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Centauri
Posted - 2011.02.15 06:31:00 - [1]
 

More or less topic question; I'd like to join a PvP corp eventually and serve some use, but it has been literally years since I was "up to date" in EVE; the old character was biomassed some time ago, so this fellow is old only in name.

For a new character, I'm not sure what direction to head in. Logic tells me AF's or Inty's might be a good place to specialize, or Interdictors. Stealth Bombers may also serve some purpose, although perhaps too much of a niche.

The bottom line is that a new character has low SP's, and can't really afford (in my past experience)to branch out too much in terms of what they can fly, unless they want to be mediocre in everything. I'd rather be really decent (SP-wise) at one or two ship types, and then diversify as the character gets older.

Any particular ship-type recommendations, then? I'm not interested in being a healbot, I'll say that much!

Damnskippy
Posted - 2011.02.15 07:29:00 - [2]
 

If you're dead set on specializing, dictors are the way to go. Most of the skills you'll train are also needed for that race's frigates. ( If I remember correctly, assault frig, interceptor and cov ops are just 5 days each to get to lvl 4 )


Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.15 07:38:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Lost Greybeard on 15/02/2011 07:40:26
For PvP, you'll want to be at least somewhat proficient with Battlecruisers.

Having a t2 frigate type you're specced into is also handy, I'm a fan of interceptors and Stealth Bombers, though SBs are more solo craft most of the time (unless your whole corp can fly them-- SB fleets are fun). AFs are a legitimate choice, too.

Initially I'd advise picking a race and a weapon system and sticking to those until they're more than adequate before branching out into secondary weapon systems. Similarly, decide to shield tank or armor tank initially and work that one up to t2 capability before training the other one much.

Bigger than BCs tend to be mostly restricted to really big fleet operations (aside from the occasional BS sneaking into the small/mid-gang stuff) so I would consider t2 large guns, completing the racial Battleships skill, etc to be another "branching out when you're older" thing.

I'm not going to tell you which race and weapon system to pick, since that's more a personal preference thing than a "one is definitely better than the other" thing. I will note that missiles are the only weapon system that takes time to hit its target, and that you'll probably want to unlock t2 drones at some point (probably as your secondary weapon system).

EDIT: Yeah, interdictors are in high demand in 0.0, too, though you do have to be willing to die for your cause.

Centauri
Posted - 2011.02.15 07:47:00 - [4]
 

Some sound advice, thank you.

Minmatar seems the obvious route to go, as I am one.

Any thoughts on AF's? Much use for anything beyond engaging frigates?

I take it interdictors are (for some reason) unpopular and therefore interdictor pilots are in demand?

Damnskippy
Posted - 2011.02.15 08:05:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Centauri

I take it interdictors are (for some reason) unpopular and therefore interdictor pilots are in demand?


Dictors are always primary, and that hurts their life expectancy.


MalVortex
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2011.02.15 08:17:00 - [6]
 

Dictors are always a solid choice in 0.0 operations. They are unpopular because they are always primary, made of paper, and tend to kill the implants of the user, so nobody w/ skillpoints or money tends to like to fly them. Interceptors are always a solid choice for scouting or tackling in non-0.0 space - getting good at scouting a fleet and skilled with the directional scanner will take you far on very little SP.

Depending on what sort of corp you join, assault frigates can also be good, esp. in lowsec operations / FW. For larger classed ships, Battlecruisers are the current defacto due to their efficacy and cost - T1 cruisers are cheap, but T2 fitting them kills their isk efficiency (you could easily put 10 times the hull cost in rigs + T2 equipment on a T1 cruiser), and they tend to die to battlecruisers.

So just thinking aloud, you could easily go rifter -> Interceptors -> Sabre -> T2 Medium Autos -> Hurricane, and then skilling into battleships or T2 cruisers. Your limiting factor will really be money, depending on how you decide to make it.


Centauri
Posted - 2011.02.15 08:23:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Centauri on 15/02/2011 08:24:54
Thanks for the advice; Inty's may be the place to take myself, for now, then.

I feel like a traitor for saying it, but I rather like the Amarr line-up of Interceptors, as opposed to the Mimatar ones. This must make me a bad person.

Any thoughts on Malediction v. Crusader, then?

Also, thanks for the skill "progression" suggestion - I think I'll take that to the bank.

MalVortex
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2011.02.15 09:35:00 - [8]
 

Minmatar tends to be fantastic at frigates and cruiser worker, Amarr tends to be fantastic on the other end of the spectrum. That said, the Malediction is a great tackling interceptor (really, all the tackling 'ceptors are about the same in overall effectiveness), and the Crusader is still pretty decent (though it misses ye old locus days). For laser frigate combat, your starting and stopping ship is going to be the Slicer - its a fantastic frigate at a reasonable cost, and can fight pretty much every other frigate in the game with a chance for victory. The Vengeance post-rocket buff is also very good, but that requires missile skills and will detract from a dedicated skillplan. The Retribution is pretty bad, and its only partially redeeming functions are completely irrelevant to a newer player (you need to get used to tackling, maneuvering, and scanning - not f1 /afk in a frigate).

The Heretic is actually pretty decent now post rocket buff, but its probably not as good as the Sabre. Thats ok though, because in a gang setting your interdictors are there to bubble, not kill things by themselves. On the plus side, heretics are a lot cheaper than sabres.

Amarr T1 cruisers are pretty terrible on the whole. The omen is murdered by its tiering, and the Maller's design dates back to 04 and is completely antiquated. The Arbitrator is a very solid cruiser though, just train up those drone skills. At the battlecruiser level, the Harbinger is amazing - its not quite as versatile as the Hurricane, but its got fantastic damage projection with Scorch, and can still fit a surprising number of combat viable fits for every occasion. Amarr really shines in battleships, with three high quality ones to chose from. The Amarrian tech 2 cruiser lineup is probably also the most complete single-race cruiser lineup in game atm, with Ships like the Zealot, Omen Navy (ok its faction, whatever), Guardian, Curse, Pilgrim, and Devoter all waiting to be unlocked from that one cruiser 5; All of those cruisers are Best in Class or very close to it.

From a young pilot's perspective, Amarr is going to be a more skill intensive race. Lasers aren't as forgiving as early projectile weapons are due to high cap use until hull and gunnery skills are trained up, and they will seem downright weak until you get their Tech 2 versions for Scorch. Scorch redefines lasers, taking them from "decent damage" to "amazing damage", but they are skill intensive to get the full use of them. While every race needs drones, Amarr, like Gallente, have a larger focus on them for portions of their damage, and the Arbitrator hulls are dependent on them. While Amarr armor tanks, your still going to want to get some decent shield skills up for Shield-Harbinger nano gangs and LSE Zealot fits.

So a focused Ammarian charachter might go like this:

Malediction (~level 3 missile skills) -> T2 small pulse lasers Slicer/Crusader -> Heretic (optional: t2 rockets) -> T2 medium drones/DI4 -> Arbitrator -> T2 medium pulse lasers -> Harbigner -> T2 cruisers or Battleships + Tech 2 Large Pulse Lasers.

Its a more branching skill path because T2 amarr breaks away from just lasers quite a bit. Still, Scorch is the core backbone of Amarr, so gunnery support + engineering skills will never be wasted training. ~900k SP in drones will last you until you get into the Armageddon or Curse/Pilgrim hulls, where DI 5 and Sentry drones become highly desirable. Focus on lasers first, and instead use ECM drones until you can use T2 mediums in pvp (heh, even then, the ECM drones are a solid choice).


Centauri
Posted - 2011.02.15 09:47:00 - [9]
 

Extremely detailed - very helpful.

Thanks kindly for taking the time to write that out, I'll be book-marking for sure.

No doubt your explanation will help many others in my situation!

Flex Nebura
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.15 10:15:00 - [10]
 

Id suggest skipping tech 2 ships.

tech 3 cruisers give you a lot of versatility for a relativly low amount of skill points. So if you dont like the idea of being stuck in one role then tech 3 is a good place to aim.

They do carry a bit of a price tag though.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.15 10:28:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Centauri
I take it interdictors are (for some reason) unpopular and therefore interdictor pilots are in demand?


They are unpopular because an extremely common outcome of doing your job in a dictor is being podded in your own bubble. You can potentially ***** on both your lossmails (ship and pod) though, which is pretty lol.

Ms TUBGIRL
Posted - 2011.02.15 11:14:00 - [12]
 

I would say start with ceptors. Tackle is always useful. And ceptors are cheap compaired to dictors, are a bit more useful than Stealth Bombers. Assault Frigs cost about as much as a ceptor, and less useful for tackle. They are slower and are a bit more sturdy than ceptors, but not as sought after as ceptors.

Ceptors are a fairly short train. Train Navigation and Electronics that allow you to use do your job. Guns and damage are secondary. This will let you go out and have fun while you are training up. And if you train Minmatar, you can get your practice in a Rifter. This will let you be useful, have fun, and allow you to get experience while not costing you a lot of isk.

Once you have gotten a handle on small ship PVP, then begin to look towards Cruisers, and BCs. Again the Minmatar Ruprure and Cane are solid choices.

Good Luck

Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.02.15 11:55:00 - [13]
 


Battlecruiser... and why do people biomass characters. That's just insane.

Sjugar
Posted - 2011.02.15 12:02:00 - [14]
 

One of the main things before you can have an answer is: what kind of pvp do you want to do?

Do you want to go to 0.0 and roam, goto lowsec or be a wardeccing hig-sec corp. (or some of the other pvp things, this wasn't a full list)

The things you do and requirements are very very different.

This is my experience, in 0.0 I've had a lot of fun in nanogangs roaming around, that's T2 cruisers and interceptors.

I've also had fun in lowsec where you often fight while being shot by gateguns. This had more use for battlecruisers and battleships because I've seen more then 1 interceptor die because of station/gateguns.

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2011.02.15 12:11:00 - [15]
 

As I see it you have 4 legitimate options.

#1 The Hurricane. Its not 'best' at anything except being a nanoship. But it is versatile. It can armor or shield tank. It can fit for short or long range easily. Battlecruisers occupy a sweet spot between low cost, good maneuverability, and a nice DPS/EHP combination. Being a t1 ship they're easy to train for as well.

The drake is a better ratter and a better fleet combat ship. However it cant armor tank. This will limit your options. If you can only fly one ship, versatility is huge. Being unable to fly in half the fleets because your chosen ship can't armor tank is a pain.

#2 The Sabre. All 0.0 gangs need dictors. The Sabre is king of dictors. It is expensive though. Being able to solo is what you get for that cost. If you don't need to solo then you could try -

#3 A dictor that isn't the sabre. The cost of exploding is much lower than a Sabre for any other one. No one will ever tell you that you can't join their fleet. You can choose whichever race you eventually want to generalize into.

#4 A ceptor. These are much easier to train than dictors. Just like dictors you will never be excluded from any 0.0 fleet. There are places an fc might get ****ed you're trying to bring a cane (ABHACs anyone?) but an interceptor is not objectionable. There are pros and cons for all races interceptors or you can choose based on which race you want to specialize into.

Centauri
Posted - 2011.02.15 12:43:00 - [16]
 

More great replies - thank you.

As to the question as to why the original character was biomassed; Centauri (the original) was created on the proverbial "day one" of EVE. I was very active for a couple of years, and then... well... Warcrack came out, my friends moved there, and sustaining two MMO's (at least as far as time goes) didn't work for a university student. I left the character alone, but when I returned, a more knowledgeable friend of mine said it wouldn't be a horrible thing to just "start fresh"... so I did. I don't *particularly* regret it, as most of the "new and interesting' skills/toys/ships weren't around in my heyday, but I do see the cons, of course.

Thanks again for the replies, gents. Inty's look to be the place to be, and I'll look into T2 cruisers when I get the cash! I still have a few hundred million left over from ye olde dayes...

Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.15 14:42:00 - [17]
 

just train for drake.
Everybody hates it but it's a jack of all trades ship.
It has good defense and it will let you live longer so you can actually get some experience in pvp

Darcon Kylote
Posted - 2011.02.15 16:23:00 - [18]
 

You can't go wrong training for a fully t2 fit battlecruiser of your choice. It'll open up more options and styles of gameplay than any other ship class, and losing them won't hurt your wallet all that much.

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.15 18:02:00 - [19]
 

OP: What size of gangs do you want to fly in? The answer to your question varies based on that, but is almost always going to be Drake.

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.02.15 18:41:00 - [20]
 

ECM ftw!

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.02.16 02:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Centauri
As to the question as to why the original character was biomassed; Centauri (the original) was created on the proverbial "day one" of EVE. I was very active for a couple of years, and then... well... Warcrack came out, my friends moved there, and sustaining two MMO's (at least as far as time goes) didn't work for a university student. I left the character alone, but when I returned, a more knowledgeable friend of mine said it wouldn't be a horrible thing to just "start fresh"... so I did. I don't *particularly* regret it, as most of the "new and interesting' skills/toys/ships weren't around in my heyday, but I do see the cons, of course.


You had a First Day character and didn't sell it for 10+ BN isk?

I'd regret that for a little while.

Penjual Sayur
Posted - 2011.02.16 04:37:00 - [22]
 

New, low sp toon with limited cash? Cant go wrong with the rifter. If you want to specialized in AF, Jag/Wolf is very solid.

Straight Edged
Posted - 2011.02.16 10:06:00 - [23]
 

You want to be in the drake.

The drake is good value for money for pve,pvp,wormholes, exploration except mining.


 

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