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blankseplocked Gathering Mission tweak ideas for a CSM proposal
 
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Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.10 23:18:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 10/02/2011 23:19:52
Hi everyone,

Given that Team BFF is devoting the spring to making lots of small improvements to the game, it occurred to me that it might be a good idea to gather together some ideas for mission improvements (probably for the next development cycle, but you never know...)

What I'm looking for are small tweaks, either UI, processes, agents, or even game mechanics/NPC behavior, that would make the current missions more interesting and fun -- as opposed to changes to specific existing missions.

Clearly, making changes to large numbers of particular missions would be a huge amount of work, but what I am wondering is if there are some global changes that could be made that would achieve the desired results, but at the same time not significantly change mission difficulty (because that would require a lot of rebalancing).

In any case, I hope this post will result in an interesting discussion, and I'll run any good ideas that bubble to the top through the CSM process.

Rina Maas
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.10 23:33:00 - [2]
 

UI would be a huge "tweak"... not exactly a small one :)

They should just finish the existing specialised missions - namely COSMOS. They can add optional rewards and difficulty for those that wish it (both solo and group and in the hi and low sec COSMOS constellations). They could also work on more epic arcs for people to run.

Any other tweaks would be rather disruptive for newer players, or would cripple some older players who really are not as good as they think they are at l4s Rolling Eyes

Tarasina
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:42:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 11/02/2011 01:44:41
One BIG improvement would be:

Being able to accept and turn in missions remotely(unless mission requires an item).


1. Remove courier missions from combat-oriented agents.

2. Ramdom amount of NPCs and random shipclass for NPCs (within certain limits) would be another improvement.


Personal opinion: Changing NPC behavior just seems to make it more boring and tedious. For example if NPCs neut and tracking disrupt.



Doing the same mission for the hundredth time, when you know what ships there are, where they are and what they do ... boring.
What I would like to see in missions is the possibility to use smaller ships more (more efficiently). The whole inty/assault ship line is pretty obsolete in missions. I guess I'm asking for a new branch of missions, sort of like the pirate epic arcs. I've done them both and it was decent fun.

My goal from the start was to fly ONLY small ships but that is not feasible in PVE, no path or career past lv2s.

Tasko Pal
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.11 02:41:00 - [4]
 

For me, the biggest peeve is that the dialogue boxes for some agents close up when I dock or undock. For example, one of my alts runs several R&D agents. Each time I get courier missions, I leave the dialogue box open. Without fail, the moment I undock, the dialogue box resets, blanking out the useful mission information that was present. If I need it (say to set my destination), then I have to view the mission again to get back to where I was.

I frequently run several missions at a time. Some dialogues have the right behavior and some don't. I'm not sure since I haven't bothered to test it, but I think certain agent types (like R&D agents) have the bad behavior and others (like command agents) don't.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.02.11 04:24:00 - [5]
 

* COSMOS - journal history entries as you complete/fail/reject them. There is no way in hell right now to specifically know which ones you had/had not done. Finding out by talking to each agent is a major time waster.

* Epic Arc - they say you can do these every 3 months. Please indicate in the journal when it's reset. If automating the reset costs server work load, you can opt for on demand button/talk to agent or even a simple journal history log to show when the last mission was completed.

* L1 to L5 - again, journal history entries for these missions with details of level, agent, corp and mission name -> collated together into a single page. You can currently get those details, but it's convoluted and non-intuitive (you'd be surprised at how many people don't know about right-click -> Show Transactions). I would optionally suggest adding the time you took to complete the mission i.e. from Accepted -> Completed status into the details ... more as a tracking tool to help the more dedicated missioners. Very Happy

* Anti-faction missions (i.e. non-pirate factions) - there are two sides to the coin for this one. Those that don't mind ruining their factions standings for the juicy navy tags dropped .. and those that prefer not to ruin their faction standings. Since the current mission assignments are more or less random, this favours the former rather than the latter. I would ask the ability to choose to reject the anti-faction missions without using up the standard 4hr reject slot.

* Standings - looks like a convoluted & confusing mess. For example, open up, let's say the faction info and look at tabs Likes, Liked By, Disliked By, Relationship then ask a newbie or someone unfamiliar, do you really understand what these tabs each mean? Find a new way to display these information to be as clear and as intuitive as possible - remove anything redundant.

* Agents minimum requirement - If you DON'T qualify for the standing it is explicitly stated (e.g you need 6.7 standing) when you do a Show Info, however, I would suggest going further and bolding & colouring the text for better visibility. Conversely, if you DO qualify for the standing, it is not explicitly stated but instead you get a confusing wording "This agent provides missions to any pilot that meets standing requirements" .... which leads to many people scratching their heads and asking in confusion do I qualify or don't I qualify?

* Locator agents - Finding them involves using voodoo magic called eve-agents.com. It would be a lot nicer if there was a pip or something in the NPC corp agents list that denotes them as providing a locator service.

* Loyalty stores - whole page of LPs from different corps but no way to remote view what's available from each corp until you manually visit the respective corp's station. Add LP store remote view please.

* Mission deadspace - bouncing and getting stuck on acceleration gates. Please fix this for the umpteenth time already.

* Mission handout - security agents are known to occasionally handout MINING missions. Please knock them on their heads and make sure they won't be doing it again.

* Mission NPC - EW are hopelessly outdated. Though not much of an issue technically, it does tend to segregate missioning into its own world.

* Mission - group missioning. All L1-L4 missions can be easily completed solo. L5 missions were probably not originally meant for solo activity, but these are usually completed without effort by a single person dual-accounting. Incursion does offer group missioning, however, it's somewhat a notch up in difficulty and is also limited in availability as you have the whole of Eve going after the high-sec sites. You have room for a middle-ground category, say Level 4.5 or Level 4 Fleet or even Level 6 which are handed out by agents as per normal missions.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.11 04:26:00 - [6]
 

Boost lvl4 agent effective quality (LP payout), gimp deadspace rat bounty. Thus increasing LP store isk sink, decreasing rat bounty isk faucet.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.02.11 04:31:00 - [7]
 

... lol, second time today I ran out of the word limit.

Storyline missions - auto-handout after 16 missions. This is a general pain in the ass when you're after specific agents/corp. Not only you have to apply voodoo magic to select the appropriate ones, in cases where it doesn't quite match, you need to resort to manually counting your missions and do the last one at the appropriate location.

I would recommend scrapping the auto-handout and let the 16 missions accumulate like LP points ... if you have enough "Mission Points", you can approach any appropriate storyline agents for these special missions. Optionally, the better the agent or mission, you can charge a higher "Mission Points" to the player.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.11 05:15:00 - [8]
 

Give NPCs the ability to use acceleration gates so they can warp to the next pocket and make ambushes... IT'S A TRAP!

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.11 05:36:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Spineker on 11/02/2011 05:38:16
L5 high sec missions. Give the solo player more play and since Incursions are obviously fail at this point L5 is viable option.

If you don't like that than more L4 missions please. I have not seen a new one since release of the supposed new missions with incursions. Where in 0.0 Amarr?? Caldari Navy new? Where?

St Mio
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.02.11 05:55:00 - [10]
 

- Ability to buy multiple quantities of an item from LP Stores.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2011.02.11 06:00:00 - [11]
 

they had a bunch of big stickys asking people what they wanted in missions and well I haven't seen a damn thing come of any of them. ... ffs I just looked at the last one (still stickied here) and it is dated November 2009.

but anyways lp store adjustments, most of the stuff is fine, but some of the tag requirements for some of the small mods are just crazy.

I really wish the mission accept/cancel/locate button would stay in place instead of moving with the window.

and in smuggler interception, or was it unauthorized military presence (both shoot blood raiders and loot militants can never tell them apart), I wish they would move the gate back the random long travel to the gate really adds nothing to the mission Mad

there is no lp journal! sometimes at the end of the night I just wanna see how many lp I gained and how fast Mad

get rid of the damn new courier story lines, hell maybe just get rid of courier mission.

no mining missions from combat agent. ffs no I'm not going to go mine ice for you, I can't even use them things.

tag drops are messed up. running Enemies abound gives me 14 of the Federation Navy Fleet Colonel Insignia I tag (500k npc value) and 41 of the Federation Navy Fleet Colonel Insignia II tag (750k npc value) the lp store uses them in a different ratio, as a result the Federation Navy Fleet Colonel Insignia II tag goes for pretty much npc sell value, where the Federation Navy Fleet Colonel Insignia I tag was like 2 million last time I looked.

there aren't enough kill minmatar missions Evil or Very Mad

highsec agents should give highsec missions, lowesec agents should give lowsec missions.

I'm a bit unsure as to what should happen in terms of npc ai, I like to be able to log in and run a mission or two after school/work and not needing to deal with people. I really like having some solo content, even if it is repetitive as hell. adding npc ai wouldn't really add much for the solo player. some group missions designed for around 5 players would be nice though. incursions seem to do this on some level, but I don't like the all over the place and random nature part of them. I mean I stay in the same constellation for weeks or even months at a time (okay I think I leave once in a while because my storyline missions are in the neighboring one).

mats for war. I don't like the low standings gain Sad

there should be something in the journal that indicates that the objective is complete, I don't like having the journal and the mission window open all the time. and for courier missions I'd like a way to set destination in the journal, maybe just having the words Pickup and Dropoff in the journal hotlinked to the station?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.02.11 06:14:00 - [12]
 

Ok:
- The pirate LP stores are pathetic. Please finish them.
- Readjust LP stores so that small modules aren't so WTF expensive.
- Readjust faction/deadspace modules that are effectively useless.
- Normalize mission LP/reward/bonus in low sec to always seem as if you're in a 0.1.
- Add more L5 agents. Add pirate L5 agents after making sure the pirate LP stores are fixed. :)
- The ISK faucet that comes from mission bounties is too high, especially when compared to pirate/FW missions where all the ISK you get for running missions comes from market PVP. REMOVE mission bounties and increase tag drops (there's NPC buy orders for tags). This might have the pleasant knock-on effect of making the small module LP store adjustment unnecessary.
- It would be nice if the FW had missions like "Go capture a plex in system X" and "Prevent any plexes from being captured in system Y for the next 15 minutes". Keep the old missions as well and remove NPCs in the plexes. :)

-Liang

Arushia
Nova Labs
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2011.02.11 08:11:00 - [13]
 

"Materials For War Preparation" should either be changed to a proper mining mission or die in a fire.

I'd prefer die in a fire, honestly.

GyokZoli
Caldari
Sanctum of Citizens
Posted - 2011.02.11 08:54:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: GyokZoli on 11/02/2011 09:12:34
Originally by: Rina Maas
UI would be a huge "tweak"... not exactly a small one :)

They should just finish the existing specialised missions - namely COSMOS. They can add optional rewards and difficulty for those that wish it (both solo and group and in the hi and low sec COSMOS constellations). They could also work on more epic arcs for people to run.

Any other tweaks would be rather disruptive for newer players, or would cripple some older players who really are not as good as they think they are at l4s Rolling Eyes

Good idea!

I'd also add that it'd be cool to let every character run the COSMOS missions more than once, maybe once in a year or in 2 years. Well make it once in every 2 years.

I'd also note that probably nothing will ever happen with the existing COSMOS missions as long as they are only one time missions. At least if I was a CCP developer I wouldn't spend my time fixing a feature which affect just a small percent of players since most player don't care about COSMOS, and even the rest can only run them once.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.02.11 10:53:00 - [15]
 

Keep the ideas coming, folks. Remember, we're looking for smaller things that will make missioning easier/more fun. For example, Tasko Pal's suggestion is in that sweet-spot; it is a small change that smooths over a rough edge.

Originally by: Tasko Pal
For me, the biggest peeve is that the dialogue boxes for some agents close up when I dock or undock. For example, one of my alts runs several R&D agents. Each time I get courier missions, I leave the dialogue box open. Without fail, the moment I undock, the dialogue box resets, blanking out the useful mission information that was present. If I need it (say to set my destination), then I have to view the mission again to get back to where I was.

Lady Aja
Posted - 2011.02.11 11:03:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
there aren't enough kill minmatar missions Evil or Very Mad


I cant nearly say how much this is true.

one simple six is the option to do a anti faction version of the mission. let runners liek me and CSP do out antifaction missions if we choose to do so.

Tagana Shavar
Posted - 2011.02.11 11:11:00 - [17]
 

When talking to a locator agent, an extra screen appears before the mission offer that holds the option to locate someone. This makes it so more clicking is required when dealing with such an agent as compared to non-locator agents, making it feel more cumbersome.

In the old days agents had small snippets of text before the actual mission text appeared. They were related however. Since that initial screen was removed (which I'm perfectly fine with still), some mission texts start off rather odd, as the initial part of the "conversation" is missing. It would be nice if this would get cleaned up.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.11 11:59:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

several suggestions



While I agree with most of what you are saying, it will not work until all the faction and corp LP stores have equipment worth purchasing and the value of Lp is approximately equivalent between the different stores.

My suggestions:

- redo the LP stores inventory so that every faction and corp has worthwhile equipment to sell;

- revise agent distribution, quantity and quality so that:
* every faction/corp has approximately the same proportion of high quality combat agents;
* every faction/corp has access to good quality non combat agents in high sec;
* courier agent hubs in low sec disappear (currently they are used almost exclusively by macro and sweatshops workers, it seem);
* every corp (maybe barring Interbus) has at least 1 storyline agent, currently some of them lack them;
* there is a good spread (but not hubs) of agents in low sec;

- revise the loot tables. Before the nerf to large T1 modules some NPC group had bad bounties but a good value in loot drops thank to the mineral content, now they have low bounties and a low value in loot drops;

- when you add new mission please don't add 90% of them to level 1-3 and those for level 4 only to some obscure corporation;

- on the long run: upgrade NPC AI, NPC ships and adjust rewards to the new difficulty.




XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.11 12:03:00 - [19]
 

Make all missions in high sec anti faction.

Headlong
Katzbalger Industries
Posted - 2011.02.11 12:30:00 - [20]
 

1. fix lp store UI. If you have ever bought 100 items of the same kind you know what i'm talking about.

2. rebalance costs for lp store items. that applies especially to items that require tags to buy. I realize this might take a bit more effort but its needed.also rebalance the items coming from the stores (gallente lp store in general is pretty mediocre compared to other ones i feel)

3. rebalance tag drops. pretty much related to 2. - for example most level V missions against gallente only drop one of the two colonel tags. This basicly leads to a situation where you can buy the one kind of tags for npc prices whereas the other one is costing at least twice as much. It gets even worse with republic fleet tags for example (was mentioned by other people as well)

4. a small but pretty nice change would be if all missions give a short message in local (a few of them with special mission objectives like recon do that already).

5. you might at least want to look into the penalties you incur when doing anti faction missions. I understand that there have to be consequences in eve that can't be reversed quickly and that faction standing is one of them. But given the payout via tags is only slighty better (if you loot that is) than in anti pirate missions the balance doesn't seem to be right atm. Its also a bit strange that you can repair your sec standing pretty much in a couple of days ratting in a fast ship whereas fixing faction status will take weeks, even if you do it via storylines for smaller factions and work with derived standing. Again, this is prolly out of the scope of the request of the op.

6. I disagree on the proposal of moving all bounties to tags. I don't think the isk faucet of missions is really a problem, given most of the money is going right into the lp store again. However if you move it to tags you almost force people to loot/salvage. If you want to reduce the faucet, go for the money rewards and convert them to more lps. That way you can increase the isk sink that is the lp store without killing a certain way of playstyle.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.11 12:50:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Headlong
6. I disagree on the proposal of moving all bounties to tags. I don't think the isk faucet of missions is really a problem, given most of the money is going right into the lp store again.
Not the bounty money. The LP store eats up the ISK reward and time bonuses from the agent, but it's not costly enough to take care of the additional ISK that comes from the bounties.

Headlong
Katzbalger Industries
Posted - 2011.02.11 13:03:00 - [22]
 

I don't think the bounties are such a problem. The only group of missions where they have a larger impact are level 4s. Level 1-3s don't yield high rewards, given the scale we're talking about. L5s are already an isk sink cause about 60- 80 % of the rewards come from lps. This is also true for low sec l4s to a lesser extent.
Therefore if you want to reduce the isk faucet you have to reduce the bounties l4s yield in high sec. One idea could be to reduce the bounty payouts in systems with a higher sec level though again you would also hit the younger players running 1-3s (also you might want to consider if level 4s in high sec need another nerf or not - i personally don't think so). I do realise that l4s in highsec are by far the largest group of the missions completed but that shouldn't result in using a shotgun approach.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.02.11 13:21:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Headlong
I don't think the bounties are such a problem. The only group of missions where they have a larger impact are level 4s. Level 1-3s don't yield high rewards, given the scale we're talking about. L5s are already an isk sink cause about 60- 80 % of the rewards come from lps. This is also true for low sec l4s to a lesser extent.
I'm not talking about individual missions or mission types I'm talking system-wide.

For the game as a whole, across all types of missions/levels/locations, with all the various reward types combined, the ISK the LP stores siphon away almost exactly matches the ISK injected by the agents to reward people. As a result, pretty much any kind of bounty reward from any kind of mission is a net faucet.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.02.11 14:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

- The ISK faucet that comes from mission bounties is too high, especially when compared to pirate/FW missions where all the ISK you get for running missions comes from market PVP. REMOVE mission bounties and increase tag drops (there's NPC buy orders for tags). This might have the pleasant knock-on effect of making the small module LP store adjustment unnecessary.



That's a sort of a blanket statement that will draw fire and which I'm almost certain will degenerate into a shouting match. You did that on purpose. Laughing

To look at it another way, it's the same sort of blanket statement, to say NPC bounties from havens/sanctums/ratting are too high. REMOVE these NPC bounties, they should drop more valuable loot/pirate tags instead. I wonder what kind of replies I'll be getting. Wink

Lady Aja
Posted - 2011.02.11 14:13:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Make all missions in high sec anti faction.


oh my!

mah hero!!! <3

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.11 16:05:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Make all missions in high sec anti faction.


oh my!

mah hero!!! <3


Bad idea. Even now, most tag types are already at npc buy order level. Each faction rat drops multiple tags exceeding in npc buy order value compared to bounty of pirate rat counterpart. All missions being antifaction will result in all tags bumped down to npc buy order level, resulting in massive isk faucet.

Lady Aja
Posted - 2011.02.11 18:43:00 - [27]
 

how do you come up with this stupid idea about a isk faucet?

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Make all missions in high sec anti faction.


oh my!

mah hero!!! <3


Bad idea. Even now, most tag types are already at npc buy order level. Each faction rat drops multiple tags exceeding in npc buy order value compared to bounty of pirate rat counterpart. All missions being antifaction will result in all tags bumped down to npc buy order level, resulting in massive isk faucet.


XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.11 19:20:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Make all missions in high sec anti faction.


oh my!

mah hero!!! <3


Bad idea. Even now, most tag types are already at npc buy order level. Each faction rat drops multiple tags exceeding in npc buy order value compared to bounty of pirate rat counterpart. All missions being antifaction will result in all tags bumped down to npc buy order level, resulting in massive isk faucet.


Seeing as they would completely replace bounties in high sec

I'm okay with this. Anti faction would make people have to balance standings more and maybe limit travel for a lot more people.

While you're at it, add low sec borders between regions.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.02.11 19:57:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/02/2011 20:02:47
Originally by: Sturmwolke

That's a sort of a blanket statement that will draw fire and which I'm almost certain will degenerate into a shouting match. You did that on purpose. Laughing

To look at it another way, it's the same sort of blanket statement, to say NPC bounties from havens/sanctums/ratting are too high. REMOVE these NPC bounties, they should drop more valuable loot/pirate tags instead. I wonder what kind of replies I'll be getting. Wink


Yes... yes I did. Laughing

-Liang

Ed: I really do think it's a good idea. Consider:
- The amount of ISK in the economy is growing rapidly - to the point that CCP (through EyoG) says the economy is beginning to be in poor health.
- Even assuming parity between bounty and tag drops at NPC buy orders, we'll see a net reduction in "bountys" as it becomes mandatory to loot for your bounties. Furthermore, more ISK will be removed from the game through taxes.
- It creates and buffs player tag markets.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.02.11 20:15:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/02/2011 20:02:47
Originally by: Sturmwolke

That's a sort of a blanket statement that will draw fire and which I'm almost certain will degenerate into a shouting match. You did that on purpose. Laughing

To look at it another way, it's the same sort of blanket statement, to say NPC bounties from havens/sanctums/ratting are too high. REMOVE these NPC bounties, they should drop more valuable loot/pirate tags instead. I wonder what kind of replies I'll be getting. Wink


Yes... yes I did. Laughing

-Liang

Ed: I really do think it's a good idea. Consider:
- The amount of ISK in the economy is growing rapidly - to the point that CCP (through EyoG) says the economy is beginning to be in poor health.
- Even assuming parity between bounty and tag drops at NPC buy orders, we'll see a net reduction in "bountys" as it becomes mandatory to loot for your bounties. Furthermore, more ISK will be removed from the game through taxes.
- It creates and buffs player tag markets.


Two birds, one stone: all highsec mission rats now drop nothing but tech.


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