open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked Arbelest Vs Siege Missle Launcher II
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Qui Rune
Posted - 2011.02.17 15:02:00 - [1]
 

Greetings all!

Can someone tell me the performance difference between these two launchers? I know the SML II takes more power grid and is T2..but performance wise I don't see the difference. Rate of fire seems the same too...

Thanks!

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.17 15:08:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Two Shots on 17/02/2011 15:11:57

The performance difference between the two is not apparent until you can actually use the Tech2 module. The skill which allows the use of the Tech2 module, Torpedo Specialization, offers a 2% rate of fire bonus per level to their use. This means that at Level 1 of the skill, the Siege Missile Launcher II has exactly 2% greater DPS than the 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher I. Tech2 launchers also allow for the use of tech2 ammunition, which offer either much greater range (Javelin Torpedoes), or much greater damage (Rage Torpedoes).

As you have correctly noted, many Meta4 items are as good as or better than their Tech2 counterparts due to their easier fitting requirements and similar performance. While in the case of weapons this is offset by the weapon-specific Specialization skills, many other modules are missing this dynamic. A wonderful example of this is the Target Painter II module versus the Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron. The Tech2 module uses more capacitor and requires more fitting resources than the Meta4, and has the exact same bonus to enemy signature radius; plus, one's abbreviation is TPII/TP2, while the other's abbreviation is PWNAGE. How cool is that?

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.02.17 15:09:00 - [3]
 

They have the same rate of fire. But the tech 2 variant is cheaper and harder to fit.

However the Tech 2 variant also get a bonus from the Siege launcher specialisation skill, so it will be better than the arbalest.

The Tech 2 can also use T2 ammo.


Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.17 15:10:00 - [4]
 

This topic pops out several times a week for different weapon systems.

The T2 gets the bonus from the specialization skills the best named does not.

Goes for all weapons folks make it a sticky Laughing

Qui Rune
Posted - 2011.02.17 15:10:00 - [5]
 

Thank you for that info...brain fart apparently.

I could use Faction ammo with the Arbelest until T2 is fully trained.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.02.17 20:26:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Qui Rune
Thank you for that info...brain fart apparently.

I could use Faction ammo with the Arbelest until T2 is fully trained.


You could. And that would help make up the difference for not using Rage. It wouldn't do squat to help you in situations where Javelin is important though. And the extra range on such a short range weapon can be really nice.

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:02:00 - [7]
 

If you don't plan using Rage/Javelin (aka T2 ammo) and money is not a real issue (aka we are talking PvE boats) you can go for faction Launchers and save on both fitting requirements + Skill points needed for maxing the spec skill.

T2 ammo give specific advantages (best possible dps or range) tho, and there is no walk-around for them.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: DeBingJos
But the tech 2 variant is cheaper
You must be thinking about arbalest heavy missile launchers as they are in the tens of millions per unit. Arbalest seige are around 600k whilst the t2 is around the 2.5 mil mark. Tbh unless you are specifically looking to use t2 missiles then the arbalest are generally better due to nearly identical dps and the much easier fittings as long as you have good skills.

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:07:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Sjugar on 18/02/2011 11:06:59
It's really easy, on your Golem or Raven Navy Issue train for and fit T2 torpedo launchers.

On your stealthbomber fit Arbalests. (though getting torpedo 5 still is good.)

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.02.18 18:13:00 - [10]
 

I've never liked Arbalests. Sure they are as good as T2, but they can't use the T2 ammo, which is the main reason why I personally train up the T2, and skip the Arbalest launchers. Also, the skill (As already mentioned) gives you bonuses as you train it up.
Just go for T2. It's worth it. Use something else in the meantime.

Arbalests are way overpriced too!

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.18 19:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Two Shots
This means that at Level 1 of the skill, the Siege Missile Launcher II has exactly 2% greater DPS than the 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher I.


not quite.

RoF bonuses don't translate directly into dps like damage bonuses, so 2% RoF actually equates to more than 2% dps.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.02.19 05:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
Arbalests are way overpriced too!
So 600k for an arbalest launcher which has for all intents and purposes nearly identical dps with faction torps vs 2.5 mil for a t2 launcher which does a tiny bit more dps but has identical alpha but much higher fittings is overpriced? Wait wat? Shocked

AGORAPHOBIC NOSEBLEED
Posted - 2011.02.20 18:36:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
Arbalests are way overpriced too!
So 600k for an arbalest launcher which has for all intents and purposes nearly identical dps with faction torps vs 2.5 mil for a t2 launcher which does a tiny bit more dps but has identical alpha but much higher fittings is overpriced? Wait wat? Shocked


<< HEY!! its the "Hide your kids, Hide your wife" guy!


stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.20 19:20:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
Arbalests are way overpriced too!
So 600k for an arbalest launcher which has for all intents and purposes nearly identical dps with faction torps vs 2.5 mil for a t2 launcher which does a tiny bit more dps but has identical alpha but much higher fittings is overpriced? Wait wat? Shocked


Javelin torpedoes. They are why T2 is many times better than Arbalest.

That 2% rate of fire bonus for T2 launchers translates into an 11.2% increase in DPS at skill V. Or an 8.7% DPS bonus at skill IV.

And if you're into Alphas, Rage torpedoes can get you another 11.4% increase in damage over faction (assuming your can dramatically increase the sig size of your target.) Plus if you're worried about alphas, you can get the same alpha with a super cheap meta 0 launcher.


Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.02.20 23:45:00 - [15]
 

Arbalests + Stealth Bombers = <3

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.02.21 03:13:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
Arbalests are way overpriced too!
So 600k for an arbalest launcher which has for all intents and purposes nearly identical dps with faction torps vs 2.5 mil for a t2 launcher which does a tiny bit more dps but has identical alpha but much higher fittings is overpriced? Wait wat? Shocked


Javelin torpedoes. They are why T2 is many times better than Arbalest.

That 2% rate of fire bonus for T2 launchers translates into an 11.2% increase in DPS at skill V. Or an 8.7% DPS bonus at skill IV.

And if you're into Alphas, Rage torpedoes can get you another 11.4% increase in damage over faction (assuming your can dramatically increase the sig size of your target.) Plus if you're worried about alphas, you can get the same alpha with a super cheap meta 0 launcher.


And in the context of a gang that tiny bit of extra dps is meaningless. Hell even in the context of a mission its still pretty much meaningless as the bit of extra dps isn't going to take an extra volley off of the targets though I will admit that t2 rage has a small useful niche for those that use lol missile spammers to run missions. It's like debating which is more damaging. A flamethrower to the face or a napalm strike. Both are going to instantly turn you into a crispy critter but hey if you want to toss around eft-peen numbers then by all means be my guest. These are the forums after all. Very Happy

Love Denied
Gallente
Caldari Stainless Steel industries
Posted - 2011.02.23 17:46:00 - [17]
 

Torp spec 5 or nothing!

Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:32:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
And in the context of a gang that tiny bit of extra dps is meaningless. Hell even in the context of a mission its still pretty much meaningless as the bit of extra dps isn't going to take an extra volley off of the targets though I will admit that t2 rage has a small useful niche for those that use lol missile spammers to run missions. It's like debating which is more damaging. A flamethrower to the face or a napalm strike. Both are going to instantly turn you into a crispy critter but hey if you want to toss around eft-peen numbers then by all means be my guest. These are the forums after all. Very Happy


The smaller your gang the more meaningful an increase in DPS is. Also there's this thing called sov warfare some of us do. Stealth bombers are actually pretty good for shooting structures, especially with rage torps.


Johnnydub
Posted - 2011.02.23 18:55:00 - [19]
 

T2 Torps really make a big difference in PvE - you need javelins...


IMHO the best fit for the golem is T2 torps + 2 T2 Missile Range Rigs. Then you get approx 65km range with Javs which you will use when missioning.

Additionally when up against Angels, Drones, Gallente / Serpentis the BS get in close, and you can three volley a BS with Rage Torps...

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:47:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu

And in the context of a gang that tiny bit of extra dps is meaningless.


Sure, sure, there's never a need to maximize your advantages in PvP, especially since 10% is such a tiny improvement. Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Hell even in the context of a mission its still pretty much meaningless as the bit of extra dps isn't going to take an extra volley off of the targets


Correct. An improvement to rate of fire doesn't improve volley damage. However, it does increase the number of volleys you can fire over time. A 10% rate of fire advantage means you can fire 10 volleys in the time it took you to fire 9 volleys.

Utterly useless improvement to DPS, yessiree.

Ruah Piskonit
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.24 01:23:00 - [21]
 

unless there is a fitting problem, t2 is always better then t1 of any meta for wepons. Period.

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.24 11:59:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
Arbalests are way overpriced too!
So 600k for an arbalest launcher which has for all intents and purposes nearly identical dps with faction torps vs 2.5 mil for a t2 launcher which does a tiny bit more dps but has identical alpha but much higher fittings is overpriced? Wait wat? Shocked


This is incorrect

A t2 launcher with the spec skill will get the ROF bonus ALL the time no matter what ammo you are shooting hence it will have 8% [at spec lvl4] then the arbalest launcher.
Only Scenario where the t2 is not the best is When you compare it to the Caldari Navy launchers and both are shooting T1 or Faction ammo.

Alpha will be indeed same but the DPS will be even more then the 8% difference. Cool

So if you can fir them USE the t2 All the time no matter the ammo you are using.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2011.02.24 12:44:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
unless there is a fitting problem, t2 is always better then t1 of any meta for wepons. Period.


this sums it up perfectly.

if you can fit "a better setup" because of the cpu, good for you, we'll just stick with that 10% more dps and t2 ammo options ;)

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.02.25 04:38:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 25/02/2011 04:42:43
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Ruah Piskonit
unless there is a fitting problem, t2 is always better then t1 of any meta for wepons. Period.


this sums it up perfectly.

if you can fit "a better setup" because of the cpu, good for you, we'll just stick with that 10% more dps and t2 ammo options ;)
Ignoring all the other emo replies about 'if you can fit t2 than ignore the arbalest' camp I will say that being able to fit some nice meta 4 mods that let you really pimp out the rest of your raven(or torp based) fit for a questionable loss of mission or pvp efficiency especially if you use faction ammo is the best way to go about 'solving' the issue. I have loads of nice bomber and torp based fits using arbalests because they have such uber fitting reqs vs the t2 varient. Yeah rage or jav is kinda nice in some very niche situations but tbh the vast majority of the time you will be shooting faction torps so getting to t2 is pretty much something to do when you have literally nothing useful left to train.

Originally by: AGORAPHOBIC NOSEBLEED
<< HEY!! its the "Hide your kids, Hide your wife" guy!
Not sure if serious. Confused

Amaroq Dricaldari
Amarr
Vengeance Industrial Militia
Posted - 2011.02.25 05:55:00 - [25]
 

How about a Navy Issue 'Arbalest' Siege Launcher III?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.25 07:34:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Amaroq Dricaldari
How about a Navy Issue 'Arbalest' Siege Launcher III?


You mean like the already existing Dread Guristas/Caldari Navy Siege Launcher?


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only