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Minmatar Freedom
Posted - 2011.02.11 00:58:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Minmatar Freedom on 11/02/2011 00:58:53
There seems to be a bit of a gap in our hauling fleet.

At the top end of the lesser cargo ships, you have Industrials. A top-fit Iteron is pretty much the biggest cargo-hold you can get without going Capital.

Transport Ships are specialized Industrials but thier cargo space is less than an Industrial.

A Mammoth has a ~5.5k cargo-hold assuming no skills or fittings whereas a Fenrir can pull upwards of 720k, again assuming no skills or mods. That's a HUGE difference and even maxed with skills and mods (according to EVElopedia) the max you can get out of a Mammoth is 30k of cargo space. Even a fully maxed Iteron 5 can only pull 40k of cargo.

A Fenrir (at time of writing) goes for 70 million whereas a Mammoth can be picked up for 8-900 thousand.

There doesnt seem to be any middle-ground for cargo ship. Feel free to check my math but it seems we have a mid-range ship gap going on Sad


Morg Braktar
Minmatar
BlackTar Corporation
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:37:00 - [2]
 

I have one word for you sir, one word... Orca!

Dhund Wyer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:45:00 - [3]
 

Basic Industrial -> Tiered Industrials (all 4 in Gallente's case) -> Transport Ships -> Orca -> Fritter -> Jump Fritter

Inconsistent Revelations
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:50:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Minmatar Freedom

A Fenrir (at time of writing) goes for 70 million whereas a Mammoth can be picked up for 8-900 thousand.




WTB 70 mill Fenrir Very Happy

Minmatar Freedom
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:15:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Morg Braktar
I have one word for you sir, one word... Orca!


An Orca has 30k of cargo and costs exponentially more than an Iteron V and (with skills and mods) has only slightly more cargo space. Why exactly is an Orca a step up?

That should have been 700 mil for a Fenrir, my bad

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:55:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Minmatar Freedom
Originally by: Morg Braktar
I have one word for you sir, one word... Orca!


An Orca has 30k of cargo and costs exponentially more than an Iteron V and (with skills and mods) has only slightly more cargo space. Why exactly is an Orca a step up?

That should have been 700 mil for a Fenrir, my bad



30k cargo base.

also it has a 50k ore hold, a 40k corp hangar, and, most important of all, a 400k m3 ship maintenance hangar

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.11 05:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Grimpak

30k cargo base.

also it has a 50k ore hold, a 40k corp hangar, and, most important of all, a 400k m3 ship maintenance hangar

Not to mention that its corp hangars and ship maintenance bay are unscannable.

Plus, you can actually tank an Orca. Over 300K EHP, if need be.

Plus, with 2x cheap cargohold expanders (no rigs required) you can transport a packed battleship in it.

Orca, the ultimate hauler's wet dream. :) Seriously, I'm even considering doing away with the old freighter (only reason I don't, really, cuz it took me so long to train for).

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.02.11 05:15:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Minmatar Freedom
Originally by: Morg Braktar
I have one word for you sir, one word... Orca!


An Orca has 30k of cargo and costs exponentially more than an Iteron V and (with skills and mods) has only slightly more cargo space. Why exactly is an Orca a step up?

That should have been 700 mil for a Fenrir, my bad
Errmm, my orca has 100k+ m3 cargo space along with the 40k m3 unscannable corp bay and the lurvely 400k m3 maint bay which I can fill with haulers filled with the optimum mineral compressed ammo along with a 50k m3 ore hold. If you can't make a juicy profit off that then you need to gb2wow and farm instances.

Hugo Smith
Posted - 2011.02.11 05:55:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Minmatar Freedom
Originally by: Morg Braktar
I have one word for you sir, one word... Orca!


An Orca has 30k of cargo and costs exponentially more than an Iteron V and (with skills and mods) has only slightly more cargo space. Why exactly is an Orca a step up?

That should have been 700 mil for a Fenrir, my bad
Errmm, my orca has 100k+ m3 cargo space along with the 40k m3 unscannable corp bay and the lurvely 400k m3 maint bay which I can fill with haulers filled with the optimum mineral compressed ammo along with a 50k m3 ore hold. If you can't make a juicy profit off that then you need to gb2wow and farm instances.


Ships in the maintenance bay cannot have anything within there cargo... Someone else needs to gb2wow too Laughing

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.02.11 06:12:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hugo Smith
Ships in the maintenance bay cannot have anything within there cargo... Someone else needs to gb2wow too Laughing
Ships in the main bay can contain charges. Someone needs to lrn2troll.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.11 11:34:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Hugo Smith
Ships in the maintenance bay cannot have anything within there cargo... Someone else needs to gb2wow too Laughing
Ships in the main bay can contain charges. Someone needs to lrn2troll.
nanite paste too btw.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.11 11:44:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
]Errmm, my orca has 100k+ m3 cargo space along with the 40k m3 unscannable corp bay and the lurvely 400k m3 maint bay which I can fill with haulers filled with the optimum mineral compressed ammo along with a 50k m3 ore hold. If you can't make a juicy profit off that then you need to gb2wow and farm instances.
The only "problem" with the Orca is that it's so focused on mineral/ore transport (and minerals only in the roundabout way of ammo compression). Other than that… ♥♥♥

Btw, the intermediary freighter would be the jump freighter (if they didn't cost 4bn, that is…).

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.11 11:49:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tippia
The only "problem" with the Orca is that it's so focused on mineral/ore transport (and minerals only in the roundabout way of ammo compression). Other than that… ♥♥♥


then again, considering the scope of things that the orca can do, beyond just hauling, I think it's fair.


damn ship is probably the most role-flexible ship in EVE. I mean, you can even develop pvp tactics around what it can do, together with being a command mining ship and a hauler with the capability of carrying rigged ships in hisec without the need of going roundabout waysLaughingCool

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.11 12:06:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
damn ship is probably the most role-flexible ship in EVE. I mean, you can even develop pvp tactics around what it can do, together with being a command mining ship and a hauler with the capability of carrying rigged ships in hisec without the need of going roundabout waysLaughingCool
…in fact, screw the "mining" bit. I think I've used it for mining purposes once.

The fact that it can fit and use three command links (with slightly less efficiency, granted, but still…) without any particular loss of capabilities is enough to make it a centre-piece for any kind of group operation — the fact that it can also carry spare ships and modules and function as a refitting station just further piles on the benefits.

Julien Brellier
Posted - 2011.02.11 12:09:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Errmm, my orca has 100k+ m3 cargo space along with the 40k m3 unscannable corp bay and the lurvely 400k m3 maint bay which I can fill with haulers filled with the optimum mineral compressed ammo along with a 50k m3 ore hold. If you can't make a juicy profit off that then you need to gb2wow and farm instances.


QFTCool

Samican Nutikor
Posted - 2011.02.11 21:00:00 - [16]
 

What quirks me personally about the Orca is it's training requirements. The ship in itself is nice, no doubt against that! But the training req's (leadership skills) and ship capabilities make it an industrial support ship (miner fleet booster / logistics), not a hauler.

Looking at pure haulers there is indeed a sizeable gap between industrials and freighters. Something maybe like an Orca if you look at the ship maintenance bay and cargohold, but without the support capabilities could fill that gap.

A way to make such a ship "logic to train" would be to tie it to the transport ships skill. As it is now there's barely a reason to train that skill beyond level 1.

Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar
Instapop Industries
Posted - 2011.02.11 21:39:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Samican Nutikor
What quirks me personally about the Orca is it's training requirements. The ship in itself is nice, no doubt against that! But the training req's (leadership skills) and ship capabilities make it an industrial support ship (miner fleet booster / logistics), not a hauler.

Looking at pure haulers there is indeed a sizeable gap between industrials and freighters. Something maybe like an Orca if you look at the ship maintenance bay and cargohold, but without the support capabilities could fill that gap.

A way to make such a ship "logic to train" would be to tie it to the transport ships skill. As it is now there's barely a reason to train that skill beyond level 1.


I agree with you. An Orca-like mini-freighter (no ore bay), no command capabilities, and larger cargo hold would be ideal.

Maybe even make the skill requirement ORE Industrial 5 + Transport Ship 1. Throw in a 2.5% cargohold/speed bonus per level of ORE Industrial and the same for Transport Ships, and we have something very useful, IMO.

*Note* I'd rather see existing skills used than new ones created, especially when a particular ship skill is used with only 1 ship.

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.02.11 21:43:00 - [18]
 

I would not mind a retooled orca varient that focused on general cargo over everything else. Take out everything but the cargo and maint bay and let it haul a rigged bs around. That would be very very nice.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.02.11 21:46:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 11/02/2011 21:47:30
Originally by: Samican Nutikor
What quirks me personally about the Orca is it's training requirements. The ship in itself is nice, no doubt against that! But the training req's (leadership skills) and ship capabilities make it an industrial support ship (miner fleet booster / logistics), not a hauler.

Looking at pure haulers there is indeed a sizeable gap between industrials and freighters. Something maybe like an Orca if you look at the ship maintenance bay and cargohold, but without the support capabilities could fill that gap.

A way to make such a ship "logic to train" would be to tie it to the transport ships skill. As it is now there's barely a reason to train that skill beyond level 1.
you have a point, but still, the orca has quite a versatility.

and yes, I use it as a gang booster and rigged ship hauler alike.

iconoclast
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Posted - 2011.02.11 22:06:00 - [20]
 

We need Tech 2 covert ops Orcas with JUMP Engines! And covert jump portals! And cloaking devices!

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.11 22:21:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: iconoclast
We need Tech 2 covert ops Orcas with JUMP Engines! And covert jump portals! And cloaking devices!


It's got to be vertical too.

Samican Nutikor
Posted - 2011.02.11 22:48:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 11/02/2011 21:47:30
Originally by: Samican Nutikor
What quirks me personally about the Orca is it's training requirements. The ship in itself is nice, no doubt against that! But the training req's (leadership skills) and ship capabilities make it an industrial support ship (miner fleet booster / logistics), not a hauler.

Looking at pure haulers there is indeed a sizeable gap between industrials and freighters. Something maybe like an Orca if you look at the ship maintenance bay and cargohold, but without the support capabilities could fill that gap.

A way to make such a ship "logic to train" would be to tie it to the transport ships skill. As it is now there's barely a reason to train that skill beyond level 1.
you have a point, but still, the orca has quite a versatility.

and yes, I use it as a gang booster and rigged ship hauler alike.


"Rigged ship hauler" is a relative term here. It can haul rigged BC all well but when it comes to BS...I use a heavy brickwall Rattlesnake and a DPS faction BS to run missions in (which ship I use depends on the mission). So quite honestly...the Orca would be useless to me in this regard. It would be useful to SOME extent when moving around my assault frigs and HAC if I'd ever plan to grind up another faction, but as soon as I hit the L4 point I'd have to bring in the BS separately. So even as a (unpacked) ship hauler it has a limited range of usefulness.

The "gap-filler" between indys and freighters I am thinking of would be something like an Iteron V on steroids - sporting as a gut guess 100k cargohold unfitted and a 750k ship hangar (that would allow hauling a BS and at least one frig, if not a cruiser or both). Tank would be between DST and Orca in terms of EHP / sustained tank. Speed / align time - freighter level if you ask me.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.11 22:53:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Samican Nutikor
What quirks me personally about the Orca is it's training requirements. The ship in itself is nice, no doubt against that! But the training req's (leadership skills) and ship capabilities make it an industrial support ship (miner fleet booster / logistics), not a hauler.

Looking at pure haulers there is indeed a sizeable gap between industrials and freighters. Something maybe like an Orca if you look at the ship maintenance bay and cargohold, but without the support capabilities could fill that gap.

That's where the SP reimbursement program came in. :) Got all the Orca skills (maxed out) for my Indy alt, in one foul swoop! Especially all the leadership stuff would have been a b*tch otherwise (I mean, seriously, who has time for a whole Charisma remap?!).


 

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