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Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.16 22:49:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Manalapan on 23/02/2011 20:13:36
Issue

Bounty Hunting is currently not a very viable career. Bounties are quite honestly a joke.

Solution

5 Million ISK is the minimum bounty
Bounties can only be placed on a Character with a Negative Security Status or that you have Kill Rights
DED Bounty Agents
Bounty Mission Lottery
DED Connections Skill
To claim a bounty you must get a Bounty Hunting Mission from a Bounty Agent. The mission will tell you the Bounty Value. After you accept the mission you will be given a target name and kill rights on that target. The objective is to destroy the targets ship (Yes, the kill rights from this missions let you do that in high sec). The reason you will not be told the Target Name until you accept the mission is to lessen the Friend Gathered Bounty that ruins the current system.

Now the Bounty Mission Lottery (couldn’t find a better name for it yet) is the process by which Bounty Missions are handed out. For every 5 Million ISK of your bounty is essentially a ticket for a mission for your head being drawn, and yes you can be drawn multiple times so you have several people hunting you. However, only one of them can collect, so whoever gets there first wins. There is also a time constraint for these Bounty Missions. If you complete the Bounty mission in 1 week you get 100% of the Bounty, 2 weeks 75% of the Bounty, 3 weeks 50% of the Bounty, 4 weeks 25%, and after that the mission expires.

DED Connections Skill. Rank 3 Social Skill that allows you to have 1 Active Bounty Mission per level. Bounty Missions can be rejected but should you reject it you are forced to accept the next offered Bounty Mission. Bounty Missions cannot be abandoned once you accept the mission, so you are stuck with that mission until you can collect the bounty or the mission expires. Also to help promote Bounty Hunting as a Career the higher your DED Agent Standing (the more bounty hunting missions you run) you can start picking from more than just 1 Bounty Mission. See Agent Standing Bonus (Campaign Page) for details.

When a ticket is drawn the target is notified of who drew their bounty mission and they also receive kill rights on their bounty hunters (This is to make it an even playing field). Whoever draws the mission is given the targets current location and the mission objectives.

Bounty missions are only given out for characters that are currently online. This is to lessen the occurrence of having to hunt a player in an opposite timezone.

Issues

Minimum Bounty might be too high.

Pros

Fixes the current Bounty System making Bounty Hunting a more viable Career.

Cons

Bounties are nearly 100% random so you can get someone in your alliance or someone very far away.

This is one of the most important ideas in my campaign. You can view the post on my capaign site at http://dyco-eve.com/manalapan/?p=87

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.02.16 23:08:00 - [2]
 

Yet another take on the topic du jour Very Happy

Giving rights on random people with low sec is not good. Most people who dabble in anti-pirate operations are flashy themselves due to nature of piracy/low-sec.
- Give people with KR the ability to submit it to the lottery and draw from available subjects.

Giving notification to target is fine, giving them reverse rights is not.
- You have already spent your load thus giving the person the KR in the first place. Prepare to be hunted.
Notification should be accompanied by the "standard" entry in character sheet but have the name of the hunter listed as having been hired by original victim.

Otherwise a sound plan. Not sure I like it, but sound nonetheless Smile

Kepakh
Posted - 2011.02.16 23:20:00 - [3]
 

While anonymizing and randomizing is valid way to prevent exploitation, it makes it very undesirable for Bounty hunters.

Bounty hunting isn't PVE. Bounty hunting like any PVP takes preparation and careful target picking, something very difficult to do in proposed system.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.02.16 23:27:00 - [4]
 

One could restrict the lottery draws on a regional basis to narrow the field. Most "real" pirates I have encountered are habitual sedentary creatures.

Problem is all the weekend pirates who spend their lives in the null chain-gangs and only come in from the fields for a few hours every week.

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.16 23:39:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Giving rights on random people with low sec is not good. Most people who dabble in anti-pirate operations are flashy themselves due to nature of piracy/low-sec.
- Give people with KR the ability to submit it to the lottery and draw from available subjects.



Currently as is you can place a bounty on someone with low security status anyways and we do not want to remove this. Currently if someone is -10 it does not matter no one will come to hunt their bounty (I know I have a -10 character). If someone is -5 or lower it does not matter if you have kill rights you can still try to kill them regardless if they are anti-pirate.
It is also not random someone must have placed a bounty on the player and then a bounty hunter must have randomly drawn that player as a target from a pool of other players with bounties already on them. Also, this method does not change the kill right system at all. I am intentionally separating them.

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Giving notification to target is fine, giving them reverse rights is not.
- You have already spent your load thus giving the person the KR in the first place. Prepare to be hunted.
Notification should be accompanied by the "standard" entry in character sheet but have the name of the hunter listed as having been hired by original victim.



Reverse rights are necessary as the bounty hunter effectively has no risk then and also since you no longer need to pod someone to collect the bounty there needs to be additional pressure against the bounty hunters. In the very least even pirates need to be able to actively protect themselves. If you know someone is trying to kill you wouldn't you try to kill them first?
I also think you missed the mission part. The victim is more hiring the bounty service (bounty missions) to kill the target and not the player directly.

I want to clarify that I am not changing the kill right mechanic at all. It works the same even if you put a bounty on someone you still posses the kill right. The reason for this is after much debate there needs to be something to punish the random hostile actions by players with even high security and retaining the kill right makes hostile actions riskier.

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.16 23:50:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
While anonymizing and randomizing is valid way to prevent exploitation, it makes it very undesirable for Bounty hunters.

Bounty hunting isn't PVE. Bounty hunting like any PVP takes preparation and careful target picking, something very difficult to do in proposed system.


You still have plenty of preparation time. I feel being able to completely pick your target makes the system too easy for bounty hunters regardless of exploiting.

I proposed that the target need to be online to attempt to line up timezones but in the region would make it too specific. A certain amount of travel is still viable.

Kepakh
Posted - 2011.02.17 00:11:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Manalapan

You still have plenty of preparation time.


Proposed system seems to me that it portraits bounty hunting as traveling across three regions, land on top of your target, pop it and collect the bounty. That is very naive(no offense).

Forcing the hunters to fight targets they know nothing about in an unknown area will not work, imo. PVP does not work that way.

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.17 00:39:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Proposed system seems to me that it portraits bounty hunting as traveling across three regions, land on top of your target, pop it and collect the bounty. That is very naive(no offense).


It isn't supposed to be easy for either of them. It can be a chance happening (stumbling into each other on a gate), or stalking with alts (or corp mates), or it could happen exactly as you described (however, unlikely).

The main difference is: It's not the current system, and it gives a bit more consequence to having a bounty on your head, and involves a risky investment for the Bounty Hunter (as it isn't for the meek).

Originally by: Kepakh
Forcing the hunters to fight targets they know nothing about in an unknown area will not work, imo. PVP does not work that way.


This is a very unique form of PVP. It gives the upper hand to the Bounty Hunter in that he can chose to hunt the target at his leisure (but also the target can also be the hunter, in a Han-shot-first mechanic as proposed), as well as the Bounty Reward.

To fix the bounty hunting system, the targets HAVE to be random. Otherwise the system can dissolve into what it currently is (a joke).

Kepakh
Posted - 2011.02.17 00:56:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Burseg Sardaukar

It isn't supposed to be easy for either of them.


It isn't about being easy, it is about being reasonable.

I lived in low sec and I know how essential is to know the area I live in. You are asking me to venture blindly into unknown waters and experience tells me this usually results in loss of my ship. You ask hunters to come down to pirates nest and play on his own playground, guess who will have upper hand there.

Just my opinion though.

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.17 01:06:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: Burseg Sardaukar

It isn't supposed to be easy for either of them.


It isn't about being easy, it is about being reasonable.

I lived in low sec and I know how essential is to know the area I live in. You are asking me to venture blindly into unknown waters and experience tells me this usually results in loss of my ship. You ask hunters to come down to pirates nest and play on his own playground, guess who will have upper hand there.

Just my opinion though.


No, I get your point, totally. There will be a lot of failed attempts. Especially when trying to hit the -10 dudes that are nestled. This is okay, and could lead to bounties growing over time. (And this mechanic will ensure this happens, as opposed to just having an alt pod you for it when it gets past the clone cost as it is).

So, if the bounties accumulate high enough (and through this mechanic it will happen), someone ballsy and skilled enough will rise to the moment and succeed. Taking out a bounty mission as a hunter would have its own risk implied with the ISK bounty(if it succeeds) as reward. And a target will have the upper hand of hanging in familiar territory if he choses, but there's only so much sitting in one spot a lot of people can take.

It'll be interesting to see where it all goes, to say the least. I feel a bunch of new players will just fail repeatedly and quit, but implementing some type of skill-point matching into the mission generation could potentially balance this.

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.17 19:23:00 - [11]
 

There will of course be many failed attempts. I think it would be good to look at skill point matching to counter new players getting some '04 player as a target.

It is important to point out that there are no punishments for failing or not completing a bounty mission for this reason. There is only a limit to the number of concurrent missions.

I think we should discuss the skill point matching concept. I feel that you should have an increased chance of drawing a target within your clone type but still possible to get someone with extremely more or extremely less skill points, so there is some risk with taking a mission.

ACESsiggy
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.17 19:58:00 - [12]
 

Hmmmm why not allow players to pay off Concord like corps do for wars? Instead of corp v corp thing, provide players one x amount of hours to kill another player. Prices can vary depending on the length of kill right you purchased. Provide a little sink hole in isk.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.17 20:11:00 - [13]
 

Already proposed, see

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1108165

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: ACESsiggy
Hmmmm why not allow players to pay off Concord like corps do for wars? Instead of corp v corp thing, provide players one x amount of hours to kill another player. Prices can vary depending on the length of kill right you purchased. Provide a little sink hole in isk.


That would be less like a bounty (in that someone will get a reward) and more like a pay-to-grief tactic instead. It would most definitely be exploited to hell, and wouldn't really have the bounty-hunting feel and more like a 1-guy-griefing-1-guy thing.

Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.17 21:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Already proposed, see

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1108165


I went through the 3 ideas classified as "Bounty [revised/hunting profession/etc]" and Manalapan's concept is the most concise and most "fun" and "fair" mechanic, with hunters and prey, that has the least potential of being exploited.

The closest example of a good idea is here:
Linkage

But it ties pay-out of a bounty to ISK destroyed, and it shouldn't be to that level. This system is more of a direct creation of a bounty-hunting profession and not just an extension of the current (broken) mechanic.

The other 2 links seem like trolls, or are just stating that Bounty Hunting is broken with no constructive solution. In fact, one idea was that a bounty should keep a player "banned" from the game at a rate of 1Bil a month or something. If anything, CCP Zymurgist should link this as an example of a good idea for the system.

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.18 02:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: ACESsiggy
Hmmmm why not allow players to pay off Concord like corps do for wars? Instead of corp v corp thing, provide players one x amount of hours to kill another player. Prices can vary depending on the length of kill right you purchased. Provide a little sink hole in isk.


This idea does not change kill rights at all and is a bounty hunting system so you get paid to kill ships not pay.

I also did read and commented on the other bounty hunting topics. All of them were too insistent on changing the kill rights system which is unnecessary and also not productive to a true bounty hunting system. The concept here was create balance as well as provide a non exploitable bounty system. Everyone needs to understand that I am NOT CHANGING KILL RIGHTS.

Gangster101 PureLove
Posted - 2011.02.18 02:41:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Burseg Sardaukar
Originally by: Kepakh
Proposed system seems to me that it portraits bounty hunting as traveling across three regions, land on top of your target, pop it and collect the bounty. That is very naive(no offense).


It isn't supposed to be easy for either of them. It can be a chance happening (stumbling into each other on a gate), or stalking with alts (or corp mates), or it could happen exactly as you described (however, unlikely).

The main difference is: It's not the current system, and it gives a bit more consequence to having a bounty on your head, and involves a risky investment for the Bounty Hunter (as it isn't for the meek).

Originally by: Kepakh
Forcing the hunters to fight targets they know nothing about in an unknown area will not work, imo. PVP does not work that way.


This is a very unique form of PVP. It gives the upper hand to the Bounty Hunter in that he can chose to hunt the target at his leisure (but also the target can also be the hunter, in a Han-shot-first mechanic as proposed), as well as the Bounty Reward.

To fix the bounty hunting system, the targets HAVE to be random. Otherwise the system can dissolve into what it currently is (a joke).


Yea, your right it is a bad idea but it sure sounded good at first :) Twisted Evil

Gnean Tyrova
Posted - 2011.02.18 03:17:00 - [18]
 

+1

For the most part sounds like a unique/new take on bounty hunting.

As an added comment with regards to the problem of not being able to find the target: I thought thats what the locator agents were supposed to do/help do ( haven't had much luck with them but haven't tried them enough times either ). Just my 2 cents in support of this topic.

Tairon Usaro
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.18 11:19:00 - [19]
 

well thought concept !

I would suggest one or two additions

1st) the target should not know who has kill rights for him, just that he is picked from the lotterie and a designated target for the next 4 weeks (notifications at the start and the end of the period just like wardecs). Everbody entering his system could be the BH, but he does not know until the BH opens fire. (also avoid logout/in games by the target based on watchlist)

2nd) i doubt that a single BH will be able to get a -10 pirate. Usually the pirates team up and live in an enviroment thats biased to their favour. How about lets say 3 license tags that are issued to the BH. Everyone who has the license tag has kill rights. once sucessful you get standing and mission reward for completed tags. If the BH turns in 3 tags, fine he gets full reward, otherwise he shares with his team members

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.18 18:45:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tairon Usaro

1st) the target should not know who has kill rights for him, just that he is picked from the lotterie and a designated target for the next 4 weeks (notifications at the start and the end of the period just like wardecs). Everbody entering his system could be the BH, but he does not know until the BH opens fire. (also avoid logout/in games by the target based on watchlist)


I do see your point to keep the target from logging out when a BH gets on, but I am concerned that not knowing who the BH is puts the target at too much of a disadvantage especially for targets that are not really low standing but more did a single malicious act and for the most part are just mission runners. Of course on the other hand it might be giving a -10 target advantage over the BH. Maybe something along the lines of your 2nd idea would better serve to balance this as they would not necessarily know the BH's buddies.

Originally by: Tairon Usaro

2nd) i doubt that a single BH will be able to get a -10 pirate. Usually the pirates team up and live in an enviroment thats biased to their favour. How about lets say 3 license tags that are issued to the BH. Everyone who has the license tag has kill rights. once sucessful you get standing and mission reward for completed tags. If the BH turns in 3 tags, fine he gets full reward, otherwise he shares with his team members


I do like this idea that you can have BH fleets though I am concerned it might make this too complicated. I will have to discuss but it removes a lot of the number imbalances. I will discuss this further with people in game to get opinions on it and see the pros and cons of this addition.

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.21 20:48:00 - [21]
 

I did discuss this in game and really think that the tokens makes this concept difficult.

I would be interested in hearing what everyone thinks about bounty hunters being able to know who the other bounty hunters are so they can work together (with even split bounty payouts of course).

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.23 20:28:00 - [22]
 

I updated the idea with Agent Standing Bonus. Let me know how this effects your thoughts.

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:43:00 - [23]
 

yes! Another great bounty fix.

Baaldor
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.03.08 22:57:00 - [24]
 

So lets say you pull, Tiller. Apparently he is no longer playing, but he might be keeping his character active and training. How exactly are you going to avoid blue balls on this one?

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
Posted - 2011.03.08 23:09:00 - [25]
 

Bounty Hunting would be quite a different business if the outlaw lost a random lvl5 skill each time he was podded... proportional to the bounty put on him (the higher the bounty, the higher the lvl5 lost upon death).

Currently bounties are a joke as anyone can kill himself and get the bounty. But losing something serious... oh, that would be another matter...

Would you pay 1 billion ISK for an enemy to lose a 10x skill at lvl5, worth months of training? Would you dare to mess with someone with that billion ISkies, ready to spend them in ruining your skills...? Twisted Evil

As you may notice, I have a feeling that the part of "punishment" in "Crime and punishment" in EVE online is very weak. The worst that could happen to a serious griefer, an absolute SOB, is to lose a clone with a nice set of implants, and maybe an expensive ship (very unlikely). Losing skills would put a seriousr risk ont eh table. You steal a corp ad next thing you know is you've been caught and your Small Energy Turret 5 is gone adn suddenly all the skills that depend on that skill no longer work...

You get the picture, it is cowardly cheap to grief and utterly useless to put a bounty on the griefers. Would be fun to see that change & half of EVE's "tough" PvPers emoragequit or start new careers... Laughing

Darth Cycotic
Posted - 2011.03.22 04:27:00 - [26]
 

i may have missed this somewhere on your forums, if i have im sorry, but has removing the bounty being notified that <INSERT PLAYER NAME HERE> has take your mission. I believe that just having a bounty on your should be all the warning you receive. Once you have a bounty on your head you should already assume there are people hunting you.

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.03.22 10:29:00 - [27]
 

I like it, i like it a lot. I’ve always wondered why the bounty is solely determined by one player placing a bounty on another players head... I think it would be good if NPC’s could also place a bounty on a players head. For example, if you attack someone in low/high sec without kill rights, an amount of isk is placed on your head.

I think being able to capture criminals is another interesting idea for ccp to look at.

Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
Posted - 2011.03.22 11:01:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Bounty Hunting would be quite a different business if the outlaw lost a random lvl5 skill each time he was podded... proportional to the bounty put on him (the higher the bounty, the higher the lvl5 lost upon death).

Currently bounties are a joke as anyone can kill himself and get the bounty. But losing something serious... oh, that would be another matter...

Would you pay 1 billion ISK for an enemy to lose a 10x skill at lvl5, worth months of training? Would you dare to mess with someone with that billion ISkies, ready to spend them in ruining your skills...? Twisted Evil

As you may notice, I have a feeling that the part of "punishment" in "Crime and punishment" in EVE online is very weak. The worst that could happen to a serious griefer, an absolute SOB, is to lose a clone with a nice set of implants, and maybe an expensive ship (very unlikely). Losing skills would put a seriousr risk ont eh table. You steal a corp ad next thing you know is you've been caught and your Small Energy Turret 5 is gone adn suddenly all the skills that depend on that skill no longer work...

You get the picture, it is cowardly cheap to grief and utterly useless to put a bounty on the griefers. Would be fun to see that change & half of EVE's "tough" PvPers emoragequit or start new careers... Laughing


Worst idea ever... What's the use of clones, then? ugh

Originally by: Baaldor
So lets say you pull, Tiller. Apparently he is no longer playing, but he might be keeping his character active and training. How exactly are you going to avoid blue balls on this one?

Maybe only someone which is active more than XXX hours a week should be pullable? But it would allow griefing because once the time limit known, all the pirate would just play that limited time, then log to another account/character... What if you're allowed to pull another target if the current one is less active than the time limit?

INTR3P1D
Posted - 2011.03.28 03:44:00 - [29]
 

waiting for all these long demanded fixes...

It might come? or just hold on next year>? it might swing by then..

cpp listens but they don't execute. CYNO effect has been boring for how many years? and so much more... I may quit for awhile until things in the game get more work. I'm pretty bored.


 

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