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Posted - 2011.02.04 05:12:00 - [1]

Edited by: Wolodymyr on 04/02/2011 05:24:02
OK so I am sure at one time or another we have all shown our friends the Dominion trailer to try and impress them with Eve. The idea of hundreds of players getting together to have a massive battle sounds really exciting until you get into what blob warfare is really like. So here is a question; what is it that makes blob warfare bad?

I'd bet it's because of the whole "calling primary" focus fire thing. It makes a lot of sense that if you want to drop someone fast you have everyone fire on one target. And if you get in a fight the fleet that calls primaries will beat the fleet that doesn't every time. But it starts to mean that you as an individual matter less and less. It doesn't matter how much DPS you do if a hundred people are all firing at the same ship. It doesn't matter how good your tank is because if you get noticed you'll pop. It's kind of like playing elementary school dodge ball except with lasers.

Try to imagine a fleet fight without everybody shooting the biggest thing on grid, then the second biggest, then the third, etc. Imagine if a fleet fight was actually a series of simultaneous smaller engagements, more like what we saw in the dominion trailer, or really any other sci-fi out there.

Make the four damage types faction specific. Each race does primarily one damage type, and is vulnerable to the damage type of their lore specific enemy.

OK so for example lets say that since Amarr shoot lasers they would primarily do thermal damage. Then Minmatar use guns which could be primarily kinetic. Then since Amarr and Minmitar hate each other according to the Eve lore, Amarr armor could be vulnerable to primarily kinetic (instead of explosive that it is now). And Minmitar shields could be vulnerable to thermal (rather than EM). Then Caldari missiles would do explosive damage. And EM is all that's left so I guess Gellente hybrids do EM now. Then Caldari are weak vs EM, and Gellente are weak to explosive (so their resists wouldn't really need to change at all).

OK so now imagine that you get in a big blob fight with two mixed race fleets. And while calling primary would still technically work. It wouldn't be as economical as everyone picking targets based on what their weapons work best against. In theory a really coordinated fleet could have 4 FCs each calling 4 sets of primaries for each race but honestly I don't think most people could keep up with that.

The really interesting thing is what this would do to solo fights. Since the faction damage vulnerabilities mirror each other, rather than a paper scissors rock set up, every solo fight would be fair. Lets say someone in a Drake is flying solo in lowsec or something. He runs into a Hurricane and they go at it. Since they both tank each other's damage fairly well they'd have a fair (if slow) fight. Then lets say the Drake runs into a Brutix. They are now more vulnerable to each other's damage, and the fight will be fair, but now it's going to be over very fast.

Also lets say you are in a gate camp or something and an Amarr battleship shows up. All of the Minmitar campers are going to get a bit more worried than everyone else because they know that (If the Amarr BS pilot is smart) they'll get shot at first.

This would make people care about who their faction hates because if you run into your faction's rival in space then the fight is going to be over faster and therefore a bit more dangerous.

So what are your thoughts? Blob warfare, good, bad, why?

That One Guy
Posted - 2011.02.04 05:16:00 - [2]

Edited by: That One Guy on 04/02/2011 05:16:00

Mina Hiragi
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.02.04 13:37:00 - [3]

Fiddling with damage types would do nothing for fleet/blob warfare. In EVE, a wounded opponent still produces full or near-full damage output. Thus, if your damage type-focused fleet wounds half of an enemy fleet, while said enemy fleet annihilates a quarter of your fleet - you're losing. Your damage output is dropping far faster than theirs. Even if this weren't the case, alpha will still be king. First, it's far easier to call primaries rather than let individual pilots - who often won't know WTF they're doing - have a go at shooting whatever they wish. Second, damage types are inconsequential for many priority targets. Nobody cares about the resists on Random ECM Boat, they care that Random ECM Boat is being melted within three seconds of the engagement.

Yes, yes, being part of a fleet means being a mere cog in a great machine. That's kind of the point. There's a reason FCs are titled FCs - they command. You obey. (Or not, but if that's the case, enjoy the failboat.)

As for solo combat, it'd change little. Ship attributes, pilot skill (which has nothing to do with game mechanics), modules and setting all have far more to do with victory or defeat than damage types.

...Now, all that said, I'm still kind of annoyed that glorious Amarrian lasers are so freakin' predictable to tank against, compared to certain factions what with their three or even four damage types, pah! Razz

Lets Blue Everything
Posted - 2011.02.04 14:51:00 - [4]

I think people need to actually stick with one meaning of blob and I dont think the problem is blobbing, people get baited all the time then hotdropped and dont complain so why should people complain in 0.0?

I believe what people have an issue with is number warfare, but can you really blame alliance and coalitions from playing the NAP game

With the exception of roams every other type of pvp combat in 0.0 is slow, when things are slow it allows people to form numbers, because of how slow things are people have the chance to plan well in advance numbers that will last 5 mins in combat.

Timers are so stupid, I mean look at 0.0 today, IT are dead yet are still on the map because enemies will have to spend several weeks ****ing on timers, why the hell would CCP think this was fun?

Then if we look at standing coalitions like NC or DRF, they will be inactive UNTIL something goes in reinforced, which is only when they will log in, where they can match any opposition with numbers.

In short timers are the source of all issues :D and because of these long annoying timers people put alot of effort into 'blobbing' the system.

CCP need to make sov warfare fast paced and do something about those ****ty timers, because right now 0.0 coalitions are mass producing supercaps and anchoring stations, in other words sov warfare = supercaps & timers warfare which is why people like me are so bitter in 0.0 and get more enjoyment cleaning the house than invading something.

Seriously though, how do the CSM feel about timers?

Wallstreet Panic
Posted - 2011.02.04 20:54:00 - [5]

To a single player, 4 players is a blob. to 3 players, 10 players is a blob. No one is going to play this game 'fair' if they can win by outnumbering an opponent. The game is complicated enough without some damage type scheme.


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