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Milky Wimpshake
Posted - 2011.02.16 08:56:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Milky Wimpshake on 16/02/2011 09:03:50
Okay, I'm about fed up with this form of dirty fighting and would like to attempt to get you nice folks at CCP to act on this. There's been complaints for the longest about Alts in newbie corps running around creating havoc all the while protected by Concord while in the security blanket of Empire. I don't have a problem with allowing that, however, I do feel that using such an alt to assist in combat should be an exploit; allow me to explain.

Corp A is at war with Corp B. Corp A uses an alt to gather intelligence on Corp B by scanning the ships cargo and loadouts. They also create BM's or are used as a warp to point for a fleet warp to jump into an egagement at a desired range (if ganged at the last second). Once combat ensues, the alts orbit the enemy vessels at close range and/or orbit their own fleet ships in hopes of getting hit with smartbomb damage, thus bringing Concord to assist in their fight.

This SHOULD be considered an exploit because:
1) The alts are clearly being used for military operations.
2) There are limited amounts of defensive weapons, especially for those flying in an Indy class ship, this activity negates the opportunity for defense without penalty.
3) The tactics are done to intentionally draw Concord into the battle to assist with their efforts against their enemies.

Abviously, the system is as it is for a reason, to protect the innocent bystandards. So, here are a few ideas I propose to combat this.

1) CCP isn't going to want to give back ships/items from anyone being hit by this exploit, hard enough to prove as it is. Easiest thing to do is make the SmartBombs even smarter. Have the SB only effect HOSTILES, those targets actually at a war condition, those that have fired upon you, or those criminally flagged. At least in empire space.

2) Provide more defense options that don't require an area of effect! Anti-missile drones, smarter defender missiles, missile bays and/or drone bays for Indy's.

3) Make scanning ships a hostile act. Would take care of the alt ship scanners, but can't say I'm really a big fan of this idea.

4) Create Temporary Combat Zone Declarations. Perhaps a launchable beacon declaring a large radius a termporary combat zone. Non-warring ships will have 30 seconds to vacate the area else be considered a valid target. The becon might read, "if you can read this, then you can be fired upon". A large visible semi-transparent sphere could outline the temporary combat zone. Such zones could last for 5-10 minutes, after which time the beacon self-destructs. This idea has a large potention for exploit as well, but thought it might inspire some thoughts from others.

I know there's going to be praisers and complainers about this one, but I think we can find a fair solution to this dirty form of gameplay.

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.02.16 08:59:00 - [2]
 

Fairness? In my EVE? Surprised

Zora'e
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:01:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Milky Wimpshake

SmartBombs

This is your problem. Stop using smartbombs.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:01:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Othran on 16/02/2011 09:02:16
Edited by: Othran on 16/02/2011 09:02:08
Originally by: Milky Wimpshake
Once combat ensues, the alts orbit the enemy vessels at close range and/or orbit their own fleet ships in hopes of getting hit with splash damage, thus bringing Concord to assist in their fight.


Don't use smartbombs then. That (and ECM burst) are the only area of effect weapons which work in high-sec.

/thread

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:09:00 - [5]
 

6/10

Isaac Apylon
Lobster Adoption Agency
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:16:00 - [6]
 

*Yawn*, another terrible alt complaint. How about you get your own alts? Or maybe not use smartbombs in frickin' hisec.

And your ideas are terrible. A combat bubble? Yeah, that would be great. Let's all go to Jita 4-4, drop a combat bubble, and feast on freighters. Twisted Evil

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Isaac Apylon
How about you get your own alts?


Very Happy

Wurzel Gummidge
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:26:00 - [8]
 

I smell another masternerdguy alt.

Jiitta
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:35:00 - [9]
 

Anyone with experience will know how smart bombs work and the risks of using them in empire and most things in Eve require some intelligence before using. If you are falling for this 'exploit' then you really should be looking at your wreck knowing it was all your fault.

There is no point changing a perfectly good mechanic just to suit your own needs.

Fat Willy
Posted - 2011.02.16 11:21:00 - [10]
 

So someone else puts their alts to better use than you do? Rolling Eyes

Watak Hunt
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:05:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Milky Wimpshake
Okay...........



Seems like a wizard wheeze tbh.

I Love Boobies
Amarr
All Hail Boobies
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:12:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: I Love Boobies on 16/02/2011 12:13:44
Even most mission runners know enough not to use smart bombs in Concord patrolled space. Even hitting one of the warp in beacons on missions will draw Concord. Or at least it used to. The trick to avoid this "exploit" is not to use smart bombs in Concord patrolled space. Problem solved.

Edit: By the way, I don't see anyone supporting the OP and this should actually be posted in the Ideas section. Wink

Schani Kratnorr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:22:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Milky Wimpshake
Edited by: Milky Wimpshake on 16/02/2011 09:03:50
Okay, I'm about fed up with this form of dirty fighting

Portrait looks almost Duke Nukem-esque

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:25:00 - [14]
 

ahahahha

'I used smartbombs in empire and CONCORD pwnd my face'

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:31:00 - [15]
 

Awwww... can't play EVE? Back to WoW you go.

People like you make me sick. Sick to the bones. You are the scum of this game.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:57:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Isaac Apylon
How about you get your own alts?


Very Happy

Maybe the OP should use this alt in space and not on the forum to get even to the evil highsec wardec exploiters. Laughing

Space Tarantula Haklar
Posted - 2011.02.16 13:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Milky Wimpshake
(...)
3) Make scanning ships a hostile act. Would take care of the alt ship scanners, but can't say I'm really a big fan of this idea.
(...)


Hmmm... I like that one : How would you consider an unknown guy caught looking at what you have in your pockets ? A neutral one ?... Twisted Evil

On a side note, OP definitely have a point: yet another sample of game mechanisms abuse Razz.


Captain Brickwalle
Posted - 2011.02.16 13:40:00 - [18]
 

Alts for espionage is like having moles inside the enemy establishment, or cooperate espionage. Everything is working as intended.

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2011.02.16 14:52:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Milky Wimpshake

This SHOULD be considered an exploit because:
1) The alts are clearly being used for military operations.
2) There are limited amounts of defensive weapons, especially for those flying in an Indy class ship, this activity negates the opportunity for defense without penalty.
3) The tactics are done to intentionally draw Concord into the battle to assist with their efforts against their enemies.



Marked the most important part of your rant.. if you are fitting SB's on indy you deserve to lose them.
The only reason to fit any kind of SB on a ship it's to fend off large drone usage/inty from swarm you, almost 99.9% of times you will have more chances with a sensor booster and ECM fitted

TokiWartooth Joringer
Posted - 2011.02.16 14:56:00 - [20]
 

CCP cant get rid of the alts, if they did so ingame numbers would drop drastically, and eve will die in a fire.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.02.16 14:57:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
ahahahha

'I used smartbombs in empire and CONCORD pwnd my face'

This. Laughing

Clan Toy
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:16:00 - [22]
 

Can you be certain that they just didn't have any faith in your combat skills and wanted to be the first to scoop your wreck?

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:23:00 - [23]
 

The system isn't perfect, it isn't what we'd design, but it is what it is.

Please suggest alternatives in the Features and Ideas forum.

Tom Peeping
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:39:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Tom Peeping on 16/02/2011 15:39:19
Originally by: Milky Wimpshake
Edited by: Milky Wimpshake on 16/02/2011 09:03:50

4) Create Temporary Combat Zone Declarations. Perhaps a launchable beacon declaring a large radius a termporary combat zone. Non-warring ships will have 30 seconds to vacate the area else be considered a valid target. The becon might read, "if you can read this, then you can be fired upon". A large visible semi-transparent sphere could outline the temporary combat zone. Such zones could last for 5-10 minutes, after which time the beacon self-destructs. This idea has a large potention for exploit as well, but thought it might inspire some thoughts from others.

I know there's going to be praisers and complainers about this one, but I think we can find a fair solution to this dirty form of gameplay.


Ummmm. this get's my vote for worst idea ever!

Hey! Can I please have 30 seconds before a fight to assess... maybe even scan your ships, decide with great precision if I'm going to win, and warp off if I'm not? It'd also be really useful for waiting out docking timers. Thxkbye!

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:39:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Aessoroz on 16/02/2011 15:41:43
Edited by: Aessoroz on 16/02/2011 15:39:28
1. You are using an alt to post here which is a obvious attempt to avoid wardecs. This is a military tactical operation that should not be allowed.

2. You are flying industrials while wardecced, you sir are a hero.

3. You are complaining about being shot...while wardecced, you are a hero.

4. You smartbombed in empire, way to go genius, they are AoE effect, you hit EVERYTHING, if you are even near a station, gate or asteriod, you will get CONCORDOKKEN.

5. They are not being used to draw CONCORD into battle, they stay to loot your wreck you tardo.

6. "Temporary Combat Zone declarations blah blah" is a truely bad idea because you will never be able to jump into Jita or undock again, I also would have no problem inviting friendly alliances to the fight too, why have 5 guys shooting a Golem when I could get 120? Not to mention that if you want free PVP, just go to null.


Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.02.16 16:26:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz

4. You smartbombed in empire, way to go genius, they are AoE effect, you hit EVERYTHING, if you are even near a station, gate or asteriod, you will get CONCORDOKKEN.





Actually if you are near a gate or a station they won't even fire. We had a couple butt hurt guys try this in RVB a couple times in an attempt to pod a bunch of people.

Didn't work out so well for them we blew up their ships and in at least one case we podded the offender.

NOG Holder
Posted - 2011.02.16 17:37:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: NOG Holder on 16/02/2011 17:37:27
Personally I like using neut alts in fast locking ships to target cloaking war targets so they can't cloak. Then I can proceed to fight them with along with my corp/alliance mates. Have racked up a few kills that way.

Davich MacGregor
Minmatar
Stellar Products and Quality Resources
Posted - 2011.02.16 18:22:00 - [28]
 

LMAO. Fairness? Since when has EVE been about fairness? If you want fairness go play The Sims.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.02.16 19:37:00 - [29]
 

1. Don't use smartbombs in highsec.
2. Don't use smartbombs in highsec.
3. Don't use smartbombs in highsec.
4. Life isn't fair.

Rens Cheque
Posted - 2011.02.16 19:41:00 - [30]
 

The use of alts is quite annoying, but if you want to compete in many aspects, you almost need to do it.

It is almost like RMT in some games where you are screwed if you don't buy in game currency because those that do it gain an advantage.

Well in Eve, RMT is handled somewhat better, but you can still gain quite an advantage with alts.

I would rather they not exist, but games that try to ban them are always unsuccessful, it's just too difficult to police. So it seems like there's not much that can be done, alts are going to be here to stay.


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