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Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.02.04 14:54:00 - [1]
 

Hey all,

As been mentioned in a lot of threads over the past few months, our expansions "at no additional costs" can't always compare positively with expansions in other games. I agree with those with this opinion (perhaps you don't), I'd rather had PI with all the options and tweaking ready and FW fix 7 months ago and Incarna with tattoos and more hairstyles with WiS and bars now.

Of course, all things come at a price. My question thus is: would you want to pay an additional $50 a year for expansions ($25 each) if content and bugfixing would be done faster, more extensive, more balanced and polished, more "excellent" as they are now?

Thanks for reading.

Golanik
Posted - 2011.02.04 14:58:00 - [2]
 

The only real price I pay for new content (in addition to the regular monthly cost) is a little bit of patience. That's a lot more affordable than an extra $50 per year.

sarah mcjimmy
Posted - 2011.02.04 14:58:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: sarah mcjimmy on 04/02/2011 14:58:23
I'd be happy with 1 expansion of new content and 1 expansion catered to fixing bugs and exploits per year.

What would happen to those who didn't pay the extra for the expansions? Would they not be allowed to play?

Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:00:00 - [4]
 

Hell no. Never. Ever. No.

The reason the content is lite from CCP is because they are not investing the man hours or the key talent required to make 'awesome' expansions for Eve. Pure and simple.

The business reasons for that have nothing to do with how much we pay or don't pay them for said expansions.

Also comparing 'other' games with Eve is absurdly stupid.


TriadSte
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:00:00 - [5]
 

Face facts, If patchs were "paid" for that would force CCP to release patchs that work properly. So im actually all for that.

I respect and like that they're free right now, but the patching for patchs for patchs for patchs really does annoy.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:02:00 - [6]
 

I don't think they can really do it.

Most expansions lately are bug fixes and broad changes that cannot be applied to one person but not another. Thus actual new expansion content will be limited. Pay $25 to warp to incursion sites with your account? **** that. Pay $25 to use wormholes? Most people would pull out, leaving wormholes to be a goldmine for those left as pirates aren't going to pay $25 just to grief them. $25 for the trinity graphics? A bit lame, but could have been done.

Short answer, no paying for expansions is lame when alot of us pay for 2-3 accounts.

Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:03:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
Face facts, If patchs were "paid" for that would force CCP to release patchs that work properly.


Interesting logic. Shocked


RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:06:00 - [8]
 

I'd be happy with more patches Wink

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:06:00 - [9]
 

Nope. CCP would have to step it up a great deal before I would even consider that. We already pay 180 bucks a year to play this...and thats with one account only, a distinct disadvantage in EvE. Most folks are probably shelling out the equivalent of 360 bucks a year.

Gaellia Bonaventure
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:08:00 - [10]
 

No.

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cathy Drall
Of course, all things come at a price. My question thus is: would you want to pay an additional $50 a year for expansions ($25 each) if content and bugfixing would be done faster, more extensive, more balanced and polished, more "excellent" as they are now?

Thanks for reading.


The cost for expansions is already paid for. It is extremely unlikely they can charge directly for expansions and reduce the monthly subscription accordingly.

The reason I believe it is unlikely is because CCP cannot separate expansion payers from non-expansion payers discreetly.

If a new player has not paid for Red Moon Rising, how do you stop him flying carriers?
If they have only paid for Tyrannis, how do you stop them using improved(tm) Planetary Interaction?
And so on, the list here would be fascinatingly long.

Other products it is very much easier. For instance in Guild Wars, if you don't buy Factions, you don't get to go to Cantha, ever. You don't get to role Assassins or Dervishes, and you don't get access to that campaigns skills or rewards. It's quite easy to separate the payers from the non-payers.

In Eve, there are no defined geographical relationships in Expansions, so the difficulty to separate becomes very difficult very quickly.

So the whole process is split sideways into the SP system, and you don't get to play enough sideways slices of expansions until you have given CCP a required amount of money.

It's a neat way of attracting new customers, because you don't have to charge them extortionate amounts of money the day they arrive, you simply tell them they have access to all of Eve, just like everybody in Eve's single universe, hit them up with that lie enough and they start to believe it. Until they realise that they don't get to play a lot of content until the required tariff has been paid.

So your question is mostly irrelevant as it likely could not be done anyway. Perhaps you should say "Would you be willing to pay more each month on the promise that will give you better expansions later?" or "Do you trust Hilmar to pump money into the things you like instead of things he thinks will make him richer?"

And my answer would be "Yes. I absolutely would be prepared to pay more for better."

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:33:00 - [12]
 

EVE already has the content. Other games you get to a point where you are level 80 whatever and have nothing to do so expansions are needed to keep that player in the game.

Hoya en Marland
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:38:00 - [13]
 

Gladly, but only if the access to the servers is free.

Shaalira D'arc
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: TriadSte
Face facts, If patchs were "paid" for that would force CCP to release patchs that work properly. So im actually all for that.


Based on player experiences with paid-for WoW patches and expansions, the 'facts' actually point in the opposite direction.

I Love Boobies
Amarr
All Hail Boobies
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:51:00 - [15]
 

Eve is pretty unique in the fact it's one universe, one server. If they started charging for expansions, they would most likely have to set up other servers because not everyone would get the expansions, and that in itself would make it so Eve wouldn't be Eve any more in my opinion. As someone else said... patience. It really is a virtue. Twisted Evil

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.02.04 15:53:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Shaalira D'arc
Originally by: TriadSte
Face facts, If patchs were "paid" for that would force CCP to release patchs that work properly. So im actually all for that.


Based on player experiences with paid-for WoW patches and expansions, the 'facts' actually point in the opposite direction.


Not to mention that paid expansions form a barrier for new players to start playing. By including all it all in the subscription cost, you can allow people just download the client and start playing without any other fuss or hassle. You pay just to get access to the server and the expansions are there to keep and attract subscribers.

Ivana Drake
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:01:00 - [17]
 

I probably wouldn't bother if we had to pay for expansions, I like being able to pay Ģ10 every now and then to log in, train some skills, spin ships and chat for a bit but probably wouldn't do that if I had to pay Ģ30 for some expansion I don't care about Sad

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:02:00 - [18]
 

It's not even an option.

Free patches isn't just a perk for the players, it allows CCP not to worry about having to support different clients. Which means a lot less resources spend on working on things we would never see as content anyway. We're not talking pennies here. Changing this would turn EVE development upside down, and EVE content would change a lot.

It's also a business model for CCP. Churn and retention are much much easier to work with when you don't have X+ past expansions to factor in. After some time CCP would have to bundle X+ expansions into Y offer ( like all other MMO publishers ), since no new players would ever join up if they had to put down 200 bucks for the last 5 expansions to experience the game.

Also, have a look at the content in EVE. It's not a treadmill were you burn through the new 10 levels. Very rarely are new items actually introduced. More often it is changes to existing mechanics. Let's assume Dominion had been an expansion, how would players with and without the expansion in 0.0 actually play together?

And if you think that payed expansions are any less buggy than the free ones from CCP, you haven't played many other MMOs I assume.

If you want perfection, prepare to pay for perfection. I don't know any company that's managed to get customers to pay for perfection. It's just not a viable business model.

Sylphs
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:03:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Sylphs on 04/02/2011 16:14:15
Edited by: Sylphs on 04/02/2011 16:13:55
Fascinating how some people are willing to pay for a service they already have for free.
Needless too say that a bug free payed expac is nothing more than a dream, see all those software corporations that charge at release and still release tons of patches and hotfixes afterward.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:16:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 04/02/2011 16:16:09


Hate to say it, but even if CCP did put out formal, payment required, expansion packs, I doubt that CCP can/would be able to hire/manage the necessary software infrastructure to put out a high enough quality expansion pack that would be worth charging for.



Originally by: Gavjack Bunk


If a new player has not paid for Red Moon Rising, how do you stop him flying carriers?
If they have only paid for Tyrannis, how do you stop them using improved(tm) Planetary Interaction?


If CCP can have skills that cannot be trained on trial accounts, then they have the means to limit what expansion specific skills you can train.


Derus Grobb
Minmatar
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:19:00 - [21]
 

no

Venta Vendita
Gallente
North American Euro Space Agency
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:20:00 - [22]
 

No way. 2 expansions a year is in the sub cost. If there was not a sub cost, I wouldn't mind paying for expansions. But EVE is different, it's based on a whole universe and a player base as a whole. Making people pay will only separate that player base up and thin it out even more. Have events that only half your corp bought. The fact we pay subscription costs should be enough reason for them the push themselves to release bug free content but its a digital world...bugs come and go. Imagine gameplay on Trinity if they didn't test on a public beta server. As long as they release patches to fix major bugs within a reasonable amount of time.

I wouldn't pay for "done faster, more extensive, more balanced and polished, more "excellent" as they are now?". If your not happy with EVE unsubscribe. Like they said, patience is a virtue.

Twisted Mister
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:23:00 - [23]
 

The expansions have never been free.

Terazul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:24:00 - [24]
 

Comparing other "expansions" of MMOs to EVE's (which is utterly silly in and of itself), you should realize very quickly that there is very little to compare.

Expansions of other MMOs typically include most or all of the following:
-Raised level cap
-New skills/abilities to coincide with the level cap
-New races
-New zones that recycle content with different context
-Copy-paste of previous gameplay with little-to-no innovation
-Some new items to keep the busybody gear *****s happy


Meanwhile, EVE expansions are pretty much nothing like that. Where typical MMO expansions are VERTICAL (i.e. extending already existing gameplay), EVE expansions are HORIZONTAL (i.e. expanding gameplay in new directions). For example, CCP has given us
-Wormholes, which have no real equivalent in any other MMO on the market
-Planetary Interaction (yes, it's not feature-complete, but it is functional as an extension of industry)
-Factional Warfare (again, it's got problems, I know)
-Incursions
-Constant revision and iteration of core game mechanics and game balance
-New character creation
-In the future, a whole game within the game in the form of Incarna

What other game provides expansions that create wholly new gameplay? I am curious as to whether or not anyone can actually make such a claim with a straight face. Rolling Eyes

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:24:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 04/02/2011 16:29:57
Originally by: Pohbis
It's not even an option.

...

This (and the rest of this great post & others above).

Expansions(paid or unpaid) arenīt the problem. Itīs CCP current business model and their OVERALL expansion policy of diverting their resources into 3 different games simultaneously:
Space-EVE, World of Darkness franchise(Incarna beta-test), Dust (console FPS MMOShocked).

I know the plan is to eventually let all three converge into one (griefer Wink )happy EVE-Universe. But with the time things take in the game industry in general and specifically at CCP, well..


So yeah. big fat NO.

Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:29:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Twisted Mister
The expansions have never been free.

I said "at no additional cost" Wink

The things is, I came to expect a lot more from expansions thaj I've seen in EVE. True, they do two a year but the influence on your gameplay is often rather small. Like Incursion: if you're not into incursions (automated "live events"), all you do is make a new portrait and you get some small interface updates which actually are small patches.

Perhaps it's just me but it often feels a little mediocre. If I could speed up EVE's development and fixes by paying more money a year I'd gladly do it.

Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:35:00 - [27]
 

In a game like EVE where everything depends on everything it doesn't make sense to add expansions with stuff that isn't available to everyone.

If you try to force ppl to pay an expansion fee, it'll make ppl stop playing, which means less income in the long term.

Ische Qou
Amarr
Ische Shipbuilding Corporation
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:43:00 - [28]
 

No but I'd like an expansion where I can get Pizza and beer for PLEX...

I do think the current business models are nice enough and I don't like to spend more money for it

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:46:00 - [29]
 

MMO is not a product. it's a service. we are already paying for expansions.

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.02.04 16:47:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Archbeholder on 04/02/2011 16:50:55

unfcking believeable
everyone claims to be a genius on these forums yet so few realize how easily it is to separate people with purchased expansions and w/o

Originally by: Scorpyn
In a game like EVE where everything depends on everything it doesn't make sense to add expansions with stuff that isn't available to everyone.

If you try to force ppl to pay an expansion fee, it'll make ppl stop playing, which means less income in the long term.

ino rite? wow released cataclysm and suddenly all those 12kk players are all gone

Originally by: Jagga Spikes
MMO is not a product. it's a service. we are already paying for expansions.

You are paying for service(maintenance). Expansions cost extra. Thats why you dont get any expansions.


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