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Naomi Ito
Posted - 2011.02.14 11:24:00 - [1]
 

Knowledgeable people of Eve, I have come to ask you all important questions on how to direct my training!

I am reaching a cross-roads in having a fair few support skills but not much in gunnery or spaceship command, and I'm not sure what to train towards. In the upcoming year I want to be able to play Eve without having to rely too heavily on other people as my timetable is likely to be busy (and unpredictable) with RL commitments including (hopefully) a new degree! I want to continue to pvp, but would like to move away from the 15 man+ gangs I've flown in so far and lean towards small gang and solo work, as I haven't found "blobbing" particularly enjoyable.

Originally I planned to fly the Pilgrim, as it seemed from what I read to be a solo-capable ship with a cloak which sounded like a lot of fun. The other option that presents itself is a Proteus. With a cloak, the Proteus seems more than capable of soloing and helping out in small gangs and does significantly more damage than the Pilgrim, allowing it much greater target selection.

The problem I face is that Amarr seem much better for just about every other task, while the Gallente are commonly thought to lag behind. The other thing is that I like the look of the Amarr ships in general more than Gallente. I LOVE the Legion, but it sucks with a cloak!

So, what should I train towards given my goals? Should I train Amarr on my main account for the Legion and forgo the cloak, leaving that to a scanning/scouting alt? Will a lack of cloak on my main ship make wormhole/low/null pvp difficult solo? Should I instead go for the Proteus?

Thanks very much for all your help! Very Happy

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2011.02.14 11:34:00 - [2]
 

Pilgrim, to me, is like a death coffin. A ship that is always too slow, targets JUST out of it's range as you uncloak and can target, and it has to commit to kill something. The Curse is much better in my opinion and if you feel the need to fit a cloak just put a T2 cloak on a Curse and you can get out of most difficult situations. Having said that, and the Curse being awesome, there's not too many other Amarr ships that favour solo gameplay or small gangs. Also, the Legion sucks donkeyballs compared to the other T3.

Right now, with the way hybrids are, I wouldn't choose to go Gallente either. If you're looking for solo or small gang combat, versatility and even good PVE then there's no other logical choice than Minmatar. Fast, nimble, can attack at range, damage type selection and a very good lineup of non-T2 (so not expensive) ships that just perform really well.

Niclas Solo
Amarr
Love n Peace
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2011.02.14 11:41:00 - [3]
 

Sure you can solo a lot of ships in a pilgrim, but problem is that it take so long time to kill something that his friends will have more then enough time to come and help him.

Legion is great for running links but for anything else it's not worth the isk, it's a bit better sniper then zealot for 5 times the cost. For anything else Amarr have a ship that does the job better.

Most important thing in solo or small gangs is speed and that is something amarr doesn't have. Slowest ship will always die when the blob land.

Take a look at the minmatar/angel ships they are great because of their speed and ofc tengu.

Lain Umi
Posted - 2011.02.14 11:56:00 - [4]
 

there is no solo. might as well purge that concept from your mind. if you insist on doing solo, then just train up for any of the bc's.

otherwise, pick a ship thats versatile and specialize in it. something that can do many things. one example is ishtar, other example is drake

Korg Leaf
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.02.14 12:32:00 - [5]
 

Proteus can be a decent solo boat with a cloak, but its a large risk.

I would say though the pilgrim is great in small covert ops gangs as an initial tackle before the bombers decloak to add the dps.

Personally though why not stick to cheaper solo ships like the shield harbinger, it has good dps, good damage projection, decent speed and a decent tank just have to deal with bad cap.

Kepakh
Posted - 2011.02.14 13:01:00 - [6]
 

You are overestimating CovOps cloak as well as Pilgrim.

What Pilgrim does the best is Exploration and to some extend ganking mission runners. Not that great in engaging PVP aware targets, imo.

The best solo boat is still in Amarr fleet though - Curse. Otherwise anything Minmatar is just overpowered, excellent for solo and you can just focus on cheap T1 disposable ships if your wallet cannot take T2 loses.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.02.14 13:10:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
You are overestimating CovOps cloak as well as Pilgrim.

What Pilgrim does the best is Exploration and to some extend ganking mission runners. Not that great in engaging PVP aware targets, imo.

The best solo boat is still in Amarr fleet though - Curse. Otherwise anything Minmatar is just overpowered, excellent for solo and you can just focus on cheap T1 disposable ships if your wallet cannot take T2 loses.

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.02.14 15:49:00 - [8]
 

Solo pvp is hard to come by in eve. It usually involves you ganking passerbys at the gates or finding the occassional miner/ ratter( i even popped someone mining in a pilgrim once if that is not carebearish)

The curse is a great ship, if flown properly. In my opinion many dont. They dont utilize the curses ability to completely maim anything that uses cap.Trying to squeeze dps out of the curse instead of removing tank from the enemy quicker. Regardless it is still a powerful PVP boat.

The pilgrim works well in small gangs as a tackler.You can use it solo also. Armor tanked you get 390 dps and 42k buffer tank.2 Point and web 2 TDs and cap stable. Have to run an AB which works well on this setup because of the tackle you run and your a cloaky.


So you get 390 dps, 42k tank, 2 point and web, 2 TDs and a covert cloak on a cruiser hull. If this ship was any better it would be overpowered.

The harbinger makes a nice gank boat if you are running in a small gang. Can be used solo as well.

Naomi Ito
Posted - 2011.02.15 00:12:00 - [9]
 

Thanks for your replies everyone!

It seems my understanding of solo pvp is incorrect- that a cloak is by no means needed. Why is this so? I would have thought that anyone who saw you appear on d-scan who's solo themselves would simply warp to a safe spot and wait for you to go. How is it that you find fights when everyone can see you coming, especially in a ship such as the Curse, which certainly has a reputation..?

Are probe launchers therefore required on solo ships? Or do people tend to just hang around in places you can already warp to? My experiences in blob pvp have left a lot of questions...

Dr Offensive
Posted - 2011.02.15 00:23:00 - [10]
 

Deimos is the ultimate power in the galaxy, nobody does it better, this should be your "final destination" in EVE

MalVortex
Applied Agoraphobia
Posted - 2011.02.15 01:07:00 - [11]
 

The Pilgrim is a lot of fun to fly if you enjoy the stalking aspect of PvP. Its not a fast ship in any sense of the word, but it can really give you that WWII submarine feel as you carefully approach a target and then decloak on top of them. The real trick to flying her is proper target selection and situational awareness - in the actual fight, the pilgrim can get a guaranteed win in a 1v1 if you opened correctly against a well chosen target. You won't be able to do a 1vMany like other ships could, but that doesn't make it a bad ship - just a situational one. Plus, you get the Curse out of the same training, which solves all of those problems anyways.

Cross training to the proteus later is what I would recommend. The proteus is a fantastic ship, but its expensive and you really want some good piloting skills (both SP and personally) before you mount up and solo in a T3. The proteus hits a lot harder than the Pilgrim will in a covert configuration, but its lack of neuts will give it more difficulty with well tanked PVE ships (where a pilgrim can exact quick kills by killing the active tank).

As for probing, having decentish probe skills on your main is never a bad idea - but if you want to max them out, I would recommend making a dedicated alt. Maxed probing skills becomes sp intensive in a hurry, and not many ships can actually mounted the expanded probe launcher without a serious alteration to their fits to even make use of those skills. A Pilgrim, for example, could fit an expanded probe launcher, but it takes Recon 5 and a serious rework to its tanking mods to get it on - and you would still lack a hull probe strength bonus. If you are serious about probing, alts are the only way to go longterm.

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2011.02.15 01:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Naomi Ito
Thanks for your replies everyone!

It seems my understanding of solo pvp is incorrect- that a cloak is by no means needed. Why is this so? I would have thought that anyone who saw you appear on d-scan who's solo themselves would simply warp to a safe spot and wait for you to go. How is it that you find fights when everyone can see you coming, especially in a ship such as the Curse, which certainly has a reputation..?

Are probe launchers therefore required on solo ships? Or do people tend to just hang around in places you can already warp to? My experiences in blob pvp have left a lot of questions...


It's a lot like poker. You need to make strong hands look weak and weak hands look strong.

Finding new and effective uses for underrated ships is the best way (this is what made parking AML-Caracals in belts so much fun - attract every 'ceptor and AF for miles around and murder them all one by one. Good times), but you can also get some mileage from appearing to bite off more than you can chew (Used to engage apparently insane odds in a HAM-Drake or Abaddon (love dual ECCM) a few years back - of course I knew better than my victims did at the time) but it's getting a lot harder since people are becoming more paranoid.

It's still out there, but if you fly around in an obviously powerful ship you'll only get obviously powerful opponents (ie: blobbed). I've stopped flying solo in my Dram, Curse and Cynabal for exactly these reasons.

You'll need probes to hunt missionrunners. For pvp pilots in safespots, chances are high that they're aligned and watching for probes anyway, so you still won't catch them. I generally don't bother.

Move fast, switch systems often, fly something underrated and accept you're going to die (probably often) and you won't go far wrong.

Mister Normal
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.02.15 04:21:00 - [13]
 

Aim for the ship you are in.

become the best in it you can.

Damnskippy
Posted - 2011.02.15 07:49:00 - [14]
 

Train bc5. Battlecruisers ( whichever race you pick ) are versatile and cheap. You'll have plenty of fun throwing yourself into fights where you have the chance of killing something and your losses don't cost much.

Maz3r Rakum
Gallente
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.02.15 16:19:00 - [15]
 

I would recommend one of two different paths. Either aim for

Jaguar/Wolf/Rifter/Hurricane (dram if you decide to get gal frig up a bit)

or

Slicer/Sader/Harby

either path will get you a solid t1 frig, some nice AF/Intys, and give you a BC that will be welcome in most fleets and either can be armor fitted or nano fitted effectively.

I personally chose the Minnmatar route, as i fly in Amarr Milita, and wanted to blend in with the enemy YARRRR!! . Though the Amarr choice is equally as viable, and would open up the door for probably the best fleet BS the Abaddon. Can't really go wrong tbh. Train Both!

Though one nice thing about the Minnie route is that they have the rupture which is probably the best t1 cruiser, and can be fitted solidly for around the same price (probably cheaper) than a properly fit AF/Faction frig. Also the Minnmatar destroyers and AF are much superior IMO.

Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.15 16:25:00 - [16]
 

Hurricane/vagabond

Dark Assassin15
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2011.02.15 20:39:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Lt Angus
Hurricane/vagabond

^ this.

Naomi Ito
Posted - 2011.02.15 23:56:00 - [18]
 

Thank you again for all the replies, and miraculously few troll posts!

Now that I'm getting a better understanding of exactly what it is I'm after, with your help, I am thinking that dual boxing is the best solution. I suppose it's not strictly "solo" anymore, and I'm sure there are plenty of e-honour people who will tell me it doesn't count, but I'm after the hunt and (meager) loot, so that doesn't bother me.

You have also convinced me that Minmatar really are an excellent choice, here's hoping that CCP don't nerf them anytime soon...

So now my question is about dual boxing! From my understanding people traditionally have a scout alt and a main. Would it be a good idea to have two ships that are actually combat capable and try to run them together, or does managing two ships in combat become too difficult?
Do people dual-box on the one machine or will I need another comp?

If I do train towards the Hurricane (and eventually Loki), would a particular scouting alt ship be preferable for any reason? Do people use their scouting alt for tackle or gang boosting, or is it really just there for scouting?

Cheers for the thoughtful responses everyone :)

Mister Normal
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.02.16 05:22:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Naomi Ito
You have also convinced me that Minmatar really are an excellent choice, here's hoping that CCP don't nerf them anytime soon...


They are indeed (i did not mean for my previous post to appear to be a troll, i was wanting to point out that it is a good thing to be as effective as you can be in the ship you desire).

Vaga, Cane, Loki, Rapier... all fun ships to fly!

Naomi Ito
Posted - 2011.02.16 06:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Mister Normal

They are indeed (i did not mean for my previous post to appear to be a troll, i was wanting to point out that it is a good thing to be as effective as you can be in the ship you desire).



And you make a valid point. It wasn't your posts that I was referring to though, more the person directing me to fly the Diemost.


 

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