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leavcraft
Posted - 2011.02.16 05:25:00 - [61]
 

I have been told in other threads that I can create newness in my lvl 4 missions by simply using a more challenging ship and fit. That is a true statement and has extended some new joy.
The larger truth is that having EVE-survival telling us how to outwit the missions makes them boring faster.
Randomizing missions until you are actually in them would be a new twist, but if they only contained the ones we are already declining then it would be a waste. BUT, offer a better reward for taking an "unknown content" mission might be a workable teaser. You wont even know the mission objective until you are in it. (yep, may have to warp out to refit or send a stealth ship in to check it out)
As to the reward, I can see from the postings above that ISK , Tags, Loot, Salvage, Standing all figure in to what we consider a "good" reward.
My final thought on this concept is that we could choose "unknown content" missions for either LP, ISK, Standing or some combination.
just food for thought

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.16 14:13:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: XXSketchxx on 16/02/2011 14:13:33
Originally by: leavcraft
I have been told in other threads that I can create newness in my lvl 4 missions by simply using a more challenging ship and fit. That is a true statement and has extended some new joy.
The larger truth is that having EVE-survival telling us how to outwit the missions makes them boring faster.
Randomizing missions until you are actually in them would be a new twist, but if they only contained the ones we are already declining then it would be a waste. BUT, offer a better reward for taking an "unknown content" mission might be a workable teaser. You wont even know the mission objective until you are in it. (yep, may have to warp out to refit or send a stealth ship in to check it out)

As to the reward, I can see from the postings above that ISK , Tags, Loot, Salvage, Standing all figure in to what we consider a "good" reward.
My final thought on this concept is that we could choose "unknown content" missions for either LP, ISK, Standing or some combination.
just food for thought



While I agree missions should have more unknown and random factors...

No one is forcing you to use eve-survival Rolling Eyes

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.16 16:47:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 16/02/2011 14:13:33
Originally by: leavcraft
I have been told in other threads that I can create newness in my lvl 4 missions by simply using a more challenging ship and fit. That is a true statement and has extended some new joy.
The larger truth is that having EVE-survival telling us how to outwit the missions makes them boring faster.
Randomizing missions until you are actually in them would be a new twist, but if they only contained the ones we are already declining then it would be a waste. BUT, offer a better reward for taking an "unknown content" mission might be a workable teaser. You wont even know the mission objective until you are in it. (yep, may have to warp out to refit or send a stealth ship in to check it out)

As to the reward, I can see from the postings above that ISK , Tags, Loot, Salvage, Standing all figure in to what we consider a "good" reward.
My final thought on this concept is that we could choose "unknown content" missions for either LP, ISK, Standing or some combination.
just food for thought



While I agree missions should have more unknown and random factors...

No one is forcing you to use eve-survival Rolling Eyes


I try not to use EVE survival, but when you run the same mission five times there is nothing you can do to forget what's going to happen.

But the real problem is that if I want to enjoy missions (as much as possible) I must sacrifice efficiency, and that sucks.
It's quite stupid that in a game I must choose between enjoyment and efficiency.

Moreover, randomness could make missions harder, but also easier, maybe giving you new unpredictable blitzing opportunities.

I am completely sure that everyone would enjoy more randomness and "unknown content" in missions.
Unfortunately there are some players that want missions just to be blitzable and lucrative, and they don't care about content. The less the content, the less the time, the bigger the isk/hour ratio, and grinding missions is faster.



Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.02.16 17:30:00 - [64]
 

One thing I'd like to see is for there to be two versions of each mission. The exist used for missions given in high sec systems (based on where the mission spawns now on where the agent is located) and a second speed boat style for missions that spawn in low and null.

As it stands now running missions in low leaves one at an extreme disadvantage either in safety or efficiency. If you run them like a high sec mission you are extremely vulnerable to any random ganker who happens by with a combat probe. The only way to counter this is to use an extremely expensive gimp fit unscannable ship that will knock your efficiency down to a level where you'd be better off doing missions in high sec in a proper PVE fit.

If however the missions were designed in such a way that one could run in quickly in something smaller and complete rapidly then the window of vulnerability would be much smaller and would encourage more people to risk a trip into less secure space.

You'd still have to deal with gate/station camps and hunters but you'd be able to mitigate those risks much easier in a smaller more agile ship than one can in a big slow battleship.

And while it would make it harder for hunters to catch any given mission runner an increase in the number of runners should increase the opportunities to catch someone who screwed up.

SkinGrapht
Posted - 2011.02.17 14:43:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Arushia
"Materials For War Preparation" ...
I'd prefer die in a fire, honestly.


+1 I would even settle for it's frequency being cut to a third or quarter of it's present frequency...

I'm not a fan of grinding standings and getting it 5 out of 6 story line offers. It took me 3 weeks of grinding to go from -4 to -1.8. Totally burnt me out on running missions for a while. So now I'm back where I like the LP store better and cba to run a flipping mission as I'm totally disgusted by the process atm :p

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.17 15:10:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: SkinGrapht
Originally by: Arushia
"Materials For War Preparation" ...
I'd prefer die in a fire, honestly.


+1 I would even settle for it's frequency being cut to a third or quarter of it's present frequency...


~15 mill profit for 30 seconds clicking? I like that mission a lot.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2011.02.17 16:08:00 - [67]
 

Gonna throw my 1 cent in here:

Tl;DR - Make all pirate tags relevant in the LP store, and also increase their drop rate. More LP store variety. More agent storyline mission reward variety.

1. Currently most of the tags are just not used for anything. Yeah datacenter agents use the bronze, silver, gold (more?) tags but thats it really. Most if not ALL of the mission commander tags (Zazz, etc.) are not used because they have no place. the LP store needs to be redesigned to take these tags into account to get LP items.

Either the LP store will need ISK+item+faction tags or it should be ISK+Item+Pirate tags but not both.

2. LP stores need far more variety. Right now I believe there are 3 variations of the LP store for Caldari? 3 for Amarr? Etc.

3. Storyline missions need to offer something other than hardwirings and learning implants. Maybe that Materials For War preparation should give a 3% hardwiring or even a CN Small Shield extender. My point is open these agent's inventories up more so have more random rewards. Before anyone asks, I'm not saying allow a CNR be a reward, or any faction ship.


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.02.17 20:52:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: SkinGrapht
Originally by: Arushia
"Materials For War Preparation" ...
I'd prefer die in a fire, honestly.


+1 I would even settle for it's frequency being cut to a third or quarter of it's present frequency...


~15 mill profit for 30 seconds clicking? I like that mission a lot.


better than the new courier story lines at least (not that that is hard)

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.02.18 00:16:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 18/02/2011 00:21:34


Almost all of these suggestions are absolutely horrible, and if the CSM takes them to CCP, I bet the devs will laugh in your faces. Highsec missioning does not need to become more convenient or better paying. The in-game economy is broken enough as it is.

these are actually decent:

Quote:
- The pirate LP stores are pathetic. Please finish them.

- Normalize mission LP/reward/bonus in low sec to always seem as if you're in a 0.1.
- Add more L5 agents. Add pirate L5 agents after making sure the pirate LP stores are fixed. :)
- The ISK faucet that comes from mission bounties is too high, especially when compared to pirate/FW missions where all the ISK you get for running missions comes from market PVP. REMOVE mission bounties and increase tag drops (there's NPC buy orders for tags). This might have the pleasant knock-on effect of making the small module LP store adjustment unnecessary.
- It would be nice if the FW had missions like "Go capture a plex in system X" and "Prevent any plexes from being captured in system Y for the next 15 minutes". Keep the old missions as well and remove NPCs in the plexes. :)


As they address some of the imbalances level 4 highsec missions have created to the game economy. Separately, the FW one is a good idea, but in effect would just be declined unless it's LP payments was ridiculous.

Deathriser
Posted - 2011.02.19 05:45:00 - [70]
 

Tell my lvl 5 agent in lowsec to NOT SEND ME 5 JUMPS INTO HOSTILE NULLSEC in a different region for a freaking drone mission!

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.19 15:36:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Venkul Mul

There is only in problem with that: 0.0 people will cry very hard. Having to gather tags and then move them to empire (not necessary high sec) for sale will not sit well with them.

More than dog tags like today I would suggest to use items that can redeemed in every stations (even player owned ones) like hard cash from crew wages, valuables, criminal cartel informations, pirates secret technology items and other stuff.

Some of the stuff could be usable in LP stores but it would be relatively easy to exchange for isk even in 0.0 space.
It will still slow down isk accumulation as people will have to loot the wrecks, but it will not make it too for 0.0 denizens interested onluy in cash.hard


It's a player driven market. Drop the dog tags and right-click-sell to some corp/alliance mate. There WILL be buy orders up.

-Liang


So you suggest to make all the missions more like the pirate ones where you Have to loot the tags to get the payout.

If this is combined with lp store adjustmensts where the tags will be a currency
Like for example in minmatar space you can use the angel tags not amarr ones only to get the stuff from the lp stores I am all for it.

each item could have 2 sets of tag required as a price one the local normal pirate enemy and 2 the enemy empire faction

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.02.19 19:30:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Pod Amarr

So you suggest to make all the missions more like the pirate ones where you Have to loot the tags to get the payout.

If this is combined with lp store adjustmensts where the tags will be a currency
Like for example in minmatar space you can use the angel tags not amarr ones only to get the stuff from the lp stores I am all for it.

each item could have 2 sets of tag required as a price one the local normal pirate enemy and 2 the enemy empire faction


Yeah, that sounds like you've got it and its implications. I'm also in favor of your modification. :)

-Liang

Bunyip
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.02.22 23:31:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Bunyip on 22/02/2011 23:37:54
My suggestion would be to rework agent mechanics all together (With exception of Event and R&D agents), and revamp the way missions are distributed.

Instead of the normal missions, each agent would give you a choice of what you wanted to do (Anti-Pirate Combat, Anti-Faction Combat, Courier, Mining, Trade, etc). These options would be randomized, making it harder to macro these activities. Other new mission types could be included, such as manufacturing (where the agent gives you a blueprint and you have to build the item - could include nonstandard items like the old Villard Wheel mission).

Once you choose your mission type, the mission is drawn from that particular pool. You then have the ability to accept or reject the mission in question (still using the same 4 hour wait).

Mining missions would be to mine that particular mineral, but have other low to mid-end minerals around it that you could mine before turning the mission in for some profit. Anti-Pirate missions are against pirate organizations (EoM, Mercs, Guristas, etc), and Anti-Faction missions are against other empire factions (to help gain tags faster, should you decide to go that route).

After running 16 missions, that very agent you've been working with (and not an agent in another station which might not even be the same corporation) gives you a storyline mission to run. These would fall under the same 4 hour wait for denying a mission, should you choose to do so.

The agent's quality is based on an exponential review of how many missions said agent gives out per hour. The more given out, the lower the agent's quality would be (so missioneers in Motsu and Dodixie would quickly have quality -20 agents).

I think this is a win/win situation for all concerned as far as I can see. It would require a moderate reworking of the mission mechanics, but we could get rid of some agents this way. I will compose all my ideas into a PDF document eventually, but for now, this should help the idea pool.

Sheena Tzash
Posted - 2011.02.23 10:55:00 - [74]
 

Personally I think the mission system needs a revamp to make it a bit more user friendly and intuivite:

1) Allow players to select the mission type rather than have one randomly allocated

How many times have we 'struck out' of an agent because they've dropped 2 faction or delivery missions? Surely if its my game time and I want to run a mission then I should be able to get one at my convience.

Also allowing players to pick the mission would also allow them to pick a mission that can better suit their available time or group so that if someone has 30 mins to play they can pick a short mission or if they are in a group they can pick a larger / longer mission so that all group members benfit and avoid time wasting short missions.

2) Mission Intel

Maybe for a small cost allow the player to get some basic intel on either the faction or the mission itself. Why doesn't get game tell me the resists of the mob I'm fighting? Pay a little isk, get some info that says "Oh btw the mobs are vulnerable to EMP" would help many new players get into the swing of the game without having to resort to external guides.

Maybe also provide some basic info on web, scram, number of ships, types of ships etc etc so players get a general understanding of what is involved.

3) Allow a difficulty setting

Again to do with running missions with friends it becomes overkill when you have more than one or two buddies as the income is drastically reduced and the missions are too easy and quickly become boring.

If missions could have a difficulty setting applied then it would mean that solo players who are capable can make more isk from harder missions and groups of players can have a worthy & profitable mission experiance.

4) Allow missions to be processed outside of stations

New eden is a place where time and space has been modified by science, people live forever and can download a lifetime of information across infiniate distance of space a split second before death but if I want to speak to someone I have to dock and talk to them face to face!?

Has no one is new eden invented a secure communication system? Hell I wouldn't even mind if I had to be in the same system but having to dock & undock to take on a mission is a little wasteful and the only perpose I can see it serving is giving pirates a chance to gank you when you undock.

Turbinate
Posted - 2011.02.23 11:06:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Turbinate on 23/02/2011 11:07:44
I am not sure if this is possible in the current mission system but please make it possible for missions to have more than the two outcomes possible at present: fail/success.

Having different rewards for different levels of mission completion could allow the mission designers to make the missions more varied within space eg
1. choices within the mission (hard path/easy path),
2. bonus objectives (extra reward for killing this ship before it warps away, saving some friendly industrials/killing them for their cargo but getting less agent mission reward)

This also allows for the possibility of the next mission in a chain being different if you did well/badly in the last one.


Julien Brellier
Posted - 2011.02.23 11:11:00 - [76]
 

Let missions trigger Escalations, like exploration sites do.
Gives bored, jaded mission runners something new to do and with the possibility of faction loot at the end.
Lots of mini-arcs instead of Epic Arcs.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.02.23 12:51:00 - [77]
 

Address the bottlenecking of tags required for LP store offers - for example, Gallente Colenel I and II tags are required in a ratio of around 2:3 in Caldari faction LP stores, but drop in a ratio of around 1:4, resulting in Colonel II tags selling at NPC price while Colonel I tags are 2m+ apiece.

Import some of the anti-empire-faction missions handed out by nullsec agents into the highsec agent mission pool. It's kind of silly that the only non-storyline highsec L4 against Gallente that is offered by Caldari agents is Enemies Abound.

Fix the LP store UI.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.03.02 23:04:00 - [78]
 

OK guys, lots of suggestions, but we have to focus on things that are both useful and easy to implement.

I've grabbed the ideas that struck my eye reviewing the thread, and listed them below.

What I'd like you to do is go through them and each pick 3-5 items that (a) you would like to see implemented and (b) you honestly think a single hard-working dev could get done in a single week of work. Just a list of item numbers, separated by commas; this will make it easier for me to total things up.

Thanks in advance...

  1. Being able to accept and turn in missions remotely(unless mission requires an item).

  2. Random amount of NPCs and random shipclass for NPCs (within certain limits).

  3. Dialogue boxes for some agents close up when I dock or undock

  4. Better journalling.

  5. Ability to choose to reject the anti-faction missions without using up the standard 4hr reject slot

  6. Cleaning up standings displays

  7. Clearer agent requirements display.

  8. Mark locator agents better.

  9. LP store remote view.

  10. Mission deadspace - bouncing and getting stuck on acceleration gates.

  11. Security agents are known to occasionally handout MINING missions.

  12. More interesting mission EW.

  13. Boost lvl4 agent effective quality (LP payout), gimp deadspace rat bounty.

  14. Scrapping the auto-handout and let the 16 missions accumulate like LP points ... if you have enough "Mission Points", you can approach any appropriate storyline agents for these special missions.

  15. Ability to buy multiple quantities of an item from LP Stores.

  16. Normalize tag cost for smaller items.

  17. Improve pirate LP stores.

  18. When talking to a locator agent, an extra screen appears before the mission offer that holds the option to locate someone.

  19. Revise loot tables.

  20. Better mining missions.

  21. Loot All option (smallest items first!).

  22. On secure containers, allow the configuration option to set the default lock/unlock state for all people using that container. Perhaps also sort items by lock status?

  23. Dynamic LP pricing.

  24. Nuke Materials for War from Orbit.



Liadan Khanum
Gallente
Dragon Armed Mercenary Escort Squadron
Posted - 2011.03.02 23:47:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Liadan Khanum on 02/03/2011 23:47:21
Oh 21! Please :)

Sure more random missions would be nice too, but loot all is so simple and I would be able to keep up with my Noctis loot and salvage speed.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.03 00:51:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
...


In a single week? For a dev or a content developer? How fancy is their content development tool? Can they update the DB and get it done or do they have to go through some sort of mission/LP store viewer? We have no way to know what this entails, or how much can really be done.

I ranked the ones that are really important as far as Bang For The Buck. I make no guarantees that these are balanced - especially with respect to R&D agents and L5/Low sec/pirate agents:
1. Being able to accept and turn in missions remotely
21. Loot All option (smallest items first!)
9. LP store remote view.
15. Ability to buy multiple quantities of an item from LP Stores.
17. Improve pirate LP stores.

These really need to happen but I simply don't buy that they are doable inside a single iteration for an entire content team:
13. Boost ALL agent effective quality (LP payout), gimp deadspace rat bounty.
19. Revise loot tables.

-Liang

Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.03.03 11:27:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Keras Authion on 04/03/2011 21:45:30
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
...



3,15,16,20,21

20 might need more than one programmer for a week though.

Also better lowsec missions would be nice. Missions requiring stealth or speed would be much more lucrative than taking your expensive space piñata out for a spin. The odds for survival if/when you are scanned or gatecamped are so unfavourable it's not funny, not to mention having to abandon the mission with a standing loss. But again this probably needs more than just one programmer.

Edit: Changed the list to the form asked now that someone below pointed it out Rolling Eyes

The Defector
Posted - 2011.03.03 11:44:00 - [82]
 

2. Random amount of NPCs and random shipclass for NPCs (within certain limits).
4. Better journalling.
7. Clearer agent requirements display.
12. More interesting mission EW.


The main one not there is we need random paths in missions, hell screw storyline missions. Every 16 missions a pocket to a special mission open similar to an escalation as this would be great fun even if the reward ends up only being an implant etc.

Allus Nova
Caldari
Posted - 2011.03.03 13:45:00 - [83]
 

give high sec mission runners the ability to use a wider range of ships, I want to fly a carrier without the headache of hot drop. Add L5 high sec missions.

Allus Nova

Xentara Vispari
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:33:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Xentara Vispari on 03/03/2011 15:37:45
Edited by: Xentara Vispari on 03/03/2011 15:36:03
1.) Add a "search box" to the LP shop window, like the ones for assets and other hangars. This helps to find items quickly in the LP shop if you know their name or if you have tags and like to know, which items you can buy for them.

2.) currently there is no real motivation for people to form groups and doing any PVE content (except incursions, some high rated plex,...), because you need to split any rewards. Other MMOs give you an extra reward if you do form a group. It would be nice, if EVE could provide similar things.

3.) the difficulty of missions could be varied according to the skills of the pilot. Currently with a decently skilled pilot nearly all missions are so easy, that it is hardly considered any fun. Perhaps this can be combined with 2.) to tweak mission difficulty (and reward) according the skills of the pilots in a fleet.

4.) add more goodies to missions - example: if you loot a special item (Kruuls DNA) and put it in certain container this could trigger a special wave of ships. So pilots can choose to do the "regular" mission or do a special for increased bounty/salvage.

5.) LP bonus for missions - if you meet certain criteria, you can receive a LP bonus for missions. Perhaps let the pilots decide if they want extra LP instead of ISK. Maybe connect it with 4.) - if you do the bonus part of a mission, you will get a LP bonus.




Darryl Ward
Posted - 2011.03.03 15:56:00 - [85]
 

I second the request to make it possible to turn in missions remotely. Also, the ability to request missions remotely would be good too. It would be nice if I didn't have to go back to station just to turn in and get a new mission.

Another suggestions would be to clean up the LP store. At the very least, categorize it like the market so I can know where blueprints, modules or implants are.

Mister Agreeable
Posted - 2011.03.03 17:51:00 - [86]
 

Make all agents dynamic.
So that level 1 q-18 agent would rise to l4q20 *if* your standings were good enough. Have them the option of giving you higher or lower level missions if you choose so. Boom no more 300 ppl in Motsu and Irjunen, the choice of good mission systems multiplies 100fold


Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.03.04 09:35:00 - [87]
 

I'd say (in no particular order) :

1
5
9
14
21

A note of crowdsourcing though, taking various bits and pieces from the general audience will highlight the various nagging things that boils to the surface from the player's perspective - at least those that he/she is passionate about. Imo, it however does not fix the fundamentals. There's danger in leaning too heavily towards the forum that you end up with a mish-mash & hodpe-podge fixes that's not coherent to the story.

A bit off topic : This is what happened to Elemental WoM (if you've been lurking and following the story on/off). Someone finally realized the major weaknesses, which atm they're desperately trying to fix ... only time will tell.

Yes, there are resource limitation for project work & iterations, but CCP should have had enough foresight to do a solid design from start rather than spend multiple times re-iterating the same thing ... this is the only thing they haven't learned to balance yet, at least from my perspective.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.03.04 19:18:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

What I'd like you to do is go through them and each pick 3-5 items that (a) you would like to see implemented and (b) you honestly think a single hard-working dev could get done in a single week of work. Just a list of item numbers, separated by commas; this will make it easier for me to total things up.



2,23,10


Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.03.04 20:10:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Camios
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

What I'd like you to do is go through them and each pick 3-5 items that (a) you would like to see implemented and (b) you honestly think a single hard-working dev could get done in a single week of work. Just a list of item numbers, separated by commas; this will make it easier for me to total things up.



2,23,10




The only person that's useful for is him. He might as well have asked us to evemail him the answers. I had to open his post up in another window and cross reference everyone's answer just to see what the **** people wanted. Rolling Eyes

-Liang

Sonjaa VII
Posted - 2011.03.04 21:53:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Sturmwolke

* Mission deadspace - bouncing and getting stuck on acceleration gates. Please fix this for the umpteenth time already.




I've gotten myself unstuck several times by spam-clicking my MWD. It will tell me that it cannot activate while warping, but still increase my speed a tiny bit. Half a minute of spamming the MWD and I get out unstuck out of warpgates. YMMV.

T.


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