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Umega
Solis Mensa
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:08:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Umega on 19/02/2011 04:09:17
Since you folks.. CCP.. are on this little tangent about reworking a bunch of little things in EVE, which I personally say 'Thank You For Doing So', I felt the need to bring up the notion of bringing Delayed wormhole-like Local to the rest of the EVE Universe.

Null/low/high.. everywhere.

The implementation of this would have several positive effects. Fun, being at the top of the list. Fun in making this a more scifi-sim game. Current tell all local provides strategic and vital information, for doing no work. No effort involved.. and this provides advantages to the lazy and the stupid. Rapid counter measures can be put into motion, simply by looking at local.. is this, 'working as intended'?

Imagine the effects on smaller gangs and their abilities to hit-n-run targets.

Black-ops given the chance to excel and do, what they were designed to do.

Using cov-op counters, scouts/recons, and maintaining gate camps.. not just to camp the gate for jonny-dumb-**** loner to get caught in a web.. but to actually maintain the security of their system/space/sector. This alone.. gives players, people more to play for. Instead of simply playing for a KM.. they are playing with more purpose. The protection of their home! So much more so this would be.. if not for the current local setup.

The strategic design that people could develop and unleash in Wars. There are many people that don't care for the cluster **** of bob-blob-wecrashyouwithnodecrack*****-****. Sure large and vast fleets are needed for variety of reasons.. but having knowledge of fleet location and movements without the need for spies and scouts is a joke. A fricken joke for warfare. Imagine what people could do.. if they send in small raids, small gangs to throttle the enemy over there.. then over there.. what is the defending force going to do? Which one is the main force and whats their target/objective? How are they going to handle it? If they don't have a proper defense network in place to know how many and where.. they are going to have issues. AND THEY SHOULD...

But that currently isn't the case. There is no mind games. There is very little strategy. EVE's current War tactics center more around checkers than chess.. -I hop your pieces, pop POS/sov, king me! Your turn, oh.. same move.. again!- and that's pathetic. When it has all the potential to be so much more..

With the implementation of Delayed Local.

And in reverse.. what this does for lowsec.. a small piece of security to venturing folks. Miners/missioners/explorers knowing that lowsec pirates/locals don't simply have to look at local, and notice an unknown-now-target is in system. This would give some incentive for more people to venture into lowsec, and in turn.. give the lowsec player what it wants, more targets.

Highsec.. Station Games. Wars in highsec are a pretty silly thing.. generally always one-sided that result in station games. Dock/camp, smack, yawn, goodnight. Rinse n repeat til war ends out of boredom.. hardly ever out of one side being an actual victor. Delayed Local would provide the means for fights to take place, new, better, more diverse strategies to be implemented by either side.. resulting in more highsec wars ending with the actual better corp winning.

In short.. Remove Local God Damnit!

INB4 - moved to F/I.

EDIT: Oh.. and the macro-rat issue. You don't want to ban them and keep making a buck off them, fine. Now give us the ability to kill them for you.

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:12:00 - [2]
 

only fun is for peopel doing the ganking then its no fun as no body does anything in 0.0 except fight. no mining or ratting except for certian cases liek large fleets and grnate dit would make people work more togetehr most would just run level 4 missions reason it works in womr hoel space is how hard it is to enter (you can't choose your target)

Umega
Solis Mensa
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:17:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: sableye
only fun is for peopel doing the ganking then its no fun as no body does anything in 0.0 except fight. no mining or ratting except for certian cases liek large fleets and grnate dit would make people work more togetehr most would just run level 4 missions reason it works in womr hoel space is how hard it is to enter (you can't choose your target)


Hmmm...

Could you please reformulate that response into a response, please?

I think I understand your drunk-text tho.. basically you're saying that people are too lazy to put up an kind of defense or effort into defending what it is they wish to do. They are perhaps, entitled to do whatever they want if it isn't attacking anyone? Meh. I'd say that's a pretty narrow, selfish view. Attackers wouldn't know who is in system.. unless they actually hunt/scout.. do keep that in mind if the vodka isn't too thick tonight. Works both ways.

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:20:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: sableye on 19/02/2011 04:20:18
Originally by: Umega
Originally by: sableye
only fun is for peopel doing the ganking then its no fun as no body does anything in 0.0 except fight. no mining or ratting except for certian cases liek large fleets and grnate dit would make people work more togetehr most would just run level 4 missions reason it works in womr hoel space is how hard it is to enter (you can't choose your target)


Hmmm...

Could you please reformulate that response into a response, please?

I think I understand your drunk-text tho.. basically you're saying that people are too lazy to put up an kind of defense or effort into defending what it is they wish to do. They are perhaps, entitled to do whatever they want if it isn't attacking anyone? Meh. I'd say that's a pretty narrow, selfish view. Attackers wouldn't know who is in system.. unless they actually hunt/scout.. do keep that in mind if the vodka isn't too thick tonight. Works both ways.


nah its easy for they just look at count in local on map, then send in covert ops to confirm then bring in the party :)

Jimmy Jazz
Warp Asylum Ltd
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:29:00 - [5]
 

Old topic, but personally I think it'd be great. For one it would provide a much needed boost to the chances of small gang and solo pvp (or at least give them a chance to avoid the blobs). It might also break up the larger alliances a little, or at least force them to constrict the space they hold.

Sadly however nullsec is ultimate carebear space and most can't stand the thought of their incomes being touched or somebody actually having a potential edge over their blobbing tactics. EVE used to be about a dark and dangerous galaxy, sadly it's now more about fielding huge blobs of bot financed supercaps.

Brahan Seer
Minmatar
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:30:00 - [6]
 

This is a terrible idea. But not as terrible as removing it completely. Why are some people obsessed with changing local? it's fine the way it is, it works.

Jimmy Jazz
Warp Asylum Ltd
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:32:00 - [7]
 

It's fine the way it is if you're a carebear, yes.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:34:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Jimmy Jazz
It's fine the way it is if you're a carebear, yes.


Carebears should hate it too, e.g. war targets.

I think the map statistics should be eliminated as well, there is no reason you should know those details. Perhaps they could show jumps at gates in systems you are friendly with, but otherwise, the less intel the better.

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:34:00 - [9]
 

its only a boost to small gangs for the first few days/weeks then its either profatible to move aroudn zero without a bomb or is;nt and the point it is;nt is the point small pvp gangs are worse off han they are now.

Jimmy Jazz
Warp Asylum Ltd
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:49:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: sableye
its only a boost to small gangs for the first few days/weeks then its either profatible to move aroudn zero without a bomb or is;nt and the point it is;nt is the point small pvp gangs are worse off han they are now.


It's hard to argue with a guy who is nearly incoherent but you are making me a little jealous since I'd like some of whatever you're drinking or smoking.

Anyway, I don't agree that people would start only moving in massive blobs (if that's actually your point). Blobs would possibly become more dangerous to fly with since you're so much easier to find for enemy scouts and they move much more slowly than small gangs. That increases the chances that a counter blob forms to actually come get you, whereas a small gang would most likely be gone before a huge counter fleet could be formed and roll out to find them.

What you'd actually end up with is a lot more small and medium gangs patrolling areas. It would also mean that all those pvp players had something to do (protect their space) rather than sitting on their hands waiting for a CTA blob to form up.


sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.02.19 04:58:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: sableye on 19/02/2011 05:11:19
well you seem to understand me :) but anyway I have played along time and I remember many years ccp broke local so it never worked and I lived in 0.0 at the time and I can tell you it was fun to kill people who you normally never would have been able to but after a few hours 0.0 grinded to halt except for gangs of people (the bigger the better) warping around. I will say it was only down 24 hours so maybe people never had time to adapt but it seemed to me like they did adapt but real fast and that was nothing but pvp was to take plcae in 0.0, these days you'd have moon ming as well of course but back then it never existed.

Jimmy Jazz
Warp Asylum Ltd
Posted - 2011.02.19 05:06:00 - [12]
 

Sure, but that was a knee jerk reaction to an emergency situation. After a short while people would get pretty bored of that because they wouldn't actually be able to find anything and while they're stumbling about in the dark small recon/hac gangs would be slipping past them and ganking stragglers and ratters and then vanishing before the blob could turn around.

Lots of smaller gangs is a far better model for protecting space in a no-local scenario, it might just take people a while to realise it. It might also cost alliances a few members, that'd be good as well, infact I'd go as far as saying it's one of the main pluses to the suggestion.

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.02.19 05:15:00 - [13]
 

just so its known as well I currently reside in empire so i don;t care if they change 0.0 although i do plan on going back there only started playing again recently and I do prefer the small gang warefare that the other posters are on about but the reality is its not local that kille dit its been 1001 other changes over the year including speed nerfs although I do admit there shoudl perhaps be a module (don't care which slot) that lets you evade local or at least delay it but here shoudl also be a module that lets you undelay it.

Jimmy Jazz
Warp Asylum Ltd
Posted - 2011.02.19 05:22:00 - [14]
 

Local didn't kill it, true, but it sure doesn't help it. Back in '04 when I started you simply didn't get huge blobs, there weren't enough players :) The increase in population is the problem (and people's natural risk aversion). There are lots of good ideas floating around as to how it could be changed but sadly I don't think CCP have the balls to upset the huge alliances that much.

Quantessa
Posted - 2011.02.19 06:17:00 - [15]
 

I think the problem with this is that it forces a very particular style of play that I don't think most people enjoy.

In W-space you have to check your scanner all the time. That's cool and it gives it a cat and mouse, hunter and hunted intensity. W-space is unquestionably a tremendous feature partly because of delayed local, the mystery enhances that experience.

But delayed local everywhere? Even in Jita you can't see if your war targets are in system?

It's a huge change which would I think see a lot of players throw in the towel. Bit like the NGE that devastated Star Wars: Galaxies.

Possibly it might have been good had it been implemented from the start. But wrenching a game that most players experience in a pretty casual non-intensive tv-watching chill-out way into something with the intensity of free for all deathmatch Quake is too drastic. Why would any commercial games development company want half their customers to unsubscribe?

Gideon Kross
Caldari
Kross Industries Ltd
Posted - 2011.02.19 06:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Quantessa
I think the problem with this is that it forces a very particular style of play that I don't think most people enjoy.

In W-space you have to check your scanner all the time. That's cool and it gives it a cat and mouse, hunter and hunted intensity. W-space is unquestionably a tremendous feature partly because of delayed local, the mystery enhances that experience.

But delayed local everywhere? Even in Jita you can't see if your war targets are in system?

It's a huge change which would I think see a lot of players throw in the towel. Bit like the NGE that devastated Star Wars: Galaxies.

Possibly it might have been good had it been implemented from the start. But wrenching a game that most players experience in a pretty casual non-intensive tv-watching chill-out way into something with the intensity of free for all deathmatch Quake is too drastic. Why would any commercial games development company want half their customers to unsubscribe?


It's possible to view what systems War targets are in in the EVE Map.

... I little remote recon goes a long way.

I think Global Delayed Local is a brilliant idea. Besides, if someone really wants to find out who's around them, it's nothing that can't be accomplished in a few minutes with a few combat probes.


Dani Nardieu
Posted - 2011.02.19 06:39:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Dani Nardieu on 19/02/2011 06:51:12
It's a bad ideea that has been rejected countless times before, delayed local only gives an advantage to the FPS rejects and everyone spamming the directional scanner all the time is not great gameplay, just a way to DDoS the EvE cluster Rolling Eyes.

People who OWN a system should be able to see when somebody is trespassing (at least through a structure that notifies the owners of gate jumps into the system). Intel should not be gathered by camping every single stargate all day.

Not being able to see where the enemy actually is because no such information is available except when you're on grid with someone does not lead to meaningful fights. Because you don't freaking know where your actual enemy is and neither probing or directional scanning shows corp, alliance or player information.
The only people who think it's a good ideea are wannabe pirate killboard hoes who don't care who they shoot as long as they can't run or shoot back, not people who have you know, reasons to fight particular people.

If you are in Empire Space you should have access to information as to who might be sitting in front of the station. Station games suck mainly because of station campers. Having to bring a neutral alt along any time you dock anywhere just so you can safely undock again would be ******ed.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.19 09:03:00 - [18]
 

Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.


Goloith
Posted - 2011.02.21 11:59:00 - [19]
 

I think it's hilarious that their is so many carebears out there, I mean you can see their tears already lol. Is it really that fricken hard to run your d-scanner? After all they put it in the game. Wormhole corps have no problem surviving because their pilots actually learn how to work together. At the moment people in 0.0 just solo sites and are just greedy ****s. What happened to comradery? There isn't any, just massive blobs their commanding officers force on them.

The only people that are against this are people that are just plan lazy, nothing else. Hell even as a carebearing miner you should want no local. You may ask why? Because your risking your ship and since you've decided not to be lazy and check your d-scanner prices for the ores you sell are increased do to the demand of minerals. All it takes is a quick Economic lesson to understand this benefits active people, however it hurts lazy ****s.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2011.02.21 15:56:00 - [20]
 

As was stated earlier on on this thread.... not everyone wants to be constantly spamming D-scan all the time before doing anything in game.

Yes it may be a carebear attitude, but to be honest a lot of people play Eve (and other games) for entertainment.

Constant dscan will not help anything.

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:21:00 - [21]
 

All thses endless whines about removing local are at this point nothing more then bad trolling. Well....

Your answer....

But I'll even go one step further, and show what you were really saying in your original post...

The implementation of this would have several positive effects. Fun, being at the top of the list. Fun in removing any thought or effort involved it getting cheap kills ganking miners and ratters who do not want to play my way. Having a delayed local provides obvious strategic advantage to the attacker, for doing no work. No effort involved.. ergo provides advantages to the lazy and the stupid pvper. is this, 'working as intended'?

As I so often here "elite" pvpers say, adapt or die. Touché

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:58:00 - [22]
 

Only on the individual player basis does nerfing the All-Seeing-Eye have bad consequences. For EvE as a whole it can only be a good thing. And that is what should be the focus.


 

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