open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal] Fixing clones - medical and jump
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.02.10 14:36:00 - [1]
 

The Problem
Arrow Jump clone timers are indiscriminately 24 hours, regardless on how far they have jumped you. Most players jump in and out of implanted sets more than for distance, leaving them with 24 hours where they will have a strong desire not to enter nullsec, or for some not to even engage in PvP.
Arrow Medical clones are expensive when you start accumulating SP. There is no direct correlation between personal wealth and skill point total. There are rich new players and poor old players. At some point, it becomes foolish for high SP characters to use ships that are prone to dying - destroyers in comedy gangs, tackling frigates, interdictors and heavy interdictors.


The Solutions
Arrow Base jump clone timer on LY distance from origin and destination, +2 hours every LY. Minimum timer being 2 hours, maximum being the current 24 hour. This allows for people to swap in and out of highly implanted sets into empty or cheaply implanted easily that are in the same station.
Arrow Remove medical clone cost and the need to upgrade them. The possibility to kill someones skillpoints is funny, but seldom happens. In reality its just an extra cost that discourages high SP players from using riskier ships or situations. Implants are the discouragement for podding, as implants can run 100mil for a normal set to billions for pirate sets.


XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.10 15:07:00 - [2]
 

Medical clones are a good isk sink. They should stay.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2011.02.10 15:40:00 - [3]
 

Jump clones are not meant for risk aversion. They are fine as they are.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2011.02.10 16:27:00 - [4]
 

I stongly agree with the OP> THe entire idea of 24 hours time is to stop people jumping around the univerce, where one would have jumplones all over the place and would simply jump into one closes to where he wants to go. There 24 hour times is reasonable. However if one switches a close on the same station just to go to pvp, there is no reason to penalize them with a 24 hour timer.

I agree wiht the second point even more, i have a number of mates for whom costs of the close exceed 20 million, which is higher then the price of most t2 frigates. This makes flying this ship silly for them. In my opinion age of a character should not be forcing a centrain placetyle.

And you don't die nearly enough to make this a viable isk sink. IN entire lifetime of this character, i have spent more on ship repairs then on clone replacements. ANd a few hundred time more isk where spent in lp store on implants.

Fullest support.

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:17:00 - [5]
 

Sounds ok. And if not make the JC timer 23 hours not 24.

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:21:00 - [6]
 


TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:30:00 - [7]
 

Supporting my own proposal.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:33:00 - [8]
 

Arbitrary jump clone timers are a relic.

Tsubutai
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.02.10 17:59:00 - [9]
 

Good ideas.

Inora Aknaria
No.Mercy
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:47:00 - [10]
 

This is awesome. Just yesterday I couldn't fly my slicer bc I had jumped into a different clone set (w/o cpu implants).

Frig combat in t1 frigs is kinda silly since my pod implantless is often more then the fit on the ship.

Sabeth Lorn
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:48:00 - [11]
 

Supporting this

Mematot Teely
Posted - 2011.02.10 19:48:00 - [12]
 

Awesome idea

Zephris
Posted - 2011.02.10 20:16:00 - [13]
 

People would be even less inclined to pvp without medical clones.
So no.
- Z

SAI Peregrinus
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Supremacy.
Posted - 2011.02.10 20:27:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zephris
People would be even less inclined to pvp without medical clones.
So no.
- Z


He's not saying no med clones, he's saying no increase in cost for higher SP med clones. There would be one medical clone, if you have it you don't lose SP on death. If you don't have a medclone, you do.

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.10 20:35:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
Arrow Remove medical clone cost and the need to upgrade them. The possibility to kill someones skillpoints is funny, but seldom happens. In reality its just an extra cost that discourages high SP players from using riskier ships or situations. Implants are the discouragement for podding, as implants can run 100mil for a normal set to billions for pirate sets.

No, the need to do this gives stations with cloning a strategic advantage. Basing out of a station with it means you can jump straight into a new ship and go rejoin the fight, while if you don't, bubbling up your hostiles main cloning station/the route from it to their staging can help prevent them from bringing new reinforcements.
I don't really care about the cost, but the need to update them should stay.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.02.10 21:11:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Jump clones are not meant for risk aversion. They are fine as they are.


True they were meant to be used for moving long distances. In reality, people use them for specific implant sets. I have a slave, nomad, jackal and +3 normal set. I swap between them for different ships and situations. If I am in a nomad or slave set, I do not enter nullsec.

Originally by: Zephris
People would be even less inclined to pvp without medical clones.
So no.
- Z


You will wake up in a station, same as normal. No SP loss. No cost to get another clone. Basically that free 800k SP clone will now hold 800 million SP.

No implants = no reason to avoid being podded unless you care dearly for killboard stats.

Originally by: steave435
No, the need to do this gives stations with cloning a strategic advantage. Basing out of a station with it means you can jump straight into a new ship and go rejoin the fight, while if you don't, bubbling up your hostiles main cloning station/the route from it to their staging can help prevent them from bringing new reinforcements.
I don't really care about the cost, but the need to update them should stay.


Maybe killed the medical bay should make people wake up in another station, one that has an active medical bay. Rather than having a fleet of people wake up in a station where they can choose to lose SP or lose a system.

Anyway, aren't you arguing that you want less fights and less resistance? As long as they have assets to dedicate to the battle, surely they should be allowed to fight if they want.

SilentWinter
Gallente
Los Chupacabras
Posted - 2011.02.10 21:19:00 - [17]
 

+1 Supporting

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2011.02.10 22:38:00 - [18]
 

Jumpclones: good idea, 100% support. Make it 3 hours / LY even.

Medclones: no, its a good thing podding hurts high SP characters more regardless of implants.

Frank Shitlitz
Posted - 2011.02.10 22:45:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Medclones: no, its a good thing podding hurts high SP characters more regardless of implants.


Just curious: Why is it a good thing that high SP characters should have higher costs?

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2011.02.11 01:27:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Frank ****litz

Just curious: Why is it a good thing that high SP characters should have higher costs?


More options as far as ships go, higher efficiency with ships and weapons, bigger price to pay if you die. Its reasonable the way it is.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.02.11 08:33:00 - [21]
 

Support for jump clone change, although I would prefer local switching to have a much shorter timer. Something where I can log on, switch to a combat clone, go look for a fight and get killed and then return to my initial clone. The shorter the local switch cooldown is the better.

I could live with your medical clone change and I can see why to do it, but I'm not really for it. No one really loses SP, so the only real consequense is the cost. My only problem with the current system is how it scales. My income earning has been pretty stable after the first year, but my clone costs keep scaling indefinitely. This is BS and I would be happy if it stopped after a certain point and if that point would keep flying in cheap frigate or lol gangs feasible.

Either way even the unaltered proposal in the OP is preferable to the current situation.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.02.11 09:06:00 - [22]
 

I think the poor old people are the exception and not the rule so wouldn't use that as an argument. ISK and assets accumulate over time, especially assets.

Jumpclone: Sounds good with one addition, a maximum of two jumps within a 24hr period.
- Pew and still have time to jump to ratting clone and back to pew as nauseum. Null would be the ultimate carebear land (is bad now, but always room for "improvement" Smile).
Medicals: It is annoying to have to pay for a fitted BC if I lose a frigate. But since most people jump out of implant clones when going for pew, the cost of implants cannot be used as argument.
Keep costs (a little lower than they are). Refund/rebate cost if lost clone had implants: Ten slots so a nice even 10% per slot.
- Means you have to stock up on +1's for the suicide trips to get a -50% to clone upgrade. With reduced base cost it should be manageable even for the old "paupers".

Venorati
Posted - 2011.02.11 09:35:00 - [23]
 

Agreed with cooldown reduction, don't care about clone cost.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2011.02.11 14:59:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Frank ****litz

Just curious: Why is it a good thing that high SP characters should have higher costs?


More options as far as ships go, higher efficiency with ships and weapons, bigger price to pay if you die. Its reasonable the way it is.

It's not reasonable the way it is. How does making pvp more expencive add t variety? Shocked
Quote:
- Means you have to stock up on +1's for the suicide trips to get a -50% to clone upgrade. With reduced base cost it should be manageable even for the old "paupers".

WHat???? WHY?

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2011.02.12 04:36:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 12/02/2011 04:38:45
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev

It's not reasonable the way it is. How does making pvp more expencive add t variety? Shocked


You can have one races subcaps completely maxed out, and your clone is still cheaper than a fully fit frigate.

Also, what stops you from skilling up multiple characters on the same account for different races instead of cross-training everything on one character?

You know, for the sake of variety. It also saves you money on clones Laughing


Seriously, make clone contracts like insurance contracts, have them expire after 6 weeks.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2011.02.12 10:25:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
Also, what stops you from skilling up multiple characters on the same account for different races instead of cross-training everything on one character? You know, for the sake of variety. It also saves you money on clones

I would not like to be inconvenienced in this way. And no, my clone already costs 2 mil, that more than a frigates,i am not cross-trained and i can't even fly half gallente t2 ships. THeirfore your point is invalid.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.02.12 10:42:00 - [27]
 

How about 2 jumps every 48 hours? it'd let you hop into and out of a clone briefly, but you'd still be stuck with one/24 hours ammortized

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2011.02.12 14:52:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 12/02/2011 14:55:19
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev

I would not like to be inconvenienced in this way. And no, my clone already costs 2 mil, that more than a frigates,i am not cross-trained and i can't even fly half gallente t2 ships. THeirfore your point is invalid.


After fittings I'm sure your frigates cost more than 2mill unless they are all t1 fit. A high-end t1 frigate can easily run you like 7-8mill fully fit, let alone a t2 frigate.

And how often do you lose clones anyways? In highsec or lowsec thats maybe once a year at most. Even my cheap nullsec clones have a couple of hardwirings that are about 40mill in total...

In the end it is just that, you want a character with good skills then the clone costs more, just the same as if you want the 5% hardwirings instead of the 3% ones.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.02.12 15:07:00 - [29]
 

If your want your clone not to cost to much , stop training.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.12 15:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Aamrr
How about 2 jumps every 48 hours? it'd let you hop into and out of a clone briefly, but you'd still be stuck with one/24 hours ammortized


Make a proposal, and I'll support it. :)


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only