.4 sec, for example, it could allow people to transition from hi-sec to low and null.


Sampanion
0ccam's Razor
Posted - 2011.02.24 23:13:00 - [24]
 

The nature of Eve is choatic. Personal weekness in the face of organised strength drives fudal society. If you were not at serious risk, you wouldn't need to get stronger, so you wouln't need to seek a way into a strong corperation or alliance. You wouldn't need to collaberate with others to survive and thrive.

This isn't about one mechanic of the game, it's about the game as a whole. The strong prey on the weak, the swift prey on the slow, the clever prey on the stupid. This is why we have the player power structures we do, great and small.

Some poeple think this game is about risk/reward; I think it's about risk/retribution. And a module change won't make any differnece to that. If there were no scrams or disruptors, high alpha or ultra high DPS ships would be waiting on every gate and you'd still get ganked.

You're missing the point of the game IMO. If you don't get ganked when you are helpless, how are you ever going to grow into a well rounded vengfull angry griefer?


 

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